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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A56468	A conference about the next succession to the crown of England divided into two parts : the first containeth the discourse of a civil lawyer, how and in what manner propinquity of bloud is to be preferred : the second containeth the speech of a temporal lawyer about the particular titles of all such as do, or may, pretend (within England or without) to the next succession : whereunto is also added a new and perfect arbor and genealogy of the descents of all the kings and princes of England, from the Conquest to the present day, whereby each mans pretence is made more plain ... / published by R. Doleman.	Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610.; Allen, William, 1532-1594.; Englefield, Francis, Sir, d. 1596?	1681 (1681)	Wing P568; ESTC R36629	283,893	409

John his Father and Lowys the Prince of France chosen in his place but that the death of King John did alter that Course intended by the English Nobility so as this matter is neither new nor unaccustomed in all foreign Countreys and now will I pass also a little to our English Stories to see whether the like may be found in them or no. And first of all that the Realm of England hath had as great Variety Changes and Diversity in the Races of their Kings as any one Realm in the World it seemeth evident for that first of all after the Britains it had Romans for their Governours for many years and then of them and their Roman Bloud they had Kings again of their own as app●areth by that Valiant King Aurelius Ambrosius who resisted so manfully and prudently the Saxons for a time after this they had Kings of the Saxon and English Bloud and after them of the Danes and then of the Normans and after them again of the French and last of all it seemeth to have returned to the Britains again in King Henry the Seventh for that his Father came of that Race and now you know there be Pretenders of divers Nations I mean both of Scotish Spanish and Italian Bloud so that England is like to participate with all their Neighbours round about them and I for my part do feel my self much of the French opinion before-alledged that so the Ship be well and happily guided I esteem it not much important of what Race or Nation the Pilot be but now to our purpose I mean to pass over the First and Antient Ranks of Kings as well of the British and Roman as also of the Saxon Races until King Egbert the first of this name King of the West Saxons and almost of all the rest of England besides who therefore is said to be properly the first Monarch of the Saxon Bloud and he that first of all commanded that Realm to be called England which ever since hath been observed This man Egbert being a young Gentleman of a Noble House in the West parts of England was had in jealousy by his King Britricus who was the sixteenth King from Cerdicius first King of the West Saxons as he was also the last of his Bloud And for that he suspected that this Egbert for his great Prowess might come in time to be chosen King he banish'd him into France where he lived divers years and was a Captain under the famous King Pepin that was Father to Charles the Great and hearing afterwards that King Britricus was dead he returned into England where Polydor saith omnium consensu Rex creatur that he was created or chosen King by consent and voice of all men though yet he were not next by Propinquity of Bloud Royal as is most evident and yet he proved the most Excellent King that ever the Saxons had before or perhaps after and his Election happened in the Year of Christ eight hundred and two when King Pepin the first of that Race reigned as hath been said in France so as this Monarchy of Egbert and that of Pepin whereof we have alledged so many Examples in the former Chapter began as it were together and both of them I mean both Pepin and Egbert came to their Crowns by Election of the People as here you see This King Egbert or Egbrich as others do write him left a lawful Son behind him named Elthelwolfe or Adelvulfe or Edolph for all is one who succeeded him in the Kingdom and was as Worthy a man as his Father and this Adelvulfe again had four lawful Sons who all in their turns succeeded by just and lawful Order in the Crown to wit Ethelbald Ethelbert Ethelred and Alfred for that none of the former Three had any Children and all the latter Three were most Excellent Princes especially Alfred or Alvred the Last of all Four whose Acts are wonderful and who among other his Renowned Gests drove Rollo that Famous Captain of the Danes from the Borders of England with all his Company into France where he got the Countr●y or Province named then Neustria and now Normandy and was the first Duke of that Province and Nation and from whom our William Conquerour came afterwards in the sixth Descent This man erected also the Vniversity of Oxford being very Learned himself builded divers goodly Monasteries and Churches and dying left as famous a Son behind him as himself which was Edward the First sirnamed the Senior or Elder This King Edward dying left two Sons lawfully begotten of his Wife Edigna the one named Prince Edmund and the other Eldred and a Third Illegitimate whose name was Adelstan whom he had by a Concubine But yet for that this man was esteemed to be of more valor than the other he was preferred