single concernment to England Nor is the Question how the Kings Person may be disposed of de facto by any one of the Kingdoms neither is the Question properly de jure posse but de esse bene esse And as it is neither good Logick nor good Divinity to argue a posse ad esse so sure I am in this case it is far worse policie for either Kingdome to dispute what they may do in the height of their power when both are consulting what is sittest to be done for the Peace and Security of both And the relation of both Kingdoms to his Majesty and of each Kingdome to other being rightly considered as he is King to both as both are Subjects to him as both are ingaged in the same Cause and have been in the same War and are labouring under the same Danger are seeking the same Remedies and should have the same Security we do hold that the disposing of the Kings Person doth not properly belong to any one of the Kingdomes but joyntly to both And after Scotland hath suffered the heat of the day and winters cold have forsaken their own peace for love of their Brethren have set their own house on fire to quench theirs After so much expense of their blood in all the three Kingdomes after we have gone along with you in all the hardship of this War and without vanity be it spoken have been so usefull in this Cause And that the King hath cast himself into the hands of the Scottish Army and that by the blessing of God upon the joynt indeavour of both Kingdoms we are come to the harbour of a peace We cannot expect that the honourable Houses will think it agreeable with conscience or honour or with the justice of the Houses that the Person of the King should be disposed of by them as they shall think fit or by any one of the kingdoms alone but that what ever shall be resolved in this may be done by joynt advice of both as may serve most for the peace security and happinesse of both Kingdoms The Lord Charcellour of Scotland his second Speech At a Conference in the Painted Chamber with a Committee of both Houses Octob. 6. 1646. AT our last meeting in this conference your Lordships did assert the Vote of the Houses That the Person of the King should be disposed on as the two Houses shall think fit And we did hold that the King who is the Head and Monarch of both Kingdomes ought not to be disposed of by any one of the Kingdoms but by joynt advice of both as might serve most for the peace happinesse and security of his Majesty and both kingdoms which we fortified with severall arguments from the interests and relations which both Kingdoms have equally to the King and from the covenant and treaty between the Kingdoms as the best way to preserve our Unity But since your Lordships do adhere to the Vote of the Houses as that which you cannot part from We do humbly desire that your Lordships may be pleased in time convenient at the close of this conference to report the difference of our judgement to the honourable Houses who upon better reasons both may and we hope will take their Vote into further consideration And so with reservation of our judgement that the disposing of his Majesties person doth belong to both and not to any one of the Kingdoms especially in such a juncture of affairs as both Kingdoms stand engaged in this cause I shall descend particularly how the Kings Person should be disposed of to the best advantage of both Kingdoms and for attaining such a happy peace as all good men should desire But lest we should walke in the dark upon obscurity of ambiguous words I shall desire that the word of disposing of the Kings person may be rightly understood and the true sense of it may be clearly known For Dolus versatur in universalibus For To dispose of the Kings person as both Houses or both Kingdoms shall think fit may in some sense be to depose or worse But because the word Dispose may admit a more benigne interpretation as when men commit their estates and children or that which is dearest to them to be disposed of which is but to be advised by these who have nearest relation to them and in whom they repose most trust I shall speak of the disposing of his Majesties royal person in that sense which I hope is also the sense of the Houses Nor do I know any other way how his Majesties person can be disposed of but that he be put either under restraint or be at freedom with honour and safety As for the way of restraint I look upon it as it looks upon us as a remedy more dangerous then the disease as a mean to draw the war of forain Kings upon us especially the Prince being in other Kingdoms rather then to quiet our troubles at home And therefore supposing that none of the Kingdoms will take any way concerning his Majesties person but such as may consist with duty and honour and which may lessen and not encrease our troubles I shall lay aside the way of restraint and speak of the way which may be with freedom honour and safety which can be no other but that his Majesty shall go into Scotland or come to his Parliament here or some of his houses near-abouts His going into Scotland is full of dangers and inconveniencies to both Kingdoms The Amalekites are not yet driven out of that I and. The bloody barbarous Irish banded with a wicked crew of Malignants possesse the mountains and high-lands which are the strong holds and never conquered parts of that Kingdom They have not laid down arms but keep in a body together and they are so near Ireland as the Forces of the Rebels there may in two or three houres space come over and joyn with them and Scotland not being able to keep and entertain Armies long the King being there may raise such forces in Scotland as may make way quickly into England And therefore his Majesties going into Scotland before our peace be setled being of most dangerous consequence to both Kingdoms I shall humbly offer to your Lordships consideration his Majesties comming to London or some of his houses hereabouts as the most probable way to procure a speedy and happy agreement which is also his Majesties own desire in his Answer to the Propositions And although no perswasion of ours could prevaile to procure a more satisfactory answer for the time then what is returned to the Houses of Parliament yet I assure your Lordships that the Committee of Estates of the Parliament of Scotland and the Noblemen who were at Newcastle did faithfully contribute their best endeavours that his Majesty might have given his assent to the Propositions And as we did then deliver our minds with that plainnesse and freedom which was fit for faithfull and loyal Subjects with
