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A29489 A review of Doctor Bramble, late Bishop of Londenderry, his Faire warning against the Scotes disciplin by R.B.G. Baillie, Robert, 1599-1662. 1649 (1649) Wing B466; ESTC R10694 70,498 112

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as to charge him to perseveer in the maintainance of Episcopall governement upon all hazards without the change of any thing except a little p. 278. and to assure that all Covenanters are of a faction engaged into a Religious rebellion who may never be trusted till they have repented of their Covenant and that till then never lesse loyalty justice or humanity may be expected from any then from them that if hee stand in need of them hee is undone for they will devoure him as the Serpent does the dove These and the like pernicious maximes framed by an Episcopall hand of purpose to separat for ever the King from all his covenanted subjects how farr they were from the heart language and wrytings of our late Soveraigne all who were aquainted with his carriage and most intime affections at New-Castle in the Isle of Wight and thereafter can testify But it is reason when the Praelats doe frame an image of a King that they should have liberty to place their owne image in its forheade as the statuary of old did his in the Boss of Pallas targe with such artifice that all her worshipers were necessitat to worship him and that no hand was able to destroy the one without the disfolution and breaking in peeces of the other yet our Praelats would know that in this age there be many excellent Engyneers whose witty practicks transcend the most skilfull experiments of our Auncestors and what ever may be the ignorance or weaknes of men wee trust the breath of our Lords mouth will not faile to blow out the Bishop from the Kings armes without any detriment at all to royalty Allwayes the wicked and impious cunning of these craftsemen is much to be blamed who dare be bold to insert and engrave themselfes so deeply in the images of the Gods as the one cannot be intended to be picked out of the other more then the Aple from the eye unles the subsistance of both be put in hazard The other matter of his rayling against us is the solemne league and covenant The only crime of the Covenant is that it extirpate praelacy when this nimble and quick enough Doctor comes assisted with all the reasons the whole University of Oxford can afford him to demonstrat it as he professes in his last Chapter to be wicked false void and what not wee find his most demonstrative proofes to be so poor and silly that they infere nothing of his conclusion To this day no man has shewed any errour in the mater of that covenant as for our framing and taking of it our adversaries drave us thereunto with a great deale of necessity and now being in it neither their fraud nor force may bring us from it againe for we feare the oath of God After much deliberation we found that covenant the soveraigne meanes to joyne and keep together the whole orthodox party in the three Kingdomes for the defence of their Religion and Liberties which a popish praelaticall and malignant faction with all their might were overturning who still to this day are going on in the same designe without any visible change in the most of their former principles And why should any who loves the King hate this covenant which is the straytestty the world can devise to knit all to him and his posterity if so be his Majestie might be pleased to enter therein but by all meanes such a mischiefe must be averted for so the roote of Episcopacy would quickly wither without any hope of repullulation an evill farr greater in the thoughts of them who now mannage the conscience of the Court thē the extirpation of Monarchy the eversion of all the three Kingdomes or any other earthly misery As for the third subject of the Warners fury against us The Bishops are most justly cast out of England our unkindnes to the late King if any truth were in this false challenge no other creature on earth could be supposed the true cause thereof but our unhappy praelats all our grievances both of Church and State first and last came principally from them had they never been authors of any more mischiefe then what they occasioned to our late Soveraigne his person family and Dominions this last dozn of yeares there is abundant reason of burying that their praeter and Antiscripturall order in the grave of perpetuall infamy But the truth is beside more auncient quarrels since the dayes of our fathers the Albigenses this limb of Antichrist has ever been witnessed against Wickleif Huss and their followers were zealous in this charge till Luther and his disciples got it flung out of all the reformed world except England where the violence of the ill advised princes did keep it up for the perpetuall trouble of that land till now at last it hath well neare kicked downe to the ground there The Scots were never injurious to their King both Church and Kingdome As for the point in hand we deny all unkindnes to our King whereof any reasonable complaint can be framed against us Our first contests stand justified this day by King and Parliament in both Kingdomes When his Majestie was so ill advised as to bring downe upon our borders an English army for to punish our refusing of a world of novations in our Religion contrary to the lawes of God and of our country what could our land doe lesse then lie downe in their armes upon Dunce law for their just and necessary defence when it was in their power with ease to haue dissipat the opposit army they shew themselves most ready upon very easy conditions to goe home in peace