renounce_v all_o the_o particular_a error_n of_o the_o present_a romish_a church_n at_o this_o day_n for_o such_o protestant_n can_v not_o be_v much_o before_o luther_n the_o particular_a disease_n must_v in_o nature_n be_v presuppose_v before_o a_o particular_a remedy_n can_v be_v apply_v unto_o they_o reformation_n necessary_o presuppose_v a_o disorder_n and_o deformation_n neither_o do_v we_o restrain_v the_o name_n protestant_n to_o such_o only_a as_o in_o particular_a set_v themselves_o direct_o and_o profess_o against_o some_o special_a error_n of_o popery_n as_o of_o transubstantiation_n purgatory_n indulgence_n etc._n etc._n for_o such_o profess_a oppose_v can_v not_o be_v imagine_v before_o such_o error_n be_v in_o be_v but_o as_o the_o father_n before_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a do_v not_o in_o word_n define_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o that_o the_o son_n be_v of_o the_o same_o substance_n with_o the_o father_n and_o not_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d only_o that_o be_v of_o a_o like_a substance_n nor_o profess_o write_v against_o the_o heresy_n of_o arius_n by_o name_n homoousiani_fw-la yet_o be_v they_o right_o esteem_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d indeed_o or_o maintainer_n of_o the_o right_a belief_n touch_v the_o consubstantiality_n of_o the_o son_n to_o the_o father_n because_o out_o of_o their_o sentence_n and_o write_n this_o truth_n may_v be_v deduce_v howsoever_o it_o be_v not_o formal_o express_v in_o the_o term_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d so_o all_o those_o be_v to_o be_v esteem_v protestant_n who_o hold_v nothing_o against_o the_o protestant_n faith_n deliver_v some_o doctrine_n and_o position_n from_o which_o some_o error_n of_o popery_n or_o other_o may_v be_v clear_o refute_v whether_o such_o error_n be_v then_o maintain_v by_o any_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n or_o no._n of_o the_o term_n visible_a a_o church_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v visible_a two_o manner_n of_o way_n either_o visible_a to_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o that_o eminent_o and_o in_o some_o sort_n pompous_o as_o the_o roman_a empire_n &_o kingdom_n of_o naples_n or_o respublica_fw-la venetorum_fw-la 12._o in_o which_o sense_n the_o papist_n affirm_v that_o the_o true_a church_n ought_v always_o to_o be_v visible_a but_o we_o deny_v it_o or_o visible_a to_o all_o the_o member_n of_o that_o church_n either_o such_o as_o god_n have_v already_o call_v or_o such_o as_o he_o will_v call_v in_o time_n who_o by_o search_v and_o due_a inquiry_n may_v and_o shall_v find_v out_o the_o true_a church_n their_o mother_n in_o this_o question_n we_o undertake_v not_o to_o prove_v a_o protestant_a church_n visible_a in_o all_o age_n in_o the_o first_o acception_n but_o in_o the_o late_a only_o we_o maintain_v a_o visible_a but_o not_o a_o conspicuous_a eminent_a and_o glorious_a face_n of_o a_o church_n in_o all_o age_n consist_v of_o a_o apparent_a hierarchy_n as_o the_o papist_n teach_v i_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o add_v more_o distinction_n for_o the_o explication_n of_o this_o first_o question_n i_o come_v therefore_o brief_o to_o the_o particular_a assertion_n serve_v for_o the_o confirmation_n and_o illustration_n of_o the_o general_a and_o main_n conclusion_n touch_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n the_o first_o assertion_n the_o church_n in_o the_o most_o strict_a and_o proper_a acception_n thereof_o be_v the_o whole_a company_n of_o god_n elect_v thus_o s._n paul_n in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o hebrew_n describe_v she_o the_o 23._o general_a assembly_n and_o church_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v which_o be_v write_v in_o heaven_n and_o saint_n gregory_n upon_o ezechiel_n there_o be_v one_o church_n of_o the_o elect_a both_o go_v before_o and_o follow_v after_o and_o again_o upon_o the_o canticle_n christ_n according_a to_o the_o grace_n of_o his_o foreknowledge_n have_v build_v a_o holy_a church_n of_o saint_n which_o shall_v eternal_o persevere_v in_o grace_n and_o saint_n bernard_n ezek._n this_o be_v the_o church_n of_o the_o elect._n sequentium_fw-la of_o this_o church_n exstruxit_fw-la saint_n austen_n electorum_fw-la speak_v most_o express_o he_o shall_v never_o be_v withdraw_v from_o that_o church_n 8._o which_o be_v predestinate_v and_o choose_v before_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o world_n mundi_fw-la yet_o poor_a john_n hus_n as_o moderator_n h._n c._n a_o zealous_a papist_n right_o observe_v be_v burn_v by_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n for_o say_v no_o more_o in_o this_o point_n than_o saint_n paul_n and_o saint_n gregory_n say_v before_o he_o viz._n 3._o catholica_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la est_fw-la omnium_fw-la praedestinatorum_fw-la duntaxat_fw-la the_o catholic_a church_n consist_v of_o all_o those_o that_o be_v predestinate_a and_o of_o they_o only_o but_o the_o best_a be_v as_o our_o camp_n humphrey_n speak_v pertinent_o combustus_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la confutatus_fw-la hussius_n john_n hus_n be_v indeed_o burn_v but_o he_o be_v never_o confute_v his_o doctrine_n be_v write_v with_o a_o point_n of_o a_o diamond_n never_o to_o be_v raze_v out_o for_o it_o be_v god_n truth_n the_o foundation_n of_o god_n stand_v sure_a have_v this_o seal_n the_o lord_n know_v they_o that_o be_v he_o and_o so_o i_o fall_v into_o my_o second_o assertion_n the_o second_o assertion_n the_o church_n in_o this_o acception_n as_o it_o consist_v of_o the_o elect_a only_o be_v know_v to_o god_n only_o and_o consequent_o be_v invisible_a this_o the_o apostle_n 29._o teach_v the_o lord_n know_v they_o