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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16170	A courteous conference with the English Catholikes Romane about the six articles ministred vnto the seminarie priestes, wherein it is apparantly proued by their owne diuinitie, and the principles of their owne religion, that the Pope cannot depose her Maiestie, or release her subiectes of their alleageance vnto her. And finally, that the bull of Pius Quiutus [sic] pronounced against her Maiestie is of no force eyther in lawe or conscience, all Catholicke scruples to the contrarie beeing throughly and perfectly cleared and resolued, and many memoriall matters exactly discussed, which haue not beene handled by man heeretofore. Written by Iohn Bishop a recusant papist.	Bishop, John, d. 1613.; Frewen, John, 1558-1628.	1598 (1598)	STC 3092; ESTC S102284	61,282	90

displeasures of himselfe his friendes and vassalls At the same time the french king Philip le Beau had spoyled Edward the fi●st king of England iniuriously of the greatest parte of Guienne and also Guy the Eare of Fuaunders almost of his whole Earldome and was not deposed therefore The cause is apparant Sicily was held of the Church of Rome and so was neither Guienne nor Flaunders But although he escaped scot-free for these wronges and the long detayning in prison the Earle of Flaunders and two of his sonnes yet he was depriued of his kingdome by Pope Boniface the eight Philip the faire for imprisoning of a french Bishop that rayled at him and menaced him when he coulde not winne him to grant to goe with an Army into the holy land on the which message the Pope had sent him vnto the king as saith Platina But the french Chronicles report that the king caused him to be apprehended at home at his owne house for that he vnderstoode that he vsed often to speake very ill of him and to rayle outragiously on hm and deliuered him vnto his primate the Bishop of Tolouse to punish him with his aduise The kingdome of France was giuen vnto Albert the Emperour perhappes for a reward of his wickednesse in slaying of his soueraigne Adolph the Emperour for other punishment I doe not finde that Pope did put him vnto therefore See Mun●ter cos●●●mog lib. 3. in Al. 2. But yet I doe not doubt but the fault was more heinous then emprisoning of a Bishop for rayling against his prince and Lord. Yea and that God did so account it he made it manifest vnto the worlde by his seuere punishment of all the conspiratours For Albert himselfe was murdered by his owne Cosen germane the Archbishop of Ments founde deade sitting in his chaire The Bishop Stasburge was slaine by a pesant at F●●●●nge in Brisgow The Earle of Linengen died ma●de The Earle of Sweibrucken was drowned in a riuer The Earle of Ochsenstein had his deaths wound in the battell And the Earle H●●gerloch was slaine on the way by Otho the Duke of Danao But to proceede Lewes th 12 of France was excommunicated denounced a scismatike and his kingdome and goods exposer for a common spoyle to all Christians and the like penalty pronounced on all them that did or should take his part or ayde him Lewes the twelfih And therefore Iohn the king of Nauarre lost his kingdome for procuring of a generall counsell to be called and held without the consent of the Pope against the Pope that there his infestious foe Iul●us the second might be deposed an other more frendly placed in his roome And doth not this altogether smell of priuate reuenge and not of charity But perhaps you will say it was a foule part of him that would be called the most Christian king to sow sedition and scisme throughout all Christendome for his owne priuate quarrell and that this doing of his was so ill thought of by most of the pri● 〈…〉 of Christendome that they entred therefore into league against him and had almost set him besides his saddle In truth I can neyther prayse the practise nor the pollicie of the French who sought to represse the iniurious attemptes of the Pope against him rather by colour of lawe to the disturbance of all Christendome then by armes and inuading the Popes territories as Philippe the moderne king of Spayne wisely did in the like case and fondely thought it lesse enuyous Anno Domini 556. and more agreeable vnto his surname of the most Christian king which his ancest●rs had purchasesed by defending the Popes and Peters patrimony with armes to rayse vp a scisme then to force the Pope to frindship by materiall force But that the Pope compelled him to this outrage all writers doe confesse For first contrary to the league made at Cambray betweene him the Emperour the French king the king Spaine and the Duke of Ferara against the Venetians who had encroched vpon thē all he hauing gotten all that he claimed ●ee Iouius ●n vita Al●hons ●●uiciardi●●o not onely made peace with the Venetians without the consent of his confederates but also excōmunicated and with armes enuaded the fast friend of the French the Duke of Ferara because that he not hauing