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A68832 A briefe vievve of the weake grounds of popery as it was propounded to D. Norrice, priest, by T.V. gent: and returned without answere. Udall, Thomas. 1606 (1606) STC 24508.5; ESTC S119623 62,322 134

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make That the various meanes of determination triall and declaration of the trueth is necessary for the recouery of Heretikes and for the contentation of the weake who not alwaies giuing ouer to one mans determination wil either yéeld to the iudgement of all the learned men and Blshops of all Nations or else remaine desperate For since there is so variable censures of Councels Aene. Sylu. de Concil Basil contr Flor. Ferrar in Conc. indict Concil Const Sess 4. 5. some holding the Pope to bee aboue the Councell and some holding the Councell to be aboue the Pope If this point be soundly prooued That Peters Sée hath so the assistance of the holy Ghost that it cannot erre all other causes of the necessitie of Fathers or learned Bishops of all Nations is superfluous for if the priuiledge of not erring belong to the Pope and his successors why is it made common to them with the rest of the Church If it appertaine to the whole Church why is it appropriated to the Pope But why doe they bring Scriptures to prooue this speciall priuiledge to belong to the Pope Séeing Canus and Bellarmine two great Champions of the Romish Church doe both confesse that It is not in the Scripture but by Tradition that the Pope hath this supremacie Locor Theolo li 6. c. 8. First Canus doth graunt That it is not written in the Scriptures that the Pope succeedeth Peter in the supremacie And Bellarmine the great Iesuite sayth That whereas Canus thought that the stories haue sufficient ground to conuey Peters right vnto the Pope because they say Peter set his chaire at Rome there died yet sayth he Controu 4. q. 5. de pont finitae 26. Maij. An. 1578. if learned men shall not allow of that Another ground may bee that the Church receiued it though not by Scripture yet by Tradition And to put the matter out of controuersie he defineth that indeed it is a Tradition not of Christ Licet Romanos Episcopos Petro succedere in sacris libris nō habeatur Scriptum ab Apostolis tamen Ecclesiae quasi per Manus Traditum est Romanum pontificem esse Petri successorem in pontificatu totius orbis habetur extraditione Apostolica etri but of the Apostles and lest we should doubt of which of the Apostles he nameth the man Peter euen a tradition of Peter And therefore if you will follow the iudgement of this learned Iesuite which you all receiue with so great applause then renounce the vnlearned follies of your Rhemists and others who violently wrest the Scriptures to prooue the Popes priuiledge For when you vrge these places Thou art Peter and on this rocke c. and I haue prayed for thee Peter and Peter feede my sheepe You presume much of the simplicitie of your hearers otherwise you would neuer reason so absurdly For though Stapleton and some others vpon the 16. of Matth. by these words Thou art Peter c. alleage the first Popes of Rome most holy martyrs to prooue the Popes Supremacie by the Scriptures and do reckon vp Anacletus Alexander the 1. Pius the 1. Victor Zepherinus Marcellus Melchiades Locor Theolo li. 6. c. 8 Bellar. cont 4. q. 5. Iulius and others yet doeth Canus and Bellarmine prooue that it is grounded on Tradition and Canus doth cite for witnesses therof the first Popes of Rome most holy martyrs And the same Popes which are alleaged by Canus to prooue the Supremacie to be an vnwritten trueth the very same Popes are alleaged by Stapletō to proue that It is written euen Anacletus Victor Zepherinus Marcellus Melchiades Iulius yea the very same Epistles are alleaged by Stapletō which are alleaged by Canus Now if they be rightly cited by Canus how may we trust Stapletō if rightly by Stapl. how may we trust Canus if rightly by both what trim Popes are they the with one breath do say That the same thing is both written and vnwritten But the Iesuite dealeth more warily who séeing the danger of naming speciall men and places doeth shrowde himselfe in the generall tearmes of Councels Popes and Fathers Thus you sée how the