that_o be_v he_o and_o the_o spirit_n intimate_v as_o much_o in_o these_o word_n 17._o i_o will_v give_v he_o a_o white_a stone_n and_o in_o it_o a_o new_a name_n write_v which_o no_o man_n know_v save_v he_o that_o receive_v it_o for_o what_o man_n 11._o know_v the_o thing_n of_o a_o man_n save_o the_o spirit_n of_o man_n which_o be_v in_o he_o the_o 10._o heart_n of_o man_n be_v deceitful_a above_o all_o thing_n who_o can_v know_v it_o i_o the_o lord_n search_v the_o heart_n i_o try_v the_o reins_n this_o sovereign_a privilege_n of_o almighty_a god_n to_o sound_v the_o bottom_n of_o man_n heart_n the_o faithful_a acknowledge_v in_o their_o devout_a prayer_n as_o solomon_n 39_o thou_o even_o thou_o only_o know_v the_o heart_n of_o all_o the_o child_n of_o man_n and_o jeremie_n 12._o thou_o that_o try_v the_o righteous_a and_o see_v the_o reins_n and_o the_o heart_n and_o the_o eleven_o apostle_n 24._o thou_o lord_n which_o know_v the_o heart_n of_o all_o man_n now_o if_o god_n only_o know_v the_o heart_n he_o only_o know_v who_o believe_v in_o he_o and_o love_v he_o in_o sincerity_n of_o heart_n therefore_o let_v none_o say_v saint_n 3._o cyprian_n etc._n arrogate_v that_o which_o the_o father_n have_v give_v to_o the_o son_n only_o to_o weet_v in_o the_o floor_n of_o the_o church_n to_o take_v the_o fan_n and_o sever_v the_o chaff_n from_o the_o wheat_n the_o elect_n be_v the_o first_o bear_v who_o name_n be_v write_v in_o heaven_n heb._n 12._o 23._o now_o what_o earthly_a man_n will_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o read_v that_o which_o be_v write_v in_o heaven_n saint_n aeternam_fw-la prosper_n forbear_v it_o define_v that_o god_n be_v he_o who_o define_v the_o certain_a number_n of_o those_o who_o be_v predestinate_v to_o eternal_a life_n whence_o we_o may_v right_o conclude_v that_o the_o pope_n in_o canonise_a saint_n and_o enter_v they_o into_o the_o heavenly_a jerusalem_n incur_v into_o a_o praâ—unire_n by_o encroach_a on_o the_o prerogative_n of_o almighty_a god_n who_o reserve_v to_o himself_o alone_o the_o discern_a of_o vessel_n of_o honour_n from_o vessel_n of_o dishonour_n that_o be_v the_o elect_a from_o the_o reprobate_n but_o our_o adversary_n object_n if_o we_o restrain_v the_o church_n to_o the_o elect_a and_o pronounce_v they_o invisible_a we_o make_v a_o 3._o platonical_a idea_n or_o a_o aerâ—all_a body_n or_o mathematical_a abstract_n of_o the_o church_n hereunto_o we_o answer_v first_o out_o of_o saint_n citat_fw-la prosper_n certum_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la esse_fw-la numerum_fw-la electorum_fw-la tam_fw-la impium_fw-la est_fw-la negare_fw-la quà am_fw-la ipsi_fw-la gratiae_fw-la contraire_fw-fr it_o be_v as_o impious_a to_o deny_v that_o the_o number_n of_o the_o elect_a be_v certain_a with_o god_n as_o to_o deny_v grace_n itself_o and_o will_v any_o dare_v to_o call_v that_o a_o fancy_n or_o a_o imaginary_a idea_n which_o be_v most_o certain_a in_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god_n second_o we_o teach_v not_o that_o the_o church_n in_o this_o notion_n be_v a_o idea_n extra_fw-la rem_fw-la or_o singularia_fw-la or_o a_o body_n hover_v in_o the_o air_n or_o float_v in_o the_o fancy_n we_o teach_v that_o it_o true_o subsist_v partly_o in_o heaven_n in_o the_o triumphant_a and_o partly_o on_o earth_n in_o the_o militant_a part_n thereof_o this_o militant_a part_n though_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o whole_a number_n &_o inward_a
tell_v he_o there_o be_v no_o hope_n of_o salvation_n without_o the_o church_n there_o be_v no_o catholic_a church_n but_o they_o and_o to_o believe_v the_o catholic_a church_n be_v the_o article_n of_o his_o creed_n and_o by_o it_o there_o can_v no_o other_o church_n be_v mean_v but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n because_o it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v by_o all_o the_o protestant_n in_o the_o kingdom_n that_o they_o have_v any_o church_n before_o luther_n this_o gentleman_n be_v much_o trouble_v in_o his_o mind_n with_o these_o and_o the_o like_a suggestion_n who_o all_o his_o life_n time_n have_v be_v and_o profess_v himself_o a_o religious_a protestant_n become_v now_o more_o sick_a in_o mind_n then_o body_n and_o if_o by_o god_n merciful_a goodness_n he_o have_v not_o recover_v of_o this_o sickness_n it_o be_v to_o be_v fear_v he_o have_v fall_v both_o from_o his_o mother_n church_n and_o his_o former_a faith_n as_o some_o of_o the_o near_a of_o his_o own_o blood_n to_o his_o great_a grief_n have_v late_o be_v seduce_v by_o like_a enticement_n after_o his_o recovery_n be_v still_o much_o trouble_v in_o mind_n with_o these_o former_a suggestion_n of_o the_o popish_a priest_n he_o repair_v to_o sir_n humphrey_n lind_n knight_n who_o by_o reason_n of_o his_o alliance_n and_o long_a acquaintance_n with_o he_o give_v the_o best_a satisfaction_n he_o can_v to_o his_o say_a cousin_n master_n bug_n who_o seem_v to_o take_v content_a in_o such_o his_o conference_n and_o to_o be_v well_o satisfy_v by_o he_o in_o all_o point_n but_o the_o popish_a priest_n and_o jesuites_n not_o desi_n to_o creepe-in_a further_n where_o they_o have_v once_o make_v a_o breach_n persevere_v still_o in_o question_v he_o where_o his_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n whereupon_o he_o repair_v again_o to_o sir_n humphrey_n lind_n and_o require_v some_o further_a satisfaction_n of_o he_o concern_v that_o demand_n and_o thereupon_o sir_n humphrey_n lind_n tell_v he_o it_o be_v first_o in_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n consequent_o also_o conspicuous_a in_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o 600_o year_n after_o christ_n after_o which_o time_n some_o error_n creep_v into_o the_o church_n as_o disease_n into_o a_o man_n body_n so_o that_o the_o church_n