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A54150 The great question to be considered by the King and this approaching Parliament, briefly proposed, and modestly discussed, (to wit); how far religion is concerned in policy or civil government and policy in religion? ... / by one who desires to give unto Cæsar the things that are Gods. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1679 (1679) Wing P1300; ESTC R7032 14,393 8

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The Great Question to be Considered by the KING and this approaching PARLIAMENT briefly proposed and modestly discussed To wit How far Religion is concerned in Policy or Civil Government and Policy in Religion With an Essay rightly to distinguish these great Interests upon the Disquisition of which a sufficient Basis is proposed for the firm Settlement of these Nations to the most probable satisfaction of the several Interests and Parties therein By one who desires to Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and to God the things that are Gods THat this Nation and the Nations of Scotland and Ireland concerned with it are at present in such a posture and under such circumstances as give just reason both of fear and care more then ordinary both to Rulers and People is so without doubt that it needs no proof and that we are in a dangerous Feaver in regard both to our Civil and Religious Interest all in their wits must know which Disease albeit it be now in the opinion of most come to a Crisis yet few can determine whether it will end in a natural cool or prove a distemper yet more dangerous and deadly And truly at this time we are so far happy that though the Evil be great which threatneth us yet the Cause thereof is very manifest so that we are not put to the disadvantage of an uncertain search in that matter We see all this trouble proceeds from a pretence of Religion and Opinion that men have drank in that for and because of Religion they ought to concern themselves in the Civil Government of the Nations yea so far as to overturn it if otherwise the advancement of their Religion cannot be procured How much this Opinion albeit managed by men vastly differing as to the Religion they would advance has wrought to the shaking of these Nations few can be ignorant so that it seems high time and no season more opportune then now that this Question were fully decided What is the Interest of Religion in Policy or Civil Government and again of Policy and Civil Government in Religion And how far men upon the account of Religion may and ought to meddle in the Government or with the Governours and again how far the Civil Magistrate as such ought to concern himself in the Consciences of the People that if possible such Principles may be pitched upon agreeable to the nature of Christianity and to the soundest Principles of Government by which men may be possessed with a Faith that Christianity doth not oblige them to meddle in Government and reciprocally that they may be the more quieted in that belief that the Magistrate is not to concern himself in their Consciences so that in this mutual assurance the Magistrate may rule securely and administer Justice to all equally without fearing hurt from the Religion of any of his people and the people may fear God and follow piety according to the best of their knowledge without fearing prejudice from the Magistrate therefore And truly it cannot but be acknowledged that it would be a happy Nation where this were fully fixed and the establishing of such Principles seems the less difficult that in the purest times of Christianity so reputed by all the true Christian Religion was not at all hurtful nor dangerous to the Magistrate though differing from it nor did the Christians judge it any part of their Religion to seek to disturb him in his Government or screw themselves into it and though again they acknowledged his Authority in Civils to be just and lawful yet they claimed an exemption from being imposed upon by him in the exercise of their Consciences so that a re-establishing of those Principles and Practices which were believed and followed by those who on all hands are affirmed to have been the purest Christians and also good and faithful Subjects will do the business But for the more clear understanding of this matter it will be fit to take it a little higher and enquire how those two great Interests of Religion and Civil Government came to be interlaced and mixed together Cain was the first that disturbed Civil Society because of Religion and the Scripture from which alone we may expect it gives no account of any thing like the mixing of these Interests before the Floud and after the Floud the whole tract of the Hebrew History from Heber to Moses for of the particular state of the Jews I shall speak anon 〈◊〉 shew that the matter of Religion was wholly distinct from the outward Policy and Government then used in the World Jacob lived in Laban's Family though differing from them and Joseph among the Egyptians with which Superstitious Nation we cannot suppose he joyned in Worship and yet was both a faithful Friend to Pharoah and considerable Ruler over the People Moreover if the true ground and rise of Government be considered this will more appear for all Lawyers and States men derive the first grounds of Government from the Posterity of Noah's Sons after the Floud and do show how through necessity Reason and the Law of Nature led them thereunto for the Law of Nature giving to every man a natural and paternal Jurisdiction over his own Family when as the increase of Mankind and necessity of Commerce gave occasion for several Families to be concerned together and that these concernments begot Controversies needful to be determined and that every Family stood upon equal foot as to Authority and to decide by Force would prove destructive and not necessarily be just and that it was unfit every man should be Judge in his own cause therefore Reason led them to chuse men of approved Justice and Honesty to whom all differences were remitted and whose decisions served as Laws and were readily submitted to the parties resting in the assurance of their equity and this all Lawyers generally acknowledge was the first foundation of Civil Government in the joynt agreement of several Families from whence arose the Institution of Cities and from their Interest in the Country about the division of Provinces and Kingdoms Now as in the first part of Government in Families the Authority stood in one viz. in the Father of the Family so they usually chose one for the Government of joynt Families who thence were called Kings and this was the Original of Monarchy whom the opinion of Honesty Knowledge and Justice most readily and without fear of Emulation advanced to that dignity whose Judgment and W●ll answering to the cause of their advancement was a Law to the People Afterwards when the respect put upon these Rulers or Kings and the advantage thence accruing increased men began to be ambitious of the Imployment and from thence to use their influence to obtain it from which followed Faction and often Bloudshed which made men fall upon the expedient of letting the Government rest upon the Children of those who formerly had possessed it the Veneration of their Fathers and the supposition and
