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that_o believe_v in_o he_o not_o only_o while_o the_o apostle_n live_v therefore_o there_o shall_v always_o be_v some_o in_o the_o world_n without_o interruption_n that_o shall_v believe_v in_o he_o this_o be_v but_o a_o loose_a consequence_n i_o grant_v the_o conclusion_n or_o consequent_a that_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o church_n always_o but_o i_o deny_v that_o therefore_o there_o shall_v always_o be_v one_o because_o our_o saviour_n promise_v to_o be_v with_o it_o whensoever_o it_o be_v put_v case_n our_o saviour_n have_v thus_o speak_v i_o will_v be_v with_o you_o in_o your_o persecution_n all_o the_o day_n even_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n may_v a_o man_n reasonable_o conclude_v from_o hence_o that_o therefore_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v always_o persecute_v without_o any_o interruption_n or_o ease_v one_o day_n from_o persecution_n such_o be_v your_o consequence_n and_o as_o such_o insufficient_a to_o prove_v your_o assertion_n a._n d._n §._o 3._o second_o i_o prove_v the_o same_o out_o of_o a_o other_o promise_n or_o prophesy_v of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n to_o his_o church_n wherein_o he_o say_v porte_fw-fr inferninon_fw-la praevalebunt_fw-la adversus_fw-la eam_fw-la the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o 16._o prevail_v against_o it_o for_o how_o be_v it_o true_a that_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v if_o they_o have_v prevail_v so_o much_o as_o utter_o to_o abolish_v the_o church_n or_o at_o least_o to_o banish_v it_o quite_o out_o of_o the_o world_n for_o so_o long_a a_o time_n grant_v therefore_o which_o every_o christian_a must_v needs_o grant_v that_o the_o prophecy_n &_o promise_n of_o our_o saviour_n be_v always_o fulfil_v and_o that_o they_o be_v unfallible_o true_a we_o may_v not_o doubt_v but_o that_o the_o church_n have_v ever_o be_v since_o christ_n his_o time_n and_o shall_v never_o cease_v to_o be_v in_o the_o world_n a._n w._n this_o proof_n be_v little_a or_o nothing_o better_a than_o the_o former_a thus_o you_o 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not_o perceive_v those_o thing_n which_o be_v of_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n for_o since_o none_o by_o the_o only_a power_n of_o natural_a wit_n which_o in_o understanding_n use_v the_o help_n of_o outward_a sense_n can_v obtain_v the_o supernatural_a knowledge_n of_o divine_a mystery_n which_o we_o believe_v by_o our_o faith_n neither_o do_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n who_o as_o the_o principal_a cause_n infuse_v this_o gift_n of_o faith_n into_o our_o soul_n ordinary_o instruct_v any_o man_n in_o the_o knowledge_n of_o true_a faith_n immediate_o by_o himself_o alone_o or_o by_o a_o angel_n send_v from_o heaven_n we_o must_v needs_o if_o we_o will_v have_v true_a faith_n seek_v first_o for_o that_o which_o it_o please_v almighty_a god_n to_o use_v as_o the_o ordinary_a instrument_n and_o as_o a_o necessary_a mean_n by_o which_o man_n may_v learn_v true_a faith_n the_o which_o be_v no_o other_o but_o the_o preach_n and_o teach_v of_o the_o true_a church_n according_a to_o that_o say_n 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that_o we_o may_v by_o it_o as_o a_o necessary_a and_o infallible_a mean_n learn_v true_a doctrine_n in_o all_o point_n which_o otherwise_o we_o can_v attain_v to_o therefore_o the_o true_a church_n be_v rather_o a_o mark_n to_o know_v true_a doctrine_n then_o true_a doctrine_n a_o mark_n to_o know_v the_o church_n by_o though_o the_o conclusion_n as_o i_o say_v be_v not_o direct_o to_o the_o question_n syllogism_n which_o be_v not_o