which_o luther_n and_o we_o acknowledge_v be_v in_o general_a the_o same_o christian_a church_n as_o his_o body_n be_v the_o same_o substantial_a body_n be_v now_o well_o and_o late_o sick_a though_o different_a in_o the_o quality_n and_o for_o the_o better_a strengthen_v of_o his_o mind_n the_o say_a sir_n humphrey_n lind_n invite_v he_o to_o his_o house_n in_o the_o country_n thereby_o the_o better_a to_o prevent_v the_o daily_a solicitation_n of_o those_o dangerous_a seducer_n and_o after_o his_o return_n to_o london_n the_o say_a sir_n humphrey_n lind_n go_v to_o master_n bug_n his_o house_n in_o drury-lane_n to_o visit_v he_o find_v master_n fisher_n the_o jesuite_n there_o where_o after_o some_o debate_n about_o religion_n and_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n m._n fisher_n call_v for_o pen_n &_o ink_n and_o set_v down_o this_o question_n in_o terminis_fw-la thereto_o add_v under_o his_o hand_n that_o he_o will_v answer_v upon_o it_o negative_o as_o challenge_v and_o expect_v opposer_n deliver_v also_o the_o paper_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o say_a sir_n humphrey_n lind_n who_o upon_o view_n of_o it_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v a_o historical_a question_n and_o not_o so_o proper_a for_o disputation_n but_o master_n fisher_n urge_v it_o sir_n humphrey_n tell_v he_o if_o he_o will_v go_v to_o doctor_n whites_n where_o former_o he_o have_v be_v the_o say_a doctor_n will_v easy_o resolve_v those_o doubt_n which_o be_v refuse_v by_o the_o jesuite_n the_o say_a sir_n humphrey_n do_v then_o return_v he_o his_o paper_n again_o and_o so_o leave_v he_o about_o two_o day_n after_o master_n bug_n repair_v to_o sir_n humphrey_n lind_n and_o entreat_v he_o for_o his_o satisfaction_n to_o give_v master_n fisher_n a_o meeting_n say_v that_o master_n fisher_n have_v again_o tell_v he_o that_o he_o will_v maintain_v what_o he_o have_v set_v down_o and_o that_o our_o divine_n can_v not_o prove_v our_o church_n visible_a before_o luther_n time_n whereupon_o sir_n humphrey_n tell_v he_o that_o d._n white_a and_o doctor_n feat_o be_v to_o dine_v with_o he_o upon_o friday_n follow_v and_o if_o after_o dinner_n master_n fisher_n will_v come_v thither_o with_o four_o or_o six_o at_o the_o most_o they_o shall_v be_v admit_v for_o his_o sake_n and_o his_o wife_n who_o by_o reason_n of_o such_o solicitation_n be_v trouble_v in_o their_o mind_n and_o satisfaction_n shall_v be_v give_v as_o occasion_v require_v and_o these_o be_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o the_o meeting_n as_o be_v before_o declare_v upon_o which_o friday_n be_v the_o twenty_o seven_o of_o june_n 1623._o master_n fisher_n master_n sweet_a jesuit_n and_o some_o other_o with_o they_o come_v to_o sir_n humphrey_n lyndes_n house_n into_o a_o little_a dining-room_n where_o they_o find_v the_o aforesaid_a master_n bug_n his_o wife_n and_o child_n and_o other_o of_o sir_n humfreys_n friend_n that_o have_v then_o dine_v with_o he_o together_o with_o some_o other_o also_o who_o come_v in_o as_o the_o say_a sir_n humphrey_n do_v not_o expect_v so_o he_o can_v not_o with_o civility_n put_v they_o forth_o his_o house_n but_o do_v instant_o cause_v his_o door_n to_o be_v lock_v up_o that_o no_o more_o may_v enter_v in_o notwithstanding_o which_o his_o command_n some_o other_o also_o come_v in_o scatter_o after_o the_o conference_n begin_v at_o the_o same_o time_n and_o place_n doctor_z white_a and_o doctor_n feat_o be_v invite_v to_o dinner_n by_o sir_n humphrey_n lind_n and_o stay_v a_o while_n after_o have_v notice_n give_v they_o that_o master_n fisher_n and_o master_n sweet_a jesuit_n be_v in_o the_o next_o room_n ready_a to_o confer_v with_o they_o touch_v a_o question_n set_v down_o by_o master_n fisher_n under_o his_o own_o hand_n in_o these_o word_n viz._n whether_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a and_o especial_o in_o the_o age_n go_v before_o luther_n and_o whether_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n can_v be_v show_v and_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n this_o question_n be_v deliver_v to_o the_o party_n abovenamed_n and_o it_o be_v notify_v unto_o they_o that_o there_o be_v certain_a person_n who_o have_v be_v solicit_v and_o remain_v doubtful_a in_o religion_n desire_v satisfaction_n especial_o in_o this_o point_n the_o say_v doctor_n be_v persuade_v to_o have_v some_o speech_n with_o the_o jesuit_n touch_v this_o point_n the_o rather_o because_o the_o priest_n and_o jesuit_n do_v daily_o cast_v out_o paper_n and_o disperse_v they_o in_o secret_a in_o which_o they_o vaunt_v that_o no_o protestant_a minister_n dare_v encounter_v they_o in_o this_o point_n a_o relation_n of_o what_o pass_v in_o a_o conference_n touch_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n june_n xxvii_o 1623._o at_o the_o beginning_n of_o this_o meeting_n when_o the_o disputant_n be_v set_v d._n feat_o draw_v out_o the_o paper_n in_o which_o the_o question_n above_o rehearse_v be_v write_v with_o these_o word_n in_o the_o margin_n viz._n i_o will_v answer_v that_o it_o be_v not_o demand_v of_o m._n fisher_n whether_o this_o be_v his_o own_o hand_n which_o after_o he_o have_v acknowledge_v d._n feat_o begin_v as_o follow_v d._n feat_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o this_o universal_a demand_n require_v rather_o a_o historical_a large_a volume_n than_o a_o syllogistical_a brief_a dispute_n we_o answer_v that_o 1._o although_o divine_a infallible_a faith_n be_v not_o build_v upon_o deduction_n out_o of_o humane_a history_n but_o upon_o divine_a revelation_n as_o be_v confess_v by_o your_o own_o schoolman_n and_o express_o by_o cardinal_n bellarmine_n historiae_fw-la humanae_fw-la faciunt_fw-la tantùm_fw-la fidem_fw-la humanam_fw-la cui_fw-la subesse_fw-la potest_fw-la falsum_fw-la humane_a history_n and_o record_n beget_v only_o a_o humane_a faith_n or_o rather_o credulity_n subject_n to_o error_n not_o a_o divine_a and_o infallible_a belief_n which_o must_v be_v build_v upon_o sure_a ground_n 2._o although_o this_o question_n be_v ground_v upon_o uncertain_a and_o false_a supposal_n for_o a_o church_n may_v have_v be_v visible_a yet_o not_o the_o name_n of_o all_o visible_a professor_n thereof_o now_o to_o be_v show_v and_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n there_o may_v be_v million_o of_o professor_n yet_o no_o particular_a and_o authentical_a record_n of_o they_o by_o name_n record_n there_o may_v be_v many_o in_o ancient_a time_n yet_o not_o now_o extant_a at_o least_o for_o we_o to_o come_v by_o yet_o we_o will_v not_o refuse_v to_o deal_v with_o you_o in_o our_o own_o question_n if_o you_o in_o like_a manner_n will_v