yet recouered all his right of them would not cease to molest the Venetians And also he left no stone vnturned to turne the French out of Milan an Genna the which he at the length brought to passe And was not he then the author of all his tragedie Moreouer this Popes brothers sonne Duke of Vrbine cruelly murdered of emulation Alidosius a Bishop a Cardinall See Iouius ●n vit Alphons Guic. Boleslaw and Legate of Bologna almost in the Popes sight and was put to no penance therefore But Boleslaw the hardie king of Poland was depriued by Pope Gregorie the seuenth of his kingdome and also the country of the honour to haue a king in the which dishonour it continued 200 yeares f●●●●ying with his owne hande in his fury Stanislaw the Bishop of Craccow for excommunicating him yea and interdicting the whole Citie of Craccow to make him the more odious because he openly kept another mans wife and for adultery a thing which as it should seeme by Cromerus as common in Poland in those daies as the cart way Yea those noble women that were honest were forced to forsake there owne howses See Cromerus hist Pola lib. 4. for feare of force and rauishment yea and it was common in Italy and passed vnpunished in meaner men then princes But yet in verie trueth the kinges fact was verie foule and made worse by the furie of his fellowes that chopped in peeces the slayne corpes and cast it to the crowes And yet perhaps Dauid did almost all ill in defiling of a noble mans bed while he was in his seruice in the fielde and afterward commaunding him to be murdered for his amendes but so dealt not Bolislawe with Stanislaw and if the qualities of the persons be not equall then the manner of the doing doth ouermatch the one being done without any prouocation and of aduised malice the other vppon a greate ignominy vnwonted with kinges offered him and vpon a sodaine while his blood was hotte which seauen yeares continuall absence from his countrie in forraine warres a little before had ouerheated And yet Dauid lost not his Kingdome therefore Neither doe we reade of any realme interdicted for murdering of their Kinges whereof we haue almost infinite examples or any man deposed for intruding into them by such wickednesse vnlesse perhappes the murdered Prince were the Popes vassall Soe that this zeale in seuere punishing of princes for misusing them of the clergy I feare me may be imputed rather to a partiall fauour towardes them of their owne coate and done for their owne securitie then for zeale of Iustice Like as our Sargeants at

counsell and of my will see that you doe giue all men entrance into the Church that are desirous to come in for if I shall vnderstande that any man that desireth to be made partaker of the Church shall eyther be let by you or forbidden to enter in I will immediately sende one of mine that by my commaundement shall remooue you from your Sea and giue your place vnto another Note that hee saieth I will sende not the Bishoppe of Rome his officer but one of mine owne men who shall displace you and place another therein not by commaundement of the counsell or Bishoppe of Rome but by my commaundement The like also writes Socrates he threatned vnto Alexander the Bishoppe of Constantinople if he woulde not receiue Arrius into the Church But you will say that the Emperour iniuried both Athanasius and Alexander I denie not that but although Theodoretus doth blame his ouermuch light credulitie and doth excuse it by the like in Dauid against Miphiboseth yet doth neyther hee nor any other ancient author accuse him of tyranny for medling with matters that he had nothing to do withall or punishing of them ouer whom he had no lawfull iurisdiction and also doth refute that you affirme that Constantine refused to iudge Bishoppes Nowe to returne againe to the history the same Socrates doth say that when the Arrians had accused Athanasius Macarius and other of their complices vnto the Emperour of foule factes Constantine wrote vnto his sisters sonne D●linatius who was then abiding at Antioch 500 miles from Alexandria to call the parties before him and to punish them that he shoulde finde faultie But afterwarde because the Bishoppes were assembled at Tyrus about the dedication of his newe Church at Hierusalem he referred ouer the hearing of those matters vnto them So that at the first he had committed both the triall and the punishment of the greatest Bishoppe of all the East Church vnto a temporall officer of his the which fact and the other which I haue before rehearsed doe plainly proue that Constantine did not account nor acknowledge his Empyre or him selfe empaired or of lesse commaund by accepting of the Christian religion but that he still executed his princely prerogatiue on all persons both spirituall temporall and still clamed to be the minister immediate of God not any vnder officer of the Bishops of Rome Gods vicar on earth rightly to for as Paul saith 1. Tim. 6. Let all bondmen whatsoeuer they be that be vnder yoke repute their lords