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A47928 Toleration discuss'd, in two dialogues I. betwixt a conformist, and a non-conformist ... II. betwixt a Presbyterian, and an Independent ... L'Estrange, Roger, Sir, 1616-1704. 1670 (1670) Wing L1316; ESTC R1454 134,971 366

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to be tolerated as well as Christians For They have Consciences as well as We They are convinc'd that there is a God and that That God ought to be Worship't and may plead for the same Freedom in the way and manner of their Proceeding N. C. But Paganism is not within the Pale of the Question C. Why then no more is Conscience If you say They are in the Wrong and so debar them the Exercise of their Opinion because of the Error of it your Exception lies to the Error n●…t to the Conscience and may be turn'd upon your selves For They say as much of You and have as much right to condemn You as You Them Neither have you any more Right to be Judges in your own Case then they in theirs N. C. Well but we have a Law to Iudge our selves by C. And so have They too For They without a Law do by Nature the things contained in the Law and are a Law unto Themselves N. C. But how can that Law-have any Regard to the future Judgment of God when they deny the Immortality of the Soul C. There is a future Iudgment of God in This Life as well as in the next And the Conscience that hath no Light at all of another World is not yet without Apprehensions of Divine Vengeance in This. Raro Antecedentem Scelestum deseruit pede poena claudo You 'l be as much to seek now if you restrain your Argument to Christianity for you must either prove That there are no Erroneous Consciences among Christinas or That Error of Conscience is no Sin or else That Sin may be Tolerated N. C. There is no doubt but there are Erroneous Consciences and it is as clear that Sin is not to be Tolerated But I do not take every Error of Conscience to be a Sin understand me of Consciences labouring under an Invincible Ignorance C. It is very true That as to the Formality of Sin which is the Obliquity of the Will An Error of Conscience under an Invincible Ignorance is no Sin But Sin Materially considered is the Transgression of the Divine Law and Conscience it self becomes Sinful when it dictates against That Law N. C. Can there be any Sin without Assent or any Assent without Knowledge or any Knowledge in a Case of Invincible Ignorance The Transgression of the Law implies the Knowledg of it or at least the Possibility of Knowing it without which it has not the Nature of a Law as to me The Conditions requisite to a Rule are These It must be Certain and it must be Known If it be not Certain it is no Rule If it be not Known it is no Rule to Us. I had not known Sin but by the Law says the Text And in another Place Where there is no Law There is no Transgression From whence the Deduction is clear That Sin is not barely the Transgression of a Law but the Transgression of a Known Law the Inconformity of the Will to the Understanding C. The Perversness of the Will being a Sin does not hinder the Enormity of the Iudgment to be so too Until the Law Sin was in the World but Sin is not imputed when there is no Law In few words The Word of God is the Rule of Truth and all Disproportion to that Rule is Error God's Revealed Will is the Measure of Righteousness and all Disproportion to that Measure is Sin Now the Question is not Whether imputed or no but Whether a Sin or No And you cannot make Error of Conscience to be No Sin without making the Word of God to be No Rule N. C. I do not deny but it is a Sin as to the Law but it is none as to the Person It is none Constructively with him that accepts the Will for the Deed. C. Can you imagine that any Condition in the Delinquent can operate upon the Force and Equity of the Law Because God spares the Offender shall Man therefore tolerate the Offence David was pronounced a Man after God's own Heart shall Authority therefore grant a License to Murder and Adultery N. C. What is David's Case to ours You instance in Sins of Presumpt●…on and the Question is touching Sins of Ignorance C. I was a Blasphemer a Persecutor and Injurious says St. Paul but I obtain'd Mercy he does not say APPROBATION because I did it in Ignorance and Unbeleif Again The Magistrate has a Conscience as well as the Subject It may be Ignorance in him that Commits the Sin and yet Presumption in him that Suffers it Briefly in pleading for all Opinions you plead for all Heresies and for the Establishment of Wickedness by a Law What Swarms of Anabaptists Brownists Familists Antinomians Anti-Scripturists Anti-Trinitarians Enthusiasts and what Not have started up even in our days under the Protection of Liberty of Conscience What Blasphemous and Desperate Opinions to the Subversion both of Faith and Government Where 's the Authority of the Scriptures and the Reverence of Religion when every Man shall make a Bible of his Conscience divide the Holy Ghost against it self and dash one Text upon another