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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85036	Truth maintained, or Positions delivered in a sermon at the Savoy: since traduced for dangerous: now asserted for sound and safe. By Thomas Fuller, B.D. late of Sidney Colledge in Cambridge. The particulars are these. I That the doctrine of the impossibility of a churches perfection, in this world, being wel understood, begets not lazinesse but the more industry in wise reformers. II That the Church of England cannot justly be taxed with superstitious innovations. III How farre private Christians, ministers, and subordinate magistrates, are to concurre to the advancing of a publique reformation. IIII What parts therein are only to be acted by the Supreme power. V Of the progresse, and praise of passive obedience. VI That no extraordinary excitations, incitations, or inspirations are bestowed from God, on men in these dayes. VII That it is utterly unlawfull to give any just offence to the papist, or to any men whatsoever. VIII What advantage the Fathers had of us, in learning and religion, and what we have of them. IX That no new light, or new essentiall truths, are, or can be revealed in this age. X That the doctrine of the Churches imperfection, may safely be preached, and cannot honestly be concealed. With severall letters, to cleare the occasion of this book.	Fuller, Thomas, 1608-1661.; Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647. Examinations. Selections.; Fuller, Thomas, 1680-1661. Sermon of reformation. Selections.	1643 (1643)	Wing F2474; Thomason .36[9]; ESTC R23497	61,984	103

prospect opens then into new discoveries if you see no perfect reformation as you stand do not therefore say there is none they that stand higher and on a holyer mountaine perhapps see farther you that stand in the Horizon G of Prelacy cannot see much beyond it Corruption is deceitfull and makes us like Adam see all Generations in our selves because we will not be pefectly reformed let us not argue our Iudgments into a beleeife that we cannot ● let us think it as possible to be the best as easie to be the worst Let us not thinke that a Plato's Common wealth or a Mor'es Vtopia which for ought we know is reall and existent there is under the Gospell I a royall Preisthood an holy nation a peculier People and certainly had former K ages lived to see but the discovery of latter times they would have admired their owne ignorance and our happinesse TREATIS F. They that stand higher and on a holyer mountaine perhapp's see further I deny it not But if they see a perfect Church on earth they see it in a trance or vision G. You that stand in the Horizon of Prelacy cannot see much beyond it Misse not the matter to h●tt my person if I stand in the Horizon of Prelacy I stand no more for it then it stands with Gods glory and will in his word Because you taxe me with dimnesse of sight I will strive by my study to get the best advantage ground I can I will begg of God to animate mine eyes with his * eye salve I will be carefull to keepe mine eyes from being bloodshot by animating any to cruelty in this unnaturall Warr And know Sir that they who stand in the Horizon of Presbutary or Independency are subject also to Errors and mistakes As delight in old Customes may deceive some so desire of Novelty may blind the eyes of others God helpe us all we are badd at the best H. Because we will not be perfectly reformed let us not argue our Iudgments into a beleife that we cannot A distinction or two of perfection and your fallacy will perfectly appeare Some Saints in the Scripture phrase are stiled perfect but then it is Comparatively as they stand in opposition to * wicked men who have no goodnesse at all in them Or else they are called perfect as so denominated from their better part good reason the best Godfather should name the Child their regenerate halfe which desires and delights in endeavoring towards perfection or lastly perfection is taken for integrity sincerity and unrightnesse opposite to inward hippocrisie and in such a perfection the Heart may have many defects by the by but no dissimulation in the maine service of God Such a perfection as this men may have yea must have in this life and without such a perfection here no hope of any happinesse hereafter But as for an exact● legall perfection such as some Papists dreame of and most Anabaptists doate on a perfection able to stand before Gods Iustice without the support of his mercy it is utterly impossible for mortall men to attaine unto it In which sence in my Sermon I said that a Perfect reformation of a Church in this world is difficult to be prescribed and impossible to be practised Yea let me tell you Sir cautious comming from goodwill deserve to be heard if not heeded if you persist in this opinion of exact perfection I conceive your condition dangerous Elisha told King Ioram Beware that thou passe not * such a place for thither the Aramites are come downe I may friendly tell you presse not one any further in this point for spirituall pride lyeth hard by in waite and the ambush thereof will surprise you For my owne part as I hate my badnesse so I hugge the confession that I am badd And