undertake_v the_o like_a task_n in_o your_o own_o defence_n and_o maintain_v the_o affirmative_a in_o the_o like_a question_n which_o we_o now_o propound_v unto_o you_o here_o in_o writing_n whether_o the_o romish_a church_n that_o be_v a_o church_n hold_v the_o particular_a entire_a doctrine_n of_o the_o now_o romanist_n as_o it_o be_v comprise_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a especial_o in_o the_o first_o 600_o year_n and_o whether_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a or_o legible_a romanist_n in_o all_o age_n can_v be_v show_v and_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n here_o d._n feat_o read_v this_o question_n through_o a_o mistake_n in_o stead_n of_o out_o of_o good_a author_n read_v out_o of_o god_n word_n whereunto_o m._n fisher_n reply_v no_o i_o will_v prove_v it_o out_o of_o good_a author_n then_o say_v one_o that_o sit_v at_o the_o table_n alesbury_n by_o no_o mean_n can_v m._n fisher_n endure_v to_o demonstrate_v his_o church_n out_o of_o god_n word_n d._n feat_o god_n be_v a_o good_a author_n m._n fisher_n but_o it_o be_v true_a i_o do_v mistake_v what_o say_v you_o to_o the_o condition_n will_v you_o undertake_v to_o name_v visible_a papist_n in_o all_o age_n out_o of_o good_a author_n m._n fisher._n i_o will_v so_o you_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o your_o church_n here_o a_o order_n be_v set_v down_o that_o d._n feat_o shall_v for_o a_o hour_n and_o a_o half_a oppose_v m._n fisher_n in_o this_o question_n and_o afterward_o m._n fisher_n for_o the_o last_o hour_n and_o half_o shall_v oppose_v d._n white_a in_o the_o other_o question_n for_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n m._n sweet_a before_o you_o proceed_v to_o dispute_v i_o desire_v these_o condition_n may_v be_v assent_v unto_o on_o both_o side_n 1._o that_o all_o bitter_a speech_n be_v forbear_v 2._o that_o none_o speak_v but_o disputant_n which_o condition_n be_v well_o approve_v by_o the_o whole_a company_n d._n feat_o i_o desire_v a_o three_o to_o be_v add_v thereunto_o viz._n that_o both_o the_o opponent_n and_o respondent_fw-la be_v tie_v to_o logic_n form_n m._n fisher._n i_o hold_v not_o that_o condition_n fit_a because_o the_o company_n understand_v not_o logic_n form_n d._n feat_o there_o be_v of_o the_o company_n that_o understand_v logic_n as_o well_o as_o you_o or_o i_o and_o the_o rest_n be_v man_n of_o understanding_n and_o reason_n therefore_o i_o be_o resolve_v to_o keep_v logic_n form_n and_o expect_v from_o you_o direct_v answer_n m._n fisher._n you_o yourself_o confess_v that_o this_o question_n be_v not_o to_o be_v handle_v syllogistical_o d._n feat_o i_o say_v indeed_o that_o it_o require_v rather_o a_o large_a historical_a volume_n than_o a_o brief_a syllogistical_a dispute_n the_o more_o you_o too_o blame_v to_o propound_v such_o a_o question_n and_o my_o task_n the_o hard_a yet_o be_v propound_v as_o a_o question_n i_o will_v keep_v myself_o to_o logic_n form_n but_o before_o i_o propound_v my_o argument_n i_o crave_v leave_n in_o few_o word_n to_o lay_v open_a the_o vanity_n of_o the_o usual_a discourse_n wherewith_o you_o draw_v and_o delude_v many_o of_o the_o ignorant_a and_o unlearned_a you_o bear_v they_o in_o hand_n that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o world_n as_o a_o protestant_n before_o luther_n and_o that_o all_o the_o world_n before_o his_o time_n believe_v as_o you_o do_v that_o your_o church_n have_v not_o be_v only_o visible_a in_o all_o age_n and_o all_o time_n but_o eminent_o conspicuous_a and_o illustrious_a which_o be_v such_o a_o notorious_a untruth_n that_o i_o here_o offer_v before_o all_o this_o company_n to_o yield_v you_o the_o better_a and_o acknowledge_v myself_o overcome_v if_o you_o can_v produce_v out_o of_o good_a author_n i_o will_v not_o say_v any_o empire_n or_o kingdom_n but_o any_o city_n parish_n or_o hamlet_n within_o 500_o year_n next_o after_o christ_n in_o which_o there_o be_v any_o visible_a assembly_n of_o christian_n to_o be_v name_v maintain_v and_o defend_v either_o your_o trent_n creed_n in_o general_a or_o these_o point_n of_o popery_n in_o special_a to_o wit_n 1._o that_o there_o be_v a_o treasury_n of_o saint_n merit_n and_o superaboundant_a satisfaction_n at_o the_o pope_n dispose_n 2._o that_o the_o laity_n be_v not_o command_v by_o christ_n institution_n to_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o both_o kind_n 3._o that_o the_o public_a service_n of_o god_n in_o the_o church_n aught_o or_o may_v be_v celebrate_v in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n 4._o that_o private_a mass_n wherein_o the_o priest_n say_v edite_fw-la et_fw-la bibite_fw-la ex_fw-la hoc_fw-la omnes_fw-la eat_v and_o drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o and_o yet_o eat_v and_o drink_v himself_o only_o be_v according_a to_o christ_n institution_n 5._o that_o the_o pope_n pardon_n be_v requisite_a or_o useful_a to_o release_v soul_n