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A86890 A rejoynder to Mr. Drake or a reply unto his book entituled, A boundary to the holy Mount. VVhich being approach'd, is found so dreadfull, that the people do exceedingly quake and fear, lest they be consumed. By John Humfrey Master of Arts, and minister of Froome in Somerset-shire. Humfrey, John, 1621-1719. 1654 (1654) Wing H3705; Thomason E1466_2; ESTC R208675 155,461 285

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Church censure which is the amendment of the party c. Ans I wonder at this seeing but just over the leafe as soon as it is to my purpose I doe expresly tell him the end is to bring the offenders to repentance It is reported of St. Albans Executioner that as soone as he had strucke the blow his eyes dropt out as teares at the fact he had done the same fate is befallen Mr. Drake while he is so cruel many times in his censure to me he cannot see a leafe before him 2 He would perswade us That Church Censures are extendible to ignorant persons and every wilfull sinner Ans The Scripture extends them I think to none but the more notorious obstinate offendors for my part I dare not binde such a heavie burden on the Consciences of others which I durst not touch with my little finger It is a thing indeed to be wisht that the ignorant bee brought to Catechisme and Instruction the scandalous to reproofe and admonition but not so slightly to be censured or kept from the Sacrament Were this Doctrine strictly followed it would soone leave us without Church-Members and while it would thus scatter our Flocks either Master Drakes wits are going a wool gathering or else ours must all be set a gathering Congregations 3 He challenges all the World to shew him proofe that persons excommunicate may not be present at any publick Ordinance c. Ans If Mr. D. thinke so learnedly of himselfe let him send his Challenge to Doctor Hammond who confutes this opinion as the foundation of Erastianisme and tels us Excommunication is also from hearing and prayer as well as the Sacrament viz. in publick when that is thought expedient to reforme any brings Tertullian and answers Master Drakes text 1 Cor. 14.24 and reason quoting it from Erastus at large Power of Keyes chap. 4. Sect. 43 44 c. Si vis cursu gloriari tigrim vince vel leonem nulla est gloria praeterire asellos for my part I shall propose him only that one text Matth. 7.6 Give not that which is holy unto doggs Excommunicate persons are generally interpreted to bee Doggs and Swine the Word and Prayer are holy things as well as the Sacrament which yet was not instituted when this precept was first given and so cannot be primarily intended here ergo Master Perkins upon this text tels us over and over that Blasphemers Hereticks obstinate enemies c. Are to be barred from the Word till they repent The meaning of Christ is sayes he If any be openly convicted c. to such publish not my word and especially concerning the point how farre the censure of the Church does extend It extends he tels us to the debarring such in the use of the Ministry in the Word Prayer and Sacraments indeed if the party be Excommunicate for some particular Crime c. then although he be excluded from communion with him in the Sacraments and Prayer marke that yet may he be admitted to hearing the Word to help him to repent which is the end of all Church Censures So that it is strange Mr. D. should fasten here a new Light on me when himselfe is so singularly opposite to the practise of the Church Upon this account I must confesse it hath been my opinion that the Excommunicate being excluded Church society in generall it is by way of mitigation as I expressed in those few words I let fall about it p. 13. that they are permitted at one Ordinance when kept from others but I desire not here to be assertive for though I doubt not but Excommunication does referre to Church-Communion in generall or Church-membership yet doe I conceive Mr. Drakes or Erast us reason is not so easily to be waved that Heathens may be present at the Word if not other Ordinances 1 Cor. 14. I could be willing therefore to compound this matter with one distinction Exclusion is either real or relative I shall leave it to him that will to dispute with Mr. D. how the Church can exclude the excommunicate really from being presentat the Word and Prayer and it shall suffice me that they are excluded relatively however from all priviledges so that though they may be present as Heathen yet are they cut off from all their interest in them still as members That which we admit Heathen to in receiving them into the Church I thinke we cast them out from in excommunicating them now we admit men directly into Church-Society in generall or Membership whereby they are put in a state or relation unto Christ and consequently to all his Ordinances with a difference of priviledge from the world and as they were at them before that they belong now to them as externally in Covenant with him redeemed sanctified in a word as in communion with the Head and Body whereof the Sacrament is a pledge unto which they cannot therefore be admitted until they are in nor Juridically debarred until they are put out of that relation The difference then between Mr. D. and me lyes not about the other Ordinances for I wil suppose not grant that Excommunication does debarre a man really by necessary consequence only actual receiving yet is his errour stil the same that whereas I hold a man is to be debarred this actual receiving by Excommunication he wil have him to be debarred without it I hold it is Church-membership gives a man admission and sutably Excommunication excludes him Hee holds it is visible worthinesse upon trial can only admit him and consequently sets up a censure sutable to his rule neither of which are in Scripture to exclude him without Excommunication so that a man is stil a Church-member and in communion in general yet must not be allowed the token of that Communion he is stil externally in Covenant and yet must be debarred the external Seal thereof in the body and must not partake of the body this is a Riddle Where the Sins of men are not bound or retained there is no Church-censure Matth. 16.19 Jo. 20.23 but it is not excluding men from the Sacrament that does bind or retaine their sins but the excluding them from the Church and so relatively from all its benefits and therefore suspension without Excommunication or Dismembership is no Church-censure and ought not to wrong that solemne institution We shal cleare this by the manifest phrases of Excommunication I will give thee the keyes of the kingdome of heaven Matth. 16.19 That is of the Church to admit in and shut out of it there is no censure of the Keyes without exclusion from the Church whatsoever degrees you make after Let him be to thee as a heathen Matth. 18.17 that is apparently as no Church-member this Mr. D. grants from whence that interpretation is pertinent when thou hast used all these Christian meanes thou mayest implead him at the Law which else was not fit for a fellow member 1 Cor. 6.1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Joh. 9.22 putting