comparative_a but_o simple_a whether_o true_a doctrine_n be_v a_o good_a mark_n to_o discern_v a_o true_a church_n by_o or_o no_o yet_o i_o will_v take_v it_o as_o it_o be_v and_o answer_v to_o the_o part_n of_o it_o your_o mayor_n in_o the_o antecedent_n may_v have_v a_o double_a meaning_n first_o that_o we_o can_v in_o any_o point_n learn_v true_a doctrine_n but_o by_o proposition_n the_o church_n and_o then_o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o true_a doctrine_n in_o the_o fundamental_a point_n of_o religion_n may_v be_v a_o good_a mark_n of_o the_o 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that_o visible_a company_n which_o profess_v the_o roman_a faith_n then_o he_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o strain_v his_o wit_n in_o study_v or_o to_o waste_v word_n in_o wrangle_v about_o particular_a point_n of_o controversy_n or_o to_o use_v any_o such_o troublesome_a and_o uncertain_a mean_n to_o find_v out_o the_o truth_n but_o may_v easy_o and_o most_o certain_o be_v instruct_v in_o all_o by_o only_o inquire_v and_o find_v out_o which_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n may_v easy_o do_v what_o be_v general_o hold_v by_o the_o church_n for_o truth_n in_o all_o particular_a point_n whereof_o they_o doubt_v a._n w._n if_o these_o few_o point_n be_v so_o convenient_a because_o in_o they_o all_o other_o be_v include_v why_o shall_v not_o our_o doctrine_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v as_o convenient_a by_o the_o same_o reason_n let_v we_o compare_v our_o assertion_n together_o the_o first_o of_o you_o be_v that_o a_o man_n must_v admit_v that_o there_o be_v a_o company_n of_o man_n on_o earth_n 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no_o man_n ever_o dream_v of_o viz._n that_o we_o common_o build_v our_o faith_n upon_o our_o english_a translation_n so_o that_o the_o scripture_n may_v well_o be_v the_o rule_n of_o faith_n for_o aught_o that_o you_o have_v say_v against_o it_o concern_v the_o first_o property_n of_o certain_a truth_n which_o it_o be_v blasphemy_n to_o deny_v of_o the_o scripture_n for_o the_o second_o that_o the_o rule_n must_v be_v easy_a to_o understand_v i_o have_v show_v that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o that_o condition_n and_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v easy_a in_o matter_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n in_o the_o last_o point_n of_o the_o scripture_n defect_n touch_v many_o thing_n that_o must_v needs_o be_v believe_v you_o do_v both_o wrong_a god_n in_o make_v his_o word_n write_v so_o unperfect_a and_o by_o a_o foolish_a craft_n instead_o of_o prove_v that_o the_o scripture_n contain_v not_o all_o matter_n of_o faith_n needful_a to_o salvation_n undertake_v to_o show_v that_o 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man_n of_o any_o discretion_n last_o of_o all_o he_o 29._o bewray_v himself_o to_o be_v a_o counterfeit_n by_o speak_v of_o meletius_n as_o one_o dead_a long_o before_o who_o live_v in_o his_o time_n &_o overlive_v he_o as_o it_o be_v manifest_a by_o 8._o the_o ecclesiastical_a history_n but_o admit_v the_o book_n be_v basils_n what_o be_v there_o in_o it_o to_o prove_v that_o all_o point_n of_o doctrine_n which_o appertain_v to_o true_a christian_a faith_n be_v not_o express_o set_v down_o in_o scripture_n this_o author_n say_v that_o we_o must_v believe_v oradition_n what_o in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n there_o be_v no_o such_o word_n in_o he_o he_o speak_v of_o outward_a carriage_n in_o ceremony_n and_o phrase_n of_o speech_n the_o question_n 29._o in_o that_o part_n of_o his_o treatise_n be_v of_o the_o preposition_n with_o that_o be_v to_o speak_v that_o every_o