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A56660 A friendly debate betwixt two neighbours, the one a conformist, the other a non-conformist about several weighty matters / published for the benefit of this city, by a lover of it, and of pure religion.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707.; Wild, Robert, 1609-1679. 1668 (1668) Wing P798; ESTC R41393 117,976 250

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a Separation and one thing more desire to learn of them which is whether those things that any of them have suffered be not the Effect and Punishment of their separation and not the Cause of it As for any Restraints the Law hath laid upon their Liberty they are nothing comparable to those that were laid on us when they were in Power and yet they will take it ill if they should be called Persecutors For if you look into an Ordinance of Parliament of 11. August 1645. for putting in execution the Directory you will find these words That if any person or persons whatsoever shall at any time or times hereafter use or cause the aforesaid Book of Common-Prayer to be used in any Church Chappel or publick place of Worship or in any private place or Family within the Kingdom of England or the Dominion of Wales or Port and ●own of Berwick every such person so offending ●herein shall for the first offence pay the sum ●f five pounds of lawful English money for the second offence ten pounds and for the third shall suffer one whole year Imprisonment without Bail or Mainprise Can you name me any Law now extant so severe and cruel as this was Do we abridge the poorest Tradesman so much of his liberty as then they would have abridg'd all the Nobles in the Land nay for any thing I see the KING himself at least his Family which were forbid the use of Common-Prayer under such great Penalties Are you not all allow'd to worship God just as you please your selves in your own Families Nay may not some of your Neighbours joyn with you if you and they be so minded For shame do not complain of Persecution when you are so kindly used who endeavoured in such a manner to oppress others And blush to think that you should separate upon this account which yet is all that you can have the face to pretend to excuse the Schism you have made The Common-Prayer you see was never imposed with such rigor as your Directory was And whereas you now take what liberty you list to preach and Write and print what you think good against the Common-Prayer it was then ordain'd that none should do so against the Directory or any thing contain'd therein which is a great deal more and in case any man was so bold he was to forfeit such a sum of money as should be thought fit to be imposed on him by those before whom he had his Trial provided it was not less than five pounds nor more than fifty Who should try him no body knew but he was sure to meet with little favour if the Directory-men met with him and were to handle him who would tolerate no Dissenters from them And their reason is given in the London Ministers Letter to the Assembly because they were bound by the Covenant to extirpate all Scism and to indeavour the Lord should be one and his Name one in the Three Kingdoms i. e. that all should subscribe to the Directory And there is another thing which to me seems something hard I am sure you ought to judg it so viz. an Ordinance of 2. June 1646. requiring that all people who were come to reside in the Parliament-Quarters should take the National League and Covenant and the Negative Oath notwithstanding any Articles that had been made by the Souldiery Why should you complain of the late Oxford Act as it is commonly called who could endure heretofore that men should be used so severely Compare that and this Ordinance together and tell me which of them is most moderate that which banished men out of many Counties or that which only prohibits their near habitation to a Town or two that which made void the promises which their own Officers had made or that which was against no ingagements at all I wish you would consider these things with a great many more of like nature for though your prejudices are strong I hope sometime they may serve to convince you And the mention of the Covenant just now brings a considerable thing to my mind which if it would not be tedious I would willingly propound and desire you to enquire about it N. C. I pray say on for your discourse begins to be pleasant to me C. I wish you would ask your Ministers why they themselves heretofore not onely approved of certain Ceremonies in the Worship of God but also were well pleased they should be enjoyn'd and yet now cry out upon our Ceremonies or at least would have them left at liberty N. C. What Ceremonies and Worship do you mean C. Was not the taking of the Solemn League and Covenant a piece of Religion N. C. Yes it was an Oath C. Read then an Ordinance of 2. Febr. 1643. ☜ and you will find it is ordain'd among other things that during the time that the Minister read the whole Covenant to the people the whole Congregation should be uncovered There is one Ceremony which now you will by no means indure should be imposed on you at the hearing of Sermons Then at the end of the Reading it they appoint that all shall take it standing There is another Ceremony And lastly that they should lift up their right hand bare That 's another if not two Ceremonies more For they enjoyn them to lift up the right Hand not the left and that it should be bare not covered with a Glove And this very Ordinance touching the Manner of the taking the Covenant they desired might be confirm'd by Act of Parliament as you may see in the Propositions sent to his Majesty at Newcastle July 11. 1646. Pray tell me if you can or else make enquiry why they did not leave men to their way and manner of doing this Religious Act seeing they would have no body tied to a Posture now in the Worship of God N. C. I will enquire For I know no reason of it C. If you please ask them another thing which is why they do not take their own Advice which they give about the Covenant For if they would the Covenant need not keep them from doing that which otherwise many of them profess they could do N. C. You must be at the pains to interpret your self for I know not what you intend C. The Parliament in the Ordinance now mentioned desire the Assembly of Divines to prepare an Exhortation for the better taking of the Covenant which should be read together with it Now in that Exhortation which was voted to be printed Febr. 9. 1643. the Assembly intreat the Episcopal Clergy who said they could not take the Covenant because it was against their former Oaths to consider this which is the thing I would have them consider now That if any Oath be found into which any Minister or others have entred not warranted by the Law of God and the Land in this Case they must teach themselves and others that such Oaths call for Repentance not Pertinacy