and gladly would have rested there had not the furious Bishops moved his Majestie without all provocation to breake that first peace and make for a second invasion of Scotland only to second their unreasonable rage was it not then necessary for the Scots to arme againe when they had deseate the Episcopall Army and taken Newcastle though they found nothing considerable to stand in their way to London yet they were content to lie still in Northumberland and upon very meane tearnes to returne the second time in peace For all this the praelats could not give it over but raised a new Army and filled England with fire and sword yea well neere subdued the Parliament and their followers and did almost accomplish their first designes upon the whole Isle The Scots then with most earnest and pitifull entreaties were called upon by their Brethren of England for helpe where unwilling that their brethren should perish in their sight and a bridge should be made over their carcasses for a third warre upon Scotland when after long tryall they had found all their intercessions with the King for a moderat and reasonable accommodation slighted and rejected they suffered themselves to be perswaded to enter in covenant with their oppressed and fainting brethren for the mantainance of the common cause of Religion and liberty but with
ordine ad Spiritualia for an assembly to give their advice in a most eminent and important case of conscence when earnestly called upon in a multitude of supplications from the most of the Congregations under their charge yea when required by the States of the Kingdome in severall expresse messages for that end It seemes it s our Warners conclusion if the Magistrat would draw all the Churches in his jurisdiction to a most unlawfull warre for the advancement of the greatest impiety and unjustice possible wherein nothing could be expected by all who were engaged therein but the curse of God if in this case a doubting Natione should desire the assemblies counsel for the state of their soules or if the Magistrate would put the Church to declare what were lawfull or unlawfull according to the word of God that it were necessary heer for the servants of God to be altogether silent because indeed warre is so civill a busines that nothing in it concernes the soule and nothing about it may be cleered by any light from the word of God The truth is the Church in their publick papers to the Parliament declared oftner then once that they were not against but for an engagement if so that Christian and friendly treaties could not have obtained reason and all the good people in Scotland were willing enough to have hazarded their lives and estates for vindicating the wrongs done not by the Kingdome of England but by the sectarian party there against God the King covenant and both Kingdomes but to the great griefe of their hearts their hands were bound and they forced to sit still and by the over great cunning of some the erroneous mis-perswasions of others and the rash praecipitancy of it that engagement was so spoiled in the stating and mannaging that the most religious with peace of conscience could not goe along nor encourage any other to take part therein The Warner touches on three of their reasons but who will looke upon their publick declarations shall find many more which with all faithfullnesse were then propounded by the Church for the rectifying of that action which as it stood in the state and managment was cleerly foretold to be exceeding like to destroy the King and his friends of all sorts in all the three Kingdomes The irreparable losses and unutterable calamities which quickly did follow at the heeles the misbeleefe and contempt of the Lords servants and the great danger religion is now brought unto in al these Kingdomes hes I suppose long agoe brought griefe enough to the heart of them whose unadvised rashnes and intemperate fervour did contribute most for the spoiling of that designe The first desire about that engagement which the Warner gives to us concernes the security of religion In all the debate of that matter it was aggreed without question upon all hands that the Sectarian party deserved punishment for their wicked attemptes upon the Kings persone contrary to the directions of the Parliamentes of both Kingdomes and that the King ought to be rescued out of their hands and brought to one of his houses for perfecting the treaty of peace which often had been begunne but here was the question Whither the Parliament and Army of Scotland ought to declare their resolutiones to bring his Majestie to London with honour freedome and safty before he did promise any security for establishing Religion The Parliaments of both Kingdomes in all their former treaties had ever pressed upon the King a number of propositions to be signed by his Majestie before at all he came to London was it then any fault in the Church of Scotland to desire the granting but of one of these propositions concerning Religion and the covenant before the King were brought by the new hazard of the lives and estats of all the Scottish nation to sit in his Parliament in that honnor and freedome which himselfe did desire There was no complaint when many of thirty propositions were pressed to be signed by his Majestie for satisfaction and security to his people after so great and long desolations how then is an out-cry made when all other propositions are postponed and only one for Religion is stuck upon and that not before his Majesties rescue and deliverance from the hands of the sectaries but only before his bringing to London in honor freedom and safety This demande to the Warner is a crime and may be so