man_n may_v understand_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o say_v in_o the_o church_n service_n and_o otherwise_o glory_n be_v to_o the_o father_n and_o to_o the_o son_n with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n or_o whether_o we_o must_v needs_o say_v and_o to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n not_o with_o for_o this_o speech_n that_o author_n plead_v tradition_n do_v we_o deny_v any_o such_o matter_n or_o do_v we_o not_o acknowledge_v the_o liberty_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n in_o such_o matter_n who_o see_v not_o that_o our_o custom_n now_o be_v to_o say_v glory_n be_v to_o the_o father_n to_o the_o son_n and_o to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n not_o that_o thereby_o we_o condemn_v the_o other_o kind_n of_o speech_n but_o because_o in_o matter_n leave_v to_o our_o liberty_n we_o take_v that_o which_o seem_v fit_a 61._o epiphanius_n speak_v of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a which_o have_v no_o warrant_n of_o scripture_n be_v glad_a to_o help_v himself_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o tradition_n tell_v we_o that_o some_o thing_n must_v be_v hold_v by_o tradition_n and_o not_o all_o take_v out_o of_o the_o scripture_n but_o epiphanius_n do_v not_o say_v that_o this_o be_v a_o doctrine_n or_o action_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n a._n d._n §._o 6._o some_o object_n against_o this_o conclusion_n that_o place_n of_o s._n paul_n omnis_fw-la scriptura_fw-la divinitùs_fw-la inspirata_fw-la utilis_fw-la est_fw-la ad_fw-la docendum_fw-la etc._n etc._n ut_fw-la perfectus_fw-la sit_fw-la homo_fw-la etc._n etc._n but_o this_o place_n prove_v nothing_o against_o that_o which_o i_o have_v say_v for_o it_o say_v not_o that_o scripture_n alone_o be_v sufficient_a to_o instruct_v a_o man_n to_o perfection_n but_o that_o it_o be_v profitable_a for_o this_o purpose_n as_o it_o be_v indeed_o and_o the_o rather_o because_o it_o commend_v unto_o we_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n which_o as_o i_o shall_v afterward_o prove_v be_v sufficient_a now_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o to_o be_v profitable_a and_o to_o be_v of_o itself_o alone_o sufficient_a be_v far_o different_a thing_n stone_n and_o timber_n be_v profitable_a 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eritis_fw-la on_o who_o all_o man_n gaze_v think_v not_o therefore_o say_v our_o saviour_n that_o you_o shall_v lie_v hide_v in_o a_o corner_n you_o shall_v be_v the_o light_n of_o the_o world_n and_o therefore_o see_v that_o you_o live_v unblamable_o and_o become_v not_o a_o offence_n to_o other_o man_n who_o can_v gather_v from_o hence_o the_o consequence_n of_o your_o proposition_n if_o the_o church_n be_v not_o visible_a to_o all_o man_n at_o all_o time_n it_o be_v not_o ordain_v by_o our_o saviour_n to_o be_v the_o light_n of_o the_o world_n your_o second_o proof_n concern_v the_o rule_n and_o mean_n be_v no_o less_o insufficient_a if_o the_o church_n at_o any_o time_n can_v not_o be_v know_v of_o man_n you_o must_v needs_o mean_v of_o every_o particular_a man_n if_o you_o will_v speak_v to_o the_o purpose_n it_o can_v at_o all_o time_n be_v a_o mean_n by_o which_o the_o truth_n may_v be_v know_v to_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n this_o be_v the_o consequence_n i_o deny_v before_o 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scripture_n to_o my_o answer_n in_o the_o five_o chapter_n the_o proof_n of_o your_o consequence_n about_o which_o you_o labour_v like_o a_o man_n that_o clap_v plaster_n upon_o plaster_n on_o a_o sound_a place_n be_v altogether_o needless_a and_o not_o worth_a the_o examine_n save_v