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land_n	case_n	life_n	rent_n	1,727	5	9.7039	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88871	Considerations concerning common fields, and inclosures, dialoguewise, digested into a deliberative discourse between two supposed friends, Philopeustus and Parrhesiastes. And tending partly to state and determine the question of lawfulnesse or unlawfulnesse between inclosures, and common fields, partly to answer some passages, which may be thought to make against inclosure in general, in another discourse lately published by Mr John Moore, under this title, The crying sinne of England, of not caring for the poor.	Lee, Joseph.	1653 (1653)	Wing L843; Thomason E719_9; ESTC R202192	38,528	48

good conscience pure and unspotted will not comply with uncharitable designes although they be vexed and presented for it Concerning all which I would I could say as the Apostle doth Tit. 1.13 This witnesse is true But the contrary is so apparently evident that if some of the men whom Master Moor doth mean be the same that it is conceived they are should I name them onely those that know them would wonder how Mr. Moor could be so much mistaken in them But leaving the men let us come to the matter and setting aside Master Moores restrictive termes of uncharitable designs and such Inclosure let us consider whether it be such a cruel oppression and not to be suffered in the land of uprightnesse as hee pretends that some men should be forced by suits in Chancery to consent to inclosure I mean when it may be done upon equall and indifferent termes for all that have right and with due respect unto provision for the poor And whether such men refusing to give such consent may not without transgression of the rules of righteousnesse or breach of charity have law suits or actions of trespass brought against them For the former we know that the most important affairs both of Church and Commonwealth are alwayes determined in publick assemblies as Parliaments and the like by the major part although many times in number but little exceeding the other And can it then be reasonable that in particular towns when the far greater number of those that are interested doe agree upon a course as of inclosure for the general good of them all upon equall and indifferent termes for every one of them and with due respect unto the poor who have no interest of right amongst them one or two or but a few in comparison of the rest should have liberty to withstand and hinder all Especially if it may appear that they do it meerly of perversness or for evill ends For a court of Conscience as the Chancery to take cognisance of such a case and force the refractory to conformity when Courts of Law cannot I conceive to be not only lawfull but likewise very convenient if not necessary in respect of that interest which the Commonwealth in generall hath in the welfare and prosperity of all its members in particular and therefore hath great cause to take care that the wel-being or wel-doing of many may not bee needlesly hindered by the wilfulnesse onely of a few For the later as it is a transgression of the rule of righteousnesse to bring suits and actions at Law against any man for nothing and a breach of charity to multiply such suits and actions for trifles onely so in determining whether the ground of the suit or action bee nothing or a trifle only not the substance of the matter it self alone but the circumstances also are to be considered As for example If your neighbour have an horse to sel you and you offer him his ful price if he refuse to let you have him it is but a matter of unkindnesse nothing to ground a suit or action at law upon But if hee promise you shal have his horse at such a time for such a price and you trust upon him having occasion at the time appointed to ride a journey upon businesse of importance if in the mean time hee sell the horse unto another man at a greater price although hee bee willing to give you the overplus so that you shall not need to sustain any losse that way yet being by that means disappointed of your journey and so damnified in the businesse which you should have gone upon in that respect you have just cause of action against your neighbour So your neighbours comming over your ground is in it selfe but a trifle but if he practise it ordinarily and will not take warning intending to intitle himself to a way there without leave where of right he hath none it may be a just ground of a law suit and action of Trespasse Therefore that which Master Moore hath added concerning the evil consequences of Law suits and suits in Chancery that some parties have grown distracted and others have never lived a comfortable hour after all the daies of their lives is such as I can say nothing to nor any man else to the purpose unlesse I were acquainted with the particular cases and the circumstances of them Sect. 17. Phil. Page 14. he saith They usually upon such inclosure treble the price of their land and this they get by flaying the skin off the poor Par. If any man impose a greater rent upon his land then it is worth I will not go about either to justifie or to excuse him but that may be done upon land in common fields as well as inclosure and therefore this objection can be of no force against inclosure in general Land may be inclosed and yet no rent put upon it more then it is worth And if after inclosure the profit of the land to the tenant be raised to what proportion soever it bee double or treble what wrong can it be unto him if his rent be raised accordingly But if the profit to