to all of his beleefe who takes it for a high unjustice to restraine in any King the absolute power by any condition for they doe mantaine that the administration of all things both of Church and state does reside so freely and absolutly in the meere will of a Soveraigne that no case at any time can fall out which ought to bound that absolutnesse with any limitation The second particular the Warner pitches upon is the Kings negative voyce behold how criminous we were in the point When some most needlesly would needs bring into debate the Kings negative voyce in the Parliament of England as one of the royall praerogatives to bee maintained by our engagement it was said that all discourse of that kynde might bee laid aside as impertinent for us if any debate should chance to fall upon it the proper place of it was in a free Parliament of England that our Lawes did not admit of a negative voyce to the King in a Parliament of Scotland and to presse it now as a prerogative of all Kings besides the reflection it might have upon the rights of our Kingdome it might put in the hand of the King a power to deny all and every one of these things which the Parliaments of both Kingdomes had found necessary for the setling the peace in all the three dominions Wee marvail not that the Warner heere should taxe us of a great errour seeing it is the beleefe of his faction that every King hath not onely a negative but an absolute affirmative voyce in all their Parliaments as if they were nothing but their arbitrary counsels for to perswade by their reasons but not to conclude nor impede any thing by their votes the whole and intire power of making or refusing Lawes being in the Prince alone and no part of it in the Parliament The Warners third challenge against us about the ingagement is as if the Church had taken upon it to nominate the officers of the army and upon this he makes his invectives Ans The Church was farre from seeking power to nominate any one officer but the matter was thus when the State did require of them what in their judgement would give satisfaction to the people and what would encourage them to goe along in the ingagement one and the last parte of their answer was that they conceived if a Warre shal be found necessarie much of the peoples encouragement would depend upon the qualification of the commanders to whom the mannaging of that great trust should be committed for after
curtisan Bishops against the highest civil judicatories in England but that ever a Presbitry or Synode in Scotland did so much as assay to impede or repeale the proceedings of any the meanest civil court I did never heare it so much as alleaged by our adversaries The nixt injury is against all Masters Serious catechising is no Episcopal crime and Mistresses of families whom the Presbytery will have to be personally examined in their knowledge once a yeare and to be excommunicat if grosly and wilfully ignorant Ans If it bee a crime for a Minister to call together parcels of his congre gation to be instructed in the grounds of Religion that servants and children and where ignorance is suspected others also may be tryed in their knowledge of the Catechisme or if it bee a crime that in family-visitations oftener then once a yeare the conversation of every member of the Church may be looked upon we confesse the Ministers of Scotland were guilty thereof and so farre as we know the generality of the Episcopall faction may purge themselves by oath of any such imputation for they had somewhat else to doe then to be at the pains of instructing or trying the Spirituall State of every sheep in their flocks we confesse likewise that it is both our order and practise to keep off from the holy table whom wee find groslly and wilfully ignorant but that ever any for simple ignorance was excommunicat in Scotland none who knowes us will affirme it The last whom he will have to be wronged by the Presbytery are the common people Church fessions are not high commissiones who must groane under a high commission in every parish where ignorant governors rule all without Law medling even in domesticall jarres be twixt man and wife Master and Servant Ans This is but a gybe of revenge for the overthrow of their Tyrannous high Commission-Court where they were wont to play the Rex at their pleasure above the highest subjects of the three Kingdoms and would never give over that their insolent domeneering court till the King and Parliaments of both Kingdomes did agree to throw it down about their eares The thing he jeares at is the congregation all Eldership a judicatory which all the Reformed doe enjoy to their great confort as much as Scotland They are farre from all arbitrary judications their Lawes are the holy Scripture and acts of superior Church-judicatories which rule so clearly the cases of their cognisance that rarely any difficulty remaines therein or if it doe immediatly by reference or appeal it is transmitted to the Classes or Synode The judges in the lowest Eldership as wee have said before are a doszen at least of the most able and pious who can bee hade in a whole congregation to joine with the Pastors one or more as they fall to be but the Episcopall way is to have no discipline at all in any congregation only where there is hope of a fyne the Bishops officiall will summon before his owne learned and conscientious wisedome who ever within the whole dioces have fallen into such a fault as hee pleaseth to take notice of as for domestick infirmities Presbyterians are most tender to medle therein they come never before any judicatory but both where the fault is great and the scandal thereof flagrant and broken out beyond