out_o of_o purgatory_n 6._o that_o the_o effect_n of_o the_o sacrament_n depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n m._n sweet_a these_o be_v scholastical_a point_n not_o fundamental_a d._n white_a those_o thing_n which_o be_v define_v in_o your_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v to_o you_o matter_n fundamental_a whatsoever_o article_n deny_v make_v a_o man_n a_o heretic_n be_v fundamental_a but_o the_o denial_n of_o any_o of_o these_o make_v a_o man_n a_o heretic_n therefore_o to_o you_o every_o one_o of_o these_o article_n be_v fundamental_a to_o which_o argument_n nothing_o be_v answer_v d._n feat_o proceed_v 7._o that_o extreme_a unction_n be_v a_o sacrament_n proper_o so_o call_v 8._o that_o we_o may_v worship_n god_n by_o a_o image_n 9_o that_o the_o sacred_a host_n ought_v to_o be_v elevate_v or_o carry_v in_o solemn_a procession_n 10._o that_o infidel_n and_o impious_a person_n yea_o rat_n and_o mouse_n may_v eat_v the_o body_n of_o christ._n 11._o that_o all_o ecclesiastical_a power_n depend_v of_o the_o pope_n 12._o that_o he_o can_v err_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n 13._o that_o he_o have_v power_n to_o canonize_v saint_n 14._o to_o institute_v religious_a order_n 15._o to_o depose_v king_n etc._n etc._n which_o latter_a point_n and_o the_o like_a i_o leave_v to_o d._n white_a to_o maintain_v against_o you_o when_o according_a to_o your_o promise_n you_o do_v undertake_v to_o name_v visible_a and_o legible_a romanist_n in_o all_o age_n m._n fisher._n after_o you_o have_v prove_v your_o church_n visible_a in_o all_o age_n and_o name_v the_o professor_n thereof_o i_o will_v satisfy_v you_o in_o your_o particular_n d._n feat_o in_o the_o meanwhile_o name_v but_o one_o father_n but_o one_o writer_n of_o note_n who_o hold_v the_o particular_n abovenamed_n for_o 500_o year_n after_o christ._n to_o which_o instant_a demand_n of_o d._n feat_o nothing_o be_v answer_v sr._n humphrey_n lind_n m._n sweet_a prove_v i_o but_o this_o one_o point_n out_o of_o saint_n augustine_n namely_o transubstantiation_n or_o satisfy_v such_o argument_n as_o i_o shall_v bring_v you_o out_o of_o saint_n augustine_n to_o the_o contrary_a and_o i_o will_v promise_v you_o to_o go_v to_o mass_n to_o which_o m._n sweet_a make_v no_o other_o answer_n then_o this_o that_o be_v not_o now_o to_o the_o question_n m._n fisher._n i_o expect_v your_o argument_n doctor_n feat_o d._n feat_o there_o be_v two_o mean_n only_o to_o prove_v any_o thing_n by_o necessary_a inference_n to_o wit_n a_o syllogism_n and_o a_o induction_n other_o form_n of_o argument_n have_v no_o force_n but_o as_o they_o be_v reducible_a to_o these_o i_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o our_o church_n by_o both_o and_o first_o by_o a_o syllogism_n that_o church_n who_o faith_n be_v eternal_a and_o perpetual_a be_v ever_o visible_a in_o the_o professor_n thereof_o but_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v eternal_a and_o perpetual_a therefore_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v ever_o visible_a in_o the_o professor_n thereof_o m._n fisher._n you_o conclude_v not_o the_o question_n d._n feat_o there_o be_v two_o quaeres_fw-la in_o your_o question_n first_o whether_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a and_o second_o whether_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n can_v be_v show_v i_o have_v conclude_v in_o my_o syllogism_n the_o first_o quaere_fw-la m._n fisher._n there_o be_v not_o two_o quaeres_fw-la or_o part_n in_o the_o question_n it_o be_v but_o one_o question_n d._n white_a where_o there_o be_v two_o proposition_n with_o two_o distinct_a utrum_n there_o be_v two_o question_n but_o here_o be_v two_o proposition_n with_o two_o distinct_a utrum_n to_o wit_n whether_o the_o protestant_a church_n etc._n etc._n and_o whether_o the_o name_n etc._n etc._n therefore_o there_o be_v two_o quaeres_fw-la or_o part_n in_o the_o question_n m._n fisher._n conclude_v any_o thing_n
suggestion_n be_v then_o so_o i_o fear_v all_o future_a meeting_n in_o this_o kind_n will_v be_v stop_v by_o the_o same_o engine_n the_o informer_n whether_o they_o be_v popish_o or_o indifferent_o affect_v in_o point_n of_o religion_n i_o know_v not_o sure_o i_o be_o they_o do_v the_o devil_n a_o great_a deal_n of_o wrong_n by_o encroach_a upon_o his_o office_n which_o be_v to_o be_v brethren_n accusator_fw-la fratrum_fw-la as_o for_o my_o own_o part_n it_o grieve_v not_o mâ—_n to_o receive_v a_o wound_n from_o they_o who_o in_o due_a respect_n to_o religion_n and_o call_v shall_v have_v rather_o apply_v a_o salve_n but_o i_o may_v true_o say_v in_o the_o word_n of_o aria_n to_o her_o dear_a partus_fw-la epigr._fw-la vulnus_fw-la quod_fw-la cepi_fw-la non_fw-la dolet_fw-la in_fw-la quam_fw-la sed_fw-la quòd_fw-la tu_fw-la caperes_fw-la hoc_fw-la mihi_fw-la line_v dolet_fw-la it_o grieve_v i_o that_o you_o shall_v suffer_v any_o thing_n for_o your_o religious_a and_o pious_a intention_n to_o regain_v your_o kinsman_n to_o our_o church_n and_o establish_v your_o friend_n in_o the_o truth_n yet_o let_v not_o this_o discourage_v you_o in_o your_o holy_a purpose_n for_o the_o good_a of_o god_n church_n macte_fw-la virtute_fw-la as_o you_o have_v raise_v bertram_n so_o raise_v other_o witness_n of_o the_o truth_n from_o the_o dust_n and_o heal_v those_o author_n who_o have_v lose_v piece_n of_o their_o tongue_n which_o the_o indices_fw-la expurgatorij_fw-la have_v cut_v off_o for_o be_v too_o long-tongued_a against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o though_o peradventure_o you_o receive_v no_o better_a reward_n at_o least_o by_o some_o than_o affront_v for_o acknowledgement_n and_o rebuke_n for_o thanks_o yet_o doubt_v not_o one_o day_n for_o a_o full_a recompense_n of_o your_o pain_n and_o charge_n trust_v he_o for_o