the tenant be not raised it is in vain for the Landlord to expect that he should raise his rent any more in grounds inclosed then in common fields I tould you before in answer unto that which you alleadged out of page 10. that the over-rating of rents is not the inequality of them but their disproportion to the profit that may bee raised of the land and so I say now Besides that this objection makes nothing against inclosure there where there are no tenants but all men freeholders that live upon their own lands And more then that to serve Master Moores purpose it must presuppose all Landlords rich men and all Landlords of inclosed grounds not Landlords of those that lie in common fields such as pant thirst and are enflamed as he speaks with covetousnesse and all tenants poor yea such as have nothing but skin left upon them that is according to his own interpretation page 26. very poor none of all which is alwaies so For tenants may be and sometimes are richer then their Landlords and Landlords in common fields may pant thirst and be inflamed with covetousnesse when Landlords of inclosed grounds may be pittifull and compassionate yea bountiful and liberal unto the poor And therefore that which he addeth page 15. I must tell these that thus sell the poor for trifles that I am suspicious they will sell their God for gold and Judas-like their Christ to fill the bagge their profession is nothing if they care not for the poor A Gospel spirit is a giving spirit c. let him bestow upon covetous oppressors wheresoever he finds them either in common fields or grounds inclosed so that he be carefull not to mistake them for fear he mark the sheep with the brand that was made for none but for goats Howsoever let this be

the owner whose right is taken by another without any recompence to him Thus where fields lye open and the land is used in Common he that is rich and full stocked eateth with his cattle not his own part onely but likewise his neighbours who is poor and out of stock Besides that it is an ordinary practice with unconscionable people to keep above their just proportion untill they thinke there wil be notice taken of it and then to remove their cattle out of sight that they may not be observed And with some not onely to encroach upon other mens lands and upon the Common by plowing further then they ought to doe in balks and hades but likewise to remove meer stones to deface the marks of other mens lands and where they finde leas not marked at all to mark them as their own And I beleeve it may be observed that for the most part the greatest complainers against and opposers of Inclosure either in generall or upon equall and indifferent termes are such as have been accustomed unto or desire they may have liberty to practise such licentious courses Phil. But some of this me-thinks is not so much to be complained of as you seem to conceive For the poor man that hath not stock of his own to store his Commons with may set them unto other men and so not be deprived of his right Par. It is true that sometimes he may doe so but not without much disadvantage to himself For the benefit which he should have if the stock were his own accrews unto him to whom he sets his Commons who will be sure not to take them but at such an under rate as that hee may make advantage to himself thereby Which if it be not damnum emergens an encrease of losse must of necessity be lucrum cessans an abatement of profit to the owner And by this meanes in Common-fields many times not Tenants alone but even Freeholders also are eaten out of all and reduced to beggary But what meanes of redresse can you imagine may be had in Common-fields for the rich mans eating up the poor mans Commons in case he can neither stock them himself nor set them unto others Phil. As much I suppose as if his land were inclosed and that he could not have a Tenant for that part which hee could not stock himself Par. No therein you are deceived For in a ground inlosed that grasse which he hath not cattle of his own to eat if he cannot or be not minded to set it to another he may either mow if it be fit for hay or else preserve for his own use against another time when he can get stock to put upon it or if he cannot so soon as he would yet the land at the least would be improved by it against another time whereas in a Common-field it would bee eaten bare by others without any recompence at all to the owner So the two great rules of Moral righteousnesse Suum cuique Render to all their dues Rom. 13.7 and Quod tibi fieri non vis alteri ne feceris All things whatsoever ye would that men should doe to you doe ye even so to them Mat. 7.12 are both transgressed by meanes of this one unremediable evill which fields lying open and used in common are subject unto And why should not all that Master Moor in his discourse hath said against oppression and wrong-doing be applyed as well to oppression and wrong-doing in common fields as in grounds that are inclosed Phil. But why should you pretend a breach of those rules of morall righteousnesse by the rich mans eating up the poor mans Commons when the rich man Commoneth no more then his proportion commeth to For although it happeneth so that the poor mans Commons not being stored the rich mans cattle doe feed upon them yet it is not the rich mans intent or desire that it should be so Par. If that were alwaies true and you could likewise adde that he took no content or pleasure in it but were sorry for it you should say something to free the rich man from being guilty of approving himself in doing wrong though not to repair the poor mans losse