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A09287 Rhemes against Rome: or, The remoouing of the gagg of the new Gospell, and rightly placing it in the mouthes of the Romists, by the Rhemists in their English translation of the Scriptures. Which counter-gagg is heere fitted by the industrious hand of Richard Bernard ... Bernard, Richard, 1568-1641. 1626 (1626) STC 1960; ESTC S101681 240,340 338

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of the Sacrament as before is proued in the former question Mat. 26. 26. Take eate this is my body Luk. 22. 19. This is my body which is giuen for you Answ 1. I haue before proued that these words are spoken in an vsuall Sacramentall phrase figuratiuely and not properly Secondly they cannot be spoken but figuratiuely because Christ himselfe spake these words He willed them not to eate his naturall body which body was visible before them Had he his owne body in his hand and euery one of his Twelue Apostles the same in their mouthes then were there thirteene bodies of Christ at one time at the table twelue in their hands and mouthes and one sitting apparantly before their eyes One body cannot be in so many places at once as before I haue proued And what a little body must this be which Christ held in his owne hand which he did breake and which euery of the Apostles did put in their mouthes Thirdly The words must needs bee figuratiuely vnderstood now if we consider the time when Christ spake them to wit before his Passion when as yet his body was not giuen nor his bloud shed Fourthly Christ spake figuratiuely when hee deliuered the shop Mat. 26. 28. Then why more properly in the one then in the other Fiftly The end of Christs instituting this Sacrament shewes it to bee figuratiuely spoken For it was for a remembrance of him Luk. 22. 19. But if this vpon the words of consecration had beene his very owne bodie it could not be called properly a remembrance of him for wee remember by signes things absent and not things themselues present for so the signes were needlesse 1. Cor. 10. 16. The cup of blessing which we blesse is it not the communion of the bloud of Christ The bread which wee breake is it not the communion of the body of Christ 1. Cor. 11. He that eateth and drinketh vnworthily eateth and drinketh iudgement to himselfe not discerning the Lords body Answ 1. Here is no proofe for transubstantiation but that the Bread is Christs body and the Wine his bloud by the receiuing whereof wee receiue Christs very body and bloud But how Sacramentally spiritually by faith and such as come not prepared to this holy Sacrament as they ought eate and drinke vnworthily not making a difference of this bread and wine representing Christ from common bread and wine or a common banquet which is a grieuous sinne All this wee doe acknowledge neither doe we deny the bread to be the bodie of Christ or the wine his bloud but yet euer in a Sacramentall speech figuratiuely and not properly For if the signe be the very thing signified indeed then were there no Sacrament for it is an outward signe of an inuisible grace Now there being as is proued no transubstantiation then it followes that there is no adoration of the Sacrament in that respect nor therein offered any vnbloudy sacrifice for the quicke and the dead XXV Proposition That prayers are to be made vnto Angels and Saints departed Confuted by their owne Bible 1. FOr Angels their owne Bible telleth vs that the Angels themselues forbid worship to be done to them Reu. 19. 10. and 22. 9. And so Saint Paul taught that they should not be worshipped Col. 2. 18. Now prayer to them is worshipping of them and that in a great degree Secondly for Saints departed the Virgin Mary or any other they are not to bee prayed vnto for they know not our particular estates here Abraham hath not knowne vs and Israel hath beene ignorant of vs Esa 63. 16. The dead know nothing more Eccles 9. 5. Iob. cap. 14. 21. speaking of the dead saith Whether his children shall be noble or vnnoble he shall not vnderstand How vaine is it then to pray to them Touching either Angels or Saints their Bible alloweth vs not to pray vnto them I. It teacheth euery where wheresoeuer there is either a commandement to pray or an example of any holy man of God praying that the same is made vnto God For commandement Psal 49. 15. Inuocate me in the day of trouble who is very ready to heare Esay 64. 24. Mat. 11. 28. Come vnto me saith Christ and promiseth them that come vnto him that hee will not cost forth Iob. 6. 