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kingdom_n	john_n	sir_n	thomas_n	5,454	5	9.8573	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16170	A courteous conference with the English Catholikes Romane about the six articles ministred vnto the seminarie priestes, wherein it is apparantly proued by their owne diuinitie, and the principles of their owne religion, that the Pope cannot depose her Maiestie, or release her subiectes of their alleageance vnto her. And finally, that the bull of Pius Quiutus [sic] pronounced against her Maiestie is of no force eyther in lawe or conscience, all Catholicke scruples to the contrarie beeing throughly and perfectly cleared and resolued, and many memoriall matters exactly discussed, which haue not beene handled by man heeretofore. Written by Iohn Bishop a recusant papist.	Bishop, John, d. 1613.; Frewen, John, 1558-1628.	1598 (1598)	STC 3092; ESTC S102284	61,282	90

famous Cardinall Taietan● that doth hold and maintaine that the Pope cannot erre in the definition of faith yet doth affirme in his commentaries vpon Mathew that he may erre in iudgement whether a thing be lawfull or noe And therefore he doth not accept the de●rees of the Pope in his controuersie of diuotee for definitiue of faith but for iudiciall And in iudgementes the Popes themselues saith he doe confesse that they haue erred and so then may also a generall counsell erre in iudgements by your owne rules if perhaps any iudgement be to be founde of the counsell of the Laterane against Raimond the Earle of Tolouse for not purging his country of the Albigenses Canons of counsels binde not but where they are receiued Nowe this first scruple beeing taken away let vs descend vnto our next article and conclusion that the Canon doth not binde vs in this realme who is so ignorant that knoweth not that all decrees and Canons of generall counsels are not obserued and kept in euerie country neyther doe thy binde the breakers of them in conscience As for example there was a decree made by the counsell at Nice that deacons shall not sit aboue priestes but yet we doe see at Rome the Deacon Cardinalles doe sitte aboue Bishoppes that be no Cardinalles Likewise in Sexto Constantinapolitano in Trullo there is forbidden kneeling in praier on the Sundayes and soe likewise all the time betweene Easter and Whitsontide And also that no man shall fast the Saturnedaies in Lent but the quite contrarie of both Canons was most vsuall in this lande and thought most deuoute when the Pope was in his highest prime heere Moreouer it is the common opinion of all the Canonistes that the decrees and Canons reformatiue doe not else where binde but where they haue beene receiued and therefore our seminary priestes doe holde that the Catholickes Romane of this Realme nor yet those in France be not bounde to obserue the Canons of the late counsell at Trent because they haue beene publikly receiued in neyther of the kingdomes This then beeing soe if I can prooue that this Canon of deposing of princes was neuer receiued in this Realme then haue I conuinced that it doth binde no man of this Realme in conscience And this will I first prooue by circumstance of the time and secondly because diuers other 〈◊〉 for downe in the same counsell were neuer obserued 〈◊〉 as for this Canon The Canon neuer receiued proued by circumstance of time it neuer came in practise heare ●ntill Kinge Henrie the eyght First it is certaine that the counsell at Laterane was helde in Anno Domini 1215. and in the seuenth yeare of the raigne of Kinge Io●n and in the time of the bloodie broyles of the Barons against the kinge it can not bee denyed but that the kinge had three Embassadours there and likelie enough it is that they subscribed and consented as the rest of the Embassadours did for their master sought all the meanes he coulde to please the Pope that hee might haue his helpe against the Barons and so indeede hee stoode his fast friende and at the counsell accursed the Barons suspended the Archbishoppe of Canterburie Stephan Lang●●● for taking parte with them and for the same quarrell would not allowe his brother Simon Elected Archbishoppe of yorke so that there is no doubte but the greatest parte of the realme were as readie to displease the Pope as their prince was to please him for the chiefest cause that moued the king to sende Embassadours vnto the counsell was saith Mathews of Paris to procure the Popes curse against the Barons These wofull warres continued to the death of kinge Iohn soe that no parliament was or coulde be helde whereby this Canon could be receiued For if Sir Thomas More in his debellation doth truely say that kinge Iohn coulde not make his kingdome tributarie to the Pope without the consente of the parliament much lesse coulde he giue the Pope authority to giue the realme away God knowes to whom it should please him or that Christian that was able to winne it