only_o that_o in_o the_o last_o clause_n thereof_o you_o confident_o harp_n upon_o the_o former_a string_n which_o sound_v nothing_o but_o the_o necessity_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n to_o salvation_n but_o the_o apostle_n 15._o where_o he_o show_v what_o be_v of_o necessity_n to_o faith_n neither_o mention_v nor_o any_o way_n imply_v a_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o require_v a_o send_n of_o some_o to_o preach_v and_o that_o may_v be_v from_o god_n immediate_o not_o by_o succession_n 1._o in_o and_o by_o man_n do_v not_o our_o saviour_n christ_n preach_v bring_z many_o to_o faith_n in_o he_o and_o so_o to_o salvation_n do_v not_o peter_n 41._o convert_v 3000._o at_o one_o sermon_n do_v not_o the_o apostle_n paul_n plant_v many_o church_n be_v any_o of_o these_o a_o visible_a church_n or_o do_v the_o people_n to_o who_o they_o preach_v either_o seek_v to_o they_o as_o to_o a_o visible_a church_n or_o believe_v that_o they_o deliver_v because_o they_o be_v send_v by_o a_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v true_a that_o no_o man_n ordinary_o can_v believe_v unless_o he_o hear_v no_o man_n can_v hear_v unless_o there_o be_v one_o to_o preach_v to_o he_o no_o man_n can_v preach_v unless_o he_o be_v send_v but_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o necessity_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n look_v through_o the_o whole_a history_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o see_v how_o many_o example_n you_o can_v find_v of_o any_o that_o be_v but_o so_o much_o as_o occasion_v to_o believe_v by_o the_o mean_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n the_o same_o of_o our_o saviour_n miracle_n draw_v many_o to_o the_o hear_n of_o he_o not_o the_o knowledge_n of_o any_o visible_a church_n 5._o cornelius_n a_o 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church_n be_v always_o the_o first_o step_n to_o salvation_n though_o sometime_o it_o may_v be_v the_o first_o occasion_n of_o hear_v and_o believe_v a._n d._n §._o 4._o three_o if_o the_o universal_a church_n of_o christ_n shall_v for_o any_o space_n of_o time_n be_v invisible_a it_o shall_v for_o that_o space_n cease_v to_o profess_v outward_o that_o faith_n which_o in_o heart_n it_o do_v believe_v for_o if_o it_o do_v outward_o profess_v how_o shall_v it_o not_o by_o this_o profession_n be_v make_v visible_a and_o know_v but_o if_o the_o universal_a church_n shall_v for_o such_o a_o time_n fail_v to_o profess_v the_o faith_n hell_n gate_n contrary_a to_o christ_n promise_n do_v mighty_o prevail_v against_o it_o for_o be_v it_o not_o a_o mighty_a prevail_a that_o the_o whole_a church_n shall_v fail_v in_o a_o thing_n so_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n as_o we_o know_v outward_a profession_n of_o faith_n to_o be_v necessary_a both_o by_o that_o of_o our_o saviour_n qui_fw-la negaverit_fw-la i_o coram_fw-la hominibus_fw-la 10._o ego_fw-la negabo_fw-la illum_fw-la coram_fw-la patre_fw-la meo_fw-la he_o that_o shall_v deny_v i_o before_o man_n i_o will_v deny_v he_o before_o my_o father_n and_o qui_fw-la 9_o i_o erubuerit_fw-la &_o sermon_n meos_fw-la hunc_fw-la filius_fw-la hominis_fw-la erubescet_fw-la he_o that_o shall_v be_v ashamed_a of_o i_o and_o of_o my_o word_n he_o the_o son_n of_o man_n will_v be_v ashamed_a of_o and_o by_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n cord_n creditur_fw-la ad_fw-la iustitiam_fw-la over_o fit_a confessio_fw-la ad_fw-la salutem_fw-la with_o heart_n we_o believe_v 10._o to_o justice_n with_o mouth_n we_o confess_v to_o salvation_n which_o place_n learned_a man_n interpret_v to_o signify_v that_o profession_n of_o faith_n be_v sometime_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o