your_o aurâ—ola_n who_o you_o trust_v for_o your_o crown_n take_v his_o word_n for_o the_o interest_n upon_o who_o we_o all_o rely_v for_o the_o principal_a who_o as_o he_o fearful_o threaten_v that_o he_o will_v be_v ashamed_a of_o they_o who_o deny_v 33_o he_o before_o man_n so_o he_o gracious_o promise_v to_o all_o those_o who_o 8_o confess_v he_o before_o man_n that_o he_o will_v confess_v they_o before_o his_o father_n in_o heaven_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d daniel_n feat_o touch_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n the_o question_n propound_v by_o the_o jesuite_n be_v 1_o whither_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a 2_o whether_o visible_a protestant_n be_v to_o be_v name_v in_o all_o age_n &_o c_o to_o the_o first_o question_n i_o answer_v this_o question_n as_o all_o other_o will_v be_v best_a explicate_v by_o distinction_n of_o the_o term_n conclusion_n or_o assertion_n upon_o the_o distinction_n the_o term_n to_o be_v distinguish_v of_o be_v three_o the_o subject_n a_o church_n the_o denomination_n protestant_n the_o attribute_n visible_a of_o the_o term_n church_n the_o first_o distinction_n the_o church_n may_v be_v consider_v either_o in_o respect_n of_o election_n &_o inward_a sanctification_n or_o in_o respect_n of_o outward_a vocation_n and_o profession_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o this_o question_n we_o consider_v the_o church_n in_o the_o latter_a respect_n in_o which_o alone_o it_o be_v visible_a for_o although_o the_o elect_v as_o they_o be_v man_n and_o profess_v the_o true_a faith_n be_v visible_a yet_o man_n profess_v the_o true_a faith_n as_o they_o be_v elect_v and_o inward_o sanctify_v and_o regenerate_v in_o their_o mind_n be_v not_o visible_a the_o second_o distinction_n a_o church_n profess_v the_o christian_a faith_n may_v be_v take_v either_o more_o large_o for_o a_o company_n of_o professor_n of_o the_o true_a faith_n whether_o they_o be_v unite_v under_o one_o government_n in_o one_o country_n kingdom_n or_o empire_n or_o scatter_v through_o the_o whole_a world_n or_o more_o strict_o for_o a_o company_n of_o professor_n of_o the_o true_a faith_n have_v actual_a communion_n one_o with_o the_o other_o unite_v under_o one_o government_n within_o certain_a limit_n seclude_v and_o sever_v from_o other_o society_n and_o congregation_n as_o for_o example_n the_o reform_a church_n in_o france_n at_o this_o day_n be_v unite_v within_o itself_o and_o sever_v from_o the_o popish_a church_n and_o the_o member_n thereof_o among_o who_o yet_o they_o live_v and_o civil_o converse_v in_o this_o question_n we_o tie_v not_o ourselves_o to_o prove_v a_o protestant_a church_n in_o all_o age_n in_o the_o latter_a sense_n it_o suffice_v that_o we_o show_v it_o in_o the_o former_a and_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v always_o those_o who_o maintain_v the_o doctrine_n which_o we_o now_o teach_v whether_o they_o be_v unite_v or_o sever_v have_v actual_a communion_n one_o with_o another_o or_o not_o keep_v public_a assembly_n by_o themselves_o apart_o from_o the_o roman_a and_o other_o church_n or_o not_o for_o as_o saint_n austen_n show_v non_fw-la against_o the_o donatist_n the_o same_o spirit_n of_o god_n be_v give_v to_o all_o saint_n who_o be_v knit_v one_o to_o another_o in_o charity_n whether_o they_o know_v one_o another_o corporal_o or_o not_o of_o the_o denomination_n protestant_n distinction_n the_o first_o protestant_n may_v be_v consider_v either_o according_a to_o their_o name_n take_v from_o at_o legal_a act_n of_o protest_v either_o against_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n or_o against_o the_o retinere_fw-la error_n and_o abuse_n of_o popery_n when_o they_o grow_v to_o their_o full_a measure_n &_o be_v most_o unsufferable_a about_o the_o time_n that_o luther_n begin_v to_o oppose_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o a_o little_a after_o or_o from_o the_o protestation_n of_o the_o bohemian_n in_o the_o year_n of_o our_o lord_n 1421._o set_v down_o by_o 5._o coclaeus_n in_o his_o l._n 5._o histor_n of_o the_o hussit_n or_o according_a to_o their_o faith_n and_o doctrine_n positive_o comprise_v in_o &_o confine_v to_o scripture_n and_o opposite_o as_o it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o all_o error_n in_o faith_n and_o manner_n against_o the_o holy_a scripture_n especial_o against_o the_o present_a error_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o this_o question_n we_o consider_v protestant_n in_o the_o late_a sense_n not_o in_o the_o former_a the_o name_n we_o confess_v of_o protestant_n be_v not_o very_o ancient_a as_o neither_o be_v the_o name_n of_o papist_n much_o less_o of_o jesuit_n but_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o protestant_n we_o maintain_v to_o be_v as_o ancient_a as_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n philad_n and_o we_o may_v true_o say_v with_o ignatius_n the_o martyr_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d jesus_n christ_n be_v my_o antiquity_n as_o the_o same_o piece_n of_o gold_n successive_o pass_v through_o diverse_a stamp_n and_o inscription_n so_o the_o selfsame_a faith_n of_o protestant_n in_o substance_n have_v pass_v through_o all_o age_n yet_o with_o diverse_a name_n as_o of_o becherit_v berengarian_n petrobrusian_o henrician_n albingenses_n waldenses_n dulcinist_n lolard_n luiddamite_n wicklevist_n hussite_n thaborit_n lutheran_n hugonot_n gospeler_n and_o reformer_n the_o faithful_a as_o we_o read_v in_o the_o act_n 26._o be_v first_o call_v christian_n at_o antioch_n yet_o be_v they_o indeed_o christian_n even_o from_o adam_n after_o the_o promise_n be_v give_v that_o the_o head_n seed_n of_o the_o woman_n shall_v break_v the_o serpent_n head_n so_o that_o although_o we_o shall_v grant_v to_o