the wals of the family These are the great injuries and hurts which the Church discipline has procured to all orders of men in the whole reformed world when Episcopacy has been such an innocent lambe or rather so holy an angel upon earth that no harme at all has ever come by it to any mortall creature a misbeleeving Jew will nothing misdoubt this so evident a truth CHAP. ULT. The Warners exceptions against the covenant are full of considence but exceeding frivolous THough in the former Chapters the Warner has shewed out more venome and gall then the bagge of any one mans stomack could have been supposed capable of yet as if he were but beginning to vomite in this last Chapter of the covenant a new flood of blacker poyson rusheth out of his pen. His undertaking is great to demonstrat cleerly that the covenant is meerly void wicked and impious His first clear demonstration is that it was devised by strangers imposed by subjects who wanted requisite power and was extorted by just feare of unjust suffering so that many that took it with their lips never consented with their hearts Ans This cleer demonstration is but a poor and evill argument the Major if it were put in forme would hardly be granted The Covenant was not dishonourable to union but I stand on the minor as weake and false for the covenant was not devised by strangers the Commissioners of the Parliament of England together with the Commissioners of the Parliament and generall assembly of Scotland were the first and only framers thereof but they who gave the life and being to it in England were the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament at West-Minister by the Kings call and at that time acknowledged by his Majestie without any question about the lawfullnes of their constitution and authority these men and that Court were not I hope great strangers in England The covenant was not imposed upon the King but the Parliaments of both Kingdomes made it their earnest desire unto his Majestie that he would be pleased to joyne with them in that Covenant which they did judge to be a maine peece of their security for their Religion and liberties in all the three Kingdomes As for their imposing of it upon the subjects of England an ordinance of Parliament though the King consent not by the uncontroverted lawes of England is a sufficient authority to crave obedience of all the subjects of England during the continuance of that Parliament The last part of the demonstration is dishonorable indeed to the English Nation if it were true it was no dishonour to England to joyne with their brethren of Scotland in a Covenant for mantainance of their Religion and Liberties but for many of the English to sweare a covenant with their lippes from which their heart did dissent and upon this difference of heart and mouth to plead the nullity of the oath and to advance this plea so high as to a cleer demonstration this is such a dishonour and dishonesty that a greater cannot fall upon a man of reputed integrity Especially when the ground of the lie and perjury is an evident falshood for the covenant was not extorted from any flesh in England by feare of any unjust suffering so far was it from this that to this day it could never be obtained from the Parliament of England to enjoyne that covenant upon any by the penulty of a two pence The Warners second demonstration is no better then the first the ground of it is Covenanters were not deceived but understood what they sweare that all oathes are void which
have deceipt and errour of the substantiall conditions incident to them This ground had need to be much better cautioned then heere it is before it can stand for a major of a clear demonstration but how is the minor proved behold how much short the Warners proofes are of his great boastings His first argument is grounded upon an evident falshood that in the Covenant we sweare the lately devised discipline to be Christs institution Ans There is no such word nor any such matter in all the Covenant was the Warners hatred so great against that peece of write that being to make cleare demonstrations against it hee would not so much as cast his eye upon that which he was to oppugne Covenanters sweare to endeavour the reformation of England according to the word of God and the best reformed Churches but not a word of the Scotes Presbytery nor of any thing in any Church even the best reformed unlesse it be found according to the paterne of Gods holy word The second ground of his demonstrantion is also an evident errour The Warner unwittingly comends the Covenant that the covenant in hand is one and the same with that of King Iames. Ans Such a fancy came never in the head of any man I know much lesse was it ever writen or spoken by any that the Covenant of King Iames in Scotland 1580 should bee one and the same with the Covenant of all the three Kingdomes 1643 whatsoever identities may appeare in the matter and similitude in the ends of both but the grossest errors are solide enough grounds for praelaticall clear demonstrations Yet heere the Warner understands not how hee is cutting his own vines his friends in Scotland will give him small thanks for attributing unto the nationall Covenant of Scotland that Covenant of King Iames these three properties that it was issued out by the Kings authority that it was for the maintenance of the Lawes of the realme and for the maintenance of the established Religion tyme brings adversaries to confesse of their own accord long denyed truthes But the Characters which the Warner inprints upon the solemne league and Covenant of the three Kingdomes wee must bee pardoned to controvert till he have taken some