such fellowes or so lewd as to say that hee should be conuented or committed An other question is likewise demaunded Quest 22 whether ordinaries haue not contriued promulgated and published articles hee meaneth orders in their owne name without her Maiesties assent yet I doubt whether he wil stand to affirme so much He asketh whether Ecclesiasticall Iudges are not in the Praemunire Quest 27. 34. yet dare he not auouch it Like wise the distracted Abstractor doth frame many odious interrogatories which albeit he be as they say a mad felow yet he will not affirme neither I hope wil M. Cartwright make affirmations of them Hee asketh whether the Bishops haue not made vnle arned and criminous ministers and suffered them to continue all her Maiesties reigne And whether the Archbishop haue not dispensed contrary to Gods word and may exercise absolute authoritie and whether the Archbishop being an excommunicate and simoniacall person may resort to the Pope for absolution Yet I thinke the man hath more shame and modestie then to affirme any such matter Is it not then a matter very ridiculous that M. Cartwright will haue questions to be affirmations Beside that it is very dangerous to his faction that hath moued so many dangerous questions but to affirme that a question doth more strongly auow then an affirmation as doth M. Cartwr is most strange and absurd Neither doe I so reason against the petitioner as if euery word of his questions were by him auerred and affirmed but first because his questions are for the most part grounded vpon matters of Law of which euery one is to take notice Next for that he doth not onely make a question but also declare his owne opinion As for example one of his questions is this Quaere of Matth Quest 10 Sutcliffe c. why M. Cartwright may not sell the lands he had from his father and buy other with the money as well as some of the Bishops who by bribery simony extortion racking of rents wasting of woods and such like stratagemes waxe rich and purchase great Lordships for their posteritie Beside this in other places he hath fufficiently declared his meaning as for my case it is quite contrary I speake of matters of fact wherein I am ignorant and desire to be resolued and yet M. Cartwright will do me no fauour and disdeineth out of his high throne of the eldership to speake to me a poore Christian desirous to learne of his worship Well therefore doth hee to adde that sometime a question doth more strongly auow then an affirmation for it is some what to much to say that it doth so at all times and not true that it doth so at any time But were it true yet should he winne nothing but discredit to reason thus of particulars for although sometime M. Cartwright doth say wel yet he doth not so alwayes But suppose that indeed I had signified that M. Cart had purchased lands and bought leases more in value then 3. or 4. good lordships yet should it be no slander and that first because it is true and next because it is no dishonestie to purchase or prouide by honest courses for his wife and children The first appeareth by these particulers he confesseth that he hath bought the mannor of Saxemundeham the moity whereof is worth about 30. li. yeerely now hee knoweth there be diuers mannors that are not 5. li. rent Secondly he cannot deny but he with one Fludde had two leases of M. Morgan worth 200. markes as both M. Fludde and M. Morgan and others wil iustifie He had also his brothers lands tied for his annuitie which since that he hath sold as is said for a great summe Let him therefore tell vs what he hath done with his money and al that he hath gotten since for either must it be employed in lands or leases or some trade or els at vse but this he denseth and I thinke he vseth no trade and therfore that remaineth Beside that M. Cartwright hath large contributions and gifts and cannot chuse but win well by his Hospitall What is then become of all he hath gotten Hath he spent it in almes he is none of those that meaneth to merit by almes deeds Hath he spent it in hospitalitie nay he cōmonly feedeth at other mens trenchers Doth he spend it in seruants he keepeth few or none and that the rather to moue men to giue largely His apparell is not costly At London he spendeth nothing in Innes What then remaineth but that his money should goe to encrease his reuenues for I know none so vncharitable as to thinke that he hideth his talents in a napkin But saith he he hath gained litle by the Hospitall saue trauel and charge for the Hospitall oweth him fourtie markes as if it were not an easie matter to gaine well and by clayming large allowances when he spent litle to make the Hospitall indebted to him Againe he saith that he hath sold away the two leases in Welborne and his annuitie as if so be he had not money for them and I trust his conscience would not suffer him to be a looser by them For hauing payd 420. li. for