But then why doe not such rich men where the fields lye open and are used in common shew their care of the poor by recompencing them for those their Commons according unto the proportion of the profit that accrews unto themselves thereby Is not neglect of the poor in this which is a means both to make and to keep them poor as crying a sinne in Common-fields as it is in Inclosure not to relieve them out of a mans own wherein they can challenge no interest or right at all but of charity Meethinkes it should not be denyed by any man that pretendeth care of the poor But what doe you say to trespasses and intrusions in Common fields Phil. I say they are not proper unto Common-fields alone but the like objection may bee made against Inclosures also Hee that hath the conscience to put cattle upon Commons either more then he hath right to doe or where he hath no right at all it is very like will make little scruple to do so in ground inclosed also if he can finde a fit opportunity to serve his turne Par. You doe well to say so if he can finde a fit opportunitie to serve his turne for that indeed makes a very great difference between common Fields and grounds inclosed namely that ill conditioned unconsiderable people have not the like opportunities to serve their turnes in these as they have in those If the fences about inclosed grounds be good and the gates kept fast other mens cattle cannot easily be turned in or if they be may quickly bee observed But all the wrong in this kind is not done with loose cattle alone It is a thing too usuall in common Fields for one man to trespasse upon another when ground either for grasing or for mowing is severally lotted out those who have consciences large enough to do it will lengthen their ropes or stake them down so that their horses may reach into other mens lotts and either in mowing or in making their hey will adde unto their own by taking from another mans And for the removing or altering of land marks the abuse is so grosse that no man I think can bee so shamelesse as to offer any excuse for it though many be neither ashamed nor affraid to practise it Now all unrighteousnesse is sinne 1 John 5.17 And God is the avenger of all such as goe beyond or defraud the margin of our bibles hath it oppresse or overreach their brethren in any matter 1 Thes 4.7 So that if it were but for this one thing alone inclosure rightly ordered would be necessary to deliver him that is spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor that he may doe no wrong Jer. 22.3 Yea to deliver them out of the hand of the Lord who

likely by the new manufactures to prove a farre greater benefit to the Commonwealth then clothing along either is or can be And yet if manuring of land with the fold be any way advantagious it may be practised as well in grounds inclosed as in common Fields or rather better because when the season is not fit for folding the sheep may be left at large in the pasture without any danger of trespassing in the meddowes or on the corne which in common Fields they cannot be Sect. 7. Phil. But in grounds inclosed there cannot be kept so many cattel either great or small as usually are kept in common Fields Par. It may be so and yet fewer cattle kept in pasture grounds may yeild the owners greater profit then more cattle of the same sorts kept in common Fields can doe and that in divers respects As first they require lesse attendance and so put the owner to lesse charge Secondly they are not subject to so much hazard Sheep that are naturally quiet cattle being hunted and hurried with doggs as usually they are in common Fields to keep them within their compasse are apt to get heats to grow scabbed and break which is not so in grounds inclosed besides that which was observed before concerning the losse of sheep in common Fields by rotts which many times is as great as the yearly rent of the whole Lordship would amount unto And amongst great cattle in the common Fields the weaker are wont to be hurt by the stronger when they are driven togeather in a throng by fighting rushing goaring and the like and are apt to be tainted by one another in times of infection all which in conveniences are much prevented by Inclosure Thirdly where the Fields lying open are used in common which kine being in the summer time kept fasting all night and lodged on the hard stones and in the day time driven up and down from place to place their milk is not onely lesse in quantity but likewise worse in quality being often so heated in their udders that it cannot bee so good for use in butter and cheese as otherwise it might bee and is in grounds that are inclosed Fourthly where the fields lying open are used in common when the weather is wet the cattle by driving to and fro make foul the wayes and having therein first dirtied themselves then stain the ground and make the grasse unholsome which is not so in grounds inclosed Fiftly where the fields lying open are used in common both greater lesser cattle contrary to their natures are constrained to rest when they would feed feed when they would rest yea sometimes are not suffered to be quiet even while they are feeding but kept going eating together which is not so in grounds inclosed Sixtly where grounds are inclosed both the grounds and the cattle may be severally used as is fittest for each store cattle may be put upon grounds that are fittest for store and feeding cattle upon feeding grounds The owners may put off or put on either fewer or more from time to time as they find it most convenient and wait the best times both for selling and buying again with