greater honour then that after you have dissipated your Enemies his Majesty is willing to returne to you And if so kind an offer shall be refused and the King driven to despaire it is to be feared these kingdomes will be involved in greater difficulties then ever and we shal be driven out of the harbour and entrance of a peace into the tempest of new and bloudy wars For although Scotland be most willing and desirous that the King should return to his Parliament with honour safety and freedom and that he may remaine where his personal presence may serve most for the security and happinesse of his people yet if any such course shall be taken or any demand made for rendring of his person which cannot stand with his honour and safety or which cannot consist with our duty allegeance and Covenant nor with the honour of that Army to whom in time of his extreme danger he had his recourse for safety it cannot be expected that we can be capable of so base an Act. And if to shun this and avoid occasion of quarrelling between the Kingdomes he shall go to Scotland and resent his expulsion out of England and crave the assistance of that kingdome for recovery of his right to his crowne He may in a short time raise such Forces in Scotland and Ireland as with the assistance of Foraine Princes these kingdomes may be made a field of bloud and the youngest amongst us not live to see the end of these unnaturall wars But if the present opportunity be wisely mannaged and that we maintain the just priviledges of Parliament and liberty of the Subject in both kingdomes with that wisdome and discretion as that may be given to God which is Gods and to Coesar what is Goesars if we feare God and the King and doe not meddle with them who are given to change That same divine providence and wisdome which hath brought us through many difficulties will also teach us how to establish these kingdomes in peace and the Kings Throne in righteousnesse That the great blessing of a constant and friendly conjunction of the two kingdomes now united by allegeance and loyall subjection to one Soveraigne and Head may be firmly observed and continued to all posterity The Lord Chancellour of Scotland his last speech at a conference in the Painted chamber with a Committee of both Houses October 10.1646 My Lords and Gentlemen THis day I hope will bring our conference to some results to be reported to the Houses and therefore I shall frame my Discourse and Arguments with that succinctnesse as may bring us soonest to a close At our first meeting the subject of our debate was Whether the Right Power of disposing the person of the King is solely in the two Houses as they shall think fit or in the two Kingdoms and at our last meeting we had some arguing about the same question but your Lordships did still assert the Vote of the Houses and we say in respect of the interest and relations which both Kingdoms have equally to the King especially in the present juncture of affairs when both Kingdoms are entred in the same league and covenant have jeoparded their lives in the same war are labouring under the same danger are seeking the same remedies and stand in need of the same peace and security and both Kingdoms are bound by our Covenant to preserve Unity and are obliged by Treaty that none of us shall make any peace cessation or â—greement whatsoever without mutuall advice and consent of both That the person â—f the King cannot be disposed of without the joint advice and consent of both Kingdoms But as we do acknowledge that England hath parity of interest with Scotland so do we still offer that they shall have parity of power in disposing of the King and we do affirm that the person of the King who is King of Scotland as well as of England and is Head and Monarch of both kingdoms cannot be disposed of by any one of the kingdoms alone but what ever is to be done concerning the disâ—osing of his Majesties person ought to be done by joynt advice and common consent of both as may serve most for the Peace security and happinesse of the King and Kingdomes which we did prove by severall Arguments To which there was nothing answered in effect but that the King being within England his person was to be disposed of as the two Houses shall thinke fit and that the King being with the Scottish Army and they being paid by the Parliament of England he is in effect in the power of the Houses and ought to be at their disposing in the same way as if he had come to the army of Sir Thomas Fairfax or any other of the Parliaments armies To which we shall not need to make any reply other then we have made already I hat the Kings present residence in England nor no locality can take away the reality of our relations formerly mentioned by us far lesse can it take away the engagements and stipulations between the kingdoms and though the Scottish a my be paid by the Parliament of England yet they are the Army of Scotland raised for pursuance of the ends of the Covenant and are to be ordered and directed by the Parliaments or committees of both