they_o say_v further_o that_o this_o sometime_o be_v so_o oft_o as_o either_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n or_o the_o profit_n of_o our_o neighbour_n do_v of_o necessity_n 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of_o god_n now_o the_o same_o church_n or_o party_n which_o assure_v we_o that_o the_o gospel_n be_v true_a may_v notwithstanding_o err_v in_o the_o meaning_n of_o some_o point_n in_o it_o and_o a_o man_n may_v discern_v these_o error_n by_o the_o light_n which_o shine_v in_o the_o scripture_n thus_o acknowledge_v first_o it_o be_v here_o confess_v by_o yourself_o that_o augustine_n speech_n be_v not_o of_o all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o true_a doctrine_n but_o only_o as_o i_o say_v of_o know_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n for_o so_o only_o you_o reason_n out_o of_o it_o and_o thereby_o show_v plain_o to_o all_o that_o will_v see_v that_o it_o can_v prove_v the_o matter_n for_o which_o you_o bring_v it_o second_o you_o proceed_v far_o to_o prove_v the_o point_n by_o a_o other_o reason_n but_o faulty_a like_o the_o former_a if_o say_v you_o without_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n we_o can_v not_o have_v be_v infallible_o sure_a that_o there_o be_v any_o 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your_o meaning_n be_v that_o we_o can_v not_o have_v know_v this_o certain_o but_o by_o give_v credit_n to_o the_o report_n of_o the_o church_n as_o a_o certain_a truth_n first_o for_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n to_o salvation_n it_o have_v be_v have_v and_o may_v be_v have_v without_o any_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n at_o all_o take_v the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n as_o you_o do_v for_o the_o preach_n of_o man_n public_o authorise_v to_o this_o duty_n by_o a_o company_n of_o man_n so_o qualify_v as_o you_o before_o describe_v your_o church_n i_o shall_v need_v no_o better_a proof_n then_o to_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n again_o of_o those_o nation_n many_o and_o great_a who_o attain_v to_o faith_n and_o salvation_n by_o the_o teach_n of_o the_o apostle_n several_o without_o any_o such_o argument_n of_o the_o church_n absolute_a authority_n second_o take_v the_o gospel_n for_o the_o 4._o book_n of_o the_o evangelist_n i_o answer_v that_o there_o may_v be_v true_a 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and_o the_o knowledge_n of_o logic_n with_o all_o those_o hard_a and_o worthy_a question_n of_o the_o soul_n and_o of_o god_n himself_o as_o far_o as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v conceive_v of_o by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n if_o you_o will_v say_v that_o we_o learn_v these_o thing_n partly_o by_o read_v and_o hear_v i_o answer_v both_o that_o we_o find_v out_o many_o thing_n in_o philosophy_n of_o ourselves_o by_o study_n without_o any_o help_n of_o sense_n which_o rather_o be_v a_o hindrance_n to_o the_o soul_n in_o the_o search_n of_o such_o point_n and_o also_o that_o the_o knowledge_n we_o have_v of_o divine_a mystery_n be_v first_o bring_v to_o we_o and_o continual_o increase_v in_o we_o by_o the_o same_o sense_n of_o see_v and_o hear_v else_o be_v your_o church_n as_o good_a be_v without_o those_o preacher_n you_o so_o much_o brag_v of_o the_o other_o part_n of_o your_o minor_n that_o faith_n can_v be_v have_v but_o by_o the_o teach_n of_o the_o true_a church_n you_o prove_v or_o rather_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v in_o this_o sort_n if_o no_o man_n can_v believe_v without_o he_o hear_v nor_o hear_v without_o one_o preach_v and_o no_o man_n can_v preach_v except_o