by fine force for according to the rule of the Canon Lawe Quod omnes tangit ab omnibus debet approbari that which toucheth all men ought to be allowed and approued and confirmed by all wherefore the Lord chiefe Iustice in the first yeare of the raigne of Henry the seuenth as we doo reade in the reportes of the same yeare Termino Hillarii Chap. 10. affirmed that all the Barrons vnto the Pope that after a sorte commaunded Edwarde the first to surcease from warring on the Scottes that helde of him That although the king woulde giue away the right he had to Scotlands yet for all that it shoulde not be soe because that hee that is king of England is alwaies chiefe Lorde of Scotland And if the king of this Realme cannot of himselfe dispose of a thing annexed and incorporated to the crowne of this kingdome will any wise man be of opinion that king Iohn coulde dispose of the crowne of England of himselfe without the assent and consent of the states and ordaine forfeytures thereof to forreyners and strangers And although I can easily be perswaded that the subiectes for the extreame hatred that they bare vnto their present prince The iniquitie of the Canon woulde lightly be wonne to accept of causes to be discharged of their alleageanc to their king yet can I hardly be induced to beleeue that they coulde suffer themselues their wiues and children landes and liuinges goods and country to be exposed to the sacke and spoyle of all their neighbours yea of all Christendome if they shoulde vnhappily happe to haue a wicked king And also well might they satisfie the will and intent of the counsell without any such pernicious perill of there whole state and also retaine still their ancient honour and liberty if they themselues did make choise of the Physition that should purge them if that the law of God had not vtterly forbidden thē to rebell frō their prince were he neuer so wicked and not foolishly bind themselues to take a purgation of they know not whom perhaps vnhappily of such a one 〈◊〉 ●●te likely to purge them of ill humors so extreamely that he would destroy the habit of their bodye And hereof ●o saide an example they neded not to seeke far For as the very same instant they had a very plaine proofe thereof in France where the earle of Tolowse was depriued of his earledome because he would not purge his dominions of the Albigenses and the earledome giuen by the Pope vnto Simon the Earle of Monssort For that I may omit how bloudily Monssort executed the Popes mandate being generall of the Croysy against the Albigenses in sacking the Cities murdering the men and women how he did also vnder that pretence assaulte sacke cityes that were not one whit infected with that sect and slew in one battell twentie thousand

the superexcellent powers not only for wrath but also for conscience as we that are bounde to payment of tribute Neyther let vs so behaue our selues that we for our wickednes and lewde factes doe deadly hate the lawe and looke for the reuenging sword but rather so leade our liues that we may get praise of the power and magistrate And then after he hath very eloquently shewed by many similitudes that they ought not to blame the harmlesse of the sword but to impute the smart thereof vnto their owne faultinesse he leaueth as he saith the subiectes and turneth his speach vnto the Emperour and the gouernours for ye must vnderstand that this oration was pronounced in the presence of the people of Nazanse trembling for feare of the Emperours great displeasure and also of the angry Emperour and his officers least he should be thought these are his words to deale altogether partially eyther not seeming to haue the like care ouer them to whome he ought more hoofully to looke vnto as they that could do most either harme or good as he had of the other inferiour sorte or else to haue lost through feare or shame the freedom that he had from Christ not daring to admonish them of their duetie because of their great dignity and power And then he vseth the words alleadged by our aduersaries what wil ye not be cōtent c. But I doe not doubt but your maiestie wi●l take this my free speaking in good part as a holy sheepe of my holy flocke and a weaneling of the great sheepeheard And then he vseth very effectuall reasons to moue him to mercy and finally falleth to pitifull obtestations by his owne hoary head his immaculate priesthood which the Angels c. by Christ his bitter passion c. in most suppliant sort without any one word that any whit sauoureth or soundeth of authority power or commaund wisely and godly teaching the subiectes duetifull obedience and the Emperour and his officers mercy and moderation in gouernment Furthermore the better to boult out the trueth in the controuersy I thinke it will not be amisse to search out whether in the old lawe the high priest who was a type and figure of Christ and head of all the priestes and had the supreme ministration