worthy of al honor lest the name of the lord his doctrine be blasphemed but they which haue beleeuing Lords let them not cōtemne them because they bee their brethren but rather serue them because they bee beleeuers and belooued who are pertakers of the benefite Teach these thinges and exhort them If any man teach otherwise and doth not yeeld vnto the ●ound speaches of our Lord Iesus Christ and that doctrine which is agreeable to godlinesse is proud knoweth nothing is mindesicke of questions quarrelles about wordes So also might it haue been saide Ye Popes Byshoppes account your princes worthie of all honour least the name and doctrine of Christ be euill spoken of but ye Byshoppes that haue Christian Kinges contemne them not because they be Christians but be the more obedient and dutifull vnto them because they haue embraced Chrst and are pertakers of his benefit This teach and exhorte but whosoeuer teacheth otherwise teacheth contrary doctrine to Christ is a proude prelate and quite voide of knowledge And as Peter writeth 1 Epistle 3. Ye bondmen bee subiect in all feare vnto your Lordes not onely vnto them that are good and moderate but also vnto them that are waywarde and vnreasonable for this is grace or worthie of fauour if a man doe beare sorrowes for conscience of GOD suffering vniustly So also might it haue beene rightly saide vnto the Popes and Byshoppes in Constantines time and now also be ye subiecte in all feare vnto your Princes not onely vnto such as are good and gratious but also vnto vngodly and tyrannicall neyther release your selues of your alleagence for if yee doe take and beare wrong quietly for regarde of GOD God will abundadtly rewarde your patience for the consequent is very strong and good seeing the thinges are all together alike and equall for if the Christian bondmen were not enfranchised because they were spirituall brothers vnto their Lordes neyther were the Popes and Byshoppes discharged of subiection vnto their Princes because they were become their spirituall bretheren and if you will to their spirituall fathers But they say with Phigl●ius that Christ cōmitted the gouernement of his Church vnto Peter What prince Peter was and his successors and therefore all Kinges that are of the Church are subiect vnto the Byshoppes of Rome And if we grant this can there bee ought else inferred then subiection in causes and censures ecclesiasticall and not in causes and punishmentes secular and temporall for what fonde Frenchman will say that because in olde time the Kinges of England were vassals vnto the French Kinges for the Duchies of Normandy and Guien that therefore the crowne of Englande was subiect vnto the Kinges of France or that they coulde commande the Kinges of England in any matter touching their crowne of England or because the Byshoppes Chanceller can excommunicate a man for adultery that therefore he can also depriue a man of life and liuing Mat. 20 for a greater fault Moreouer did not Christ plainelye enough declare what kinde of Kingdome he gaue to Peter and the rest of the Apostles and how vnkingely kinges they shoulde bee when they contended among themselues who should be greatest The kinges of nations saide he be Lordes ouer those countries and their princer haue power ouer them but so it is not in you doth he not here in plaine wordes take from them all earthlye and bodily Empire and power and that too from the greatest of them So that the Pope that claimeth to bee greatest and chiefest is also hereby excluded neyther will a shifte of humilitie serue to escape seeing that to depose Princes is to raigne ouer nations is to be their Lord is to haue power ouer them all which thinges Christ saith the greatest of his Apostles his successors should not haue nor consequently authoritie to release all subiectes of their allegiance the which is a supreeme point of Earthly Empire the which neuer any mortall man yet had and onely belongeth vnto the great God the supreeme Lord and soueraigne of the whole world for neuer yet was there any so mightie a monarch that had all the world vnder his Empire neither then could his authoritie extend ouer all nations but his power determined within the bonds of his owne Empire could not stretch beyonde his owne vassals among whom only he might decree in what cases their seignories should be forfeated and their bondmen be enfranchised of

