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A70985 The reign of the whore discovered and her ruine seen her merchants the priests examined, and with the Romish church (their elder sister) compared and found agreeable in many things ... : some queries also for those people that pay tythes, and priests that receive tythes, to consider and answer : and whereas their cry hath been loud against us the people of God called Quakers, that we are Jesuits, and Jesuitical, in tryal they are found false accusers, and of the same stock and generation themselves ... : also the sustance of a dispute which was the 15th day of the 2d month, called April 1659, at the Bridge-house in Southwark, between VVilliam Cooper, VVilliam VVhitaker, Thomas VVoodsworth, VVieles, Watkins, Cradicut, and others who profess themselves ministers of Christ, and some of the people call'd Quakers ... / written in that which gives to see over all the popish train ... W.S. Smith, William, d. 1673.; Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662. Following letter containing the substance of the dispute. 1659 (1659) Wing S204A; ESTC R33983 31,593 40

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your Idolatry in your lightness pride and high-mindedness How many of you have appeared like a Troop of Robbers in taking and causing to be taken away violently poor peoples Ports and Pans and Kettles and dishes from them sometimes not leaving them things necessary to make ready their food in and Bedding and Clothes and Oxen and Cows and Horses and Harness and Barns of Wheat and Cart-loads of Hey and Corn and their bodies also cast into prison Hath not this been your Work in this Nation Hath not the Lord raised a patient and harmless people to try you which have not striven against you in their Wills that you might manifest what was in your hearts notwithstanding your talk of Christianity Have we not seen the murtherer offer a sacrifice and the prophane person weep for the blessing and the children of the Devil call God Father Hath not our eyes seen this And is it not manifest if the Lord God which is the higher Power unto whom our souls are subject did not over-power chain and fetter and break the horns of the Wicked no less then our lives and blood would satisfie for had not you to wit you especially called Presbyterian Priests rather sit as a Popish Synod or Inquisition then in the spirit of meekness lowlinss and soundness in words in life and conversation and Scripture-example prove your selves Ministers of Christ by your fruits effects Was ever the true Ministers of the Gospel in any age or generation since the days of Christ the Son of the living God manifest at Jerusalem maintained as you are maintained by the ruine of others Did they ever take any thing violently from any man Nay did ever they take or receive any thing at all from those that denied their Doctrine and that would not receive nor own them as Ministers of Christ What are you quite without shame Are you so greedy of filthy lucre that you do not care how much you manifest your shame and uncover your nakedness to all people If you keep a Flock eat the Milk the Flock will give you if you plant a Vinyard eat the fruit the Vinyard will yeild you should you covet your Neighbours goods and take them away because you say he is a Heretick Should you rob your Neighbours vinyard because you cannot have fruit enough to satisfie your covetous desires out of that you have planted Should you go reap your Neighbours field because where you have sown there is little come up but briars and thorns If you do thus may not we yea all people count you greedy of filthy lucre covetous persons and robbers Would you have better come up then you sow They that preach the Gospel lives of the Gospel and they never did nor need petition the powers of the Earth to establish a Livelyhood upon them but you smell much of Popery in this thing and you have no example in the holy Scriptures to justifie you but the Romish black Train is your example and therefore we deny you and cannot but count of you as you are and in so doing we wrong you not But have not you wrong'd us and falsly accused us and charged us to be like or one with those whose example you are found in and whose steps you follow to wit false Prophets false Teachers Popish Priests and Jesuits You shall bear your own Judgement Sixthly Concerning your Doctrine Practices Places and manner of Worship Are you not found and do we nor find you in the popish Doctrine and Jesuitical practices and popish Mass-Houses and in the manner of their Worship in some things and in some other things of later invention which the Scriptures doth not own nor justifie neither did the Ministers of Christ allow of If so may vve not count you such as do not deny the popish vvayes places and manners but lives in them and by them Is it not a popish Doctrine and practice to oppose the light within wherewith Christ hath enlightened every man that is come into the World and to teach some other way to attain the knowledge of God besides the light which shines in the heart notwithstanding the Scripture testifies that the light which shines in the heart must give man the knowledge of God in the face of Jesus Christ And is it not the papists doctrine and practice to deny Revelation and Inspiration and the immediate power of God present now as of old and is not this your Doctrine and practice also Doth not the Scripture say or is it not written That there is none that knows the Father but the Son and he to whom the Son reveals him So do not the papists herein and you with them deny that the knowledge of God is attainable seeing you deny the way wherein the manner how the thing by which he is known seen and revealed to wit the light within and if God be not known onely and alone by the revelation of Christ and you and the papists deny revelation and say it is ceased then by what means do you expect to attain the knowledge of God which is life eternal And how do you that deny Inspiration and immediate power from God believe the Scriptures wherein is promised many glorious things to be enjoyed by the children of the Lord as the pouring forth of his spirit upon his sons daughters and how do you own the New Covenant the fear in the heart and the Spirit of the Lord in the inward parts and you that deny the immediate voice power and presence of the Lord as of old how do you believe Christs words who said to his Disciples Lo I will be with you to the end of the world and is not the presence of Christ the immediate power of God and where two or three are gathered together in his Name is he not in the midst and is not he and his Father one whose abode is with his people But is not this too wonderful for Hirelings without a meaning And why do you talk of the Scriptures for your Rule Is it not for ends to yourselves Doth the Scriptures your pretended Rule justifie you any more then they justifie the Pope Cardinals Bishops Jesuits Fryers Monks and popish priests VVhy do you talk of three persons or Trinity Hath not the Pope learnt you that also Doth the Scripture speake anywhere of three persons And where had you that word Sacrament and the word merit Had you not these from the papists And concerning your places wherein you commonly perform your publike VVorship who founded and named them for you Did not the papists as St. Mary Magdalens Church St. Thomas his Church St. Stephen's Church St. Peter's Church St. Paul's Church Did not the very same spirit that was cast out of Mary Magdalen and that stoned Stephen and that murthered Peter and Paul build and give Names to those Steeple-houses which you have suffered if not taught the people to call Churches and the Houses of God insomuch