of the mysteries of God The high priest subiect to the temporall magistrate and in whose name of Pontifex the Bishop of Rome hath succeeded was subiect vnto the ciuill magistrate or noe And that he was is plainely proued in the 2. Cap. of 3. Kings where Salomon deposeth Abiather the high priest of his office and confirmeth him into Anathotb because he had gone about to make Adoniah King and also told him that he had deserued to die but he would not put him to death because he had borne the Arke of the Lord God before his father Dauid and had beene a continuall partaker of all his fathers troubles Then if Salomon might lawfully execute the high priest for treason there is no doubt but that the high priestes were subiect vnto the kinges as vnto their soueraignes But although I will passe ouer in silence the putting to death of the high priest Achimelech and Azarias by Saul and Ioas because they will cauill they were tyrannicall yer I will stay a little vpon the suppliant speach of Achimelech because it argueth subiection in the speaker Saul vpon the occasion of Doeg sent for Achimelech the sonne of Achitob 1. Reg. 22. 19. Cap. all the hole howse of his father being priestes which were in Nob who came euery man vnto the king and Saul saide Listen thou sonne of Achitob who answered I am heere my Lord. And Saul saide why hast thou and the sonne of Ishai conspired against me and hast giuen him being a traitour and so continuing to this day bread and a sword and hast asked counsaile of God for him that he might rise vp against me And Achimelech answering the king thus spake Let this crime be farre from me neyther let the king suspect any such thing against his bondman nor of any man of the whole howse of my father For thy bondman knew neither lesse nor much of this matter c. Doth there not appeare in these wordes almost a seruile subiection of the high priestes vnto the king for by what baser terme can he call himselfe then his bondman or by what higher and more soueraigne name could he speake vnto the king then calling him his Lord a word that doth signifie the prince to haue his subiectes in such seruilitie that Octauian the Emperour that did accept the names of Augustus or diuine of father of his country c. to haue his name sworne by and his images sacrificed vnto as a God 19 Cap. 2. Crome Yet wold neuer admit as Suetonius and Dion doe affirme the title of Lord but abhorred it as reprochfull although now time and custome haue mollified the worde But that the high priest had nothing to din matters of state we haue it set downe in flat wordes in the 19. of the second Paralip or the Chronicles where this we doe reade But Amarias the priest and your high priest shall be president or chiefe in those thinges which doe appertaine to God but Zebadias the sonne of Ishmaell who is captaine of the house of Iuda shall be ouer those workes which doe belong vnto the king But now that we haue sufficiently proued the subiection of the high priest of the Iewes let vs come to Christ himselfe by pretence of being whose vicar and deputie in earth the Pope claimeth this prowde prerogatiue of pearching ouer princes Christ no earthlie ki●g and discusse whether that he as Christ and Messias for I thinke the Pope doth not chalenge to be Gods but Christes vicar was an earthly Monarch or noe that he was none it is apparantly prooued by his refusing to giue iudgement on a woman accused of adulterie Iohn 8. and also by denying himse●fe to bee a competent iudge betweene two brothers that contended about an inheritance And finally in that he confessed vnto Pilate in expresse words that his kingdome was not of this world Iohn 18. As for the paying of foure drachmes for himselfe Peter at Capernaum I thinke with Theophylactus and some other that it was for the halfe sycle which is two drachmes due vnto the Lord for euerie man that was twentie yeares of age as we reade in Exodus rather then for tribute due to the Emperour because mee thinketh it doth better agree with Christes interrogation to Peter what thinkest thou Peter of whome doe the kinges of the earth take tribute of their owne children or of strangers and he sayde of strangers Iesus sayde vnto him then are the children free As though he shoulde haue sayde This expositi●n is vtterly repugnant to the meaning and purpose of Christ as the godly reader doth well vnderstād If Kinges children doe not pay tribute to their fathers

