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A14060 A perseruatiue, or triacle, agaynst the poyson of Pelagius lately renued, ... by the furious secte of the Annabaptistes ... By Willyam Turner, Doctor of Physick. Turner, William, d. 1568. 1551 (1551) STC 24368; ESTC S101787 56,116 208

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in these wordes He that wyll beleue and be baptised shall be saued What wood spret taught you this folish philosophy that one cause shuld bring lurth two diuerse and contrary effectes as ar saluation condemnatiō It is a great maruell to se such great arrogantie as ye haue to be ioyned wyth so lytle knowlege But so are thei al that are blasted with the Anabaptistical sprit as you be If that I could haue made no other shyft when ye argued with me that al Turkes and Iewes were withoute origynall synne because they had no water offered vnto thē I might here by youre helpe in this place haue answered thus ye say that remission of syn and baptim is offered vnto all then when as baptim is not without water water is offred vnto al thē by your own graūt all haue originall synne whyche ye denied stoutly before because sum wanted the offeryng of water To that ye say the Gospel hath no powre vpon infantes and muche lesse sacramentes that therfore nother preachyng nor administration of sacramentes ar dew to infantes by the word of god I meruel what ye mean by hauyng power If ye meane by hauynge power ouer to belonge and to be profitable your sayng is twise false for both the word of God belōgeth vnto infantes presently by the reason of the promys whyche is made vnto thē in the worde and it is dew vnto thē against thei come to age as a chylder landes are dewe vnto him thoughe he can not inioye them afore he come to age that the administration of Sacramentes ar dew vnto chyldren the Sacrament of circumcisyon and the rayn bow are witnesses agaynst you and proue yow ar a fals a shameles lyer therfore who wyll beleue yow hereafter no mā but such as haue delyte in lyes and abominable heresies Youre conclusion agreeth as well with your antecedēt as thys argument doth folowe a staff standeth in the corner ergo a man rinneth and it is of such a fasshon made that I dowt whether it be more folyshe vnlearned or more malicious for it presupposeth that I brought in to proue that childer had originall synne a brushe when as made mention of a brush not to proue that chyldren had origynall synne but for a similitude after this maner Euen as whē one bryngeth a mā a brushe that is commed home from hys iorney it is a signe that his clothes ar dusty so when as water is offered vnto thē that ar baptised it is a token that they had nede of scouryng and clengyng and ar vncleue Nether dyd I holde that water dyd scoure the sowle but I shewed that the water betokened that the sowl of thē that were baptised had nede of scowryng Then let all christian and learned men iuge how learned and charitable is this your conclusion So that your brushe proueth the contagion of infantes as ruyche as your water and helpeth alyke to scoure the same ¶ After this your vnlearned and malitious conclusion ye begin a new mater feyn a sayng of your own braine as thoughe I had sproken it and them ye scourge me for your foolishe dawishe and vnlearned lyinge for after these my wordes Well it is good to remede a diseas in the beghinnyng and to stay hys course lest at lenght it grow ford far that it be past remedie or help It is spoken lyke a Phisition and that maketh yow to lay a playster of colde water to the synn of infantes so tymely But suerly out of dew tyme and other to parly or to late for they ar wors afterwarde ¶ Is not thys a prety fashion of confutyng for lack of scripture reason and learning to feyn lye and scof after thys manerye ar lyke to wyn but a few scolares that ar honest men after this maner All myghty God in the olde Testament knowinge that the infātes of his people wer sike in original syn gaue them the medicine of remissyon of synnes commāded that they shulde haue circumcision layde vpon them as a seale and token of goddis promised and fauour vnto them That all myghty GOD promised the chylderen of the Iewes remission of sinnes these wordes do testifi Genes xvij I wyll streynge then my cumnant betwene me and the and betwene they sede after the in theyr generationes with an euerlastyng cōnant that I may be a GOD vnto the and to thy sede Then to bee a God is to be a sauiour but he sayde he wolde be a GOD vnto