ang._n bellarmine_n that_o the_o name_n of_o protestant_n be_v not_o hear_v of_o for_o 1500._o year_n after_o christ_n yet_o will_v it_o not_o hence_o follow_v but_o that_o the_o protestant_n faith_n may_v be_v as_o ancient_a as_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n yea_o in_o a_o true_a sense_n as_o adam_n himself_o since_o the_o protestant_a faith_n be_v no_o other_o than_o the_o pure_a primitive_a christian_a faith_n distinction_n the_o second_o protestant_n in_o faith_n and_o doctrine_n be_v of_o two_o sort_n either_o implicitly_a and_o virtual_o and_o such_o be_v all_o those_o who_o hold_v the_o scripture_n for_o the_o sole_a and_o entire_a rule_n of_o faith_n condemn_v consequent_o all_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n against_o or_o beside_o the_o holy_a scripture_n especial_o if_o they_o deliver_v such_o position_n and_o doctrine_n from_o whence_o by_o necessary_a and_o infallible_a consequence_n some_o particular_a error_n or_o other_o of_o the_o romish_a church_n although_o not_o perhaps_o spring_v up_o in_o their_o time_n may_v be_v refell_v or_o explicit_o and_o actual_o and_o such_o be_v they_o who_o direct_o &_o profess_o oppose_a romish_a error_n as_o they_o creep_v in_o or_o not_o long_o after_o especial_o those_o who_o oppose_v the_o whole_a mass_n of_o popish_a error_n and_o superstition_n after_o they_o grow_v to_o a_o ripe_a sore_n fit_a to_o be_v lance_v about_o the_o time_n of_o luther_n in_o this_o question_n we_o restrain_v not_o the_o name_n protestant_n to_o those_o who_o
original_n write_v relation_n there_o be_v no_o such_o figure_n infarce_v the_o printer_n trip_v be_v not_o to_o be_v take_v for_o a_o stumble_v of_o the_o relator_n nay_o it_o be_v rather_o marvel_v that_o he_o trip_v no_o more_o be_v so_o hasty_a to_o 〈◊〉_d without_o his_o errand_n and_o to_o thrust_v out_o a_o relation_n without_o direction_n &_o authority_n of_o the_o like_a stamp_n be_v that_o error_n of_o the_o printer_n page_n 20._o line_n 6._o where_o the_o original_a copy_n go_v thus_o 〈◊〉_d again_o those_o of_o m._n fisher_n be_v side_n call_v for_o 〈◊〉_d where_o be_v your_o name_n d._n white_a say_v this_o be_v nothing_o but_o apparent_a tergiversation_n etc._n etc._n the_o shallow_a printer_n not_o understand_v this_o passage_n invert_v the_o sentence_n thus_o d._n white_a say_v where_o be_v your_o name_n and_o thereby_o whole_o pervert_v the_o sense_n d._n white_n call_v not_o for_o name_n but_o 〈◊〉_d the_o popish_a auditor_n for_o unreasonable_o and_o uncivil_o call_v for_o name_n when_o m._n fisher_n be_v at_o a_o stand_n the_o three_o straw_n you_o stumble_v at_o be_v that_o the_o protestant_a relator_n seem_v to_o say_v that_o the_o priest_n and_o jesuit_n cast_v out_o paper_n etc._n etc._n you_o say_v this_o be_v not_o true_a and_o yet_o you_o yourself_o here_o mention_v three_o such_o paper_n scatter_v by_o you_o and_o i_o have_v receive_v a_o four_o write_v by_o your_o man_n and_o sir_n hamfrey_n lind_n have_v see_v a_o five_o and_o m._n walker_n &_o m._n rogers_n a_o six_o and_o seven_o whereunto_o also_o they_o have_v return_v answer_n the_o one_o in_o print_n the_o other_o in_o write_a hand_n let_v the_o reader_n then_o judge_v whether_o the_o protestant_a relator_n any_o way_n overlash_v in_o charge_v you_o with_o the_o disspreading_a of_o such_o paper_n the_o protestant_a relation_n paragraph_n the_o second_o touch_v the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n to_o be_v dispute_v of_o at_o the_o beginning_n of_o this_o meeting_n when_o the_o disputant_n be_v set_v d._n feat_o draw_v out_o the_o paper_n in_o which_o the_o question_n above-rehearsed_n be_v write_v with_o the_o word_n in_o the_o margin_n viz._n i_o will_v answer_v that_o it_o be_v not_o and_o demand_v of_o m._n fisher_n whether_o this_o be_v his_o own_o hand_n which_o doctor_n featlie_n reply_n you_o talk_v of_o prescribe_v method_n and_o proportion_n to_o be_v observe_v on_o both_o side_n as_o if_o we_o fight_v under_o your_o banner_n or_o be_v to_o receive_v the_o law_n from_o you_o who_o make_v you_o dictator_n and_o m._n sweet_a your_o magister_fw-la equitum_fw-la that_o you_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o enact_v martial_a law_n for_o sacred_a 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o truth_n quarrel_n very_o if_o you_o prescribe_v no_o better_a law_n in_o this_o kind_n than_o those_o that_o be_v set_v down_o in_o the_o conference_n and_o avow_a in_o your_o defence_n viz._n in_o a_o good_a syllogism_n to_o answer_v to_o the_o conclusion_n to_o distinguish_v on_o a_o proposition_n and_o apply_v it_o to_o no_o learn_v to_o prove_v a_o effect_n always_o by_o a_o effect_n because_o aâ—_n effect_n be_v posterius_fw-la etc._n etc._n you_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v a_o lawgiver_n among_o the_o heretic_n alogi_fw-la than_o the_o logician_n inter_fw-la alogos_fw-la then_o logicos_fw-la the_o protestant_a relation_n paragraph_n the_o three_o touch_v the_o condition_n to_o be_v observe_v by_o the_o disputant_n m._n sweet_a before_o you_o proceed_v to_o dispute_v desire_n these_o condition_n may_v be_v assent_v 〈◊〉_d on_o both_o side_n first_o that_o all_o bitter_a speech_n be_v forbear_v second_o that_o none_o speak_v but_o disputant_n master_n fisher_n about_o this_o time_n m._n sweet_a propound_v these_o condition_n to_o be_v observe_v first_o that_o all_o bitter_a speech_n shall_v be_v for_o bear_v second_o that_o nothing_o shall_v be_v speak_v or_o hear_v â—ut_v to_o the_o purpose_n which_o second_o he_o do_v propound_v to_o prevent_v impertinent_a digression_n doctor_z feat_o this_o second_o condition_n be_v not_o propound_v by_o m._n sweet_a at_o the_o conference_n as_o be_v prove_v in_o the_o attestation_n page_n 40._o but_o be_v since_o devise_v by_o m._n fisher_n to_o set_v a_o fair_a