several Centuries made a shift to turn him by degrees out of Italy establish to himself a Temporal Jurisdiction in Rome as being forsooth Peters Patrimony and at last not only to be independant from the Emperor but superiour to him as by the tract even of their own Historians is manifest and known to all those who have read the story of Hildebrand and others And thus by the like means several Bishops in Germany and other places abusing the zeal and ignorance of the people came into the possession of great Temporal Jurisdictions and not only so but in all Nations of Europe they obtained a place in the Government and became a distinct State by means of which having an immediate dependance upon the Pope he came to exercise an Universal Monarchy in the Christian World And thus Religion came to be a part of Civil Government among Christians And it is greatly to be regretted that in the Reformation this was not rooted out but in a great measure retained not only by the Lutherans but even by the Calvinists So that although those who follow the Geneva Discipline do pretend to abstract the Clergy from meddling in State yet their method of proceeding proves at last the same for while they lay an obligation upon the Magistrate under pretence of taking care for the Cause and Church of Christ to establish one sort of form of Religion and ruine all others wherein he must steer by the Clergies Compass or otherwise have the people blown up unto a Sedition from the Pulpit So that experience hath proved that under the Government of Presbytery especially as it was improved in Scotland where it came to its height the insolency and imperiousness of the Clergy became no less troublesome and unsupportable to the Magistrates then that of Bishops whether Papal or Protestant so that it is manifest the altering from one form to another hath not cured these Nations of the mischiefs that therethrough has attended them so long as that fundamental Error is entertained of making Religion a part of the Civil Government Now this brief Historical hint doth abundantly shew how these Interests are distinct and ought not be jumbled together To which I shall add these brief Considerations First Because Religion and Policy or Christianity and Magistracy are two distinct things have two different ends and may be fully prosecuted without respect one to the other the one is for the purifying and cleansing the Soul and fitting it for a future state the other is for the maintenance and preserving of Civil Society in order to the outward conveniency and accommodation of men in this World A Magistrate is a true and real Magistrate though not a Christian as well as a man is a true and real Christian without being a Magistrate Christianity far less this or that form of it doth not belong to the being of Magistracy else the Apostles and Primitive Christians could not have acknowledged the Heathens to have been their lawful Magistrates and Superiors as they did and taught their Disciples so to do as appeared in the practice of the Primitive Christians beforementioned Secondly Christ says expresly his Kingdom is not of this World the thing he came for is a business distinct from the external Government of the World and hath no necessary connexion thereto and therefore there doth not appear any one saying of his or his Followers to warrant Magistrates as such to meddle in Religion or to warrant his Disciples and Followers as such to meddle with the outward Government of the Nations And truly the dismal effects this has produced both to the ruine of Christianity and Civil Government may convince those that are not byassed by particular Interest as all Clergy-men both Pope Prelate and Presbyter generally are and love the good and advancement either of Christianity or Civil Government that it is high time to avoid this snare To this the state of the Jews is usually objected whose Religion and Government was mixed together But that saying of Christ abovementioned is thereunto a sufficient Answer for they had an outward Kingdom which Christ came not to establish neither for himself nor Followers and theirs related to a particular Race or Family which is not the case now besides that their outward Policy was by Revelation expresly given them of God who gave them Rulers Judges Kings oftentimes by the particular appointment of his Prophets without respect either to hereditary Right or the choice of the People and unless we would plead for the like thing now which none I know of do I mean of those that strive for the Government there can be nothing rationally urged from the state of the Jews in this matter But some may be apt to say that there is a necessity that Religion and Policy be interlaced because those things are a part of Religion which are of absolute necessity to Government such as the suppressing of Murther Adultery Theft Perjury which surely belongs to the Magistrates to punish To this I answer It is true it belongs to the Magistrate to punish such like crimes but as these things are contrary to the Law of God and such as Religion strikes against so they are injurious to Civil Society and tend to destroy it and therefore come under the Magistrates cognizance in this respect or under this reduplication and not upon the meer Religious account for whatever is destructive or injurious to Civil Society comes to be punished by the Magistrate upon that score without respect to its concern in Christianity as we see these things were punishable by the Magistrates in all well-regulated Kingdoms and Commonwealths among the Heathens where they could not be considered as any part of the Christian Religion Not that I deny where both Magistrate and People are Christian and agreed in the acknowledgment that such things are not only hurtful to Civil Society but destructive to their immortal Souls he may improve that reason to deterr the people from these evils as also to bear home to them the justice of the punishment but this he does not simply as a Magistrate but as a Christian even as such Magistrates among the Heathens as were Philosophers sometimes used to do To this I suppose it may be also readily objected That according to this Principle both Papists Presbyters Anabaptists yea such as were John of L●yden and his Complices may and ought to be tolerated if the Magistrate has nothing to do with the Consciences of his Subjects And again if the Magistrate should become any of these the People ought quietly to bear it To this I answer and indeed herein the excellency of this fundamental Principle both in Religion and Government will appear That Popery hath two parts the one is that which is meerly Religious that is which relates properly to Religion or Conscience and are peculiar to them such as the believing Transubstantiation Purgatory Adoration of Saints and Images yea and the Superiority of the