Selected quad for the lemma: knowledge_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
knowledge_n	natural_a	reason_n	revelation_n	1,320	5	9.7973	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93884	The second part of the duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Wherein are maintained the Kings, Parliaments, and all civil magistrates authority about the Church. Subordination of ecclesiasticall judicatories. Refuted the independency of particular congregations. Licentiousnesse of wicked conscience, and toleration of all sorts of most detestable schismes, heresies and religions; as, idolatry, paganisme, turcisme, Judaisme, Arrianisme, Brownisme, anabaptisme, &c. which M.S. maintain in their book. With a brief epitome and refutation of all the whole independent-government. Most humbly submitted to the Kings most excellent Majestie. To the most Honorable Houses of Parliament. The most Reverend and learned Divines of the Assembly. And all the Protestant churches in this island and abroad. By Adam Steuart. Octob. 3. 1644. Imprimatur Ja: Cranford.; Duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Part 2.	Steuart, Adam.	1644 (1644)	Wing S5491; Thomason E20_7; ESTC R2880	197,557	205

viz. One individuall Body actually existent cannot at one time be in divers totall places to be true For the Scripture poseth it not formally but presupposeth it to be true Now I pray you M.S. shew me wherein any Presbyterians contradict these Assertions that I have laid down you name none and therefore I am not bound to answer Only you say I contradict my selfe But wherein Because saith M.S. I say p. 27. § 3. 1. Subordination between superiour and inferrour Ecclesiasticall Iudicatories is partim juris Divini partim Natura lis aut mixti 2. This Subordination c. needs not any patterne expresly and formally from Christ It sufficeth that it have one from Nature p. 36. § 2. 3. And yet we can shew a patent for it not only from the Law of Nature which should suffice but also from the Law of Grace in the Old and New Testaments 4. It is only from God that can give power to any man in his Church pag. 48. 5. Only Gods Word is the rule or measure in matter of Ecclesiasticall or Presbyteriall Government p. 61. 6. Combined Presbyteries judge of Points of Doctrine and Discipline already revealed in the holy Scripture and give us new Ecclesiasticall Lawes of things indifferent p. 34. Answ In my second Proposition he putteth Patterne for Patent 2. Here in all these Propositions there is no contradiction neither sheweth M.S. wherein it consisteth here It may be partim juris Divini and partim Humani 1. In respect of its divers parts whereof some may be revealed in Scripture and some proved by Naturall reason 2. In respect of the same parts which may be both known by Nature and by Divine revelation or some supervenient Divine Ordinance So Divines hold that we know God to be both by Naturall Knowledge and Supernaturall Revelation 3. In so far forth as that which is juris Naturalis is also juris Divini when jus Divinum supposeth jus Naturale for in such a case jus Naturale becommeth Divinum not Thetically but Hypothetically not by any formall Divine Position but by some Divine reall Supposition as I shew it cleerly in that passage of my Book that he citeth p. 36. These three last Propositions contradict not the rest For in the 4. Proposition p. 48. of my Book I speak not of the ground of Ecclesiasticall Discipline nor of it all only I say that it is not in Church-Ministers power to transferre the Ecclesiasticall power unto the Civill Magistrate Which contradicteth not the first three In the 5. Only Gods Word c. But 1. Gods Word there must not be taken strictly for that which is Gods Word formally in terminis Theticè but in a more large signification 1. For Gods Word formally or by consequence 2. In terminis aut in sensu 3. Theticè aut Hypotheticè by some Position or Supposition 3. If ye take Gods Word in the last sense then Discipline or Government must be taken for Discipline in its essentiall and principall integrant parts and not in all its accidentall and circumstantiall parts Neither is it needfull that we have any particular rules from Scripture for every circumstance of Doctrine or Discipline As for example That Sermons should be on such or such Week-dayes so long viz. an houre or two houres long in the morning or afternoon That Ecclesiasticall Senates should sit once a day once a week or once a moneth In the 6. Proposition 1. Discipline there must be taken for Discipline quoad Essentialia Substantialia Necessaria and not quoad Accidentalia Circumstantialia Contigentia Indifferentia as appeareth by my words in the last part thereof New Ecclesiasticall Lawes in things indifferent c. 2. Holy Scripture must be taken in a large signification as I have already declared for so only