Gods children finde both contentment and comfort in knowing they cannot bee perfect Hence they learne what soule so bad which hath not sometimes some holy-day thoughts to loath earth to love Heaven to runne from themselves to fly to their Saviour to pittie others to pray heartily for them to hope comfortably of them in a word this doctine abateth pride increaseth charity and confoundeth censuring Yea I solemnely professe that I would not herein change my doctrine for yours to have much to boote Should I say that I could be perfect both my head and my heart would give my tongue the lye And one of the best hopes I have to goe to Heaven is that I am sute I deserve Hell I remember a strange but true and memerable speech of Reverend Mr. Fox * to this effect that his Graces sometimes did him harme whilst his sinne did him much good A wonderfull thing yet sometimes so it commthe to passe God making a cordiall for us of our owne wickednesse thereby teaching us humility I. There is under the Gospel a Royall Priesthood an holy Nation a peculiar people True Here these things are sincerely begunne and hereafter fully perfected for in this life there is still some basenesse even in the royall priesthood impiety in the holy Nation commonnesse in the Peculiar people And I pray remember you are to prove that a whole Church may bee perfectly reformed in this world For though it were granted that some men might be perfect yet it followeth not thereupon that any one Church is existent on Earth consisting intirely all of perfect members Hipocrites are of so glutenous a nature they will stick close in every visible Church They cannot be devided who cannot be discerned except one could borrow Gods touchstone of hearts such shining drosse will ever passe current in this Kingdome of Grace K. Had former ages lived but to see the discovery of latter times If by former ages you meane the time of Popery I concurre with you If you understand the times of the Primitivs Fathers I suspend my suffrage till the next paragrave But if you extend it to the age of Christ and his Apostles I flatly discent Nor am I sensible of any such late discoveries in Religion though many Recoveries thanks he to God there have been in rescuing the faith from Romish superstition L. They would have admired their owne ignorance and our happinesse By our Happinesse I suppos● you meane what lately we had before this Warre began and what we had not the happinesse to keepe and wee trust in due time God will restore to us againe Otherwise as for our present woefull condition I would not wish our friends or envie our foes such happinesse SERMON Paragarffe 32. There are some now adayes talke of a great light mainfested in this age more then before Indeede we modernes have a mighty advantage of the antients whatsoever was theirs by industry may be ours all contribute themselves to us who live in this latter age EXAMINER If we had no more light then what you insinuate were seene from the Fathers why doe we see more and more cleerely and further

all his creditors together might share his body betwixt them and by joynt consent pluck him in peeces Me thinks a good Morall lurkes in this cruell Law namely that men who oppose one adversary alone may come off and shift pretty well whilst he who provokes many enemies must expect to bee torne asunder and thus the poore Levite will bee rent into as many pieces as the Levites wife was Yet I take not my selfe to bee of so desolate and forlorne a Religion as to have no fellow professors with me If I thought so I should not only suspect but condemne my judgement having ever as much loved singlenesse of heart as I have hated singularity of opinion I conceive not my selfe like Eliah to be left alone having as I am confident in England more then seventy thousand just of the same Religion with me And amongst these there is one in price and value eminently worth tenne thousand even our gratious Soveraigne whom God in safety and honour long preserve amongst us And here I must wash away an aspersion generally but falsely cast on men of my profession and temper for all moderate men are commonly condemned for Luke-warme As it is true Saepe latet vitium proximitate boni It is as true Saepelatet virtus proximitate mali And as Lukewarmnesse hath often fared the better the more mens ignorance for pretending neighbourhood to moderation so Moderation the more her wrong hath many times suffered for having some supposed vicinity with lukewarmnesse However they are at a grand distance Moderation being an wholesome Cordiall to the soule whilst lukewarmnesse a temper which seekes to reconcile hot and cold is so distastefull that health it selfe seemes sick of it and vomits it out And we may observe these differences betwixt them First the Lukewarme man though it be hard to tell what he is who knowes not what he is himselfe is fix't to no one opinion and hath no certain creed to beleeve Whereas the Moderate man sticks to his principles taking Truth wheresoever he findes it in the opinions of friend or foe gathering an herb though in a ditch and throwing away a weed though in a Garden Secondly the Lukewarme man is both the archer and marke himselfe aiming only at his owne outward