Morgans leases he and his felow had 600. pound againe a small gaine when you deale with men of good cleane consciences Further he saith that he hath no lands in Norfolke nor Warwikshire yet in the section next before hee confesseth that hee had lands of his brother Stubbes bound for his annuitie and who wil beleeue but that he hath employed the money that came of the annuitie and leases that he solde or els hath some others to do it for him either to his owne vse or to his wiues or childrens vses and all this albeit I desire not to bee acquainted with his estate I haue by certeine intelligence vnderstood M. Cartwright saith that in a certeme booke he knoweth not where I promise to bee a surueyor or auditor of his and others lands but vnlesse he can shew the place we must record it as vntruth And in the meane while we take him for a man that speaketh he knoweth not what and that is written he remembreth not where By this which is confessed and I haue learned it appeareth that if I had said that his reuenues are more then some 3. or 4. Lordships yet the vntrueth had not bene such as is pretended for you see what is confessed and what is more euery man may coniecture But in deede I doe not say so much but doubting of the matter because of the vncerteintie of mens reports I only asked the question wondering in deede how of so litle beginnings he could arise to such wealth and not beleeuing that such a simple ferme as Waddon is and the fermes are in that countrey albeit the number of acres were so great as he affirmeth and I doe not beleeue and which I doubt not was spentmost during his abode in Cambridge and in his trauel could be sold for
needes shew himselfe so vnkinde as to abrenounce his brothers last requestes and so inhumane as not to see his brothers last will executed be it so and let this be put among the vnciuill and vnnaturall rules of puritanisine yet if he deale in the businesse of his hospitall according to my lord of Leicesters or my lord of Warwikes last will I doubt not but he will proue an executor of a will but forsooth he will not execute any mans wil but great lords howsoeuer it is my argument which in my answere to the petition I made against M. Cartwright and his discipline standeth firme for if M. Cartwr deale in the gouernment of his hospitall and other ciuill causes of his owne albeit hee take himselfe to be a minister of the worde then either hee doeth against his owne rule or els hath no reason to exclude ministers from dealing in ciuill causes but it appeareth he dealeth in ciuill causes yea and that as may by his owne simple tale be presumed very hardly for if beside his annuity and writing for it hee had a lease woorth 6. li. yerely for one peppercorne it appeareth that hard dealing in his conscience weigheth not so much as one pepper come especially if he meant to take the aduantage M. Cartwrights answere to a certeine question of mine concerning purchasing of land and buying of leases Heere sayth he is a 1 Heere is impudent dealing shew my words to this effect if you can charge of a purchase of three or foure good mannours and two good leases and both got for the most part by the 2 Doe you say so your selfe I say it not spoile of the hospitall except the price of some small cottage c. for the purchase of three or foure mannours I neuer purchased any mannour in my life but the mannor of Saxmund 3 M. Caluin neuer purchased so much yet was he as learned as Master Cartwright ham in Suffolke whereof I haue yet but the moity neither shall haue these foureteene or fifteene yeres if one M. Iohnsons leaese be auailable as hither to he hath enioyed it by 4 If by you then you do enioy it mee who haue not disturbed his possession the rent that hee yeeldeth for the one halfe of the demaines is but thirtie shillings by yeere the rent of the demaines that I receiue although 5 Are you a racker of rents and tormentor of tenants enhanced as farre as the tenant may bue thereof is but 26. li. by yeere the other rents for copyholds come yeerely to a 3. li. or there abouts as I 6 His forgetfullage of which he spoke lately maketh him forget the iust of his rents remember so that the whole of that I receiue commeth to litle aboue 30. li. by the yeere to 7 Was not your landes solde long before your purchase purchase this I sold of the inheritance my father and grandfather left as faire a house for a farme not only as is in that towne where it standeth but in diuers townes about which had betweene eight or nine score acres of arable land belonging vnto it with 8 Small matters in that countrey all lying common commons medow and pasture agreeable to the farmes in that countrey by yere more then three times worth the valew that either my father or I receiued for it and yet we receiued 9 All is betweene nothing iust betweene eight and nine pounds yeerely of clere rent 10 Tell what you solde it for and it will appeare