is it taken by our Doctors when we prove against the Papists that it is the only Rule of Faith In the 2. Position when I say Subordination needeth not c. the word needeth must not be taken for necessarium absolutè or quoad esse but secundum quid ad bene esse not to its being but to its well-being for howbeit Christ had not given us any patent of Subordination in Ecclesiasticall Judicatories in the Gospel yet the Law of Nature and the Scripture of the Old Testament had been sufficient to direct us therein and had bound the Church of the New Testament to the Presbyterian Government And this M. S. acknowledgeth himselfe howbeit not without some Comedian jeeres more ordinary with him then any apparent Reason and confesseth that the words following in the 3. Proposition declare it But put the case that Presbyterians differed as he saith whether it be juris Divini Naturalis aut Humani as they differ not for any thing I know or have read Yet they agree in this That it is Juris Confesse this and ye may live in a Fraternall communion with us for the Difference viz. If one say it is juris Divini another Naturalis another Ecclesiastici will not breed a Schisme for it is not a Dispute de re sed de modo rei to know whether it proceedeth from God as Author of the Law of Nature or of Grace by a Naturall or a Positive Law Much lesse materiall is it to know whether it be in Scripture explicitè or implicitè formaliter aut per consequentiam in terminis aut in sensu et consequenter Theticè or Hypotheticè CHAP. III. Containing the Arguments whereby we prove the Opinion of the Orthodoxe Churches against the Independents borrowed from the Old Testament THe Arguments that might be brought for the Orthodox Churches against all Sectaries are many whereof I will touch a few some from Scriptures of the Old and New Testament and others from reason founded on Scripture but to proceed more cleerly I intend to prove 1. That in Scripture there is more then a Congregationall Independent Church 2. a Subordination of Churches and that in Authority Whether in Scripture or in Reason we find more then a Congregationall Church We affirme and prove it thus 1. Such a Church and Church-government as was amongst the people of God in the Old Testament and is not abrogated in the New may be admitted amongst his people in the New But a Church and Church Government more then Congregationall and Independent was amongst the people of God in the Old Testament and is not abrogated in the New Testament Ergo A Church and Church Government more then Congregationall and Independent may be admitted amongst his people in the New Testament As for the first Proposition I beleeve our Adversaries will not deny it for if it was in the Old Testament it was either by Gods Ordinance or by his Approbation If God ordained it how can they abolish it If he approved it how can they reprove it And for the Assumption I prove it 1. For they had a Nationall Church God dealt not so vvith every Nation Psal 147.19 20.

subjection unto their Order for Compulsion is a principio externo contra inclinationem agentis it proceedeth from an Externall principle against the Naturall inclination of the Agent viz. that is compelled to produce the action and so is exercised only against the Body over which the Church taketh no authority but the Civill Magistrate alone 2. Neither said I to my knowledge any such thing 3. Neither cite you the place 4. Only I remember that in my Observations and Annotations upon the Apologie p. 39. § 4 I said That the combined Eldership having an Authoritative power all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves thereunto viz. in a Spirituall manner since the power is Spirituall Never a word here of compulsion or violence Our Churches neither compell mens bodies nor have they any Prisons or any pecuniary mulcts but if any man will trouble the Church and be disobedient it is the duty of the Christian Civill Magistrate to use his power to hinder such a disorder If we have not a Christian and an Orthodox Magistrate in some places as in France and in some parts of Germany or if the Christian Magistrate will not doe his duty he who will not submit unto our Church-Government is cast out and punished Spiritually by simple Censure Suspension or Excommunication according to the quality of his sin 5. Learne also I pray you M.S. that it is not fallibility but actuall failing or ignorance that may excuse him who is subject unto any Government or Authority from obedience Nor yet all failing in judgement or error but only that which is antecedent to all the acts of our Will which morally we cannot shun and is invincible 6. Neither is it evermore expedient that Subjects know certainly whether their Governours judge or doe right in what they doe for Subjects in some cases must obey in virtue of a probable knowledge or conjecture