to the Crown before the Two other Princes Legitimate for so testifieth Polidor in these words Adelstanus ex concubina Edwardi filius Rex à populo consalutatur atque ad Kingstonum oppidum more majorum ab Athelmo Can●uariensi Archiepiscopo coronatur which is Adelstan the Son of King Edward by a Concubin was made King by the People and was Crowned according to the old custom by Athelme Archbishop of Canterbury at the Town of Kingston Thus far Polidor and Stow addeth further these words His Coronation was celebrated in the Market-place upon a Stage erected on high that the King might better be seen of the Multitude he was a Prince of worthy memory valiant and wise in all his Acts and brought this Land into one perfect Monarchy for he expelled utterly the Danes and quieted the Welchmen Thus much Stow of the Success of Chusing this King Bastard to Reign To whose Acts might be added that he conquered Scotland and brought Constantine their King to do him homage and restored ●uy d' Outremer his Sisters son to the the Kingdom of France as before hath been signified This man dying without Issue his Lawful Brother Edmond put back before was admitted to the Crown who being of excellent expectation dyed after six years and left two Lawful Sons but yet for that they were young they were both put back by the Realm and their Uncle Eldred was preferred before them so saith Polidor Genuit Edmondus ex Egilda uxere Eduinum Edgarum qui cum aetate pueri essent post Eldredum deinde regnarunt King Edmond begat of his Wife Egilda two Sons named Edwin and Edgar who for that they were but children in years were put back and Reigned afterwards after their Vncle Eldred The like saith Stow and yieldeth the same reason in these words Eldred succeeded Edmond his Brother for that his Sons Edwin and Edgar were thought too young to take so great a Charge upon them This Eldred though he entred as you see against the Right of the Nephews yet lay Polidor and

two Nephews of his as the Spanish Chronicler Garavay writeth was deposed of his Kingdom by a publick Act of Parliament in the Town of Valliodolid after he had Reigned thirty years and his own son Don Sancho the fourth was Crowned in his place who for his valiant Acts was sur-named el bravo and it turned to great commodity of the Common-Wealth The same Common-Wealth of Spain some years after to wit about the year of Christ 1368. having to their King one Don Pedro sur-named the Cruel for his injurious proceeding with his Subjects though otherwise he were lawfully seased of the Crown as Son and Heir to King Don Alonso the twelfth and had Reigned among them eighteen years yet for his evil Government they resolved to depose him and so sent for a Bastard Brother of his named Henry that lived in France requesting him that he would come with some force of French-men to assist them in that Act and take the Crown upon himself which he did and by the help of the Spaniards and French Souldiers he drove the said Peter out of Spain and himself was Crowned And albeit Edward sur-named the black Prince of England by order of his Father King Edward the third restored once again the said Peter yet was it not durable for that Henry having the favour of the Spaniards returned again and deprived Peter the second time and slew him in Fight hand to hand which made shew of more particular favour of God in this behalf to Henry and so he remained King of Spain as doth also his progenie enjoy the same unto this day though by nature he was a Bastard as had been said and notwithstanding that King Peter left two Daughters which were led away into England and there Married to great Princes And this King Henry so put up in his place was called King Henry the second of this name and proved a most excellent King and for his great Nobility in conversation and prowess in Chivalry was called by excellency El cavallero the Knightly King and for his exceeding benignity and liberality was sur-named also El delas mercedes which is to say the King that gave many gifts or the liberal franck and bountiful King which was a great change from the other sur-named Cruel that King Peter had before and so you see that always I give you a good King in place of the bad deposed In Portugal also before I go out of Spain I will alledge you one example more which is of Don Sancho the second sur-named Capello fourth King of Portugal lawful Son and Heir unto Don Alonso sur-named el Gardo who was third King of Portugal This Don Sancho after he had Reigned 34. years was deprived for his defects in Government by the universal consent of all Portugal and this his first deprivation from all Kingly rule and Authority leaving him only the bare name of King was approved by a General Councel in Lions Pope Innocent the fourth being there present who at the Petition and Instance of the whole Realm of Portugal by their Embassadors the Arch-Bishop of Braga Bishop of Comibra and divers of the Nobility sent to Lyons for that purpose did Authorise the said State of Portugal to put in Supream Government one Don Alonso Brother to the said King Don Sancho who was at that time Earl of Bullen in Picardy by right of his Wife and so the Portugals did And further also a little after they deprived their said King and did drive him out of his Realm into Castilla where he liv'd all the rest of his Life in Banishment and Dyed in Toledo without ever returning