Lord doth sheath the swords of the Madianites in their owne sides Iudg. 7.22 But let vs sée how the Fathers vnderstood these Scriptures that are brought to priuiledge the Pope from erring and set downe their sayings at large though we haue briefly before in the 14. Question part 3 vrged their authorities Aug. de ver Domini secundū Mat. serm 13. S. Augustine expoundeth the first place thus Thou art Peter saith Christ and vpon this Rocke which thou hast confessed vpon this Rocke which thou hast acknowledged by saying Thou art Christ the Sonne of the liuing God wil I build my Church that is vpon my selfe the Sonne of the liuing God will I build my Church I wil build thee vpon me not my selfe vpon thee S. Hillary saith Hillar de Trin. li. 30 This onely is the immoueable foundation This onely is the happy rocke of faith which was confessed by Peters mouth Thou art the Son of the liuing God Then vpō this rock of cōfession standeth the building of the Church Ambr. in 2. ca. epist ad Ephe. Saint Ambrose saith The Lord saith to Peter Vpon this rocke will I build my Church that is in this confession of the Catholike faith Faith therefore is the foundation of the Church for it was not spoken of Peters flesh but of faith That hell gates should not preuaile against it but that confession conquered hell Chrys Hom. 55. in Mat. Chrysostome sayth Vpon this Rocke will I build my Church that is vpon this faith and confession Bed in ca. 21. Iohan. Bede likewise Vpon this Rocke which thou hast confessed will I build my Church That Rocke was Christ vpon the which foundation euen Peter himselfe was to be builded 1. Cor. 3. These Fathers meane as Saint Paul doth saying Another foundation can no man lay than that which is already layd which is Iesus Christ Others there are of the Fathers that applie this rocke to Peter but not as though he alone were the foundation but including the rest with him Hiero. lib. 1. aduer Iouin As for example Saint Hierom saith Thou wilt say the Church is built on Peter notwithstanding the selfe same in another place is done vpon al the Apostles and they all receiue the Keyes of the kingdome of heauen and the stedfastnesse of the Church is equally setled vpon them Origen sayth If onely vpon Peter Origen in 16. Math. Tract 1. thou thinkest the whole Church to be built what wilt thou say to Iohn and euery of the Apostles shall wee dare say that against Peter onely the gates of hell shall not preuaile And that also vpon this Rocke I will builde my Church For if this speach To thee will I giue the Keyes of the kingdome of heauen be common to all why then should
euen by the learned Papists themselues and their Vniuersities yet doe they alleage them against vs in many of their bookes especially in the Rhemes Testament to giue countenance to Popish errors See pag. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. 32. 33. 10 That the consent of the Fathers cannot be shewed nay scarce any ancient Father that all controuersies are to bee determined by the Pope or that hee cannot erre or that hee must summon Councels or that they are of no authoritie vnlesse they bee confirmed by the Pope And yet are these doctrines held Catholike by the Papists and reputed the chiefe pillars of Popery See pag. 75. 11 That al those places of Scripture which are brought by the Papists either to prooue the Popes prerogatiue or the authority of the Church or that the Church cannot erre are by the Fathers writing purposely vpon the same places expounded according to the Protestants sense giuen and contrary to the sense which the Papists giue So farre are the Papists from proouing the generall consent of the Fathers in expounding these Scriptures which they commonly obiect against vs as Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it Or the promises of the holy Ghost to be sent to the Church to leade it into all trueth Or To thee will I giue the keyes of the kingdom of Heauen Or The Church is the pillar and ground of Trueth Or Tell the Church Or if hee heare not the Church let him be to thee as an heathen or as a Publicane Or whatsoeuer thou bindest in earth shall be bound in heauen Or any other place of Scripture to the sayd purposes to bee on their side as namely that those Texts should be meant of the Pope Generall Councell or the Church of Rome See pag. 66. 