security The Moderate man levels at the glory of God the quiet of the Church the choosing of the Truth and contenting of his conscience Lastly the Lukewarme man as hee will live in any Religion so he will dye for none The Moderate man what he hath warily chosen will valiantly maintaine at least wise intends and desires to defend it to the death The Kingdome of Heaven saith our Saviour suffereth violence And in this sense I may say the most moderate men are the most violent and will not abate an hoofe or haires breadth in their Opinions whatsoever it cost them And time will come when Moderate men shall be honoured as Gods Doves though now they be hooted at as Owles in the Desart But my Letter swels too great I must break off Only requesting the reader by all obligations of charity First to read over my Sermon before he entreth on the Examination To conclude when I was last in London it was generally reported that I was dead nor was I displeased to heare it May I learne from hence with the Apostle To Die daily And because to God alone t is known how soon my death may come I desire to set forth this book as my Will and Testament which if it can be of no use to the reader it may be some ease and comfort to the writer that the world may know in this multitude of Religions what is the Religion of Thy Servant in Christ Iesus Thomas Fuller TRUTH Maintained EXAMINER The A Policy of the Sermon of Reformation THE Scope of the Sermon is Reformation but it so B moderates so modificates and conditionates the Persons and Time and Businesse that Reformation can advance C little in this way or Method As our Astronomers who draw so many Lines and imaginary Circles in the Heavens that they put the Sunne into an heavenly Labyrinth and learned D perplexity such is the Zodiack E you would make for the light of the Gospell and the Sunne of Reformation to move in It was one of the Policyes of the Jewes F Adversaries that when they heard of their Buildings they would build with them They said let us build with you for we seeke your God as you doe But the People of God would have no such Helpers there is no such G Jesuiticall way to hinder our worke as to work with us and under such Insinuations set the Builders at variance when they should fall to labour And how easie is it to reason Flesh and Blood back from a good way and good Resolutions I remember the old H Prophet had soon perswaded even the man of God to returne when he told him I am a Prophet as thou art Treatise A. The Policy of the Sermon Such carnall Policy wherein the subtilty of the Serpent stings the simplicity of the Dove to death I utterly disclaim in my Sermon Christian Policy is necessary as in our Practice so in our Preaching for Piety is alwayes to goe before it but never to goe without it B. But it so moderates and modificates The most Civill Actions will turne wild if not warily moderated But if my Sermon clogges Reformation with false or needlesse Qualifications till the strength of the matter leakes out at them my guilt is great I am confident of my Innocence let the Evidence be produced and the Reader judge C. That Reformation can advance but little in this way Know that Zoar a little one that is lasting is better then a great Babel of Confusion That Reformation which begins slowly and surely will proceed cheerfully and comfortably and continue constantly and durably Builders are content to have their Foundations creepe that so their Superstructures may runne let us make our Ground-worke good and no more hast then good speed D. They put the Sunne into an heavenly Labyrinth and learned perplexity with their imaginary Lines This your strong line more perplexeth me to understand it Onely this I know that you might have instanced more properly in any other Planet which is more loaden with Cycles and Epicycles whilst the Sunne hath found from Astronomers this favour and freedome to be left to the simplest Motion E. Such a Zodiack you would make for the light of the Gospell were I to spread the Zodiack of the Gospell it should stretch from Pole to Pole and be adequate to the Heavens There should be no more Pagans in the World then there were Smiths at one time in Israel not that I would have any kild but all converted yea the Sunne of Reformation should not have so much darknesse as a shadow to follow it To effect this my wishes are as strong as my power is weake I will God willing

preferment now disuse them in despaire thereof not to say some of them are as violent on the contrary side and perchanee onely wait the Word of command from the prevalent party to turne Faces about againe In briefe seeing generally these Ceremonies are left off it seems neither Manners nor Charity alwayes to lay that in mens dishes which the Voider some pretty while since hath cleane taken away Say not that these Innovations are now rather in a swound then dead likly to revive when cherished with the warmth of Authority seeing His Majesty hath often and fully proffered that whatsoever is justly offensive in them shall be removed and pitty it is but that the rest should by the same lawfull power be re-enforced But enough hereof and more perchance then will please the Reader though lesse could not have satisfied