way of maintenance in your ministry by Tithes and gleab-lands and Easter reckonings and so much a year out of your Parish did not all this proceed out of the Church of Rome and was not in the day of the Apostles nor practised by Christs ministers but from the Whore you have had this also this way of being maintained and suing people at the Law for your Tithes and for your money Christs ministers never did thus but the Churh of Rome hath been the originall of all these things and practises and from whence had you this practice of sprinkling infants and calling it the Baptisme into the faith and into the visible church did not this come from Rome and have not you received it from thence if there was any such Institution or Practice amongst the Apostles prove it by Scripture else we will not believe you but must tell you the originall of this came from Rome and you have drunken the Whores cup and been made drunk thereby so now when we examine you throughly in your wayes and practices we find you agreeing with the Jesuites in many things and while you accuse others your selves are guilty and now people begins to see your shame and you cannot hide it for the witness is risen in people and the seed of God is coming forth which tramples over and treads down the false church and all her false ordinances and institutions and her cup must be broken to pieces and she shall no more make the Nations drunk and as for you false ministers though you pray and preach and cry against Heresie and Error and would beg Laws to suppresse it as ye say yet your selves are found guilty of the error and you want the spirit of truth to guide you and your own hearts are not cleansed and then how can you cleanse others and that which you call error and heresie is truth for your judgements are corrupted and your eye is blind and what you know you know naturally and not by the teachings of the spirit of God but by Traditions and by the words of other men without you and the holy anointing in your own selves you know not for you have not received it And whereas you queried whether the Scriptures were the word of God and the rule of life I do now answer The Scriptures were given forth by the spirit of God and are the words of God the word was in them that gave them forth and Christ is that word and the Scriptures testifie of him the Scriptures are not the rule of life but the spirit that gave them forth that is the rule to the children of God for as many as are the sons of God are led by the spirit of God and them that walk according to that rule of the spirit peace is upon them and so it is the spirit of God that gave forth the Scriptures that is the rule of life and not the Scriptures yet where the spirit is the rule it leadeth up according to the Scriptures in the fulfilling of them and as for ye hypocrites who do profess the Scriptures to be your rule and yet walks contrary to the Scriptures your own rule condemns you and out of your own mouths will the Lord judge you Is the Scripture your rule to preach for hire and to have so much a year for preaching and if any will not pay them to sue them at the Law and take their goods by violence and to cast their bodies into prison this is the practice of many ministers in this nation but what rule in all the Scripture have you for these things or vvhat example saving from the false Prophets false Apostles and vvhat rule have you in all the Scriptures for sprinkling of infants and calling it Baptisme into the faith and what rule have you to take Tithes and are not you hypocrites to professe the Scriptures to be your rule and yet act these things which the Scripture neither gives Commandment nor example for but the rather bears witness against but who hath the spirit and walks by that rule sees you and judges you who are out of the life of the Scriptures in the life that is contrary and with the spirit of God are you reproved in all your wayes of darknesse and error And whereas you queried concerning the light within we do say that Christ the second A●am lighteneth all mankind that be come into the world and this light John bare witness of and it shined in darkness and the darkness comprehended it not and that was it that enlightened every man that cometh into the world and this light brings all to receive Christ that doth believe and they that believe not this light is their condemnation and though you stumble at this stumbling stone as your Fathers the Jews did yet unto us that do believe Christ the light of the world is precious and all that comes to the knowledge of God must come to the true knowledge by the light that shines 〈…〉 hearts for it is the light that shines in the heart that gives the knowledge of God and although you wise builders do stumble at the foundation yet it will break you to pieces and confound you utterly for the light is risen in the hearts of many which light gives them the knowledge of God and the knowledge of you and all your false wayes of error and brings men to depart from them all and to follow the Lord in righteousness and so every man is lightened that they may believe and they that believe and walk in the light shall be saved but they that believe not but hate the light shall be condemned and this is their condemnation that light is come into the world and into their hearts and as for you you are but shallow men for you want the knowledge of God and truth stands over you though you oppose it and it will grow to a Mountain where all the Righteous shall be refreshed and the Lord is begun to work in the earth he hath set his hand to pull down Babylon and there shall not one stone be left upon another and all her Merchandise shall fail and her strong holds shall be broken down and all her Merchants shall howl and lament therefore now consider it ye Leaders of the people the day of the visitation is now but it will suddenly be shut up with the night of darkness upon you and you will be wounded and you can never be healed you will be ruined and can never be revived This is from a lover of your Souls EDWARD BURROUGH Something after AND now you Priests the black Clergy of England who count your selves Orthodox men sound able Ministers of the Gospell of Christ know and consider and let it be known to and considred by all people that we slander you not nor do you no wrong in disowning you to be the Ministers of Christ and in comparing you to the black bloody Popish trait your