He that has a mind to rake further in this Puddle let him read Edwards his Gangraena Bayly's Disswasive Paget's Haeresiography c. To pass now from Opinions to Practices The Liberty you challenge opens a door to all sorts of Villany and Outrage imaginable to Rapine Murder Rebellion King-killing N. C. As if any Man that has a Conscience of his own or knows what Conscience is could give Entertainment to so fond an Imagination as to suppose that God at the last day will approve of Murders Seditions and the like Evils Since what is Evil in it self and against the Light of Nature there is no direction unto it no approbation of it from Conscience in the least C. But what will this amount to when first Every Man's Word shall be taken for his own Conscience And secondly That Conscience pleaded in defence of his Actions That which you stile Murther and Sedition He 'll tell you is only a Gospel-Reformation The Destroying of the Hittites and the Amorites c. So that you are never the better for tying a Man up to the Light of Nature in his Actions if you leave him at Liberty in his Creed For there is not that Impiety in the World but he 'll give you a Text for it The Adversaries of God that refuse to enter into a holy Covenant with the Lord and submit themselves to Christ's Scepter may be Sequestred and Plundered without the Imputation of Rapine for it is written The Meek shall inherit the Earth And it is no more then God's People the Israelites did to the Egyptians Nay if they be Refractary they may be put to Death too without Murder Those mine Enemies which would not that I should Reign over them bring hither and slay them before me If any Man has a spight at the Church it is but
and of other Neighbouring Reformed Churches in those Parts were so scandalized with this Prodigious Covenant as that they were afraid of nothing more then this that it would bring an indeleble Scandal upon the Reformed Churches and alienate the Minds of all the Princes of Christendom from ever enterteining a good Thought of their Religion The Venerable Assembly of English Divines and Scotch Commissioners as they stiled Themselves sent the Copy of their Covenant and a Solemn Invitation to Seventeen Reformed Churches beyond the Seas to Ioyn with them Their Letter should have been Latin But so it was that they left it a Measuring Cast whether they were the better Christians Casuists Subjects or Grammarians Their skill was most employ'd in Exhorting the French Protestants to follow Their Example and cast off the Yoke of Antichrist that is to say of Obedience And in Calumniating their Sovereign as a Confederate with the Popish Interest to destroy the Protestancy Which Design was only to be obviated by a Holy League This was the Drift of the Address But we never heard Syllable of the Answer There needs no more be said to prove the Judgment of the Reformed Churches strong and unanimous against you and you had best make a Trial if you can supply by Reason and Argument what you want in Countenance and Authority SECT XX. The Non-Conformists Exceptions to O●… Publique Way of Worship found Guilty of Great IMPIETY and ERROUR C. WHat are your Exceptions to Our Way of Worship Are they General or Particular Is it th●… Imposition it self or the Thing Imposed that displeases you N. C. Why truly Both. The One takes away my Christian Liberty and the Other the Liberty of my Conscience The greatest part of my Trouble i●… the Act of Uniformity C. Is it the Model or the Uniformity you stick at N. C. Both alike for neither is the Particular Act fram'd to my Satisfaction nor is it possible that any One Form of Worship should suit All Iudgments C. Will Toleration suite All Iudgments any better then Uniformity But I perceive you do not accompt the Sanction of any One Form whatsoever to be Lawful N. C. Indeed I do not think it Lawful for a Magistrate to enjoyn any thing upon a Penalty which a Private Person may not Conscienciously Obey him in Nor do I think it Warrantable for a Man to Obey any Humane Command against the Dictate of his Conscience C. Put This together now First It is not Possible that any One Form of Worship should suit All Judgments And then It is not Lawful to enjoyn any thing upon a Penalty which does Not suit All Judgments What is This but a meer Trifling of Government to suppose a Law without an Obligation Again If the Magistrate cannot Impose neither can he Tolerate unless you 'l suppose him a more Competent Judge of Four Conscience then of his Own for you allow him to Understand what he may Tolerate and deny him the Knowledge of what he may Impose So that either he has no Power or no Reason to favour you No Power as you state his Capacity And no Reason as you disclaim his Authority But you were saying that the Imposition takes away your Christian Liberty As how I beseech ye N. C. In making Those things Necessary which Christ left Free. For wherein does Christian Liberty more concern it self then in the Free use 〈◊〉 Indifferent or the Forbear●…nce of Doubtful things which we are bound entirely 〈◊〉 preserve And whereof by your Ecclesiastical Injunctions we stand Depriv'd C. If the King be Ty'd up in Matte●… that are either Commanded or Forbidden and the People left at Liberty in things Indifferent I would fain know what Authority has to work upon But thi●… Point will fall in of it self by and by Though enough be said already to prove your Position utterly destructive of Order and Society For there is but Good Bad and Indifferent in Nature What we are BOUND to do What we are Bound NOT to do and What we may either DO or LET ALONE That is to say without the Interposal of some Incidental Obligation to determi●… that Indifference The Asserters of this Doctrine fetch their Warrant for it out of St. Paul 〈◊〉 the Galatians 5. 