67. 68. 69. 70. 12 That Generall Councels haue erred haue beene contrary one to another haue been reiected by the Papists themselues and so are no sure Rule to build our faith on See pag. 48. 49. 50. 51. 52. 53. 54. 55. 13 That the Popes whom they would haue to be supreame Iudges in al Controuersies haue erred iudicially haue been heretikes as maintaining the heresie of the Monothelites subscribing to the Arrian heresie to the Nestorian heresie haue offered sacrifice to idoles haue been Necromancers and Coniurers See pag. 58. 59. 60. 61. 62. 14 That the Pope can be no competent Iudge and whereunto the Fathers referre vs. See pag. 93 c. LEt me request thee Courteous reader to take no●ice that the Texts of Scripture and testimonies of the Fathers cited by me in this Treatise should all haue been set downe in a different letter from the rest of the matter wherewith they are ranked accordingly as you see performed in the Preface and in the later halfe of the booke Now by meanes of my absence and want of direction giuen in this point it could not be discerned by the Printer howe farre the wordes of the Text and Testimonies so to bee distinguished might reach And therefore I cannot but free him from that blame as likewise 2. or 3. literal escapes only excepted from imputation of any the faults hereunder specified some of them being committed in my Copie and the rest through difficulty and darknes of the hand might easily be mistaken In the Text. Page 5. line 7. for allured reade allowed pag. 8. l. 17. Trations Traditions p. 11 l. 19. Priests proofe p. 29. l. ●6 addeth alleageth p. 29. l. 17. tehimony testimony p. 31. l. 2. for 25 15. p. 33. l. 7. fault fable p. 40. l. 9. ch●ice chiefe p. 72. l. 8. cannot which cannot p. 89. l. 1. sense the sense In the Margent Pag. 7. for De Bapt. c. 6. li. 1. reade De Bapt. cont Don. li. 3. pag. 7. prat reade pont pag. 8. 1. Thes 2. Thes pag. 12. 1. Pet. 2.18 1. Pet. 1.18 pag. 20. Aug. in Frut Aug. in Enar. pag. 14. de fulta de falsa pag. 35. li. 1. cap. 22. li 1. cap 23. pag. 36. Tim. Tit. pag. 52. Epist 16 7. Epist 167. pag. 59. against Pope Coelestine C. laudab de conuers Infidel is omitted
not all that which goeth before and followeth after as spoken to Peter be common to them all The next place is I haue prayed for thee Peter c. What then shall wee conclude hereof that Peter and his successours cannot fayle in any point of faith wherein they giue definitiue sentence and that the Pope cannot erre iudicially No but hereby is meant a liuely Christian faith which is not our priuate exposition as they commonly obiect against vs but the iudgement of Austin Aug. de correp gratia ca. 8. Chrys Hom. 83. in Mat. 72. in Iohn Prosper de vocatione gent. c. 24. Theoph. in Luk. 22. Chrysostome Prosper and Theophilact who all doe vnderstand by faith in that place a liuely Christian faith and say That Christ prayed that Peter might continue therein to the end which grace neither they nor any Father sayth that all the Popes haue Nay your Doctors Turrec in sum de eccle ca. 12. Can. locor Theo. li. 6. cap. 1. Bellar. cont 4 par 2. q. 1. In annot Luk. 22. Bed in Gal. 2 Theophil in Luc. 23. Chrysost in Mat. Ho. 83. Turrecremata Canus Bellarmine and your Rhemists confesse the contrary As I saith Bede speaking in the person of Christ haue by prayers protected thy faith lest by temptation of Satan it should haue failed so thou also remember to lift vp and cōfort thy weake brethren by example of thy repentance lest peraduenture they should despaire of pardon And our Sauiour Christ did by these wordes put him in mind of his fall to coole the heate of pride and vainglory if I may so say with Theophilact and Chrysostome Fulk in Rhem. Test in Luk 22. Sectin And S. Basil citeth this text to prooue that we ought to pray for them that are sought in tēptations In these words you sée are taught the duety of Peter of euery Christian man in the like case no prerogatiue either for Peter or his successors And vpon that place Feed my sheepe the Fathers build no prerogatiue of Peter but rather do interpret it of his loue duty as S. Augustine Aug. 123. in Ioh Tract Cyril li. 12. ca. 46. in Ioh. Chrysost in Ioh. Ho. 