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A86287 Extraneus vapulans: or The observator rescued from the violent but vaine assaults of Hamon L'Estrange, Esq. and the back-blows of Dr. Bernard, an Irish-deane. By a well willer to the author of the Observations on the history of the reign of King Charles. Heylyn, Peter, 1600-1662. 1656 (1656) Wing H1708; Thomason E1641_1; ESTC R202420 142,490 359

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being made and shewed to the King he approved well of them in regard that comming nearer to the first Liturgy of King Edward the sixth in the administration of the Lords Supper and consequently being more agreeable to the ancient Forms it might be a means to gain the Papists to the Church who liked far better of the first than the second Liturgy In this the Pamphleter very cunningly that I say no worse leaves out these words and consequently being more agreeable to the ancient Forms fastning the hopes of gaining Papists to the Church on the nearness of the Scotish Liturgie to the first of King Edwards without relating to the Forms of more elder times to which the Papists stand affected Fol. 29. This is no fair dealing by the way But let that pass he grants it is a matter beyond dispute that the Papists liked the first Liturgy of King Edward better than the second Why so Because the words of Distribution of the Elements are so framed as they may consist with transubstantiation Fol. 30. If that be all the Papists have as good reason to like the Liturgy of the Church of England now by Law established as they had or have to like the first Liturgy of King Edward the sixth The words of Distribution used in the first Liturgy being still retained in the present together with the words of Participation take and eat take and drink c. which only did occur in the second Liturgy No more consistency with transubstantiation in the words of Distribution used in the first Liturgy of King Edward nor consequently in that for Scotland than in that continued in the first year of Queen Elizabeth But then the Pamphleter subjoyns that the gaining of Papists to our Church was indeed the great pretended project of forty years continuance and yet in all that time not so much as one taken with that Bait. In answer unto which I desire to know where the fault was that for the space of forty years the intended project of gaining Papists to the Church took no more effect The Project certainly was pious and intended really and where the fault was we shall hear from our Author himself the Bishops of late yeares saith he supinely either careless or indulgent had not required within their Dioceses that strict obedience to Ecclesiastical constitutions which the Law expected upon which the Liturgy began to be totally laid aside and inconformity the uniform practice of the Church Hist Fol. 137. The Papists loving comlinesse and order in Gods publique service will not be taken with the hatefull Bait of Inconformity and forty years of generall conformity will be hardly found in which we might have gained upon them Had Bishop Laud succeeded Bancroft and the intended Project been followed without interruption there is little question to be made but that our Jerusalem by this time might have been a City at unity in it self Besides the Pamphleter might have observed had he been so minded that the Observator speaks these words of gaining Papists to the Church as a thing hoped for by the King of the Scotish Liturgy and the nearnesse which it had to the first of King Edward which they liked better than the second If the pamphleter can prevail so far with my Lord Protector as to settle the Scotish Liturgy in Scotland and the first of King Edward in this Kingdom we may in lesse than forty years give him a better accompt of the Papists gained unto the Church than can be made for the reasons above mentioned for the like space of time now past If any true Protestants have been lost hereby as here is affirmed when he hath told me who and how many they are he shall find me very ready to grieve with him for it In the mean time I shall grieve for him who so vainly speaks it We have one only thing to adde relating to this Convocation the Observator saying that he had some reason to believe that the Clergy of that Convocation did not appear in the Parliament by their Councel learned sufficiently authorized and instructed to advocate for them To this the Pamphleter replyeth by halves professing that he will not determine 't is because he cannot how the Councel for the Clergy were instructed by them but withall confidently averring that by their Councell they did appear first by Mr. Chadwell of Lincolns Inne Novemb. 26. then again by Mr. Holburn the 15 day of Decemb. who argued two hours in defence of them Fol. 40. That these two Gentlemen appeared in this businesse for the Clergy I shall easily grant that is to say that they appeared in it out of a voluntary piety and an honest zeal to doe them the best offices they could in their great extremities If the Pampleter mean no otherwise than thus he shall take me with him But there he takes the word equivocally and not according to the legal acception of it and there can be no legal appearance but by men authorized and instructed by the parties whom it doth concern and that these Gentlemen were so the Pamphleter can neither say nor will determine And certainly if the Members of that Convocation had been so ill-advised as to submit their persons Cause and Jurisdiction which I am very well assured they did not and would never doe to the Iudgement of the House of Commons it had been more proper for them to have made this appearance by his Majesties Attourney and Solliciter and others of his Councell learned the Kings interesse and theirs being so complicated and involved as the case then stood that the one could not fall without the other Being thus entered on this Parliament I will look back to those before and take them in their course and order And the first thing we meet with is an ancient Order said in the History to be found by the Lords that is to say the Lords which were of the popular party against the Duke that no Lords created sedente Parliamento should have voice during that Session c. whereupon their suffrage was excluded The vanity and improbability of which Report is proved by the Observator by these two Arguments First that the Lords Seymore Littleton Capel c. created sedente Parliamento Anno 1640. were admitted to their suffrages without any dispute though in a time when a strong party was preparing against the King And 2ly That when a Proposition of this nature was made unto the King at York he denied it absolutely though then in such a low condition that it was hardly safe for him to deny them any thing which they could reasonably desire which Arguments the Pamphleter not being able to answer requireth a Demonstration of his Errous from the Records themseves or otherwise no recantation to be looked for from him Fol. 10. Whereas indeed it doth belong unto our Author according to the ordinary rules of Disputation both to produce a Copy of that ancient Order and to make proof out of