he_o be_v send_v than_o faith_n can_v be_v have_v but_o by_o the_o teach_n of_o the_o true_a church_n but_o no_o man_n can_v believe_v without_o he_o hear_v nor_o hear_v without_o one_o preach_v and_o no_o man_n can_v preach_v without_o he_o be_v send_v therefore_o faith_n can_v be_v have_v but_o by_o the_o teach_n of_o the_o true_a church_n i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n of_o your_o mayor_n and_o affirm_v that_o faith_n may_v be_v have_v without_o the_o teach_n of_o the_o true_a church_n though_o proposition_n no_o man_n can_v believe_v without_o he_o hear_v etc._n etc._n for_o 3._o i_o have_v show_v that_o some_o country_n have_v be_v bring_v to_o belief_n without_o any_o such_o teach_n by_o authority_n from_o the_o true_a church_n i_o also_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o my_o answer_n to_o your_o minor_n that_o place_n of_o the_o apostle_n concern_v not_o the_o ordinary_a ministry_n assumption_n of_o the_o word_n but_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o mean_n of_o salvation_n which_o as_o 14._o the_o apostle_n true_o say_v can_v never_o have_v be_v think_v on_o by_o any_o man_n if_o it_o have_v not_o please_v god_n to_o give_v notice_n thereof_o to_o the_o world_n by_o man_n appoint_v and_o authorise_v to_o that_o purpose_n by_o himself_o but_o of_o this_o place_n and_o matter_n i_o speak_v sufficient_o before_o in_o this_o and_o 3._o in_o a_o former_a chapter_n a._n d._n §._o 4._o three_o true_a faith_n be_v include_v in_o the_o true_a church_n and_o as_o it_o be_v enclose_v in_o her_o belly_n as_o saint_n austin_n say_v upon_o those_o word_n of_o the_o psalm_n erraverunt_fw-la ab_fw-la utero_fw-la locuti_fw-la sunt_fw-la falsa_fw-la in_o ventre_n ecclesiae_fw-la 57_o say_v he_o veritas_fw-la manet_fw-la quisquis_fw-la ab_fw-la hoc_fw-la ventre_n separatus_fw-la fuerit_fw-la necesse_fw-la est_fw-la ut_fw-la falsa_fw-la loquatur_fw-la truth_n remain_v in_o the_o belly_n of_o the_o church_n whosoever_o be_v separate_v to_o wit_n by_o difference_n in_o doctrine_n from_o this_o belly_n of_o the_o church_n must_v needs_o speak_v false_a therefore_o like_v as_o if_o a_o man_n have_v gold_n in_o his_o belly_n we_o must_v first_o find_v the_o man_n before_o we_o can_v come_v to_o see_v the_o gold_n itself_o so_o we_o must_v first_o by_o other_o mark_n find_v out_o the_o true_a church_n which_o have_v the_o gold_n of_o true_a faith_n hide_v in_o her_o belly_n before_o we_o come_v to_o see_v the_o gold_n of_o true_a faith_n itself_o sith_o especial_o we_o can_v see_v it_o unless_o she_o open_v her_o mouth_n and_o deliver_v it_o unto_o we_o and_o that_o we_o can_v be_v spiritual_o blind_a certain_o know_v it_o to_o be_v true_a and_o not_o counterfeit_v but_o by_o give_v credit_n to_o her_o testimony_n of_o it_o according_a as_o the_o same_o saint_n austin_n say_v euangelio_fw-la non_fw-la crederem_fw-la nisi_fw-la i_o ecclesiae_fw-la authoritas_fw-la commoverer_n i_o shall_v not_o believe_v the_o gospel_n 5._o itself_o unless_o i_o be_v move_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o if_o we_o have_v not_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n how_o shall_v we_o have_v be_v infallible_o sure_a that_o there_o be_v any_o gospel_n at_o all_o or_o how_o shall_v we_o have_v know_v that_o those_o book_n which_o â—eare_z title_n of_o the_o gospel_n according_a to_o saint_n matthew_n mark_v luke_n and_o john_n be_v true_a canonical_a scripture_n rather_o than_o those_o book_n which_o be_v write_v in_o the_o name_n of_o nicodemus_n and_o saint_n thomas_n bearing_z the_o same_o title_n or_o inscription_n of_o gospel_n a._n w._n your_o three_o reason_n be_v thus_o to_o be_v frame_v that_o which_o be_v shut_v up_o in_o the_o belly_n