worde saith hee signifieth also to gouerne It doth indeede properlie signifie to keepe sheepe as we terme it wherein wee include not onelie the feeding of them but also the care of looking to them that they take noe harme the dressing of them when they be ill and all other thinges belonging to the charge and duetie of a sheepehearde and properlie no other signification hath it but by a Metaphore to shewe with howe greate care mildenesse and lenitie kinges ought to gouerne their subiectes Homer and Plato doe often call kinges sheepeheardes of the people and so likewise the sacred scriptures In the twentith of the Actes we haue the same wordes where we reade Therefore looke vnto your selues and the whole flocke wherein the holie Ghost hath placed you Bishoppes and ouerseers in greeke poimaine the Church of God which he hath purchased him with his bloode Nowe that the Apostles or any Bishoppes had any secular power Pighius himselfe doth denie as long as the temporall princes had not receiued the Gospell so that this worde can by no meanes importe anie earthly superioritie And in this Oration Paule doth plainely declare what kinde of kingdome Christes is when hee saith to gouerne the Church of God which he purchased with his bloode for he purchased none with his bloode but t●●s spirituall kingdome for as GOD hee was possessed o● the Empyre of the whole worlde from the beginning But the place of binding and losing we haue examined alreadie and proued that it cannot be vnderstoode otherwise then Christ himselfe doth interpret it in the twenteth of Iohn whose sinnes ye shall remitte are remitted and whose sinnes yee shall retaine are retained and a receiuing into the Church and kingdome of heauen and a shutting out of it And therefore he saith whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen and not shall be bounde in earth least any man should dreame that he gaue Peter secular power ouer earthly Empires and that all the commandements and ordinances and decrees of his successors touching worldly matters should be receiued and kept throughout the whole world Neither if the Pope had any such authoritie giuen him by any generall Counsell A general counsell cannot depose Princes as I am assured he hath not for as for the canon made in the counsell of Laterane we will anone make a large seuerall treatise thereof were it good and sufficient to binde all Princes to obedience because it lieth not in the power of a generall counsell to dispose of secular matters For seeing generall counsells doe altogether consist of persons ecclesiasticall and they doe allow noe temporall prince any voice therein and that all the Byshoppes that are assembled there do sit as Byshops spirituall Lords not as temporal that they be secular subiects not soueraignes that the kingdom of the Church is a distincte kingdom as al the Catholickes say from the kingdomes of the world It is as absurd to holde that they can makes lawes touching temporalities to be obserued of all temporall Princes vnder temporall paines as if a madde man would affirme that the assembly of the three states of France may ordaine statutes for the Queenes maiesty of England hir realme and that they are bound in conscience to obserue all lawes made there For doubtlesse the temporall and the ecclesiasticall kingdomes are as seuerall kingdomes as Englande France which haue more alliance together then the other two because they are both secular both bodilie both ruled by one sword but of the other the one is spirituall the other bodily the one of the worlde the other of heauen the one swayed by the ciuill and materiall sworde ●he other by the spirituall the one slaying the soule the other the body But now I would not haue any fond man to imagine that I doe goe about to spoile the temporall prince of his high prerogatiue in ordaining of holsome lawes for the maintenance of the true faith of Christ and the sincere obseruation of all the rest of his holy commandementes the which I doe thinke him bound in conscience to doe but that I doe firmely beleeue and openly professe that by the right giuen him by God he may punish all persons both ecclesiasticall and temporall within his dominions that shall offend either in faith or manners by fine imprisonment banishment confiscation of landes and goodes attainder of blood death or finally any other temporall paines as the noble princes of this land haue alwaies vsed to doe And therefore Iustice Brian in Decimo of Henry the seauenth doth call the King a mixt person for he is saith Brian a person vnited with the priests of holy Church But I denie him the administration of gods holy sacraments and the exercise of the spirituall sworde which I doe appropriate vnto the ecclesiasticall officers Wherefore much lesse can the Byshoppes in a generall counsell giue away the crownes of their Kinges seeing according to the afore rehearsed rule of the Canon law noe man can giue that right vnto another which he hath not himselfe But if there were ordained a bodie politicke of all the Christian princes and states what they beeing assembled in a counsell generall might doe is annother question the which we will leaue to bee disputed of them that shall see this happe institution And in the meane time they must pardon vs if we doe not lightly beleeue that the Pope hath power to depose Princes seeing wee can finde no warrant therefore neither in the scriptures