and this decree of the Councel and Pope at Lyons for Authorising of this fact is yet extent in our Cannon Law in the sixt Book of Decretals now in Print And this King Don Alonso the third which in this sort was put up against his Brother was peaceably and prosperously King of Portugal all the days of his life and he was a notable King and among other great Exploits he was the first that set Portugal free from all Subjection Dependance and Homage to the Kingdom of Castile which unto his time it had acknowledged and he left for his Successor his Son and Heir Don Dionysio el Fabricador to wit the great Builder for that he Builded and Founded above forty and four great Towns in Portugal and was a most rare Prince and his off-spring ruleth in Portugal unto this day Infinite other Examples could I alledge if I would examine the Lives and Descents of these and other Kingdoms with their Princes and namely if I would speak of the Greek Emperors deprived for their evil Government not so much by popular Mutiny which often happened among them as by consent and grave deliberation of the whole State and weal-publick as Michael Calaphatos for that he had trodden the Cross of Christ under his Feet and was otherwise also a Wicked Man As also the Emperour Nicephorus Botoniates for his Dissolute Life and preferring Wicked Men to Authority and the like whereof I might name many but it would be too long What should I name here the deposition made of Princes in our days by other Common-Wealths as in Polonia of Henry the third that was last King of France and before that had been Sworn King of Polonia of which Crown of Polonia he was deprived by publick Act of Parliament for his departing thence without License and not returning at his day by the said State appointed and denounced by publick Letters of Peremptory Commandment which are yet extant What should I name the Deprivations of Hen. late King of Suetia who being lawful Successor and lawfully in possession after his Father Gustanus was yet put down by that Common-Wealth and deprived and his Brother made King in his place who if you remember was in Ireland in the beginning of this Queens Reign and whose Son Reigneth at this day and is King also of Polonia and this Fact was not only allowed of at home by all the States of that Countrey but also abroad as namely of Maximilian the Emperor and approved also by the King of Denmark and all the Princes of Germany near about that Realm who saw the reasonable cause which that Common-Wealth had to proceed as it did And a little before that the like was practised also in Denmark against Cisternus their lawful King if we respect his descent in Bloud for he was Son to King John that Reigned afore him and Crowned in his Fathers life but yet afterwards for his Intolerable cruelty he was deprived and driven into Banishment together with his Wife and three Children all which were Disinherited and his Unkle Frederick Prince of Alsatia was chosen King whose Progeny yet remaineth in the Crown and the other though he were married to the Sister of Charles the fifth and last Emperour of that Name and were

Constance as also by divers other participations of the Bloud-Royal of England as afterwards will appear Now then to come to the second Daughter of King William the Conquerour or rather the third for that the first of all was a Nun as before hath been noted her name was Adela or Alice as hath been said and she was Married in France to Stephen Count Palatine of Champagne Charters and Bloys by whom she had a Son called also Stephen who by his Grand Mother was Earl also of Bullaine in Picardy and after the death of his Uncle King Henry of England was by the favour of the English Nobility and especially by the help of his own Brother the Lord Henry of Bl●is that was Bishop of Winchester and Jointly Abbot of Glastenbury made King of England and this both in respect that Mathilda Daughter of King Henry the first was a Woman and her Son Henry Duke of Anjou a very child and one degree farther off from the Conqueror and from King Rufus then Stephen was as also for that this King Henry the first as hath been signified before was judged by many to have entred wrongfully unto the Crown and thereby to have made both himself and his posterity incapable of Succession by the violence which he used against both his elder Brother Robert and his Nephew Duke William that was Son and Heir to Robert who by nature and Law were both of them hold for Soverains to John by those that favoured them and their pretentions But yet howsoever this were we see that the Duke of Britainy that lived at that day should evidently have succeeded before Stephen for that he was descended of the elder Daughter of the Conqueror and Stephen of the younger though Stephen by the commodity he had of the nearness of his Port and Haven of Bullain into England as the French stories do say for Calis was of no importance at that time and by the friendship and familiarity he had goten in England during the Reign of his two Uncles King Rufus and King Herny and especially by the he●p of his Brother the Bishop and Abbot as hath been said he got the start of all the rest and the states of England admitted him This man although he had two Sons namely E●stachius Duke of Normandy and William Earl of Norfolk yet left they no Issue And his Daughter Mary was Married to Matthew of Flanders of