that their Governours command justly and especially when they are not compelled to be Actors in that which they believe to be unlawfull for them to doe For I put the case that the King and Parliament take a resolution to make War against any Foraigne Prince and presse some men to serve in such a War It is not for every pressed man to call the King and Parliament to an account about the equity of the War neither are they bound to discover to every Souldier all the secrets and particularities of State thereupon M.S. Ob. 28. Why are you not satisfied with that subjection to your Presbyterial Decisions that pleadeth no exemption but only in case of non-satisfaction about the lawfulnesse or truth of them A.S. Ans 1. We are content with it 2. And in case of non-satisfaction our Churches give them sufficient satisfaction 3. But if they will not be satisfied when many thousands are satisfied we maintaine that it is not equitable that when 20000. or 30000. are satisfied two or three under pretext of non-satisfaction or twenty or thirty pertinacious fellowes should have liberty to trouble all the Churches of God in the World 4. We say moreover that the Church in disputing and conferring with them and afterward in judging that she hath given them sufficient satisfaction hath given them sufficient satisfaction morally and that wise men should judge it sufficient in foro Externo and thereupon that they are to be condemned by the Church in foro Externo for there is no other way to proceed to sentence either in foro Civili or Ecclesiastico 5. If this will not satisfie them yet if they will be quiet and not trouble the Church of God with their Conventicles we can in Christian charity tolerate them in their weaknesse yea in their malice if there be any till God impart unto them more grace But this serveth nothing for Independents who are come over the Sea to beg a quarrell of us and to erect Churches in despite of the Civill Magistrate against all Lawes yea against their own Tenets if they write as they believe for they pretend that Churches cannot be erected without the Civill Magistrates consent 6. If all this content them not and their Conscience will not permit them to doe otherwise the Ports are free for them they may be gone and live in all liberty of Conscience in New England and trouble no more the Country here then the Country shall trouble them there 7. Or if this will not content them wherefore will they have more liberty here then they will grant us in New-England M.S. Ob. 29. If Parties may have cause to be offended with the Church then have they power to judge of their actions as well as they of theirs But the first is true Ergo the second also A.S. I distinguish the Consequent of the Proposition They may judge by a publick Judgement It is false for every particular or private man hath not a publike power to judge nor consequently a Publike judgement they may judge by a private power which properly is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 potestas authoritas or Authoritative power or judgement but a judgement of Discretion so it is true but such a Judgement is not sufficient to exempt him from obedience I meane not an active but a passive or rather a permissive obedience for howsoever his erronious judgement may excuse and dispence him from an act wherein he is Actor against his Conscience yet can it not excuse him from suffering the judgement of the Church for if he will not doe what they will according to Gods Word they may doe and he must suffer and permit them to doe what he willeth not and what they will according to Gods Word whereof he hath no Publike power to judge he must no way oppose activè the publike Judgement and Authority of the Church since he hath no publike power he must not set up a new Church but deal with the Church according to his vocation and if he cannot prevail in conferring with the Church he may appeal from a Parish Presbytery to a Classe if there he be likewise oppressed he may appeal to a Provinciall Synod if there again he be wronged by their Judgement he may appeal unto a Nationall Synod if there he be oppressed which probably will not ordinarily fall out in all these Judicatories rather then in first and last instance in an Independent Church compounded peradventure of seven or eight idle Fellows or pretend to be offended he must sit down patiently And if he have any scruple of Conscience he may consult forraign Divines and if those satisfie him not in this singularity of his opinion I then propound my question Whether it be more equitable That all the Churches of the World submit to this particular mans opinion or he to theirs Object But what if they erre all and he be right Answ When God hath not given you any ordinary remedy you must have patience there must be Offences yea Heresies But woe unto him that is the Cause