the auncient counsells the olde fathers the practise of the Church of God neither before Christ neither seauen hundreth years after him although there raigned many Idolatrous hereticall and wicked Princes Of the Iewish Kinges verye few were good but rather such men as GOD had streightly commaunded that they shoulde not spare if they were their Brothers or such a friende as hee looued as dearely as his owne soule but that his hand should bee first vppon him to stone him to death and yet wee doe not reade that any one of them was deposed by the high Priestes or his subiectes armed against him by them And yet were they so zealous men of their dignitie that they would in noe wise suffer the King to vsurpe ought vppon him in so much that one of them openly withstoode Ozias the King The history of king Ozias handled that woulde vnlawfully execute his office in offring incense vnto GOD neither doth the expelling of this King out of the temple by rhe Priestes because God had for his proude part stricken him with leprosie and that thereupon hee sequestred himselfe from companie and left the gouernement of matters of state vnto his sonne prooue ought against the prerogatiue of Princes The text saith 2. Coro 26.20 that they caused hastily to depart thence he was euen compelled to goe out as the English authour of the ecclesiasticall discipline doth inferre For hee was not expelled out of

displeasures of himselfe his friendes and vassalls At the same time the french king Philip le Beau had spoyled Edward the fi●st king of England iniuriously of the greatest parte of Guienne and also Guy the Eare of Fuaunders almost of his whole Earldome and was not deposed therefore The cause is apparant Sicily was held of the Church of Rome and so was neither Guienne nor Flaunders But although he escaped scot-free for these wronges and the long detayning in prison the Earle of Flaunders and two of his sonnes yet he was depriued of his kingdome by Pope Boniface the eight Philip the faire for imprisoning of a french Bishop that rayled at him and menaced him when he coulde not winne him to grant to goe with an Army into the holy land on the which message the Pope had sent him vnto the king as saith Platina But the french Chronicles report that the king caused him to be apprehended at home at his owne house for that he vnderstoode that he vsed often to speake very ill of him and to rayle outragiously on hm and deliuered him vnto his primate the Bishop of Tolouse to punish him with his aduise The kingdome of France was giuen vnto Albert the Emperour perhappes for a reward of his wickednesse in slaying of his soueraigne Adolph the Emperour for other punishment I doe not finde that Pope did put him vnto therefore See Mun●ter cos●●●mog lib. 3. in Al. 2. But yet I doe not doubt but the fault was more heinous then emprisoning of a Bishop for rayling against his prince and Lord. Yea and that God did so account it he made it manifest vnto the worlde by his seuere punishment of all the conspiratours For Albert himselfe was murdered by his owne Cosen germane the Archbishop of Ments founde deade sitting in his chaire The Bishop Stasburge was slaine by a pesant at F●●●●nge in Brisgow The Earle of Linengen died ma●de The Earle of Sweibrucken was drowned in a riuer The Earle of Ochsenstein had his deaths wound in the battell And the Earle H●●gerloch was slaine on the way by Otho the Duke of Danao But to proceede Lewes th 12 of France was excommunicated denounced a scismatike and his kingdome and goods exposer for a common spoyle to all Christians and the like penalty pronounced on all them that did or should take his part or ayde him Lewes the twelfih And therefore Iohn the king of Nauarre lost his kingdome for procuring of a generall counsell to be called and held without the consent of the Pope against the Pope that there his infestious foe Iul●us the second might be deposed an other more frendly placed in his roome And doth not this altogether smell of priuate reuenge and not of charity But perhaps you will say it was a foule part of him that would be called the most Christian king to sow sedition and scisme throughout all Christendome for his owne priuate quarrell and that this doing of his was so ill thought of by most of the pri● 〈…〉 of Christendome that they entred therefore into league against him and had almost set him besides his saddle In truth I can neyther prayse the practise nor the pollicie of the French who sought to represse the iniurious attemptes of the Pope against him rather by colour of lawe to the disturbance of all Christendome then by armes and inuading the Popes territories as Philippe the moderne king of Spayne wisely did in the like case and fondely thought it lesse enuyous Anno Domini 556. and more agreeable vnto his surname of the most Christian king which his ancest●rs had purchasesed by defending the Popes and Peters patrimony with armes to