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A77292 Dr Durie's defence of the present ministry, being compared with the gospel and gospel ministry, turnes into smoke, and vanisheth As is made to appear in the ensuing treatise, by a witnesse of the gospel, John Braine. Brayne, John. 1649 (1649) Wing B4322A; ESTC R231104 35,215 40

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Scripture as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act 20.17 he called for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thus that 1 Cor 12.28 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is that under these words set down in the plurall number the whole ordinary Church ministry are comprehended of Ephesus or Corinth and consequently may be of any other Church Now Reader judge where this be nonsense where a man but of small understanding may not apprehend it though not a Doctor and where it agreeth with the whole scope of my Book or not and how little cause the Doctor hath to call it nonsense Dr. If the thing in question had been proved these objections might have been made but now they are a begging of the question Resp Sir when God hath thrown down Babel he will prove it unto you then and I shall no need beg the Question any more nor if you would yeild to the truth I need not come a begging to you for these things at all P. 11. The third Church Dr. Where was the second Church spoken of For hitherto he hath mentioned only Rome to prove the point which hath yeild●d no proof at all Resp 1. The first Church which I now must make the second was that of Ephesians pag 2. O Mr Doctor have you this twelve month been making observations on my Book and pass over the subject of my discourse with so little notice as to ask where the second was sure that text of Scripture doth dazle your eie-sight when ye come to look on it because ye cannot see a single ministry in it it was a wonder that Antichrist did not see this would destroy his way of administrations ●●r him Dr. Nor is here from this 1 Cor. 12.4 any word of proof but that there are severall administrations to generall pers●n● And what then is therfore an Evangelist a distinct ordinary perpetuall Officer in the Church O silly silly weaknesse Resp Sir take heed lest you come in the compass of those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Cor 2.17 which are corrupters of the Word Sir how can these gifts belong to generall persons which are to be in every constituted Church ordinarily for which God hath designed severall administra●●o●s in the Word Sir your generall persons is a tearm ●o generall to be used in controversy when you more particularly express your self I will more particularly answer you if this do not suffice you P. 11. Mark 6.7 Luk 10.1 Christ sends his forth two by two Dr. This is a proof like all the rest from the circumstance of a fact to argue a perpetuall institution is very weak Christ sends his Disciples by two and two and the ministry of the Gospel is not a single work therfore beside Pastors and Teachers there must be Evangelists in ordinary and perpetually in office What a senslesse consequence is this Resp This act of Christ was brought only to prove against a single ministry as now used the Church being not yet fully constituted 2. Whereas you make a great cry of nothing with a O Yes this is proof like all the rest from the circumstance of a fact Sir what if you had no more to convince you of your single ministry is not this enough was not here the sending of the Apostles and seventy to teach according to which pattern should not you walk by if you would walk in the truth had Moses more then the pattern to do all his Tabernacle work by Sir was this only done in one two or were not all the eighty two so sent forth and so commemorated by the Evangelists sure if the thing were so slight as you make it there would not have been that care to set it down there was And as these now so after they alwaies did in the Historie of the Acts go two or three together from this their former Commission Sir if men would believe you it were nothing for you to make nothing of overcoming the truth with branding it with senslesse consequence drawn by your self out of that was never intended by me and so if there be any senslesnesse in the consequence it is your own and none of mine P. 12. I shewed why Christ sent the Disciples and seventy by two and two and not by three because none were to officiate the Evangelists office while Christ was living and in this he was 〈◊〉 And whereas I said I remember not that the Apostles are said to Evangelize during Christ's being on earth Mr Doctor in his Scholia saith This assertion is false the twelve did Evangelize while Christ was alive the text saith it expresly Luk 9.6 Resp 1. I did not assert the thing but said as I did remember it is not said they did not I hastily writing did not examine it 2. That they did Evangelize as the Church Evangelists did in constituted Churches after Christ's resurrection I say that the assertion if Mr Doctor will have it so is true and the contrary false P. 12. The time of gathering Churches was not yet come c. Dr. Those that became Disciples to Christ to what were they gathered why were not they a Church that were united to him by faith as his members Resp Mr Doctor may satisfie himself concerning these Questions without my Answer I wonder he useth a why and what about it 1. Were there not many a one with him by faith that were not in publique Church Fellowship or in Church Ordinances with him as Lot Job and others before not circumcised many in the Antichristian church now are of Christ's invisible church Rev. 18.4 and no man will say these were in a visible church socie●y of Christ why were they called out else Nicodemus and others 2. The Holy Ghost will give another answer Act 1.4 they must tarry at Jerusalem for the Holy Ghost before they constituted churches yea in Judea and Jerusalem vers 4. and Eph 4.8 10 11. will shew you Christ went to Heaven before he gave th● gifts of church ministry to the church to be ministred unto in a church way as they after were to be administred Dr. Christ declares that M ses ministry was at an end with John the Baptists time Math 11.12 13. Luk 16.16 Resp 1. Neither of these Scriptures say that it was at an end but that it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 untill John 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. from thenceforth the K●ngdom of Heaven is preached Note untill John there was none else but Moses ministry and that it was not utterly abolished in John's time or by John Math 23.1 2. Jesus said to the Disciples and to the Multitude The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses Chair Whatsoever therfore they say unto you do ye c. This was in the last year of Christs ministry and after John the Baptists death and yet it is not abolished utterly if it were dead it was not buried 2. That churches were not constituted see the Historie Act 6. Deacons are set up in the church after 1 Cor 6.1 the