37. Iames saith Aske of God chap. 1. 5. There is no commandement to pray to any other in all the Scripture For examples Abraham called vpon the Name of the Lord so Isaac Iacob Moses Iosua Samuel Dauid and all the rest No instance can be giuen to the contrary in either precept or example II. The Apostles desired to be taught to pray Luk. 11. Now Christ in his perfect forme of Prayer taught them and in them all vs to pray aright And it is against praying to Saints and Angels in the Preface Our Father which art in Heauen First this is against all Shee Saints for we cannot call the Virgin Marie nor any woman-Saint Father Secondly this is against all Angels for they bee not our Fathers but Fellow-seruants as they confesse Reuel 19. 10. Thirdly this is against all Hee-Saints departed for they be our Brethren and in Heauen but one Father Matth. 23. 8 9. In the Petitions which Christ willeth vs to pray for they cannot be made to any of them We cannot say to them Hallowed be thy Name Thy Kingdome come Thy will be done in Earth as it is in Heauen Can we say to them Giue vs this day our daily bread Forgiue vs this day our trespasses Leade vs not into temptation but deliuer vs from euill In the conclusion for may wee ascribe to them and say Thine is the Kingdome the power and the glory for ouer Amen Now if we cannot aske of them these things nor ascribe to them kingdome power and glory without horrible idolatrie and sacriledge then either Christ taught not sufficiently in this Prayer to whom and what to pray for or else if he did then no Saints or Angels are to be prayed vnto III. Their Bible maketh onely Christ the meanes betweene God and vs For first it telleth vs but of one Mediatour One God and also one Mediatour of God and men 1. Timoth. 2. 5. Who this one is it also telleth vs euen the Man Christ Iesus 1. Timoth. 2. 5. And further teacheth that he is our Mediatour both of redemption Heb. 9. 12. and of intercession Rom. 8. 34. Heb. 7. 25. neither doth their Bible make any other Mediatour in either of these respects vnto God for vs saue Iesus Christ alone Secondly their Bible telleth that no man commeth to the Father but by Christ Ioh. 14. 6. Thirdly that we haue a promise to be heard if wee aske the Father in his Name Ioh. 16. 23. Fourthly that Christ foreshewed that his Disciples should aske and pray his Father in his Name Ioh. 16. 26. Fifthly their Bible exhorts vs therefore to goe to him Heb. 13. 13. to offer vp our prayses and so our prayers by him Heb.
come to them and blesse them Chap. 20. 24. to be high aboue all Nations to praise name and honour to be a holy people Deut. 26. 19. to circumcise their heart and the heart of their seed to loue him with all their heart and soule Deut. 30. 6. to be with them not to leaue them nor forsake them Deut. 31. 8. yea he promised that no new god should be among Psal 81. 9. them nor they to adore a strange god Psal 80. 10. Mount Sion was not to be remoued but to abide for euer and peace to be on Israel Psal 105. 1. whom he would redeeme from all Psal 1●● 1. Psal 13● 8. Psal 132. 13 14 iniquities Psal 129. 8. He chose Sion and that to be his rest for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psal 13● 13 14. their way was to be the way of Holinesse and so direct that fooles should not erre by it Esay 35. 8. and such as erred in the Spirit should know vnderstanding the mutterer should learne the Law Esa 29 24. and they should haue Pastors according to the Lords owne heart which should feed them with knowledge and doctrine Ier. 3. 15. To conclude Israel had a promise to be saued with eternall saluation they should not be confounded and ashamed for euer and euer Esay 45. 17. yea that we may know that the promises were not to the people then liuing onely the Lord saith I will powre out my Spirit vpon their seede and my blessing vpon thy stocke Esay 44. 3. and touching the Temple thus saith God to Salomon I haue sanctified this House to put my Name there for euer and mine eyes and my heart shall be there 1. King 9. 3. alwayes 3. Kin. 9. 3. Yet for all these so gracious promises she erred she hath fallen away and remaineth in her sinnes We haue heard out of their owne Bible First how the Churches defection hath beene foretold Secondly how she also hath beene found guiltie Thirdly the same proued by Historie of the Bible from the beginning in Adam and Eue till Christ though the Church of Israel had admirable meanes to vphold it to which I do adde this last From Christs comming till Iohns being in Pathmos In this space we may finde errours in the Church The Apostles themselues before Christs Ascension were in an error touching Christ his Kingdome dreaming of a temporall kingdome Act. 1. 