that Saxmundham cost you much more discharged of all quit rents that M. Sutcliffe may the better 11 I haue no leasure and I trust you tell true enquire into it the farme is situat in Waddon in the county of Cambridge where I had also a coat with a close adioyning vnto it which I sold when I did sell the other Now 12 Name where I say it where he sayth I purchased my landes with my hospitall I know not why hee should so often terme it 13 Because you are master of it forsooth my hospitall rather then as it is truely called the hospitall of the right honourable the earle of Leicester but this I know and professe constantly that neither I 14 Nor did any to your vse not your wiues vse or childrens nor any for me purchased one foot of 15 Percase you haue bestowed all in leases or other commodities land for me since I came to the hospitall I solde an annuitie in fee simple of 16 That seemeth to be bought for one hundred pound which is no vsury 12. li. 10.5 by yeere since I came thither as my lord chiefe Iustice of her Maiesties Common plees doeth well 17 As if he remembred all fines and bargaines made before him knowe before whom I acknowledged a fine 18 It is no matter your reuenues being great other wayes leases of the hospitall I neuer made but one onely for which the house and 19 What receiued you not I receiued 30. li. and because he draweth me to these accounts of the hospitall I will offer and in the hearing of any equall and indifferent auditor will make it cleere that besides my 20 Trauell about ciuill causes continuall trauell for the setling suites of the hospitall which I neuer brought vp there to would not haue vndertaken for any money but 21 Why haue you your stipend onely for conscience and duety to the poore hospitall my 22 An executour of his will in that L. trusted me with I haue layd out of mine owne purse 23 Can you charge the hospitall with no more 40. marks ouer aboue that which I haue 24 Let vs knowe your allowances and wee will confesse it to receiued or am like to receiue vnlesse the stocke which is holden from the house be recouered this partly may appeare by an account I gaue vnto her Maiesties commissioners who had charge among others to enquire and certifie the whole estate of the 25 Who hath made it poore hauing such good reuenues poore hospitall Now for the two leases in Welborne they were 26 Might not other landes also be bought to M. Cartwrights vse by his friends aswell as these leases bought by a friend of mine who being the principall dealer is left 27 Because the question is only concerning M. Cartwright out whether to draw more enuy to me let it be iudged especially of that which hereafter shall appeare I confesse I should haue had a part therein but they were neuer enioyed either of him or me but were 28 I trust you had money for them released to M. Morgan for that he was not able without his 29 What conscience then had you first to take them vtter vndoing to perfourme them and where he 30 I say not so I onely talke what might be made of them which I hope M. Cartwright looked well to
the braule if you finde your selfe therewith agreeued and not mee that did nothing but defend my selfe and answere What should I speake of the harshnesse and roughnesse of your stile your booke it selfe albeit I say nothing will herein say sufficient against so megre and wretched a discourse what neede I say any thing Yet partly least you should enter into presumption as if you had triumphed ouer me and sufficiently iustified your selfe and partly also to represse that hautines of spirit that possesseth you and maketh you so impatient of due reproofe and partly to cure your followers of that mad humor that maketh them suppose you to be a man without blame and error I haue vndertaken to examine to looke into this treatise of yours more particulerly although otherwise most vnworthy to be refuted or looked vpon and the rather for that your friend that hath made the preface before your booke doeth make such great brags of this defence and standeth so confidently vpon your innocencie and would haue all my writings esteemed and iudged according to this rule I haue also added such questions as you omitted praying your answer for my satisfaction if you mislike this course blame your selfe that drew me forth to iustifie my doings and would not giue mee any rest by your importunitie but if you doe still like it and will further proceede to charge mee with slandering you then for your owne credite if not at my request set downe my wordes truely and wholy and forbeare to forge and deuise matters calumniously I haue shewed you both in this booke and in my answere to M. Throkmorton a precedent deale not worse with mee then I haue done with you but percase all this request is needlesse for I trust his example who now is silent as it seemeth for ought he dare auowe wil teach you not to stirre coles well couered too