1. Stand fast in the Liberty wherewith Christ hath made us Free Upon This Text they ground their Exemption But here they prudently st●… too for the Context would have spoil'd all And they might as well have Argu'd against the Efficacy of Christ's Death from the latter part of the second Verse as for Christian Immunity in the Latitude they understand it from the former part of the first The Apostle goes on in These Words And be not entangled AGAIN with the Yoke of Bondage 〈◊〉 Behold I Paul say unto you that if ye be CIRCUMCISED Christ shall profit you nothing 3 For I testifie again to every Man that is CIRCUMCISED that he is a Debtor to do the whole Law The Case briefly was This. By the Coming of our Blessed Saviour the Iewish Ceremonies were abolish'd Some that had a mind to Continue them and keep the People still under the Yoke of the Law stood for the Doctrine of the Circumcision which was here the very Matter in Q●…estion The Apostle cautions the Galatians against it and not to be entangled AGAIN with the Bondage of the Law Which amounts only to a Discharge from the Bondage of That Law to which they were before Subjected without extending That Liberty to the Prejudging of Authoritative Laws and Impositions for the time to come As if the Apostle had Preached one thing to the Galatians and the contrary to the Romans Obedience at pleasure in one place and Obedience under pein of Damnation in another In the Second and Third Verses St. Paul you see clears and presses it further As if he had said Be Circumcised at your Peril For That single Point of the Law makes you answerable for the Performance of every Title of it We are not says Calvin Perperam ad Peliticum Ordinem perversly to apply the Doctrine of Spiritual Liberty to Political Order as if Christians were to be ever the less Subject to External Government by Humane Laws because their Consciences are set at Liberty before God Nay says he in another place Si Ecclesiae Incolumitati benè prospectum volumus The Church can never be safe without St. Paul's Decency and Order But in regard of the diversity of Customs and the variety of Mens Minds and Opinions It is not possible to secure any Polity without the Authority of certain Laws or to preserve any Order without some stated Form Now so far am I from condemning any Laws conducing to this End Ut his ablatis dissolvi suis Nervis Ecclesias Totasque Deformari Dissipari contendamus that I look upon the Removal of them as the Dissolution of the very Sinews of the Church and expect nothing after it but DEFORMITY and DISSIPATION Nor is it
to be Imagin'd that All things should be done Decently and in Order after the Apostles Precept but by the mediation of certain Rules and Observations which may serve as so many Bonds for the Regulation of that Decency and Order Always provided That Those Ceremonies be not Imposed as Necessary to Salvation or Essential to God's Worship From your Plea for Christian Liberty which is a Proposition in it self destructive of all Communities let us now move to your next Exception in the Matter of Scruple wich I am afraid will be found no less Intolerable in Religion then the other was in Government and Dangerous enough in Both. It would take a Man an Age to run through all the Quirks and Niceties of the Question and to trace every Particular in dispute from the Original of its Practice or Institution And beside It were but Actum Agere for the Lawfulness and the Antiquity of Bishops Liturgies and Ceremonies with all the Minutes sion I am perswaded it would pose the ●…est Conveyancers in this Kingdom to draw up a Deed of Trust to That Purpose without a Flaw in 't That is to say A Commission from the Diffusive Body of the People must be Directed to such and such Ministers as Commissioners for Tender Consciences From HEAVEN it never came neither I do verily believe For most certainly Christ and his Apostles never Issued out any Commission for the Distracting of Consciences and Societies We read indeed of CONFIRMING the Weak but not a Syllable of STAGGERING them And for the Extraordinary Ways of Vision and Revelation they are not so much as mention'd N. C. If you would have given me leave I should have told you e'en now that they are Warranted by a Sense and Impression of Conscience in the Discharge of their