the chyldren of the Iewes therfore he promysed that he wold be a sauiour vnto them So that the promyss of saluation belongeth as well vnto the chyldren as it perteyneth vnto theyr fathers It is expressedly declared in the same chapter that the loue of GOD was so great vnto chylderen that he not only graūted vnto chylderen saluation but also the seale and sygne of saluation the Sacracrament of circumcision as these wordes bear witnes Thys is my comnant whych ye shall kepe betwene yow and me and also betwen thy sede after the let euery male be circumcysed among yow But ye shal circuncyse the fleshe of your forskynne whiche shall be the sygne of the couenant betwene yow and me and they ought to be circuncysed that my couenant myght be in your fleshe If GOD be true as he can not befals there the yong chylderen obteyned it That GOD promised and that was remissyone of synnes whych was the promised blissyng and that GOD commandeth the sygne and seale of remission of synne to be layd vpon chyldern this is also certayn Then whē ay all myghty GOD the archephisiccon and heler of both body and soule began so tymely and erly to heale yong chyldern no godly man wyll mock Christes ministres while they lay vpon the infantes of the christianes the sygne of saluation of remission of sinnes after that almyghty God hath heled thē from originall syn as well as he heled the childer of the Israelites If that ye deny that the childer of the Israelites were healed ye must deny that God promysed to be a God vnto them If they were healed thē ar our children also healed by thesame physician as erly and tymely as the Iewes chyldren were healed seyng God loueth the Christianes chyldren as well as he dyd the Iewes chyldren and hys promis of helth and saluacion was as well made vnto our children as to the Iewes chylder All chylder ar infected with originall synne whiche if it were not taken away should turne them to damnacion then to offer vp chylder vnto Christ that they may receyue at the cōtemplacion of the prayers of the church and for the promis that God made vnto them remissiō of theyr originall vnclenenes is that to tymely don when as they ar conceyued in wykkednes and borne in synne But I know your meanyng well ye ar of that mynde that ye thynke that chylder haue no synne and that therfore ye reken that they nether nede goddis physik nor any seale of
infantes expressedly therefore chylderen ought not the baptysed If they be good argumentes then all the conclusiones that I gather are true and so ar ye a fals man and a perillons heretike When as ye say that By baptym alone is no saluation but by baptyme and preachyng I aske you whether ye meane hole baptyme that is bothe the inwarde and the outwarde baptym togyter or the outwarde baptyme a loue If ye meane of the inwarde baptym and outwarde bothe conioyned together ye hold an opē heresi agaynst the scripture for thus wrytethe the Apostell of CHRIST saynt Pet. j. Pet. iij. few sowles that is to wit eyght were saued in the arke throw the water to the figure where of baptyme at this tyme answering doth now lykewyse saue vs. Paul also the elect vessel of GOD gyueth vnto the right holy baptym clengyng and the hole man and also saluation Ephes v. husbandes loue your wyues as Christe hathe loued hys churche and gaue hym self for it that he myght hallow and clēge it by the bath of water thorow the word and Tit. iij. But after that the goodnes and loue of GOD oure sauioure towarde vs appered not of the workes that ar in the righteousnes which we did but accordynge vnto hys mercy saued vs throwe the bath of the new byrthe and the renewyng of the sprite Paule also graunteth that baptime is of suche effect that the receyuyng of it is the receyuing and puttynge on of Christ is not Christ saluation and doth not baptim bring Christ Paules wordes ar these As many of you as are baptised haue put Christ vpon you Then when as Peter doth expressedly gyueth saluation vnto baptim and Paule like wise your erroure is open and seene of all that haue any eyes to se withal The perfit baptim hath Christ it hath the holy gooste likewise for thei that ar rightly baptised haue the holy goste and Christ put vpō thē Is not this baptim able to saue alone wherin is Christ with his holy spirit if ye meane by this word baptim only the outward baptime I graunte you that by it commeth no saluation alone ye moreouer that it is no parte of saluation but that it is onely a signe a certification of our saluation But then