leasure to trie his wilde assertions First that the league is against the authority of the King secondly that it is against the Law and thirdly that it is for the overthrow of Religion The man cannot think that any should beleeve his dictats of this kind without proofe since the expresse words of that league do flatly contradict him in all these three positions His gentle memento that Scotland when they sued for aid from the crowne of England had not the English discipline obtruded upon their Church might heer have been spaired was not the English discipline and liturgy obtruded upon us by the praelats of England with all craft and force did we ever obtrude our disciplin upon the English but when they of their owne free and long deliberate choice had abolished Bishops and promised to set up Presbytery so far as they had found it agreable to the word of God were wee not in all reason obliged to encourage and assist them in so pious a work In the nixt words the Warner for all his great boasts finding the weaknes of all the former grounds of his seconde demonstration The King did not clame the sole and absolute possession of the militia he offers three new ones which doubtles will doe the deid for he avowes positively that his following grounds are demonstrative yet whosoever shal be pleased to grip them with never so soft an hand shall find them all to be but vanity and wind The first after a number of prosyllogismes rests upon these two foundations first that the right of the militia resides in the King alone secondly that by the covenant the militia is taken out of the Kings hands and that every covenanter by his covenant disposes of himselfe and of his armes against the right which the King hath into him Ans The Warner will have much adoe to prove this second so that it may be a ground of a clear demonstration but for the first that the power of the militia of England doth reside in the King alone that the two houses of Parliament have nothing at all to doe with it and that their taking of armes for the defence of the liberties of England or any other imaginable cause against any party countenanced by the Kings presence against his lawes must be altogether unlawfull if his demonstration be no clearer then the ground where upon he builds it I am sure it will not be visible to any of his oppofits who are not like to be convinced of open rebellion by his naked assertion upon which alone he layes this his mighty ground Beleeve it he had need to assay its releefe with some colour of ane argument for none of his owne friends will now take it of his hand for ane indemonstrable principle since the King for a long time was willing to acknowledge the Parliaments jointe interest in the militia yea to put the whole militia in their hands alone for a good number of yeares to come so farre was his Majestie from the thoughts that the Parliaments medling with a parte of the militia in the time of evident dangers should be so certainly and clearly the crime of rebellion The Warners second demonstrative ground wee admit without question in the major that where the matter is evidently unlawfull the oath is not binding but the application of this in the minor is very false All that hee brings to make it appeare to be true is that the King is the supreame Legislator that it is unlawfull for the subjects of England to change any thing established by Law especially to the prejudice of the Praelats without their own consent they being a third order of the Kingdom otherwise it would be a harder measure then the Friers and Abbots received from Henry the eight The change of lawes in England ordinarly beginne by the two houses without the King Ans May the Warner be pleased to consider how farre his dictats heere are from all reason much more from evident demonstrations That the burden of Bishops and ceremonies was become so heavy to all the three Kingdomes that there was reason to endeavour their laying aside he does not offer to dispute but all his complanit runnes against the manner of their removall this say I was done in no other then the ordinary and high path-way whereby all burdensome Lawes and customes use to be removed Doth not the Houses of Parliament first begin with their ordinance before the Kings consent be sought to a Law is not an ordinance of the Lords and Commons a good warrant to change a former Law during the sitting of the Parliament The Lawes and customes of England permit not the King by his dissent to stoppe that change The
alwayes by the chancelor his Commissioner was present and in the act for subscription Sess 10. Augusti 8. it is expresly said that not only all the Ministers but also all the Commissioners praesent did consent among which Commissioners the chancelor his Majesties Commissioner was chief But neither the King nor the Church could get it to passe the Parliament in regaird of the opposition which some States-men did make unto these parts thereof which touched on their owne interest of unjust advantage this was the only stick The next instance of the Churches encroachement is their usurpation of all the old rents of the clergy The Warners hipocrisy calling that a crime which himselfe counts a virtue as the Churches patrimony and their decerning in anassembly that nothing in the nixt Parliament should passe before the Church were fully restored to her rents Ans Consider heere the Warners hypocrisie and unjustice he challenges the Presbiterians for that which no praelate in the world did ever esteem a fault a meer declaration of their judgement that the Church had a just right to such rents as by law and long possession were theirs and not taken away from them by any