the Writer if I have contented any well If I have displeased all I am contented B. Therefore goe not on to perswade such a Fundamentall Integrity and Essentiall purity Indeed the pains may well be spared for all wise men are sufficiently perswaded thereof already For if hereby you meane and I would faine learne what other sence your words are capable of that the Church of England hath not as yet been Entire in the Fundamentals and Pure in the Essentials to Salvation We all are in a wofull Condition Have we lived thus long in our Church now to dye eternally therein Seeing none can be saved therein if it be unsound in the Fundamentals of Religion must the thousand six hundred forty third yeer from Christ's birth be the first yeer of the nativity of the Church of England from which she may date her Essentiall purity Sir I could at the same time childe you with anger bemoane you with pitty blush for you with shame were it not that I conceive this passage fell unawares from your pen and that you intend to gather it up againe C. You know in what a case that Church was when shee thought her selfe rich and full and glorious Good Sir accept of my service to stay you or else run on till you be stopt by your owne wearinesse Our Church never brag'd thus her selfe nor any other for her whose faults we have already freely confessed yet maintained her to be sound in all Fundamentals and pure in all Essentials SERMON Paragraffe 12. A thorow Reformation we and all good men desire with as strong affections though perhaps not with so loud a noyse as any whatsoever EXAMINER If your thorow Reformation in this page be compared with your fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen pages where you have bound it up with so many D Restrictions the fallacy will soon appeare You would smoothly tax some Brethren for clamour E and noyse in their desires after Reformation Indeed if you could perswade the Prophets of God into silence or slight endeavours halfe your Designe were finished but they have a Fire which flames into stronger expressions If the zeale of the Prophets and F Martyrs had given no further testimony to the truth then their own Bosomes we had not had at this day such a cloud of witnesses you know these loud importunities awaken and hasten men unto that holy G Businesse you would so faine retard If you think it your vertue that you can be silent in the midst of our importunities and loud cryes after Reformation I am sure 't is your policy too for should you make too great a noyse after it you might be heard H to Oxford and perhaps you are loath to speake out till you see further TREATIS D. Fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen pages where you have bound it up with so many Restrictions Indeed I bound Reformation with Restrictions but such as are Girdles to strengthen it not fetters to burthen it and thereupon no fallacy but plaine dealing will appeare And if those pages you instanee in be guilty of any such fault no doubt when your examination doth come to them you will presse it home and I shall be ready to make my best defence E. You would smoothly tax some Brethren for clamour If any be faulty herein they deserve not onely to be smoothly taxed but sharply reproved For clamour as the English word is taken in Scripture sounds in a bad sense as arguing an ill tempered Spirit with a mixture of pride and impatience And as Reformation ought to be prosecuted and sought after with holy and zealous importunity farre from all Lethargicall dulnesse and carnall stupidity so it must be done with a quiet and compose soule a grace commended by the Apostle Now grant none to be guilty yet seeing all are subject especially in tumultuous times to clamour and passionate extravagancies my gentle Advertisement by the bye could not be amisse F If the zeale of the Prophets and Martyrs had given I thanke you Sir for mentioning the Martyrs They were the Champions of passive obedience and the lively Patternes of that holy Temper I now described Men of a meeke and quiet disposition not clamorous though since their death the noyse and fame of their patience hath sounded aloud thorow the whole world to all Posterity And I pray God in continuance of time the very Doctrine of Martyrdome be not Martyred G That holy Businesse you would so faine retard I appeale from your hard Censure to the Searcher of hearts who one day will acquit my innocence and punish your uncharitablenesse except it be first pardoned upon your repentance H For should you make so great a noyse you might be heard to Oxford I care not how farre I be heard nor which way to Oxford and beyond it to Geneva or to Rome it selfe Truth is Calculated for all meridians But speake not slightingly of Oxford it is ill wounding of a Court and a Camp and an University and all in one word I And perhaps you are loath to speak out till you see farther I see too farre already namely that ruine and desolation is likely to follow except Moderation be used on both sides If you meane till I see farther into His Majesties pleasure of Reforming what shall be found amisse his unfained desire thereof doth already plainly appeare But if you meane till I see farther into his successe know Sir my Religion observes not the tides of His Majesties Fortune to ebbe and flow therewith Where Conscience is the Fountaine the stream keeps the same height SERMON Paragraffe 12. But with this Qualification that by thorow Reformation we meane such a one whereof we are capable pro statu viatorum made with all due and Christian Moderation EXAMINER You write of the Reformation of a Church like K Bod●● not like Bucer you make it a worke of Policy L not of Piety of Reason not Divinity Such Counsellers had M Jeroboam and Jehu and they made a Church as unhappy as a Kingdome miserable This Moderation and Qualification you speak of is not so consistent with spirituall Essenses and N operations If the