kingdoms and therefore they cannot with conscience duty nor honour deliver the person of the King without his own consent to be disposed of as the two Houses shall think fit but we have declared and do still declare that we are content that the person of the King be disposed of the word Disposed being taken in a right sense as may serve most for the peace safety security honour and happinesse of the King and both kingdoms and did offer to your Lordships consideration his Majesties comming to or neer London as the most probable means to procure a speedy and well-grounded peace And seeing your Lordships have done us the honour to meet with us in this free and brotherly conference we do expect that you wil concur and assent to this proposition or propound a better expedient for the good of both kingdoms But if the honourable houses will not admit of this proposition our next desire is that it may appear no lawfull and possible means are left unassayed which may procure a happy agreement betwixt the King his Paâ—liaments and for our further exoneration that Commissioners may yet once more be sent from both Kingdoms to his Majesty to shew the meaning of our Propositions to assert them and to hear the Kings doubts difficulties and desires who may further intimate that if his Majesty shall not give a satisfactory answer to the propositions then both Kingdoms will without making any such further application to him take such course as they shall judge fittest for the peace and security of the kingdoms And as at the opening of this conference I did begin with an humble lawfull
and laudable desire for unity in relation to Religion the King and amongst our selves so shal I close in the same dialect For the first of Religion if we do remember our vows to God to perform them and shall endeavour really constantly and sincerely the reformation of religion and uniformity according to our Covenant we may certainly expect that God will crown this great work wherein he hath honored us to be actors with his blessing but if in place of uniformity which we are obliged to endeavour there shall be a toleration of all sects and sorts of religion and if we neglect to build the house of God and become insolent upon our successes although we could mount up with Eagles wings and build our nests as high as the startes and had an army who for valour and strength could march to Constantinople God shall lay our glory low in the dust and suffer the work to fall in our hands like the confusion of Babel And whatever hath been moved by us concerning the King we desire it may be rightly constructed as proceeding from such as have not wavered from their first principles for when the King was in the height of his power we did not and I hope never shall flatter him and when the enemy was in the height of their pride and strength Scotland did fear no colours and now when the King is at his lowest ebbe and hath cast himself into our army for safety we hope your Lordships will pardon us from our sense of honour and duty to be very tender of the person and posterity of the King to whom we have so many neer relations and not like the worse of us that we cannot so far forget our allegiance and duty as not to have an antipathy against the change of Monarchical government in which we have lived through the descent of so many Kings and under which both kingdoms have been governed so many ages and flourished In all happinesse And now my last word shall be for constant unity between the kingdoms which as it hath been the chief means to promote the great work wherein both kingdoms are so deeply engaged so there is nothing can make us so formidable to our enemies nor so much aiding one to another as the cherishing and continuing thereof and I dare say that no man would divide the one from the other but such as desire to fish in troubled waters and are reall enemies to both God hath blest the joint endeavours of both Nations both are in one ship and are come through a very great storm and now when we are come into the harbour it would be great shame to both to split upon the rocks of division devorato bove deficere in causa and your Lordships may be confident that Scotland who have esteemed no hazard too great for setling of Religion and love to their Brethren will stick so fast and firmly to you so long as you hold the principles of your Covenant as no fear nor favour will ever be able to divide them from you and we do expect that reciprocal amity which may perpetuate our unity The Lord Chancellour of Scotland his Speech to the Kings Majesty at Newcastle YOur Majesty was pleased on Monday last to cal the Lords of your Privy counsel of Scotland the Committee to acquaint them with the Propositions told that before the delivery of your answer you would make the same known to them The time assigned for the stay of the commissioners is so short the conseâ—uence of your Majesties answer is of so great importance either for the preservation 〈◊〉 ruine of your Crown and Kingdoms as we could not be answerable to God nor to â—ut trust reposed in us unlesse we represent to your Majesty how necessary it is as the â—ondition of affairs now stand and in so great an extremity that your Majesty should â—ssent to the Propositions and that the danger and losse of your refusall will be reâ—edilesse and bring on sudden ruine and destruction I shall begin first with the last which is the danger and shall next speak a word of â—e remedy The differences between your Majesty and your Parliament which no â—an knows better then your Majesties selfe are grown to such a heighth that after any bloody battels there is no cure but a present peace otherwise nothing can be â—…pected but certain destruction The Parliamsent is possest of your Navy and of all 〈◊〉 Forts garisons strong holds