the greatest advantage their grounds in the mean time gathering head so long as they are not fully stockt whereas in common Fields all sheep by themselves and other cattle by themselves go togeather young and old sick and sound fat and lean and when ever any are taken off others must be presently put on in their steed or else the commons in the mean time will be lost from the owner and eaten up by other mens cattle as was said before So usually after maths in common Fields are never let grow to any good head but all being eaten bare before hand long and hard winters make lean and hungry cattle and poor distressed husbandmen And as it is generally to be observed that the richest countreys in the land are those that are inclosed so in particular townes ir may be seen that not freeholders only but even tenants also thrive better there where their lands are inclosed though they pay farre greater rents for them then they doe in common fields though the rents which they pay bee lesse by much Yea in some places it is certainly known that the inclosure of their meddowes onely though the rest of the land were still left open hath been a great benefit to the inhabitants and a means to redeem them from a poor unto a rich condition much more might it have been so if their pasture grounds also as well as their medowes had been so inclosed and yet more if their tillage likewise had been laid together each mans by it selfe whether they had inclosed it or no so that they had only put an end unto their custome of common which is the great occasion of many disorders where the fields lye open and which without inclosure are never likely to be redressed But if all places were inclosed upon equall and indifferent termes for all that have right there and with due respect unto provision for the poor the scandall I believe would quickly cease and all occasions of complaint be taken away Sect. 8. Phil. That may be your opinion perhaps but notwithstanding all that you have said there are divers passages in Master Moores discourse which some men those that would have it so at least will think doe make against inclosure in generall even that which is ordered in the best sort that can be devised and not onely against that which alone as you observed it seemeth he did intend to speak of viz. such as doth un-people towns and un-corn fields I pray you let me hear what you can say concerning them Par. I easily believe it may be so For commonly things appeare to mens eyes as if they were of the same colour with the glasses thorough which they are looked upon and usually such glasses to the minds of men likewise are prejudice and partiality with which that those passages which you speak of in Master Moores discourse may not be discoloured when you repeat the words I shall quickly tel you what I think of them But first I have something more to say concerning the inconveniences or mischiefs rather which they are subject to who live where the fields lying open are used in common As this that there is a great deal of land in common fields which formerly hath been good and might be so again utterly spoyled for want of good husbandry I know a place where by this meanes the Commons were so impaired that the inhabitants agreed to abate of their ancient usual stint one sheep in six and one cow in three and yet did confess that formerly their cattle had fared better at the long stint then afterward they did at the short but they would not be perswaded to bestow better husbandry upon their land though they thought it necessary to make a greater abatement in the number of the cattle which

which I know no reason way it should yet horses out of doubt may better be bred in grounds inclosed then in common fields whereof experience is sufficient evidence Phil. Master Moor adds further in the same page They make beggars of Tenants upon such Inclosure For the Tenant forthwith is discharged of Tillage and Farme to seek a living he knowes not where And in some Towns there is fourteen sixteen or twenty Tenants discharged of plowing all in this sad condition besides many other teams and farmes of Freeholders layd down in the same Towns What say you to this Par. I say these restrictive termes of limitation such and some upon such Inclosure in some Townes make it needlesse for me to say any thins more then I have said to disable it from doing any service against Inclosure in generall because with those restrictive termes that which is so said is nothing to the purpose and without them would be false Yet this let me tell you that for Tenants to be discharged of Tillage and of their Farmes and for Teams to be layd down as it is no necessary effect so neither is it any proper adjunct of Inclosure It doth neither convenire omni nor soli nor semper Not omni for Inclosures may be yea have been made and Tenants neither discharged of Tillage nor of Farmes Not soli for Tenants have been and may be discharged of Tillage and Farmes and Teames layd down in Common-fields Not semper for even in grounds inclosed there where Tillage and Teames have been layd down and Tenants discharged at some times at other times Tenants have been entertained and Tillage and Teames set up again But whether the fields lying open are used in common or be inclosed why should not the Landlord have liberty to discharge the Tenant when his time is expired and come himself to live upon his owne land or take in another Tenant If a Tenant so discharged complain will Master Moore think the Landlord deserveth to be condemned for it Sure it is not sufficient for Master Moors or for any man else out of charity to