Spirit of God should not work in the soules of O unregenerate but expect an answerable Compliancy first who should be sanctified If God had expected any such Congruity in our businesse of salvation we had been unredeemed To speak P closer what Qualification did Queen Q Elizabeth expect when shee received a Kingdome warm from Popery What Qualification did R Henry the eight expect in his Attempt against the Supremacy when all his Kingdome was so universally conjured to Rome Such Moderation and Qualification is no other but a discreet taking so much as will serve your turne To the law saith the Scripture S and to the Test mony Moses wrought according to the Patterne so Salomon too godly Bucer makes it his worke to perswade King Edward to build up a perfect Church and he V prophesies sadly that he was afraid Popery would succeed because the Kingdome of England was so averse to the Kingdome of Christ And we know the Marian dayes followed me-thinkes we are too like his proprophesie and our W Marian times approach too fast TREATIS K You write of a Reformation of a Church like Bodin Would I wrote like Bodin though on the condition that I never wrote Answer to your Examinations Would we had some Bodins some such able States-men that they might improve their parts to advance an happy Accommodation betwixt our Sovereigne and his Subjects L You make it a worke of Policy not of Piety I make it as indeed it is a work both of Moses and Aaron wherein Piety is to be prefer'd and Policy is not to be excluded M Such Counsellours had Jeroboam and Jehu Sir shoot your Arrowes at me till your Quiver be empty but glance not with the least slenting insinuation at His Majesty by consequence to compare him to Jeroboam or Jehu for their Idolatry He knoweth how to bestow his Gold farre better and to leave the Calves for others N This Moderation and Qualification you speake of is not so consistent with spirituall Essenses and Operations This your line is not so consistent with sense as to need much lesse deserve a Confutation O If the Spirit of God should not have wrought in the souls of Unregenerate I wonder that allotting as you say but one afternoon for the whole work of your Examination you could spend so much time some minutes at least in such impertinencies P To speake closer And truly no more then needs for as yet you are farre enough from the matter But I will not confute what you confesse Q What Qualification did Queen Elizabeth expect She needed not to expect any when she had all Requisites to reforme Those who have such Qualification are not to expect but to fall a working those that want it are not to fall a working but still to expect Queen Elizabeth as supream in her Dominions had a sufficient calling to reforme nothing was wanting in her Onely her Memory doth still deservedly expect a more thankfull acknowledgement of her worthy paines then generally she hath received hitherto R What Qualification did Henry the eight expect in his attempt against supremacy He likewise had Qualification sufficient and therefore needed not to expect any as your following words doe witnesse wherein you say that All his Kingdome was universally conjured to Rome If it was his Kingdome then he had a calling if it was conjured to Rome then he had a cause to reforme and being the King was bound to be the Exorcist to un-conjure his Subjects from such superstition Yea had King Henry reformed as sincerely as he had a lawfull Calling thereunto his memory had not been constantly kept in such a purgatory of mens tongues for his lukewarme Temper even the most moderate counting him too good for to be condemned and too bad to be commended S To the Law saith the Scripture and to the testimony I will treasure up this excellent passage till a convenient time being confident that before the next Paragraffe is examined I shall appeale to these Judges and you decline them T Godly Bucer makes it his worke to perswade King Edward to build up a perfect Church The book of godly Bucer which you cite I have seene on the selfe same token that therein he makes a Bishops to be above Presbyters Jure divino You know Bucer wrote this worke as leading the front of his Opera Anglicana in the very beginning of King Edwards reigne before the Reformation was generally received in England and whilst as yet Popery was practised in many places And next to this his book followeth his gratulation to the English Church for their entertaining of the Purity of the Gospell so that what he doth perswade in the book you alleadge was in some