lawfull meanes What if heere they had gone on with the most of the praelaticall party to advance that right to a jus divinum what if they had put themselves by a command from Court into the possession of that right without a processe as diverse of the Warners friends were begun lately to doe in all the three Kingdomes but all that he can here challenge the Scotes for is a meere declaration of their simple right with a supplication to the Regent his grace that hee would indeavour in the nixt Parliament to procure a ninth part of the Churches patrimony for the mantainance of the ministry and the poore of the country for all the rent that the Churches then could obtaine or did petition was but a third of the thirds of the benefices or tithes That ever any assembly in Scotland did make any other addresse to the Parliament for stipends then by way of humble supplication it is a great untruth The last instance is the erecting of Presbyteries through al the Kingdome by an act of the Church alone Ans I have showne already the untruth of this alleadgeance the proofe heere brought for it is grounded only upon an ambiguous word which the Warners ignorance in the Scotish disciplin and Presbitery though the maine subject of his booke permits him not to understand The Presbyteries were set up by the King after the assembly 1580 but the second booke of discipline of which alone the citation speaks how ever enjoind by many assemblies yet it could never be gotten ratified in any Parliament only because of these parts of it which did speake for the patrimony of the Church and oppugne the right of patronages How well the Warner hath proven the Presbiterian practises to be injurious to the Magistrate we have considered The Warner a grosse Erastian possibly he will bee more happy in his nixt undertaking in his demonstrations that their doctrinall principles doe trample on the Magistrats supremacy and Lawes their first principle hee takes out of the second book of disciplin Cap. 7. That no Magistrat nor any but Ecclesiastick persons may vote in Synods Ans Though I find nothing of this in the place cited yet there is nothing in it that crosseth either the Laws or the Kings supremacy for according to the acts of Parliament of Scotland both old and late and the constant practise of that Church the only members of Presbyteries are Ministers and ruling elders Is it the Warners minde to vent here his super-Erastianisme that all Ecclesiastick assemblies Classicall Provinciall nationall are but the arbitrary Courts of the Magistrat for to advise him in the execution of his inhaerent power about matters Ecclesiasticall and for this cause that it is in his arbitrement to give a decisive voyce in all Church assemblies to whom and how many so ever hee will Though this may bee the Warners minde as it hath been some of his friends yet the most of the praelaticall party will not man taine him heerein How ever such principles are contrary to the Lawes of Scotland to the professions also and practises of all the Princes and Magistrats that ever have lived there But the Warner heere may possibly glaunce at another principle of his good friends Praelatical principles impossibilitate alsolid peace betwixt the King and his Kingdoms who have been willing lately to vent before al Britaine in print their Elevating the supremacy of Soveraignes so far above Lawes that what ever people have obtained to bee established by never so many assemblies and Parliaments and confirmed with never so many great seales of ratification and peaceably injoyed by never so long a possession yet it is nothing but commendable wisedome and justice for the same Prince who made the first concessions or any of his successors when ever they find themselfes strong enough to cancell all and make void what ever Parliaments Assemblies royall ratifications and the longest possession made foolish people beleeve to be most firme and unquestionable To this purpose Bishop Maxwel from whom much of this warning is borrowed doth speak in his Sacro-Sancta regum Majestas Though this had been the Cabine divinity of our praelats yet what can be their intentions in speaking of it out in these times of confusion themselves must declare for the cleare consequente of such doctrine seemes to be a necessity either of such Warners perpetuall banishment from the Courts and eares of Soveraignes or else that subjects be kept up for ever in a strong jealousy and feare that they can never be secure of their liberties though never so well ratified by Lawes and promises of Princes any longer then the sword and power remaines in their owne hand to preserve what they have obtained Such Warners so long as they are possessed with such maximes of state are cleare everters of the first fundations of trust betwixt Soveraignes and subjects they take away all possibility of any solid peace of any confident setlement in any troubled state before both parties be totally ruined or one become so strong that they need no more to feare the others malcontentment in any time to come Our second challenged principle is that wee teach the whole power of convocating assemblies to be in the Church Erastian praelats evert the legall foundations of all government Ans The Warners citations prove not that we maintaine any such assertion our doctrin and constant practise hath been to ascribe to the King a power of calling Synods when and wheresoever he thought fit but that which the Warner seemes to point at is our tenet of an intrinsicall power in the Church to meet as for the word and Sacraments so for disciplin in this all who are Christians old and late the praelaticall and Popish party as well as others