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A31234 A reply to the ansvver of the Catholiqve apology, or, A cleere vindication of the Catholiques of England from all matter of fact charg'd against them by their enemyes Castlemaine, Roger Palmer, Earl of, 1634-1705.; Pugh, Robert, 1609-1679. 1668 (1668) Wing C1246; ESTC R38734 114,407 289

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Calvin Earthly Princes do hereave themselves of Authority when they erect themselves against God yea they are unworthy to be accounted in the number of men therefore we must rather spit in their faces then obey them Passing by what Beza did in France Davila often mentions He writ a Book of the Power of Magistrates which Mr. Sutcliffe confesses armed Subjects against their Prince Sundry Englishmen writ wholly of this Argument That the Councellors and rather then fail the very people were bound to reform Religion whether the Queen would or no though it were by putting her to death I shall trouble you Reader with no more Citations of which our Books are full for I content my self with naming these of the greatest eminency and certainly the opinions of these Doctors may be more justly charged upon Protestants in general then the opinions of private Catholicks upon us because Luther Zwinglius Calvin and Beza were the first Reformers and if the Spirit of God taught them so much truth as they are said to preach why should this be more questionable then the rest Therefore the Pope being Pharaoh and Popery Egypt as Ministers daily affirm in their Pulpits we may well say These are thy Gods O Israel which brought thee out of the land of Egypt These Apostles rested not in the Theory but fell to the Practice also for whereas the Popes since the first rise of the Reformation never gave away evenby word but two Crowns viz. England and France the Reformed have actually deposed the absolute Princes of Scotland Denmark Swedeland and Geneva have ravisht also from their lawful Governours the Low-Countreys Transylvania and many Towns which are now called Free And for Rebellion and Tumults they have been eminent in Poland Boheme Hungary France Germany and in short in all places where this Gospel has been preacht This every Historian can tell you nay blind Mr. Heylin plainly saw it therefore did all he could when these Countries in his Geography were to be handled to purge the Reformed from the Rebellion truly laid to their charge but finding that washing a Blackmore was labour in vain he was forced with his Brother Sleidan to fly for shelter to this abominable and prodigious Argument viz. That Christ foretold that Fathers should be against their sons and brothers against brothers for his sake and that we find not in any Story the true Religion was induc'd or corrupt about to be amended without War and Bloodshed It is true the lawful Protestant Church of England teaches no such Doctrine but this I do not much wonder at for why should men the King being so absolute in Spirituals run the risk to be undone for venting such notions when as their Monarchs have been so strict Professors of their Religion The test of this would be if the Prince and people were different or like to be so in Faith and Worship 〈◊〉 what the English have done herein wh●● this has happened I will shew you 〈◊〉 said by and by For my part I look upon the English to be the most well-meaning and most Religious people in the World and it is that which makes them all so violent in what their Conscience tells them is true This made Papists so earnest for their Religion which had governed England so long in glory This made Protestants fierce to root out what they thought Idolatry This made Presbyterians desire to have Prelatick Superstition reformed and this made Independents and their brood cry down every thing standing stiffly as they imagined for the Kingdom of Iesus Christ I say this great sincerity and zeal makes all our Countrymen so violent which good intention wicked people taking advantage of have caused so many disturbances among us nor can Sectaries ever be quiet till they are convinc'd that some Church or other is infallible Thus Reader have I answered to this strange Calumny against us That our Principles are inconsistent with Govenment by shewing that deposing of Kings is no part of the Catholick Faith which Catholique Princes do very well know and also that in Doctrine and Practice the Reformed have been wheresoever they came far more faulty then we SECT VII APOLOGY My Lords and Gentlemen Had this been a new Sect not known before something perchance might have been doubted but to lay this at their doors that have governed the civilized World is the Miracle of Miracles to us ANSWER VII Here he says that they that have read most and have had the most experience can best cure ●s of the wonder and that K. Iames who had reason to know us said in the Parliament That there were some that might be honest of the Party being ignorātly seduced but they that truly knew our Doctrines could never be good Subjects Then he asks when it was that we governed the civilized World For he says the Eastern and Southern Churches never were under our Government nor the Western neither but when ignorant and barbarous REPLY VII Now I plainly see the design of this Minister is to the end his flock may believe every thing answered to say something to each Paragragh let it be never so frivolous Who is it Reader that having read History is ignorant of the great power the Bishop of Rome had over the East as the Greek Fathers tell us for wee read in Eusebius that Pope Victor about anno 200. Excomunicated the Eastern Church for not keeping Easter the Roman way and this Grimston also has in his account of Popes Or who knows not of the Appeals from Africk when matters of moment arose even in the most acknowledged Primitive times But I ask your pardon for asserting this because in the Primitive times they say the Popes themselves were Protestants Yet though this were so I wonder the Minister should be so forgetful of the Great Antichrist Boniface the III who is baited by every Shoolboy This arrant Pope lived above 1000. years aago and not only called himself Universal Bishop but was owned so too by Phocas the Universal Emperor as all Protestants declare Might not then a man modestly say that Popery governed the civilized World when it governed the whole World But I d of willingly forgive a man this that has the confidence to say that we did not govern the Western World till it grew ignorant and barbarous It may be he means that those Parts have been so ever since Christs time otherwise till this late Reformation there was never any Government on this side Greece that denied the Popes Jurisdiction and Greece it self owned it in the Councel of Lateran and in Hen. 3. time also as Protestant Sir Richard Baker testifies Ever since Rome made het self Mistress of all Arts and Sciences the West took the name of the only civilized place Therefore had he understood civility he would not have made so simple a cavil and I dare say he is the first Protestāt Writer though they have been as