good measure performed in that Ks. reign and afterwards better compleated by Queen Elizabeth V And he prophesieth sadly that he was afraid Popery would succeed Herein he took shrewd aime and it happened he hit right Such predictions are onely observed when afterwards they chance to take effect otherwise if missing the marke men misse to marke them and no notice at all is taken of them I know a latter Divine not the lowest in learning one of the highest in b zeale amongst them who foretelleth that Atheisme rather then Popery is likely to overrunne England Such Presages may serve to admonish not to afright us as not proceeding from a propheticall spirit but resulting from prudentiall observations But before we take our farewell of this book of Bucers it will not be amisse to remember another passage not to say presage in the same worthy worke that we may see what sinnes in his opinion were forerunners of ruine in a Kingdome The margin presents the Reader with the c latin which I here translate though the former part thereof be englished already in mens practise and the latter I feare will be englished in Gods judgements How horrible an affront doe they doe to the Divine Majesty who use the Temples of the Lord for Galleries to walk● in and for places so prophane that in them with their fellowes that prattle and treat of any uncleane and prophane businesse This sure is so great a contempt of God that long since even for this alone we have deserved altogether to be banished from the face of the earth and to be punished with heaviest judgements Such I am afraid will fall on our nation for their abominable abusing of Churches besides other of their sinnes and prophaning the places of Gods worship Not to speake of those and yet what man can hold his tongue when the mouthes of graves are forced open who in a place to vvhich their guilty conscience can point vvithout my pens direction did by breaking up the Sepulchers of our Saxon Christian Kings erect an everlasting Monument to their ovvn sacriledge Such practises must needs provoke Gods anger and now me-thinks I write of the Reformation of a Church like Bucer and not like Bodin W Me-thinks we are too

like his prophesie and our Marian times approach too fast I hope otherwise trusting on a good God and a gracious King But if those times doe come woe be to such as have been the cause or occasion to bring or hasten them One day it will be determined whether the peevish perverse and undiscreet spirit of Sectaries bringing a generall dis-repute on the Protestant hath not concurred to the inviting in of superstition and Popery may come riding in on the back of Anabaptisme If those times doe come I hope that God who in justice layeth on the burthen will in mercy strengthen our shoulders and what our prayers cannot prevent our patience must undergoe Nor is it impossible with God so to enable those whom you tax to have onely a forme of Godlinesse to have such Power thereof as to seale the Protestant Religion with their blood SERMON Paragraffe 13. 14. Such who are to be the true and proper Reformers they must have a lawfull calling thereunto duties which God hath impaled for some particular persons amongst these Actions Reformation of a Church is chiefe Now the supreame Power alone hath a lawfull calling to reforme a Church as it plainely appeares by the Kings of Judah in their Kingdome EXAMINER I had not knowne your meaning by the lawfull calling you name but that you expound it in the lines that follow to be the calling of the supreame Magistrate as if no calling were warrantable at first to X promove a Reformation but that But you must take notice there is an inward and an outward Call The inward Call is a Y speciall excitation from the Spirit of God and such a Call is warrantable by God to be active I am sure it hath beene sufficient alwayes to set holy men on worke Another Call is outward and that is either of Place and Magistracy or publike Relation Now though Magistracy be of publike Relation yet when I speake specifically of publike Relation I meane that in which every man stands bound in to God and his Country now all these Callings are commissions enough either to meddle as Christianly inspired or Christianly ingaged In ordinary transactions I know the ordinary dispensation is to be resorted to but the businesse of Reformation as it is extraordinary so God giveth extraordinary Conjunctures of times and circumstances and extraordinary concurrences and extraordinary incitations In the building of the Temple you shall see in Ezra and Nehemiah such workings of God when the people were gathered together as one man they spake to Ezra the Scribe to bring the Book of the Law of Moses Here the people put on even Ezra to his duty TREATIS Before I deale with the particulars of this examination I will enlarge not alter what I said in my Sermon of this point promising as much brevity as God shall enable me to temper with Clearnesse and desiring the Readers patience whilst at mine owne perill I deliver my opinion But first here we promise necessary distinction Distinguish we betwixt those Times when the Church liveth under Pagan or persecuting Princes and when God blesseth her with a Christian King defender