famous Cardinall Taietan● that doth hold and maintaine that the Pope cannot erre in the definition of faith yet doth affirme in his commentaries vpon Mathew that he may erre in iudgement whether a thing be lawfull or noe And therefore he doth not accept the de●rees of the Pope in his controuersie of diuotee for definitiue of faith but for iudiciall And in iudgementes the Popes themselues saith he doe confesse that they haue erred and so then may also a generall counsell erre in iudgements by your owne rules if perhaps any iudgement be to be founde of the counsell of the Laterane against Raimond the Earle of Tolouse for not purging his country of the Albigenses Canons of counsels binde not but where they are receiued Nowe this first scruple beeing taken away let vs descend vnto our next article and conclusion that the Canon doth not binde vs in this realme who is so ignorant that knoweth not that all decrees and Canons of generall counsels are not obserued and kept in euerie country neyther doe thy binde the breakers of them in conscience As for example there was a decree made by the counsell at Nice that deacons shall not sit aboue priestes but yet we doe see at Rome the Deacon Cardinalles doe sitte aboue Bishoppes that be no Cardinalles Likewise in Sexto Constantinapolitano in Trullo there is forbidden kneeling in praier on the Sundayes and soe likewise all the time betweene Easter and Whitsontide And also that no man shall fast the Saturnedaies in Lent but the quite contrarie of both Canons was most vsuall in this lande and thought most deuoute when the Pope was in his highest prime heere Moreouer it is the common opinion of all the Canonistes that the decrees and Canons reformatiue doe not else where binde but where they haue beene receiued and therefore our seminary priestes doe holde that the Catholickes Romane of this Realme nor yet those in France be not bounde to obserue the Canons of the late counsell at Trent because they haue beene publikly receiued in neyther of the kingdomes This then beeing soe if I can prooue that this Canon of deposing of princes was neuer receiued in this Realme then haue I conuinced that it doth binde no man of this Realme in conscience And this will I first prooue by circumstance of the time and secondly because diuers other 〈◊〉 for downe in the same counsell were neuer obserued 〈◊〉 as for this Canon The Canon neuer receiued proued by circumstance of time it neuer came in practise heare ●ntill Kinge Henrie the eyght First it is certaine that the counsell at Laterane was helde in Anno Domini 1215. and in the seuenth yeare of the raigne of Kinge Io●n and in the time of the bloodie broyles of the Barons against the kinge it can not bee denyed but that the kinge had three Embassadours there and likelie enough it is that they subscribed and consented as the rest of the Embassadours did for their master sought all the meanes he coulde to please the Pope that hee might haue his helpe against the Barons and so indeede hee stoode his fast friende and at the counsell accursed the Barons suspended the Archbishoppe of Canterburie Stephan Lang●●● for taking parte with them and for the same quarrell would not allowe his brother Simon Elected Archbishoppe of yorke so that there is no doubte but the greatest parte of the realme were as readie to displease the Pope as their prince was to please him for the chiefest cause that moued the king to sende Embassadours vnto the counsell was saith Mathews of Paris to procure the Popes curse against the Barons These wofull warres continued to the death of kinge Iohn soe that no parliament was or coulde be helde whereby this Canon could be receiued For if Sir Thomas More in his debellation doth truely say that kinge Iohn coulde not make his kingdome tributarie to the Pope without the consente of the parliament much lesse coulde he giue the Pope authority to giue the realme away God knowes to whom it should please him or that Christian that was able to winne it by fine force for according to the rule of the Canon Lawe Quod omnes tangit ab omnibus debet approbari that which toucheth all men ought to be allowed and approued and confirmed by all wherefore the Lord chiefe Iustice in the first yeare of the raigne of Henry the seuenth as we doo reade in the reportes of the same yeare Termino Hillarii Chap. 10. affirmed that all the Barrons vnto the Pope that after a sorte commaunded Edwarde the first to surcease from warring on the Scottes that helde of him That although the king woulde giue away the right he had to Scotlands yet for all that it shoulde not be soe because that hee that is king of England is alwaies chiefe Lorde of Scotland And if the king of this Realme cannot of himselfe dispose of a thing annexed and incorporated to the crowne of this kingdome will any wise man be of opinion that king Iohn coulde dispose of the crowne of England of himselfe without the assent and consent of the states and ordaine forfeytures thereof to forreyners and strangers And although I can easily be perswaded that the subiectes for the extreame hatred that they bare vnto their present prince The iniquitie of the Canon woulde lightly be wonne to accept of causes to be discharged of their alleageanc to their king yet can I hardly be induced to beleeue that they coulde suffer themselues their wiues and children landes and liuinges goods and country to be exposed to the sacke and spoyle of all their neighbours yea of all Christendome if they shoulde vnhappily happe to haue a wicked king And also well might they satisfie the will and intent of the counsell without any such pernicious perill