Pastoral Duty Which obliges them To watch over their Flock To preserve them from Errours Heresies Divisions To Defend the Truth Confute Gainsayers and Seducers Instruct the Ignorant Excite the Negligent Encourage the Despondent Comfort the Afflicted Confirm the Weak Rebuke and Admonish the Disorderly and Scandalous C. Here 's much against you and no●…●…ne Word in your Favour Instead of PRESERVING their Flocks FROM Heresies and Divisions your Pastors demand a down-right TOLERATION of them And instead of Encouraging the Despondent Comforting the Afflicted and Confirming the Weak They tell the Distressed for their Comfort that if they do any thing with Doubting they shall be Damn'd and never go further to deliver them from those Doubts but there they very fairly leave them Surrounded with in●…xtricable Scruples and their very Souls Broken and Confounded with Agony and Horrour Whether they do Well or Ill now be You your self the Iudge My Opinion is that they have as little to say for the Conscience of their Proceedings as any way else First Their very Preaching and Writing by reason of their Legal Incapacity is a Transgression of the Law Secondly In the Matter it self they are to blame for it is of very evil Consequence both upon the Publique and upon Particulars To sa●… nothing of their Undertaking for other Mens Consciences which is a Privilege belonging only to God himself That they do Ill in disobeying the Law and in troubling the Government I suppose you will not deny And yet am I perswaded that the very Foundation of their Plea for Separation and Dissent is the greatest part of the Mischief We have Laws Ecclesi●…l for the Ordering of the Church and you refuse to Obey them For what Reason I beseech you N. C. The best Guide in the Case of Impositions and Obedience I take to be the Word of God and our Doubtings sure are very Reasonable concerning God's Worship where the Scripture gives no Direction Shew us where they are Comma●…ded in the Gospel and we are ready to Obey them C. The Scripture is the Rule of our Faith not of our Outward Actions and Practise 〈◊〉 Whatsoever to make up the Doctrine of Man's SALVATION is added as in supply of the Scriptures Insufficiency we reject it But does it therefore follow that ALL things Lawful to be done are comprehended in the Scripture Admit This and God in delivering Scripture to his Church should clear have abrogated amongst them the Law of Nature which is An Infallible Knowledge Imprinted in the Minds of all the Children of Men directing us in the Choice of Good and Evil in the Daily Affairs of this Life Admit This and what shall the Scripture be but a Snare and a Torment to Weak Consciences filling them with Infinite Perplexities Scrupulosities Doubts Insoluble and Extreme Despairs Not●… that the Scripture it self doth cause any such thing but the Necessities of this Life urging Men to do that which the Light of Nature Common Discretion and Judgment of it self directeth Men unto On the other side This Doctrine teaching them that so to do wire to sin against their Souls and that they put forth their Hands to Iniquity whatsoever they go about and have not first the Sacred Scripture of God for their Direction How can it chuse but bring the Simple a Thousand Times to their Wit●… End How can it chuse but v●…x and amaze them to be obliged in every Action of Common Life to find out some Sentence of Scripture Clearly and Infallibly setting forth what we ought to do Admit This and it shall not be with Masters as it was with him in the Gospel but Servants being commanded to go shall stand still till they have their Errand Warranted unto them by Scriptures Thus far the Learned Hooker in Agreement with Mr. Calvin the Oracle of the other Party in his Chapter of Christian Liberty who writes to this Effect Let every Man have a care not to make things Indifferent Matters of Religion for nothing can be more necessary then the right understanding of That Liberty without which we shall never have any Peace of Conscience and there will be no End of Superstition Quae si aberit nulla Conscientiis nostris futura est Quies Nullus Superstitionum finis He that Scruples the Lawfulness of Eating or Drinking Delicacies will by degrees let his Scruple fall to Meats and Drinks l●…ss Delicats and so from one thing to another Lower and Lower and all this while in a perpetual Anxiety of Conscience till he comes at last to satisfie himself that what he takes both for Quantity and Quality is but just sufficient to entertein the absolute Necessities of Nature He must have a Text for every thing he does and not step over a Straw without consulting Scripture first and every Common Action is made a Case of Conscience From this miserable Perplexity of Mind what can be expected but Despair and Confusion Hanging Drowning Cutting of Throats and all the wretched Extremities of Violence which those poor Creatures exercise upon themselves as their last Retreat to avoid the Fury of a Tormenting Conscience This is the Fruit of the Doctrine of CHRISTIAN LIBERTY