of the Faith In the former case the Church may and must make an hard shift to reforme her selfe so well as she can for many things will be wanting and more will be but meanly supplyed without any relating to a supreame Power whose leave therein will be dangerous to desire and impossible to obtaine But withall they must provide themselves to suffer offering no violence except it be to drowne a Tyrant in their teares or to burne him with coales of kindnesse heaped on his head In the latter case when the supreame Power is a nursing Father to the Church suckling it not sucking blood from it the Church must have recourse to it before shee may reforme Reforming of a Church must neither stay behind for Nero his leave nor runne before without the consent of Constantine Religion it selfe must not be deckt with those flowers which are violently pluck'd from the Crownes of lawfull Princes Come we now then to shew how in a Christian state all are to contribute their joynt endeavours to promote a Reformation In a Church and such a State I consider three degrees thereof First meere private men without any mixture of a publike Relation Secondly persons placed in a middle posture with the Centurian in publike imployment over some yet under Authority themselves Thirdly the absolute supreame Power who depends of God alone For the first of these meere private men they have nothing to doe in publike reforming but to advance it by their hearty prayers to God and to facilitate the generall Reformation by labouring to amend their owne and their Families lives according to the Word this is all God requireth of them and more I feare then most of them will performe Next succeed those persons in a middle posture and these are either Ministers or Magistrates Ministers even the meanest of them have thus far their part in publike Reforming that they are to lift up their voice like a Trumpet though not like Sheba his Trumpet to sound sedition both to reprove vitiousnesse in Manners and to confute errors in Doctrine And if men of power and imminent place in the Church then as their ingagement is greater so their endeavours must be stronger to presse and perswade a publike Reformation to such whom it doth concerne Magistrates may have more to doe in publike Reforming having a calling from God who therefore hath set them in a middle place betwixt Prince and people to doe good offices under the one over the other betwixt both And having a calling from the King especially if they be his Counsellours whose good they are to advance by all lawfull meanes and rather to displease him with their speech then to dishonour him with their silence and having a calling from their Country whose safety they must be tender and carefull of First therefore they are with all industry both from the Ministers mouth and by their owne inquiry to take true notice of such defects and deformities in the Church or State as are really to be reformed Secondly they are with all sincerity to represent the same to the supreame Power Thirdly with all humility to request the amendment of such Enromities Fourthly with all gravity to improve their request with arguments from Gods glory the Princes honour the peoples profit and the like Lastly with their best judgement to propound and commend the fairest way whereby a Reformation may as speedily as safely be effected And if they meet with difficulties in the supreame Power delaying their request they are not to be disheartned but after their servent prayers to God who alone hath the hearts of Kings in his hands they are constantly to re●ue their request at times more seasonable in places more proper with expressions more patheticall having their words as full of earnestnesse as their deeds farre from violence

without or beside it And as hereby they are heightned to an Heroicall degree of Piety so though sometimes we may say of them in a Rhetoricall expression that they goe beyond themselves yet they never goe beyond their calling nor never goe beyond Gods Commandements Now if any shall pretend that they have an extraordinary excitation to make a publique Reformation without the consent of the supreame Power to whom by Gods law it belongs such an excitation cannot come from the holy Ghost For if the spirit of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets much more is it subject to the God of the Prophets and to the law of that God And truly Sir this passage of extraordinary incitations as it is by you rawly laid downe and so left containeth in it seed enough if well or rather ill husbanded to sow all the Kingdome with sedition especially in an age wherein the Anabaptist in their actions beaten out of the field by Gods Word doe daily slye to this their Fort of extraordinary excitations And you may observe when God gave extraordinary excitations quo ad regulam stirring up men to doe things contrary to the received rule of his Commandements then such excitations were alwayes attended with extraordinary operations Phinehas who killed Cosby and Zim●y could stay the plague with his prayer and Eliah who cursed the Captaines with their fifties could cause fire to come downe on them from Heaven It appeares this his curse was pronounced without malice