of there whole state and also retaine still their ancient honour and liberty if they themselues did make choise of the Physition that should purge them if that the law of God had not vtterly forbidden thē to rebell frō their prince were he neuer so wicked and not foolishly bind themselues to take a purgation of they know not whom perhaps vnhappily of such a one 〈◊〉 ●●te likely to purge them of ill humors so extreamely that he would destroy the habit of their bodye And hereof ●o saide an example they neded not to seeke far For as the very same instant they had a very plaine proofe thereof in France where the earle of Tolowse was depriued of his earledome because he would not purge his dominions of the Albigenses and the earledome giuen by the Pope vnto Simon the Earle of Monssort For that I may omit how bloudily Monssort executed the Popes mandate being generall of the Croysy against the Albigenses in sacking the Cities murdering the men and women how he did also vnder that pretence assaulte sacke cityes that were not one whit infected with that sect and slew in one battell twentie thousand

See they will be the successors of Constantine and not of Peter c. And in this minde they continued in the reigne of king Edward the first when the Parliament assembled at Lincolne thus wrote as we reade in Thomas of VValsingham flores historiarum vnto Bonifacius the viii who among other things in his letters to the king had requested that if the King had any right in the kingdomes of Scotland or any part thereof that he would send his proctors and learned counsell vnto him and there the matter shoulde speedily with iustice be adiudged decided Neither that the kings of England had by reason of the preeminence of their state regall dignity and costome at all times inuiolably obserued euer answered or ought to answere before any Iudge eccelesiasticall or secular about his rights in the aforesaide kingdome of Scotland or other his temporalities wherefore we hauing held a diligent consultation deliberation vppon the contents of your abouesaide letters it was the common concordious one minded consent of vs all of eueryone of vs shal be for euer hereafter vnaltered that our foresaid Lord the King doe not about the rights of the kingdome of Scotland or other his temporalities in any wise answere iudicially before you nor come vnder iudgement in any sort or bring his rights aforesaide in doubt or question nor therefore sende proctours or messengers vnto your presence seeing the premises doe tende manifestly to the disinheriting of the right of the Crowne of the kingdome of England and the kingly dignitie the notorious subuersion of the state of the same kingdome also to the preiudice of our fathers libertie costoms lawes to the obseruation and defending of whom we are boūd by the duty of oth taken the which we will maintaine in all that we can and will with the helpe of God defend with all our strength Neither also doe wee permit or in any sort will suffer as neither we can nor ought that our foresaide Lord king yea if he would doe or in any cause attempt the premises so vnwonted vndue preiudiciall and at other times so vnheard of c. And now I pray you will any indifferent man beleeue that our countrimen in those daies did thinke that the Pope had authoritie to despose their Kings or knew or heard that their fathers and auncestours had giuen the Pope power to expose the kingdome of their countrie for a common pray for all Christians and Catholickes But now hauing prooued that this Canon cannot bind vs now vnlesse our ancestours had receaued by consent of Parliament also haue shewed that it neither was nor could be done let vs fall to our seconde proofe that the Canons of this Counsell at least in temporall cases were neuer receiued in this Realme In this counsel there was a Canon made vnder payne of excōmunication that the Clergy should not be forced to pay any contribution to secular princes neither shoulde they willingly of their owne accord pay any without licence first obtained of th● Pope Now that this Canon was neuer in force here it doth plainely appeare by the subsidies payde by the Clergy vnto the sonne of King Iohn Chap. 24. Henry the third in the ix the xvi the xxi the xxix the xxxvii the xliiii the xlii yeares of his raigne neuer once asked the Popes consent but contrariwise in the xxxvi yeares of his raigne the king hauing the popes mandate from the Counsell of Lyons See Holin●hed to pay him three tenthes because he was crossed for the holy land they vtterly refused to pay him penny The Clergy did also wthout contradiction pay vnto his sonne and successor Edward the first in the eight yeare of his reaigne thre tenthes and in the eleauenth yeare the twentith part of all their goodes but afterward at the Parliament helde at Saint Edmondesbury Robert the Archbyshoppe of Canterbury and some of the Clergy refused to pay not claming to be exempted by this Canon but by another decre made lately that very yeare by Pope Bonifacius