the Tenant to take notice of his complaint alone but hee must likewise out of justice to the Landlord duly consider whether the cause of his complaint is just Lest he fall under the woe denounced by the Prophet Isa 5.22 against them that justifie the wicked and take away the righteousnesse of the righteous from him What find you next in Master Moore discourse that you think may carry any colour of an argument against Inclosure in generall Sect. 12. Phil. Page 10 he saith Herein is the misery of the Tenant the greater Those that have thus uncorned the said towns and turned all into Pasture and discharged their Tenants these thus inclosed wretches become Tenants themselves and rent land in the open fields round about them or near unto them to maintain their own families with corns and their horses with feeding for which land they give being able to pay for it out of their inclosed grounds excessive rates which if the poor Tenant should give he and his must forthwith come to beggary So that they do not only turn those poor tenants out of inclosed towns but also rent those Farmes and that land in the common fields which the poor tenants else might have rented at an easier rate so that in the conclusion most of these tenants become Cottiers Par. The like complaint maybe made in behalf of Tenants that live upon lands that are inclosed Those that live where the fields lying open are used in common become tenants themselves and rent inclosed grounds round about them or near unto them that they may bee better able to maintain their own families and mannage their tillage in the common fields with more advantage for which inclosed grounds in that respect they can afford to give greater rents then they that live only upon inclosure can doe So that this as the other arguments urged against Inclosures hath the misfortune it may bee some men would think it but I say rather the good hap to conclude as much against common fields If Inclosure make land in common fields scarcer common fields make grounds inclosed dearer And therefore the wonder is lesse that those who live where the fields are inclosed endeavour to hinder the inclosure of the common fields about them They know very will their advantage would be lesse if all men besides had the like opportunity to make it that they have And if there were not so much help as there is from them who live when the fields lying open are used in common from inclosed grounds in other places they would the sooner find themselves necessitated to inclose And then those that live where the grounds are all inclosed would finde it more profitable tilling some then grasing all so that there would need no law at all to compell them to it When tillage is more profitable then pasturage men will break up their pastures to till And why should they not have liberty then to lay down their Arable land for grasse when pasturage is more profitable then tillage I mean as before when the land is fitter for it And so I make no question but they have if the Statutes concerning Husbandry and Tillage were rightly understood and well observed Nor needeth any man in reason to desire greater freedom for laying down any land which bath been used to tillage before then is granted him by the Proviso's in those statutes But it maybe the rate of the rents is the main matter that is stumbled at which yet comes all to the same passe whether the fields be inclosed or no save that there is not so much casualty in grounds inclosed as in common fields as was before observed Tenants may be oppressed and beggered by rents over-rated in common fields as wel as Inclosures and I beleive more often are the over-rating of rents being not the inequality of them unto other rents either in other places at the same time or at other times in the same place but the disproportion of them unto the profit which ordinarily communibus annis may bee raised of the land that is rented over and above the necessary charge of the labour and stock that is to be employed upon it And for tenants becoming cottiers I believe if any man will examine his own experience impartially hee may observe as many not tenants only who alwayes paid great rents but even freeholders also who sometimes payd but little rent or none at all to have become cottiers where the fields lying open are used in common as where they have been inclosed But some men whom our saviour calls hypocrites Mat. 7.5 will sooner observe and reprove a few small faults in others then acknowledge and reforme many greater in themselves And I doe not think Mr Moore can shew so many common fields without disorders as another man may do inclosures without pulling down houses and turning out tenants What

flesh and having sayd expresly page 27 that Ministers must not onley preach but likewise practise this duty of charity to beware of covetousness and to be of a giving spirit me-thinks it was well done of him to forbear this argument wherein hee himselfe is so nearly concerned lest that if hee should have urged it as he hath done others some might have taken occasion thereupon to have retorted this Text and sayd of him as St. John did of Judas This he sayd not that he cared for the poor And indeed to what purpose should an argument against Inclosure bee urged now from Tythes and the right of the Church to them when not onely the right of the Church to tithes is questioned but likewise tithes themselves cryed down by some as not Jewish only but Antichristian also So that some men peradventure might suspect the urging of an argument against inclosure from tithes to be a designe for the continuance of