ye shall in to right popistry for ye fall that of preachyng and baptyme meaning of outward baptime commeth saluation preachyng is a worke of mā in opening of goddes word and the outward baptim is an outward worke then if these twoo together bring saluation then workes bryng saluation How far are ye syr now from popistry whych call other men papistes farther from papistry then ye are nere vnto the verite Christ sayeth Mar. xvi He that beleueth and is baptised shall be saued but he sayeth not he that heareth the worde of god hath only the outward baptime layed vpon hym shall be saued ye haue be like authorite of youre woode spirite to make new textes of scripture and to bylde thereupon what ye lyst Other haue ye none If preaching baptim be the meanes to saue and damne the hole worlde by how proue you that baptime is ordened to damne men wythall let vs heare one word of scripture of you to proue this strange opinion withal But least any man shuld thinke that I reherse that ye neuer wrote I will write your awn wordes By baptime alone is no saluation but by preachyng baptim certaine it is that God is able to saue hys chosen Churche wythout thes meanes But thys is hys ordynary waye to saue and damne the whole worlde by namely by offerynge remyssion of synnes and baptime to all the worlde that thereby the beleuers maye be absolued from all conscience of synne and the disobedient and vnbeleuers bounde styll other to amende or to be damned for he that beleueth not is all redy damned The offeryng of remission of sinnes and of baptim is not the law whose office is to condēne but it is the glad tidinges whiche we cal the Gospel ye are so vnlearned and so foolyshe in your reasonyng that ye are vtterly vnworthy to be reasoned wythall so that it hath repented me ofte sence that I began to write that I troubled my selfe wyth such a bungler But leste your bablyng boosting shuld bringe any simple people out of the way I wyl not disdayne to opē your folishnes to bewray your abhominable heresies Saint Paul vnto the Romanes iij. sayeth by the law cummeth the knowlege of syn In the .iiij Capter he sayeth that the law worketh wrathe and in the seuenth chapter I haue not knowen sinne but throw the law so that it is the office of the law to shew syn and to condemne the worlde wherfore ye do against al scriptur to trāslate remoue the office of the lawe vnto the moste comfortable offeringe of remission of syn and to the most sure seale and signe of our saluatiō baptim is the ende or office of offering of remission of sinne is to saue make blessed for thei are blessed sayde Dauid whose sinnes ar forgiuen What is the Gospel or glad tidinges els but the offering of remission of synnes Did not Christ commaun hys disciples to preache repentaunce and that the kingdom of heauen was at hande dyd not the angel bring in the tydinges of peace was not remission of synne offered where peace was offered What other thyng did the Apostels els then offer remission of synne vnto theyr auditores Christe commaunded them to preache the Gospell and thys Gospel or gald tydinges was remission of synnes How can then the offerynge of the Gospell whyche was ordened to saue the worlde bee a meane to damne the worlde How can baptime whyche was ordened to bee an instrument of salmation be an instrument of damnation The offeryng of remission of synnes is the offerynge of an holsum medecine Baptime is as it were a confortatiue vsed to bee gyuen vnto the syk after purgations Who is he that hath the comon wyt that wyll saye yf a foolyshe syke man refuse an holsum medicine with a confortatiue and he die for lacke of medicine that the offerynge of the medicine wyth the confortatiue was the meanes whereby thys man came vnto hys deathe Yet doo ye thys whyle ye make the offerynge of remyssyon of synnes to bee the meanes whereby GOD dampneth and saueth all the worlde by If faith do iustifie as oft times ye graunt wyth open mouthe then doth infidelite condemne and it is the meane where by the worlde is condemned as Christ witnesseth he that beleueth not is condemned already Lo here is condemnation assigned vnto vnbeleue and nother to the offerynge of remission of sinne nother of baptime Then may it easely be spyed how vnlearnedly ye alleged thys text he that beleueth not is condemned already to proue that the offerynge of remyssyon of synnes and baptime is meanes bothe vnto saluation and condemnation namely when as Christe immediatly before shewed the meanes of saluation