the eight but then the King put the Cleargy out of his protection and thus forced them to yeelde and so they haue continued payment quietly euer since that time An other Canon we haue in the same counsell Chap. 4● that no prescription shall be good during the whole time whereof the possessor did not verelye beleeue that the thing was his owne in truth But that the law of this land did neuer make any distinction of possession bona or malae fidei whether the possessor did think it to be his owne or not at all our Lawyers doe know and acknowledge And also the statutes of limitation made in the Parliamentes held at Marton and VVestminster in the three and twentie yeares of the raignes of Henry the third and Edward the first doe plainelie prooue Also a third Canon there is a branch of this of the desposition of Princes that the goodes of Clarkes condemned for heretikes shall bee forfeited vnto the Churches where they serued This constitution not to bee obserued the author of the booke called the Doctor and the Student doth at large prooue in the xxix Chapter of his seconde booke And also it doth plainely appeare by the statute made in the second yeare of Henry the first Chapt. 7. where wee finde that the goodes of Heretikes of what estate condition and degree soeuer they bee are escheated to the King And also all their landes that houlde immediately of him or of their ordinaries or their commissaries but the landes of all other that holde in chiefe of other Lordes the king to haue them a yeare and a day with their wastes and afterward to returne vnto the Lord of the sea And seeing that in three small matters that touched not the state the Counsell was not nor is receiued can anye wise man beleeue that the Counsell was receaued in a Canon that touched the ruine of the whole country and kingdome and namely seeing it hath beene plainely proued that a part of the very selfe same Canon was neuer alowed Now finally to conclude neither was the sentence of depriuation canonically pronounced against her Maiestie according to thee decree of the Counsell The Canon not orderly executed for whereas she should first haue bene admonished by the Church and then excommunicated by the Metropolitane and his comprouinciall Byshoppes and then if she had contemned to satisfie within one yeare to bee depriued c. It is manifest that she was not excommunicated by the Metropolitane and the Byshoppes of his prouince neyther I doe thinke admonished by the Church but euen at the very first choppe deposed by the Pope Therefore seeing that neyther Pope nor generall counsell haue authoritie to depose Princes or release subiectes of their allegiance neyther was the Canon of the Counsell of Laterane for deposing of Princes euer receiued in this land nor any other Canons of Counsels that touched temporalities neyther yet that Canon orderly executed ●-against her Maiesty What good Christian English man can thinke that hee was by that Bull of Pius Quin●●● discharged of his obedience and allegiance that hee oweth vnto her Maiestye And can absurdly beleeue that all those that shall dye in that quarell shall vndoubtedlye bee damned in hell fire with all miscreants and rebelles FINIS

worde saith hee signifieth also to gouerne It doth indeede properlie signifie to keepe sheepe as we terme it wherein wee include not onelie the feeding of them but also the care of looking to them that they take noe harme the dressing of them when they be ill and all other thinges belonging to the charge and duetie of a sheepehearde and properlie no other signification hath it but by a Metaphore to shewe with howe greate care mildenesse and lenitie kinges ought to gouerne their subiectes Homer and Plato doe often call kinges sheepeheardes of the people and so likewise the sacred scriptures In the twentith of the Actes we haue the same wordes where we reade Therefore looke vnto your selues and the whole flocke wherein the holie Ghost hath placed you Bishoppes and ouerseers in greeke poimaine the Church of God which he hath purchased him with his bloode Nowe that the Apostles or any Bishoppes had any secular power Pighius himselfe doth denie as long as the temporall princes had not receiued the Gospell so that this worde can by no meanes importe anie earthly superioritie And in this Oration Paule doth plainely declare what kinde of kingdome Christes is when hee saith to gouerne the Church of God which he purchased with his bloode for he purchased none with his bloode but t●●s spirituall kingdome for as GOD hee was possessed o● the Empyre of the whole worlde from the beginning But the place of binding and losing we haue examined alreadie and proued that it cannot be vnderstoode otherwise then Christ himselfe doth interpret it in the twenteth of Iohn whose sinnes ye shall remitte are remitted and whose sinnes yee shall retaine are retained and a receiuing into the Church and kingdome of heauen and a shutting out of it And therefore he saith whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen and not shall be bounde in earth least any man should dreame that he gaue Peter secular power ouer earthly Empires and that all the commandements and ordinances and decrees of his successors touching worldly matters should be receiued and kept throughout the whole world Neither if the Pope had any such authoritie giuen him by any generall Counsell A general counsell cannot depose Princes as I am assured he hath not for as for the canon made in the counsell of Laterane we will anone make a large seuerall treatise thereof were it good and sufficient to binde all Princes to obedience because it lieth not in the power of a generall counsell to dispose of secular matters For seeing generall counsells doe altogether consist of persons ecclesiasticall and they doe allow noe temporall prince any voice therein and that all the Byshoppes that are assembled there do sit as Byshops spirituall Lords not as temporal that they be secular subiects not soueraignes that the kingdom of the Church is a distincte kingdom as al the Catholickes say from the kingdomes of the world It is as absurd to holde that they can makes lawes touching temporalities to be obserued of all temporall Princes vnder temporall paines as if a madde man would affirme that the assembly of the three states of France may ordaine statutes for the Queenes maiesty of England hir realme and that they are bound in conscience to obserue all lawes made there For doubtlesse the temporall and the ecclesiasticall kingdomes are as seuerall kingdomes as Englande France which haue more alliance together then the other two because they are both secular both bodilie both ruled by one sword but of the other the one is spirituall the other bodily the one of the worlde the other of heauen the one swayed by the ciuill and materiall sworde ●he other by the spirituall the one slaying the soule the other the body But now I would not haue any fond man to imagine that I doe goe about to spoile the temporall prince of his high prerogatiue in ordaining of holsome lawes for the maintenance of the true faith of Christ and the sincere obseruation of all the rest of his holy commandementes the which I doe thinke him bound in conscience to doe but that I doe firmely beleeue and openly professe that by the right giuen him by God he may punish all persons both ecclesiasticall and temporall within his dominions that shall offend either in faith or manners by fine imprisonment banishment confiscation of landes and goodes attainder of blood death or finally any other temporall paines as the noble princes of this land haue alwaies vsed to doe And therefore Iustice Brian in Decimo of Henry the seauenth doth call the King a mixt person for he is saith Brian a person vnited with the priests of holy Church But I denie him the administration of gods holy sacraments and the exercise of the spirituall sworde which I doe appropriate vnto the ecclesiasticall officers Wherefore much lesse can the Byshoppes in a generall counsell giue away the crownes of their Kinges seeing according to the afore rehearsed rule of the Canon law noe man can giue that right vnto another which he hath not himselfe But if there were ordained a bodie politicke of all the Christian princes and states what they beeing assembled in a counsell generall might doe is annother question the which we will leaue to bee disputed of them that shall see this happe institution And in the meane time they must pardon vs if we doe not lightly beleeue that the Pope hath power to depose Princes seeing wee can finde no warrant therefore neither in the scriptures the auncient counsells the olde fathers the practise of the Church of God neither before Christ neither seauen hundreth years after him although there raigned many Idolatrous hereticall and wicked Princes Of the Iewish Kinges verye few were good but rather such men as GOD had streightly commaunded that they shoulde not spare if they were their Brothers or such a friende as hee looued as dearely as his owne soule but that his hand should bee first vppon him to stone him to death and yet wee doe not reade that any one of them was deposed by the high Priestes or his subiectes armed against him by them And yet were they so zealous men of their dignitie that they would in noe wise suffer the King to vsurpe ought vppon him in so much that one of them openly withstoode Ozias the King The history of king Ozias handled that woulde vnlawfully execute his office in offring incense vnto GOD neither doth the expelling of this King out of the temple by rhe Priestes because God had for his proude part stricken him with leprosie and that thereupon hee sequestred himselfe from companie and left the gouernement of matters of state vnto his sonne prooue ought against the prerogatiue of Princes The text saith 2. Coro 26.20 that they caused hastily to depart thence he was euen compelled to goe out as the English authour of the ecclesiasticall discipline doth inferre For hee was not expelled out of