of the kingdom they have the Excise assessements 〈◊〉 sequestrations at their disposal have authority to raise all the men mony in the â—ingdom and after many victories and great successes they have a strong Army on â—…ot and are now in such a posture for strength and power as they are in a capacity do what they will both in Church and State some are so afraid others so unwilâ—…g to submit themselves to your Majesties government as they desire not you nor â—…y of your race longer to reign over them Yet the people are so wearied of the wars 〈◊〉 great burthens they groan under are so desirous of peace and loth to have Monarâ—…al government under which they have lived so long in peace plenty changed a such as are unwearied of your Maiesties government dare not attempt to cast it â—…lly off till once they send Propositions of peace to your Majesty lest the people â—…ithout whose concurrence they are not able to carry on their design should fall â—…m them And therefore all the people being desirous that after so great wars and â—…ubles they may have a perfect security from oppression and arbitrary power the â—…uses of Parliament have resolved upon the Propositions which are tendred to your â—…jesty as that without which the Kingdom and your people cannot be in safety 〈◊〉 most part of the people think that there cannot be a firm peace upon any other â—…mes Your Majesties friends and the commissioners from Scotland after all the â—…stling we could were forced to consent to the sending those Propositions or to â—…ated as the hinderers of peace and to send no Propositions at all And now Sir if 〈◊〉 Majesty which God forbid shall refuse to assent to the Propositions you will â—…all your friends lose the City and all the country and all England will joyn â—…nst you as one man and when al hope of reconciliation is past it is to be feared will processe and depose you and set up another Government they will charge 〈◊〉 deliver your Majesty to them and to render the Northern garrisons and to reâ—…e our Army out of England upon your Majesties refusing of the Propositions 〈◊〉 Kingdoms will be constrained for their mutual safety to agree settle Religiâ—… 〈◊〉 nd Peace without you which to our unspeakable grief will ruine your Majesty your posterity and if your Majesty reject our faithfull advice who desire noâ—…g on earth more then the establishmrnt of your Majesties throne and lose Eng 〈◊〉 by your wilfulnes your Majesty wil not be permitted to come ruine Scotland 〈◊〉 We have laid our hand upon our hearts we have asked counsell and direction 〈◊〉 God and have had our most serious thoughts about the Remedy but can find â—…her as affairs stand for the present to save your Crown and Kingdoms then Majesties assenting to the Propositions We dare not say but they are higher in some things if it were in our power and option to remedy it then we do approve of but when we see no other meanes for curing the distempers of the Kingdoms and closing the breaches between your Majesty and your Parliament Our most humble and faithful advice is that your Majesty would be graciously pleased to assenâ— to them as the only best way to procure a speedy and happy peace because your Majesty shall thereby have many great advantages You will be received again in youâ— Parliament with the applause and acclamations of your People by your Royall presence your friends will be strengthened Your enemies who fears nothing so much as the granting the Propositions will be weakened your Majesty will havâ— a fit opportunity to offer such Propositions as you shall in your wisdome judgâ— fit for the Crown and Kingdom all Armies will be disbanded and youâ— people finding the sweet fruits of your peaceable Government your Majesty will gain their hearts and affections which will be your strength and glory and will recover all that your Majesty hath lost in this time of tempest and trouble And if it please God so to incline your Royal heart to this advice of your humbâ—… and faithfull servants who next to the honour of God esteem nothing more precâ—ous then the safety of your person and crown Our actions shall quickly make appear to all the world That we esteem no hazard too great for your Majesties saâ—â—ty and that we are willing to sacrifice our lives and fortunes for establishing your Throne And now Sir we prostrate our selves at your Majesties feet and in the lowest pâ—sture of humility do beg That your Majesty may in end grant the suit of your 〈◊〉 humble servants and faithfull subjects who have no private aimes but only the gâ—…ry of God and safety of your Majesties person posterity and crown before 〈◊〉 eyes And the granting of our desires will revive our fainting spirits refresh our hearts which are overwhelmed and like to break with sorrow and will turn prayers and tears of the many thousands of your people in prayses to God and mâ—… them embrace your Majesty with acclamations of joy FINIS
no lesse regard to this Kingdom then our own Nation so are we now with the same candor and tendernesse of affection willing and ready to concurre with the honourable Houses in every thing which may promote the great work of Reformation and settle Religion according to the Covenant with a well grounded peace And for these ends we desire that his Majesties answer may be improved to the best advantage of the publick For albeit the King hath not given a present assent to the Propositions yet he hath not in his answer refused them but doth promise That he will cheerfully grant and give his assent unto all such Bils at the desire of the two Houses and reasonable demands for Scotland which shall be really for the good and peace of his people To which end he desireth and proposeth that he may come to London or any of his houses thereabouts upon security That he shall be