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A81734 The Quakers folly made manifest to all men: or a true relation of what passed in three disputations at Sandwich, April, 12, 13, 19, 1659. between three Quakers, and a minister, viz. Mr. Samuel Fisher, George Whithead, Richard Hubberthorn, and Thomas Danson wherein many popish tenents were by them maintained, and by him refuted. Occasioned by an imperfect and (in many things) false relation of the said disputations, published by R. Hubberthorn, one of the three Quakers, which said relation is also censur'd and amended. Together with a brief narrative of some remarkable passages. / By Tho. Danson, late fellow of Magd. Coll. Oxon, and now minister of the Gospel at Sandwich in Kent. Danson, Thomas, d. 1694. 1659 (1659) Wing D215; Thomason E2255_3; ESTC R34492 40,882 71

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Thou sayest 't is meant of a natural light whereas 't is said to be the knowledge of whatsoever might be known of God Rom. 1.19 T. Danson The Apostle intends that what might be known of God without the preaching of the Gospel was known to the Gentiles v. 16 17. 't is by the Gospel that the righteousnesse of God is revealed and John 4.22 Christ tels the Samar●tan woman that the Jews exclusively knew what they worshipped and that salvation was of the Jews And in respect of this knowledge revealed by the Gospel the Scripture saies that the Gentiles have their understandings darkned Eph. 4.18 G. Whithead That place saies that the Gentiles were not so enlightened as afterwards For 't is said that Christ was given for a light to the Gen●iles T. Danson You give your meaning of the Scripture which you will not allow us to do But as for that Scripture which is Isa 49.6 it proves not that Christ was a light to the Gentiles in every age and generation but the contrary in that Christ was not to be a light to them till his coming in the flesh and it was fulfilled Acts 13.46 47. Lo we turn to the Gentiles For so hath the Lord commanded us saying I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles As for the place in the Ephesians it denies that the Gentiles had been at all enlightened by Christ unlesse you mean as God ch 2.13 The Apostle saies in that estate before Christs coming they were afarre off viz. from God and Christ spoken of v. 12. and the knowledge of them And Eph. 4.18 he saies that they were alienated from the life of God which imports that their understandings were no more capable of the knowledge of God then creatures of one kind of life to converse with those of another Gods understanding is his life as he is a reasonable being and these Gentiles wanted what some have by especial gift 1 John 5.20 an understanding to know him that is true and could no more converse with spiritual objects than bruit beasts can with such rational objects as mans understanding does So that those Scriptures put together do assert that the body of the Gentiles for ages and Generations wanted the light of the Gospel and light in their understandings the difference of which you may conceive by the light of the Sun which is external light and so the Gospel and the light in the eye to which answers an understanding to know him that is true and both of them are necessary or else a blind man might see when there is light and the seeing man when there is none G. Whithead Thou makest the Gospel to be an outward light in the darknesse of thy own reasoning but the Scripture saies 't is an inward light 2 Cor. 4 6. the Apostle saies it shines out of darknesse in their hearts T. Danson You shew much ignorance in your interpretation The Apostle speaks of material light and argues from the effect of one creating word to another that by the like word of command he had the light or knowledge of Christ in his understanding which was given not for his own use only but to be communicated to others As for the phrase in their hearts it imports but the same thing with that expression Eph. 1.18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened The light by which the Gospel is discerned is inward but that makes not against the Gospels being an outward light But what 's this to the enlightning of every man by Christ Reply to the Scriptures brought against that assertion G. Whithead The Apostle saies the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ shined in their hearts 2 Cor. 4.6 T. Danson In whose hearts nor of all mankind but of the Apostles and some others a small number in comparison of the rest who were not enlightned and therefore the Apostle saies that the Gospel was hid to them that are lost v. 3. and that there are some to whom the light of the Gospel doth not shine v. 4. And 't is elsewhere spoken of as a distinguishing mercy to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven Mat. 13.11 It was given to the Disciples not to others And to the same effect Luke 10.21 Christ gives thanks to his Father that whilst he hid the secrets of the Gospel from Scribes and Pharisees he revealed them to others G. Whithead The Scripture saies that the Kingdom of God was in the Pharisees Luke 17.21 and therfore it denies not but that they did know the mysteries of the Kingdom T. Danson That expression may import that the Kingdom which they did upon mistake look for without them was indeed a Kingdom within them To which I shall adde that upon second thoughts I judge the most genuine interpretation to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among you so the prepos may be rendred Mat. 21.43 meaning of the preaching of the Gospel by Christ in person and his Disciples and this threat of taking away the Kingdom of God from them is directed against the Pharisees v. 45. The Pharisees perceived that he spake of them R. Hubberthorn The form of ●ound words is that Christ enlightens every man that cometh into the world John 1.9 T. Danson The mean●ng of those words cannot be as the letter of them does import for then the Scripture would contradict it self but it must be either that Christ inl●ghtens every man that is inl●ghtened or else that he inlightens some of every Nation kindred tongue and people as the phrase is Rev. 5.9 R. Hubberthorn The Scripture saies every man and thou saiest but some who shall be believed thou or the Apostle Thou makest John a liar T. Danson No such matter I make not the Apostle a liar For the indefinite phrase hath a restrained sense as elsewhere in the Scripture Christ tasted death for every m n Heb. 2.9 when as he died but for a certain number as appears by that very place v. 10. In bringing many so●s to glory Those whom Christ brings to glory are those for whom he tasted death but the former are but many sons and therefore not the latter the every man for whom he died must be limited by the many sons whom he brings to glory R. Hubberthorn Then it seems thou deniest that Christ died for all T. Danson Yes that I do and 't is more than you can prove G. Whithead I witnesse according to the Scripture that Christ died for all 2 Cor. 5.14 If one died for all then were all dead T. Danson 'T is spoken of those who were converts and believers whose sanctification was the end of Christ's death and for whom Christ rose and who therefore did ri●e with him As for the meaning of the words 't is this that the necessity of Christ's dying imported the misery of their condition in that they were dead spiritually and obnoxious to eternal death and the love of Christ which made him