whom if any Issue remains it fell afterwards upon the House of Austria that succeeded in those States To King Stephen who left no Issue succeeded by composition after much War Henry Duke of Anjou Son and Heir to Mathilda before named Daughter of Henry the first which Henry named afterward the second took to his Wife Eleanor Daughter and Heir of William Duke of Aquitain and Earl of Poytiers which Eleanor had been Married before to the King of France Lewis the VII and bare him two Daughters but upon dislike conceaved by the one against the other they were Divorced under pretence of being within the fourth degree of Consanguinity and so by second Marriage Eleanor was Wife to this said Henry who afterwards was King of England by name of King Henry the II. that procured the death of Thomas Backet Archbishop of Canterbury and both before and after the greatest Enemy that ever Lewis the King of France had in the World and much the greater for his Marriage by which Henry was made far stronger for by this Woman he came to be Duke of all Aquitain that is of Gascony and Guiene and Earl of all the Country of Poytiers whereas before also by his Fathers inheritance he was Duke both of Anjou Touraine and Maine and his Mother Mathilda King Henries Daughter of England he came to be King of Enland and Duke of Normandy and his own industry he got also to be Lord of Ireland as also to bring Scotland under his homage so as he enlarged the Kingdom of England most of any other King before or after him This King Henry the II. as Stow recounteth had by Lady Eleanor five Sons and three Daughters His eldest Son was named William that dyed young his second was Henry whom he caused to be crowned in his own Life time whereby he received much trouble but in the end this Son dyed before his Father without issue His third Son was Richard sirnamed for his valour Cor de Leon who reigned after his Father by the name of Richard the I. and dyed without issue in the Year of Christ 1199. His fourth Son named Geffrey married Lady Constance Daughter and Heir of Britany as before hath been said and dying left a son by her named Arthur which was Duke of Britany after him and pretended also to be King of England but was put by it by his Uncle John that took him also Prisoner and kept him also in the Castle first of Fallaise in Normandy and then in Rouan until he caused him to be put to death or slew him with his own hands as French Stories write in the Year 1204 This Duke Arthur left behind him two Sisters as Stow writeth in his Chronicles but others write that it was but one and at least wise I find but one named by the French Stories which was Eleanor whom they say King John also caused to be murthered in England a little before her Brother the Duke was put to death in Normandy and this was the end of the Issue of Geffrey whose Wife Constance Dutchess of of Britany married again after this Murther of her Children unto one Guy Vicount of Touars and had by him two daughters whereof the eldest named Alice was Dutchess of Britany by whom the Race hath been continued unto our time The Fifth Son of King Henry the II. was named John who after the death of his Brother Richard by help of his Mother Eleanor and of Hubert Archbishop of Canterbury drawn thereunto by his said Mother got to be King and put back his Nephew Arthur whom King Richard before his departure to the War of the Holy Land had caused to be declared Heir apparent but John prevailed and made away both Nephew and Neece as before hath been said for which Fact he was detested of many in the World abroad and in France by Act of Parliament deprived of all the States he had in those parts Soon after also the Pope gave sentence of Deprivation against him and his own Barons took Arms to execute the sentence and finally they deposed both him and his young Son Henry being then but a Child of eight years old and this in the eighteenth year of his Reign and in the Year of Christ 1215. and Lewis the VIII of that name Prince at that time but afterwards King of France was chosen King of England and sworn in London and placed in the Tower though soon after by the sudden death of King John

married to the King of Norway all which Issue and Line ended about the year 1290. David younger Brother to King William had Issue two daughters Margaret and Isabel Margaret was married to Alain Earl of Galloway and had Issue by him a daughter that married John Balliol Lord of Harcourt in Normandy who had Issue by her this John Balliol Founder of Balliol Colledge in Oxford that now pretended to the Crown as descended from the eldest daughter of David in the third descent Isabel the second daughter of David was married to Robert Bruse Earl of Cleveland in England who had Issue by her this Robert Bruse Earl of Carick the other competitor Now then the question between these two competitors was which of them should Succeed either John Balliol that was Nephew to the elder daughter or Robert Bruse that was Son to the younger daughter and so one degree more near to the Stock or Stem then the other And albeit King Edward the first of England whose power was dreadful at that day in Scotland having the matter referred to his arbitrement gave sentence for John Balliol and Robert Bruse obeyed for the time in respect partly of fear and partly of his Oath that he had made to stand to that Judgment yet was that sentence held