there with honour freedome and safety as the best expedient to procure a happy agreement between his Majesty and his Parliament which we desire may be weighed in the ballance of righteous judgement as a businesse of the greatest consequence which can fall within humane consideration and wherein the glory of God is most concerned of any businesse under heaven For upon a blessed agreement between the King and his Parliament Religion and Righteousnesse Truth and Peace which are the compend and height of all happinesse will be established to the eternall fame and glory of great Britain and the great comfort of all the Protestant churches And upon our disagreement all the calamities of a bloody and unnaturall war will be continued and nothing heard nor seen in church nor State but confusion God hath brought both Kingdomes through the surges and waves of a boisterous tempest into the harbour of a peace and hath scattered most part of our Enemies now our work is how to come a-shoare establish a right peace I hope it is as far from our desires and intentions as it is against our Covenent and Professions to change fundamentall government We have need to take heed that we run not from one extream into another Dum stulti vitant vitia in contraria currunt Therefore our study would be how to cure the wound which our sins and the evill counsels of others have made between the King and his Parliament to make up the breach and not make it wider It hath been universally acknowledged That the Kings removall from his Parliament is the immediate and chiefe cause of all the war mischiefe and calamities of the kingdomes Then his Majesties presence in joyning with his Parliament must be the best if not the onely remedy to remove our traubles for it is a maxime no lesse true then common that Contraries have Contrary consequents Contrariâ—…rum contâ—…tia sunt câ—…sequentia The King desires to come to his Parliament not onely to have his doubts clecred and have these difficulties explained which hinder his consent to the Propositions as they now stand But likewise that his coming may raise a mutuall confidence between him and his Parliament If the last were done the first would soon be performed and all those mountaines of difficulties would easily be removed and become valleys Your Commissioners had no power to give any reasons no not so much as tell what is the meaning of any of your demands nor hearken to any desire of the Kings And certainly some things might be justly moved by his Majesty which are necessary for the Crowne and a well grounded Peace as That he may have his Revenues That he may returne with honour and safety to his crowne and government And if the King were with his Parliament where hee might both give and receive satisfaction he might with reason be convinced to assent to what hee now conceives to be unreasonable The making of a peace is so great and glorious a worke and so acceptable to all good men and to the whole people that it would after so great trouble be like raine to the new mowne grasse or like a resurrection from the dead and is a worke worthy of a Kings presence And the King may without arrogancy desire that glory to himselfe the more to reingratiate him to his people and not devolve that honour wholly to any other wherein he himselfe ought to be the prime Actor And therefore the Kings presence with his Parliament is the most probable way to attaine to a speedy and blessed peace which certainly will be the more durable if it be with the good liking of both sides I know there is one common objection and I know not another wherewith many are possest and prejudiced against the Kings coming to his Parliament That his presence may breed division and that he may thereafter withdraw and continue our troubles Vnity and Concord I confesse is that by which Kingdoms and Common-wealths do flourish and there is nothing more dangerous then division Concordia enim res parvae cresunt discordia vero maximae dilabuntur But is there any greater or more dangerous division then to have the Head devided from the body go have the King divided from his Parliament the representative body of the kingdome whereof he is the Head Hath not this division divided brother against brother the father against the son and the son against the father and Countrey against countrey This division is the cause of all our other divisions Take this away and all cur other divisions are at an end Ablata causa tollitur effectus The King doth with all earnestnesse desire to be joyned with you and stands more in need of recâ—â—ciliation and I hope will according to his profession endeavour it rather then division And I trust the wisdom of the honourable Houses is such as they will doe so too and rather be reconciled to the King then divide amongst our selves And that argument not to admit of the Kings coming to his Parliament because his presence may breed division is an argument to debarre him perpetually from his Parliement And now the case is altered from what it was when it was thought unfit that the King should come to his Parliament because then he had forces in the fields garisons and strong holds to return to Now he hath none of these against you And his desire of coming to his Parliament cannot be but with resolution to agree and stay with you for if he were once with you where can he go from you And if they were esteemed enemies to the Parliament and the peace of the kingdoms who advised the King to withdraw from his Parliament what estimation will the world have of them who will not suffer him to returne to his Parliament when he offers to cast himselfe in your armes Nor can there be a more reall testimony of our respect and affection to England then that we desire he may be with you and be advised by you neither can you have any