because inflicted by a miracle It is lawfull for such to call for fire who can make fire come at their call and would nore would kindle discord on Earth till first they fetcht the sparks thereof from Heaven Neither doe we proudly tempt Gods providence but truly trye such mens pretended extraordinary incitations if when they wander from Gods Commandements in their Actions and plead inspirations we require of them to prove the truth of such inspirations by working a miracle Now Sir you being as it seemes an opposite to Prelacy would make strange worke to put downe one Ordinary in a Diocesse and set up many extraordinaries in every Parish And for ought I know if some pretend extraordinary excitations publikely to reforme against the will of the supreame Power such as side with the supreame Power may with as much probability alleadge extraordinary excitations to oppose and crosse the others Reformation and so betwixt them both our Church and State will be sufficiently miserable And now Sir remember what you said in the last Paragraffe To the law saith the Scripture and to the Testimony to such Judges we may safely appeale from all your speciall excitations extraordinary Incitations and christian Inspirations B In the building of the Temple you shall see in Ezra and Nehemiah such workings of God when the people were gathered together as one man they spake to Ezra the Scribe to bring the Booke of● the law of Moses The unanimous consent of so many we acknowledge to be Gods worke O that we might see the like agreement in England where the people are so farre from being gathered together as one man that almost every one man is distracted in his thoughts like the times and scattered from himselfe as if he were many people Well they spake to Ezra to bring the Booke of he law what of all this C Here the people put on even Ezra to his duty And little speaking would spurre on him who of himselfe was so ready to runne in his calling But I pray what was this Ezra who were these people Ezra was indeed a Priest a learned Scribe of the law who brought up a party out of Babylon to Jerusalem armed with a large patent and Commission from Artaxerxes The people here were the whole body of the Jewish Church and State together with Zerobabel the Prince and Jeshuah the high Priest who by leave from the Persian King had the chiefe managing of spirituall and temporall matters And judge how little this doth make for that purpose to which you alleadge it that from hence private persons may either make the supreame power to reforme or doe it without his consent Had you free leave of the whole Scripture to range in and could the fruit of your paines find out no fitter instance for your purposes EXAMINER And whereas you say Reformation is of those duties that are D impaled in for some particular persons I answer this were a grand designe if you could heighten E Reformation into such a holy prodigy as you would of late the Church into the Prelacy and F Clergy and excluded the Layty as a prophane G Crew and to be taught their distance Luther H will tell you this is one of the Roman engines to make such an holy businesse like the mountaine in the law not to be touc●t or approacht to but by Moses alone Thus you might take off many good Workemen and honest l Labourers in the Vineyard whom Christ hath hired and sent in and to whom he hath held out his Scepter as Ahasuerus to Ester TREATIS D And whereas you say Reformation is of those duties that are impaled in for some particular persons It appeares that publike Reformation is so impaled for whereas every man is commanded to observe the Sabbath honour his Parents and every man forbidden to have other Gods worship Images take Gods Name in vaine kill steale c. Yet the supreame Power alone in Scripture is called on for publike Reformation and no private person as Saint Austin hath very well observed E I answer this were a grand designe if you could heighten Reformation into such an holy Prodigy I need not heighten it which is so high a worke of it selfe that our longest armes cannot reach it though we stand on the tip-toes of our best desires and endeavours till God shall first be pleased to send us a peace A prodigy it is not not long since you tearmed it an extraordinary businesse yet if it be performed whilst warre lasteth it is a worke of the Lord and may justly seeme mervallous in our eyes F As you would of late the Church into the Prelacy and the Clergy When and where did I doe this I ever accounted that the Cetus fi●●l●um the Congregation of the faithfull was Gods Church on earth Yet I often find the Church represented in generall Counsels by the Prelacy and Clergy who are or should be the best wisest in the Church their decisions in matters of Religion interpreted and received as the resolutions of the Church in generall G And excluded the Layty as a prophane crew and to be taught their distance What honest man ever thought the Layty as Layty prophane I conceive our Kingdome would be very happy if none of the Clergy were worse then some of the Layty And I am sure that the godly Clergy are Gods Layty his {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} the godly Layty are Gods Clergy his {non-Roman} {non-Roman}