rashly nor to prate of needlesse matters foolishly nor to runne wilfully into danger when no man driueth you This my answere albeit you looke not for it I dedicate to your owne selfe and not without iust cause challenges they say require answer and 1 Iueunda rerum verissitudo one good turne requireth another all men that haue good minds yeld 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like for like and pay home 3 Quod a se allatum est id sibi relatum puter Terent. in prol phorm as much as they haue receiued yea gratefull mindes 4 Vberiore mensura quam acceperis Cicer. ex Hesiod pay all with ouerflowing measure I doe not looke for any thankes at your hands I know it is an vngratefull world yet if you will patronize this booke and vouchsafe to stay the vnbridled tongues of your disciples that in their Bacchanall banquettes and disciplinarian feastes degorge their malice and speake their pleasures of whom they list I wil accept it at your hands as a fauour and put it into the reckening of your good doings More I haue to say vnto you but the rest you shall receiue in my answere to your challenge praying you to thinke nothing ouermuch nor lightly to condemne any thing before you haue talked with your friend Master Throkmorton to whom I doubt not but you will discommend me and therefore I desire not to be commended to him and so committing and commending you both to your sober thoughts I bid you a dieu MATTHEVV SVTCLIFFE ¶ To the Reader IT may be gentle Reader that either thou mayest thinke mee contentious that haue entred into this quarrell with M. Cartwright being a matter very friuolous no way to any good purpose or els very idle and at great laisure that haue nothing els to busie my selfe withall vnlesse I doe dispute and talke of Hackets Penries matters and M. Cartwrights landes and liuings and also of his domesticall and inward affaires and his priuate conceits and opinions But yet if thou wilt be pleased to consider either the great credite and fame which M. Cartwright hath amōg his followers that admire all his vanities or els the importunitie of him that made the preface to his booke that would haue all my writings measured by this false and deceiuable line of M. Cartwrights apologeticall challenge by the which hee supposeth him to bee cleared and mee to be quite disgraced and therefore seeketh to discredite all that I haue written in the common cause by the supposed vntruethes and slanders vttered against him of which he taketh me as conuicted I trust thou wilt pardon mee although I doe examine euen these fond toyes and fancies not worth a straw and grant that it is to some good purpose if I doe cleare my selfe of those fonde and ridiculous imputations which hee would so willingly and yet doeth so vnhandsomely fasten vpon me I was not ignorant that wise men doe well perceiue this to bee an vncertaine and deceitfull rule considering that such as write best are not voyde of errours and very learned men doe often slip yet such is the iustice and clearenesse of my cause in this controuersie betwixt M. Cartwright and me that I would not feare for once to allowe this rule and to make the most simple iudge of my dealings herein the which helpe seeing my cause doth afford me I thought it not conuenient to leaue to such clamorous aduersaries any pretense of aduantage I am therefore to pray thee not to accompt mee for this cause either contentious and quarrelsome or els vnwilling to accept of conditions of peace but rather to pitie mee whom such contentious fellowes with their vaine iangling and clamarous complayning will not suffer to rest I did neuer challenge any as yet but still wrote against those that had first entred into voluntary quarrels against this Church and state such was my discourse against Bellarmine and the Papists such also were those two bookes which I wrote against the whole fraternitie of the disciplinarians and their extrauagant fancies neither had I to doe either with the authour of the petition or with M. Iob Throk before they did challenge me seeing then this my answere to M. Cartwright is of the same nature why should the same bee more blamed then my other doings As for my leisure I assure thee it was neuer lesse for yet there are not many dayes passed since the Fleete returned wherein I was with others in her Maiesties seruice in the iourney of Guadix and to set my things in order and to refresh my selfe of my former trauailes some time is required as for idlenesse I doe detest it and M. Cartwright and his friendes I thinke will thereof discharge me yet if his peremptory dealing and his proloquutors insolencie would haue suffered mee to rest I could nowe haue bene content to put ouer M. Cartwrights briefe vntill the next returne but being prouoked by both either to yeelde my selfe to haue done notorious wrong or els to make answere although my other busines was great and my ease none