rayse vp a scisme then to force the Pope to frindship by materiall force But that the Pope compelled him to this outrage all writers doe confesse For first contrary to the league made at Cambray betweene him the Emperour the French king the king Spaine and the Duke of Ferara against the Venetians who had encroched vpon thē all he hauing gotten all that he claimed ●ee Iouius ●n vita Al●hons ●●uiciardi●●o not onely made peace with the Venetians without the consent of his confederates but also excōmunicated and with armes enuaded the fast friend of the French the Duke of Ferara because that he not hauing yet recouered all his right of them would not cease to molest the Venetians And also he left no stone vnturned to turne the French out of Milan an Genna the which he at the length brought to passe And was not he then the author of all his tragedie Moreouer this Popes brothers sonne Duke of Vrbine cruelly murdered of emulation Alidosius a Bishop a Cardinall See Iouius ●n vit Alphons Guic. Boleslaw and Legate of Bologna almost in the Popes sight and was put to no penance therefore But Boleslaw the hardie king of Poland was depriued by Pope Gregorie the seuenth of his kingdome and also the country of the honour to haue a king in the which dishonour it continued 200 yeares f●●●●ying with his owne hande in his fury Stanislaw the Bishop of Craccow for excommunicating him yea and interdicting the whole Citie of Craccow to make him the more odious because he openly kept another mans wife and for adultery a thing which as it should seeme by Cromerus as common in Poland in those daies as the cart way Yea those noble women that were honest were forced to forsake there owne howses See Cromerus hist Pola lib. 4. for feare of force and rauishment yea and it was common in Italy and passed vnpunished in meaner men then princes But yet in verie trueth the kinges fact was verie foule and made worse by the furie of his fellowes that chopped in peeces the slayne corpes and cast it to the crowes And yet perhaps Dauid did almost all ill in defiling of a noble mans bed while he was in his seruice in the fielde and afterward commaunding him to be murdered for his amendes but so dealt not Bolislawe with Stanislaw and if the qualities of the persons be not equall then the manner of the doing doth ouermatch the one being done without any prouocation and of aduised malice the other vppon a greate ignominy vnwonted with kinges offered him and vpon a sodaine while his blood was hotte which seauen yeares continuall absence from his countrie in forraine warres a little before had ouerheated And yet Dauid lost not his Kingdome therefore Neither doe we reade of any realme interdicted for murdering of their Kinges whereof we haue almost infinite examples or any man deposed for intruding into them by such wickednesse vnlesse perhappes the murdered Prince were the Popes vassall Soe that this zeale in seuere punishing of princes for misusing them of the clergy I feare me may be imputed rather to a partiall fauour towardes them of their owne coate and done for their owne securitie then for zeale of Iustice Like as our Sargeants at

London are an hunded times more hotte to haue one hanged that hath slaine the basest Yeoman of theires then another that hath murdered his maister or the best noble man within the land Iames the fourth the Scottish King flew his father in the feilde and had noething said vnto him therefore but was excommunicated for aiding of his auncient Alie the french King whome the Pope loued not neither could his lamentable losse of life in that quarrel quench the Popes Choler but that he persecuted him when he was deade long time denyning his deade body buriall but yet that is noe sinne against the holy ghost for to aide on denounced a scismatike by the Pope nor to beare armes against the captaine of a croysy it doth appeare by that we doe reade in Mariners his historie of Spayne when Peter the king of Aragon comming to ayde the Earle of Tolouse and the Albigenses against whom the Pope had sent a croysy was slaine in battell by the Earle of Monsfort generall of the Croysy and that he would not deliuer Iames the sonne of Peter who was brought vp with him and shoulde haue maried his daughter but for this mischance vnlesse he would sweare that he would not reuenge his fathers death the Pope vpon complaint forced Monsfort by sharpe censures of excommunication to set him at libertie without any such promise that the Pope it was Iuno Centius the third might shew that he was annother God that woulde haue mercy where he woulde and be mercifull to whome it pleased him and that he doth nothing of desert but all motu proprio as they vse to say but yet perhappes he shewed grace vnto Iames for his fathers Peters sake who had purchased before hand his pardon for dying in the feilde in the succour of a scismaticke and heretike by being crowned at Rome by the Pope with a