87. Cyril and Chrysostome doe expound the place where to a thréefold denial is rendred a thréefold confession lest his tongue should be lesse seruiceable to loue than it was to feare And there is a reason giuen according to the Scripture why Peter should loue more because he had offended more for to whō more is remitted he ought to loue more as Cyril saith So that out of the iudgement of these Fathers Peters offence to be greater than the rest may better be proued than any prerogatiue to Peter or the Pope Fulk in Rhe. Test in Ioh. 21 sect 4. sée their testimonies more largely set downe by D. Fulke against the Rhemists yea this point is so cléere that it is confirmed by the testimonie of chiefe and learned Papists themselues Alfonsus saith Alfons li. 1. ca. 4 caus 24. q. Euery man may erre in faith euen the Pope himselfe and the same is confessed by the best of your side both Canonists and Diuines De Flect C. Significast Panormitane saith A Councel may condemne the Pope of Heresie as appeareth in in the 40. dist ca. Si Papa where it is saide That the Pope may be an Heretike and iudged of Heresie Alfonsus saith The Pope may erre in faith Alfons li. 1. cap. 7. as the truer opinion is euen of them that fauour the Popedome verie much Amonge whome is Innocentius the 4. of that name Bishop of Rome writing vpon the first Chapter de trinitate Arboreus Theosoph li. 4 cap. 32. a Doctor of Paris one of your chiefe Sorbonistes saith The Pope may erre in faith And he seemeth to me to be in foule Error that thinketh otherwise Surely they but flatter the Bishoppe of Rome that make him free from falling into Heresie and Schisme Gerson the Chancellor of Paris saith The Pope may swarue from the faith Gerson in Tract An liceat in causa fidei à pontifice appellare Panor apud Syl. de fide § 9. Syluest de ecclesi § 4. as well as an other Bishop Panormitan sayth Thus must the Gloze be vnderstood which sayth that the Church cannot erre is not the Pope but the congregation of the faithfull that is such as holde firmely that doctrine which S. Peter with other people taught And the Popes owne Gloze vpon his Decrées doth describe the Church which cannot erre Can. 14. q. 1 Can. A recta in gloss to be the Congregation of the faithfull saying I aske thee O Pope Lucie of what Church thou vnderstādest that which thou tellest vs in this place to wit That the Church cannot erre for if thou vnderstandest it of the Pope himselfe it is very certaine that the Pope may erre I answere therefore that the Church is here taken for the congregation of the faithfull and such a Church cannot erre Lyrain Mat. ca. 6. Lyra sayth Many Popes haue proued Apostates But what néede I to descend to particulars to prooue that the Pope may not only erre in doctrine but also be an heretike since it is a ruled case by your Schoolemen and Canonistes As a in dial p. 1. li. 6. ca. 1. Occam b In summa lib 5. Tit. de Haeret. Hostiensis c Summa de eccles li. 2. ca 93. 112. Turrrecremata d De Schismat pont Zabarella e De concord Catho li. 2. cap. 17. Cusanus f Summa part 3 Tit. 22 cap. 7. Antoninus g Aduers Haer. li. 1. ca. 2 4. Alfonsus h Locor Theol. lib. 6 cap 8 Canus i De visib Monar li 7. Sanders k Contro 4. p 2. qu. 1. Bellarmine l Canonist in distinct 40 si Papa Archid. Iohan. Andrae in fidei de Haereticis in Sext. Caietan de authoritat Pap. Conc. cap. 20. 23. and others m Dist 40. si Pa yea the Canon lawe it selfe n Synod Roma quint. sub Symacho Math. Paris in Henrico 3. sub Anno 1253. Mathaei Chroni in An. 1409. yea A Councel a Romane Councell confirmed by the Pope doe graunt it But to conclude this point wherein it may séeme I haue béen too tedious Sixe hundred prelates 124. Diuines and almost thrée hundred Lawyers with the whole Colledge of Cardinals in your generall Councell of Pisa deposed two Popes Gregory the 12. and Benedict the 13. o Naucler Chronogr genera 47. Anno 1409. as Schismatikes and Heretikes Your Councel of Constance whereas you say were p Genebrard li 2. Chronograph Anno 1414. 4. Patriarches 29. Cardinals 47. Archbishops 270. Bishops 564. Abbots and Doctors in all aboue 900. deposed the same Benedict persisting in his Popedome notwithstanding the former sentence as being Schismaticum Haereticum c. A Schismatike Conc.