tithes as a necessary means for the preservation of common fields from inclosure which usually those that have interest in tithes are great opposers of But what ever was the reason of Master Moores omitting it I pray you let mee heare what answer you would have given unto it if he had urged it Par. The same that I have done before namely that inclosure rightly ordered cannot be prejudicial to the right of the Church in tithes or to any man unto whom that right of tithes doth appertain For first If as I said before decay of tillage bee no proper or necessary adjunct fruit and effect of inclosure rightly ordered but rather the contrary if more corne may be raised in grounds inclosed then in common fields the tiths may be bettered rather then impaired by inclosure Secondly In case those that have right to tithes are doubtfull of an uncertainty in that whether men will doe what they might doe in that kind or no their interest as well as other mens may be provided for in the agreement and the tithes compounded for either in money or in land Thirdly If no agreement at all be made yet if the tiths be all duly paid in kind as they should be what ever valew they be of the right is preserved and there is no wrong done and that they may bee in grounds inclosed as well as in common fields Phil. Since you are so willing to tell me your mind in that particular although it be not mentioned by Master Moore I pray you do the like in one other thing Par. What it that Sect. 21. Phil. The Apostles rule is Abstain from all appearance of evil 1 Thes 5.22 and Philip. 4.8 amongst the properties of the things that must be thought upon one is that they be of good report But against inclosure generally it is objected by some men that it is of evil report that it hath an appearance of evil in it and therefore must not be thought upon but abstained from What do you say to this Par. To this I say First That an appearance of evil and an evil report are just occasions for men to suspend their resolutions of doing those things wherein there is such an appearance concerning which there is such a report until they have seriously considered of the matter and thorowly tryed whether the things themselves bee such indeed as they appear and whether they ought to bee so reported of But when they come to set up their rest which side they will sit down upon and settle their resolution what to doe indeed it must not be according unto that which doth appear but that which is not according unto that which is reported but according unto that which ought to be It is the Apostles rule 1 Thes 5 21. Prove all things hold fast that which is good and our Saviours John 7.24 Judge not according to the appearance but judge righteous judgement 2. That as evil indeed and the appearance of evill are two distinct things so it is one thing to be ill reported of and another thing to be of evill report Those things alone are of evill report which are evil indeed and ought to bee so reported of But many things are ill reported of which only appears to be evill and are not Multa videntur quae non sunt So the way of Christian religion it self the way wherein Paul professed to worship the God of his fathers by his own confession was called heresie Acts 24.14 and by the testimonie of the Jewes was every where spoken against Acts 28 22. yea our saviour saith to his disciples Mat. 5.11 Blessed are ye when men revile you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsly for sake 3. That although in some inclosure there may bee and too often is not an appearance only of evill but evill indeed though some inclosures have been indeed of evil report that is such as deserve to be evil reported of Yet all inclosures neither have been are or need to be such 4. That even in this particular also as much may be said of common-fields as of Inclosures that in some at least if not in all commonfields there is not onely appearance of evil but evill indeed and that they are not only it reported of but likewise deserve to bee so as I think may sufficiently appear by that which hath been said already Is there any thing else in Master Moores discourse which you make question of Sect. 22. Phil. Not that I remember now But I shall thankfully acknowledge it a further favour if you will be pleased to answer my desire in one thing more Par. What may that be Phil. I hear that now Master Moor doth intend to procure a Petition against inclosure generally subscribed by the inhabitants of divers Counties to be presented to the Parliament which may peradventure give occasion to others to procure an Anti-petition in behalfe of inclosure subscribed in the same Counties By which means it may truly appear who they are and of what condition that stand for common fields or for inclosure In case such a course should be taken what forme of Petition doe you think fit to be presented in behalfe of inclosure Par. For that you shall pardon mee I will not presume to take upon me so much as to thinke of the forme of such a Petition but leave it to men of more ability and experience better acquainted with such courses And for the matter of such a Petition I have told you so much of my mind already that I need to say no more either of what I think fit in such a case to be desired or of what may be urged as reason to induce to a concession of it But peradventure if this discourse which now you and I have had should be known to some of them unto whom Mr. Moor presented his they would think it more fit for him to bestow his pains in seeking to reform the evils and abuses in common fields there where he is acquainted then in