crowne made of singing breade or wafers and by graunting vnto the Pope the right to present vnto all ecclesiasticall lyuings But to returne againe to the deposing of Princes Iohn King Iohn the king of this land bereft both of kingdome and life Arthur his elder brothers sonne who had bene ordained and proclamed here apparant by common consent and kept his Sister with duble iniury in perpetuall prison and escaped scotfree at the Popes handes but when he would not accept for Archbishoppe Simon Langton a Cardinall of the Church of Rome aduanced to that office through the Popes extraordinary dealing hee had his whole realme interdicted which sustained no harme for accepting him for King against right and also himselfe was deposed therefore And what reason was there but that the King might aswell maintaine for Archbyshoppe the Byshoppe of Norwich the faithfull president of his counsell and a man whom the Pope coulde not iustly mislike being first chosen at Ganterburye by the Prior almost the whole couent as the Pope Simon Langton his Cardinall chosen after the other at Rome by a few of the couent that I may omitte that noe Byshop could euer be chosen in this realm without the Kings licence nor being chosen counted Byshoppe before the King had confirmed him And if the Pope said that the couent chose Norwitch at Canterbury for feare of the King because they had first elected their superior might not the King as truely say that they chose Langton at Rome for feare of the Pope for did he not force them to a new election yea threatned them who were afraid of the kings displeasure if they chose not Langton if Langton was an ill man why was the Pope so importunate to haue him Archbyshop if he were a good man why did that Pope shortly after himselfe excommunicate him what bare rule here but flesh bloud Did Langton so farre passe Norwich that hee would do more good to the Church of England then Norwich could do if he were placed Archbishoppe then the ceasing of all publicke seruice of God administration of the sacred Sacraments for the space of six years for so long the interdict lasteth thoughout the whole land could do harme how many soules may a mā probably think were lost through this long irreligiousnes which otherwise might haue bene saued I omit the great murdering of priests the banishing of Byshoppes the rasing of Abbes Churches Chappels the manifould miseries massacres wasts that I know not whether this more wilful or wofull interdict brought vnto this whol land But ye wil say that before the land was interdicted the king had driuen out of the land the monks of Canterbury seased on al their land goods And afterward did the like to the Byshops that published the interdict And also turned out of al such of the religious spiritual persōs as did fauour the Popes procedings all this before he was deposed by the Pope But yet all these mischieues proceeded of the Popes indirect dealing to make his Cardinall Archbyshop and if the Pope woulde haue relinquished that action the king had soon bene appeased And can any indifferent man thing that the king had not iust cause to bee displeased with the Couent of Canterbury who first chose scecretly in the night without his congedelier there Superior Archbishoppe and also priuilye sent him to Rome without the kings notice to be confirmed of the Pope and then misliking of their owne doings elected with the Kings licence his fauourite Norwich whom they afterward reiected without the kinges licence chose at Rome Langton one whom the King knew not And did not the Pope offer the King such a wrong as hath bene done neuer before nor since that time to cause the couent to choose a Byshoppe without the Kinges congedelier that to at Rome by a few of the couent sent thither in messages without their Pryor And if ye doe thinke the king dealt rigourously in banishing the Byshoppes that interdicted the land and in ceasing on their goodes that fauoured the Popes actions How can you excuse the Popes cruelty in interdicting the whole land whereof one halfe did take his part And faine would I know of you whether it proceded of charitie that the Pope woulde not release his interdict and censures when the King offred to receiue Langton See Mathew of Paris restore the banished men and fully to satisfy all men for theire losses vnlesse he would also become his vassall and make his realmes of England and Ireland tributarie for euer vnto the see of Rome was this charitie or couetousnes and ambition And againe came this of Charitie that the Pope who stoode so stiffe for the restitution of the losses of the clergie before the king had subiected himselfe and his Realmes vnto him did after that his owne turne was serued force the Byshoppes to take halfe their due and the rest of the clergie to beare their owne damages without one penny of recompence And yet see more partialitie in this Pope First he excommunicated deposed the king