6. Luk. 24. 21. of restoring the kingdome to Israel and redeeming them so as they did striue among themselues which of them should be greatest Luk 22. 24. and hereupon it was that the mother of Zebedees children desired of him for her sonnes that one might sit in his Kingdome on the right hand and the other on the left Mat. 20. 20 21. Their knowledge was very imperfect for it is said often that they vnderstood not many things Mat 15. 16. Luk. 9. 45. and 10. 34. Ioh. 12. 16. and 29. yea so slow of heart and dull of hearing they were that Christ telleth them that he had many things to say to them but that then they were not able to beare thē Ioh. 16. 12. their faith was verie weake as appeareth by his calling of them Ye of little faith Mat. 8. 26 and 16. 8. Slow of heart to beleeue what the Prophets had spoken Luk. 24. 25. Also by their forsaking him and flying from him when he was taken Mat. 26 56. After Christs Ascension and the comming downe of the holy Ghost they were ignorant for a time in this that they did not thinke it was lawfull to go to the Gentiles as we may see in Peter Act. 10 15. 20. and the other Iewes vers 45. compared with Cap. 11. 2 3 18 19. The Churches of Galatia erred so as S. Paul said that he feared lest hee had laboured in vaine Gal. 4. 11. I neede not here speake of errors and Heresies creeping in troubling the Church and deceiuing many as in Act. 15. 2. 1. Tim 1. 3 6 7 19. 20. 2. Tim 2. 18 19. 1. Cor. 15. 12. Ephesus fell from her first loue Reu. 2. 4 Pergamus had in her such as vpheld the doctrine of Balaam and of the Nicolaitans Reu. 2 14. Thyatira tolerated Iezabel to reach and seduce Christs seruants Reu. 2. 20. Sardis was an hypocriticall Church and in a dying condition and Laodicea luke-warme rich in conceit but miserable naked blinde and poore in condition Reu. 3. 2 16 17. S. Paul telleth Timothy that all that were in Asia were departed from him 2. Tim. 1. 15. Thus was the Churches state euen in the Apostles dayes By which we may see the Church subiect to erre and to hold the contrary that she cannot erre Antiquitie is against Contraried by Antiquitie Origen Hom. 6. in Ezek. The Citie of God as long as she erreth not or doth not sinne hath God to her Father but when she beginneth to erre her father is an Amorite and her mother an Hittite he then thought she might erre Ierome complaineth in Dialog aduers Lucifer That the whole world groaned and wondered to see it selfe Arian Did not he thinke then that the Church might erre Aug. lib. 2. cap 18. Retract speaking of the Church on earth saith that by reason of ignorance and infirmities of her members the whole Church hath cause to say euery day Forgiue vs our trespasses Basil epist 70. telleth vs that Satan had in his time begun to sow the seedes of Apostasie in those places where the Gospell of the Kingdome first arose vp striuing to spread it into the whole World He speakes of Apostasie which is more then erring What meant Hilarie cont Auxentium when he said The Church is lost and wee are fallen into the time of Antichrist whose ministers do transforme themselues into Angels of light without all feeling or conscience of Christ Vincent Lvren aduers profan Nou. ca. 4. hath said that not only some portion of the Church but the whole Church it selfe is blotted with some new contagion Gainesaid by some of their owne Pope Innocent saith in the Canon Law The Churches Iudgement Decret Greg. li. 3. de sent excom ca. 28. A nobis est saepe Super 5. de sent excom Anobis 2. oftentimes followeth opinion which many times falleth out both to deceiue vs and to be deceiued it selfe Panormitan thus writeth A generall Councell representing the whole Church may erre in excommunicating him that should not bee excommunicate If in a matter of this nature where proofes may bee brought before sentence pronounced how much more in points of a higher nature without the Scripture for the guide A generall Councell is called the whole Church representadue If therfore this erre thē may the Church erre for how can the Churches voyce else be heard except in Can. 6. the Scriptures But by their owne confession generall Councels haue erred for the first Councell at Nice of 318. Bishops made the Bishop of Romes gouernment no more then that of Alexandria That at Ephesus of 200.