to be unjust in Scotland and so was the Crown restor'd afterward to Robert Bruse his Son and his posterity doth hold it unto this day In England also it self they alledge the examples of K. Henry the first preferred before his Nephew William Son and Heir to his elder Brother Robert as also the example of K. John preferred before his Nephew Arthur Duke of Britany for that King Henry the second had four Sons Henry Richard Geffery and John Henry died before his Father without Issue Richard Reigned after him and died also without Issue Geffery also died before his Father but left a Son named Arthur Duke of Britany by right of his Mother But after the death of King Richard the question was who should Succeed to wit either Arthur the Nephew or John the Uncle but the matter in England was soon desided for that John the Uncle was preferred before the Nephew Arthur by reason he was more near to his Brother dead by a degree then was Arthur And albeit the King of France and some other Princes abroad opposed themselves for stomack against this Succession of King John yet say these favourers of the House of Lancaster that the English inclined still to acknowledge and admit his right before his Nephew and so they proclaimed this King John for King of England while he was yet in Normandy I mean Hubert Archbishop of Canterbury Eleanor the Queen this Mother Geffery Fitz-peter chief Judge of England who knew also what law meant therein and others the Nobles and Barons of the Realm without making any doubt or scruple of his title to the Succession And whereas those of the House of York do alledge that King Richard in his life time when he was to go to the holy Land caused his Nephew Arthur to be declared Heir apparent to the Crown and thereby did shew that his title was the better they of Lancaster do answer first that this declaration of King Richard was not made by act of Parliament of England for that King Richard was in Normandy when he made this declaration as plainly appeareth both by Polidor and Hollingshed Secondly that this declaration was made the sooner by King Richard at that time thereby to repress and keep down the ambitious humor of his Brother John whom he feared least in his absence if he had been declared for Heir apparent might invade the Crown as indeed without that he was like to have done as may appear by that which happened in his said Brothers absence Thirdly they shew that this declaration of King Richard was never admitted in England neither would Duke John suffer it to be admitted but rather caused the Bishop of Ely that was left Governour by King Richard with consent of the Nobility to renounce the said declaration of King Richard in favour of Arthur and to take a contrary Oath to admit the said John if King Richard his Brother should die without Issue and the like Oath did the said Bishop of Ely together with the Archbishop of Roan that was left in equal Authority with him exact and take of the Citizens of London when they gave them their Priviledges and Liberties of Commonalty as Hollingshed recordeth And lastly the said Hollinshed writeth how that King Richard being now come home again from the War of Jerusalem and void of that jealousie of his Brother which before I have mentioned he made his last Will and Testament and ordained in the same that his Brother John should be his successor and caused all the Nobles there present to swear Fealty unto him as to his next in bloud for which cause Thomas Walsingham in his story writeth these words Johannis filius junior Henrici 2. Anglorum regis Alienorae Ducissae Aquitaniae non modo jure propinquitatis sed etiam testamento fratris sui Richardi designatus est successo post mortem ipsius which is John younger Son of Henry the second King of England and of Eleanor Dutchess of Aquitain was declared successor of the Crown not only by Law and right of nearness of bloud but also by the Will and Testament of Richard his Brother Thus much this ancient Chronicler speaketh in the testifying of King John's Title By all which examples that fell out almost within one age in divers Nations over the World letting pass many others which the Civilian touched in his discourse before for that they are of more ancient times these favourers of the House of Lancaster do infer that the right of the Uncle before the Nephew was no new or strange matter in those days of King Edward the third and that if we will deny the same now we must call in question the succession and right of all the Kingdoms and States before-mentioned of Naples Sicily Spain Britany Flanders Scotland and England whose Kings and Princes do evidently hold their Crowns at this day by that very Title as hath been shewed Moreover they say that touching Law in this point albeit the most famous Civil Lawyers of the World be somewhat divided in the same matter some of them favouring the Uncle and some other the Nephew and that for different reasons as Baldus Oldratus Panormitanus and divers others alledged by Gulielm●● Benedictus in his Repetitions in favour of the Nephew against the Uncle And on the other side for the Uncle before the Nephew Bartolus Alexander Decius Altiatus Cujatius and many other their followers are recounted in the same place by the same man yet in the end Baldus that is held for head of the contrary side for the Nephew after all reasons weighed to and fro he cometh to conclude