gloss_n and_o colour_n on_o his_o and_o m._n sweet_n miserable_a shift_n and_o evasion_n responsum_fw-la nullum_fw-la daunt_v praeter_fw-la unicum_fw-la quod_fw-la semper_fw-la daunt_v nihil_fw-la ad_fw-la propositum_fw-la whatsoever_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o answer_v to_o that_o be_v with_o they_o nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n to_o the_o instance_n in_o fifteen_o novelty_n of_o the_o romish_a faith_n m._n sweet_a answer_v as_o you_o report_v page_n 16._o that_o those_o thing_n be_v then_o impertinent_a and_o nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n to_o sir_n lynde_n motion_n to_o m._n sweet_a to_o dispute_v of_o transubstantiation_n out_o of_o saint_n austen_n m._n sweet_a answer_v that_o be_v not_o now_o to_o the_o question_n to_o my_o proof_n a_o priori_fw-la of_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n m._n sweet_a answer_v page_n 19_o that_o be_v not_o to_o the_o question_n you_o ought_v to_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o your_o church_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la that_o be_v to_o the_o question_n to_o give_v some_o relish_n and_o taste_v to_o these_o unsavoury_a answer_n of_o m._n sweet_n you_o feign_v a_o proviso_n of_o he_o which_o indeed_o be_v a_o procudo_fw-la of_o your_o own_o that_o m._n sweet_a answer_v this_o according_a to_o law_n for_o there_o be_v a_o law_n forsooth_o make_v that_o nothing_o shall_v be_v speak_v or_o hear_v but_o to_o the_o purpose_n how_o those_o thing_n above-al-leadged_n be_v to_o the_o purpose_n and_o touch_v the_o very_a apple_n of_o the_o eye_n of_o the_o question_n shall_v be_v show_v in_o due_a place_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n let_v the_o reader_n note_n that_o m._n fisher_n take_v more_o liberty_n than_o the_o feign_a supposititious_a decree_n of_o geneuâ—_n give_v he_o for_o that_o allow_v a_o man_n only_o to_o lie_v for_o god_n honour_n but_o here_o m._n fisher_n coyn_v a_o lie_n only_o for_o m._n sweet_n credit_n the_o protestant_a relation_n paragraph_n the_o four_o touch_v the_o inuisibility_n of_o the_o romish_a church_n for_o more_o than_o 500_o year_n after_o christ._n before_o i_o propound_v my_o argument_n i_o crave_v leave_n in_o few_o word_n to_o lay_v open_a the_o vanity_n of_o the_o usual_a discourse_n wherewith_o you_o draw_v and_o delude_v many_o of_o the_o ignorant_a and_o unlearned_a you_o bear_v they_o in_o hand_n that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o world_n as_o a_o protestant_n before_o luther_n and_o that_o all_o the_o world_n believe_v as_o you_o do_v that_o your_o church_n have_v not_o be_v only_o visible_a in_o all_o age_n and_o all_o time_n but_o eminent_o conspicuous_a and_o illustrious_a which_o be_v such_o a_o notorious_a untruth_n that_o i_o here_o offer_v before_o all_o this_o company_n to_o yield_v you_o the_o better_a and_o acknowledge_v myself_o overcomne_a if_o you_o can_v produce_v out_o of_o good_a author_n i_o will_v not_o say_v any_o empire_n or_o kingdom_n but_o any_o city_n parish_n or_o hamlet_n within_o five_o hundred_o year_n next_o after_o christ_n in_o which_o there_o be_v any_o visible_a assembly_n of_o christian_n to_o be_v name_v maintain_v and_o defend_v either_o your_o trent-creed_n in_o general_a or_o these_o point_n of_o popery_n in_o special_a that_o there_o be_v a_o treasury_n of_o saint_n merit_n and_o superaboundant_a satisfaction_n at_o the_o pope_n dispose_n that_o the_o laity_n be_v not_o command_v by_o christ_n institution_n to_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o both_o kind_n etc._n etc._n then_o to_o answer_v they_o yet_o certain_o it_o be_v now_o most_o needful_a if_o you_o mean_v not_o to_o answer_v they_o at_o least_o repeat_v they_o this_o you_o dare_v not_o do_v for_o fear_v your_o disciple_n shall_v take_v offence_n you_o dare_v not_o pull_v away_o the_o curtain_n lest_o your_o nakedness_n shall_v be_v see_v you_o be_v wise_a in_o your_o own_o generation_n you_o know_v how_o to_o keep_v those_o in_o the_o dungeon_n who_o you_o hold_v in_o captivity_n they_o must_v not_o see_v a_o glimpse_n of_o light_n lest_o they_o shall_v look_v after_o more_o you_o forbid_v your_o captive_n to_o read_v our_o relation_n and_o in_o your_o own_o you_o slubber-ove_a whatsoever_o touch_v you_o near_o you_o well_o know_v m._n fisher_n that_o antiquity_n never_o know_v your_o drossy_a treasure_n of_o superaboundant_a satisfaction_n nor_o your_o dry_a supper_n without_o the_o lord_n cup_n nor_o your_o solitary_a communion_n without_o communicant_n nor_o your_o unintelligible_a prayer_n nor_o your_o ignorant_a devotion_n nor_o your_o irregular_a canonise_a of_o traitor_n nor_o your_o paint_a flame_n oâ—_n purgatory_n nor_o your_o coney-catch_a indulgence_n nor_o any_o of_o the_o like_a new_a trash_n and_o
mother_n of_o the_o rest_n nay_o the_o whole_a church_n there_o have_v she_o her_o pattern_n from_o the_o donatist_n of_o appropriate_v to_o herself_o the_o title_n &_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n exclude_v all_o other_o from_o the_o hope_n of_o salvation_n so_o the_o romanist_n cast_v into_o hell_n all_o the_o christian_n of_o greece_n russia_n armenia_n syria_n aethiopia_n because_o they_o refuse_v to_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o tyranny_n of_o the_o pope_n as_o also_o the_o state_n &_o kingdom_n of_o europe_n which_o have_v free_v themselves_o from_o their_o aegyptiacall_a bondage_n that_o the_o romanist_n abuse_v we_o with_o pretence_n of_o antiquity_n unity_n universality_n make_v the_o simple_a believe_v that_o all_o be_v ancient_a which_o they_o profess_v and_o that_o the_o consent_n of_o all_o age_n be_v for_o they_o whereas_o it_o be_v easy_a to_o prove_v that_o all_o the_o thing_n wherein_o they_o differ_v from_o we_o be_v nothing_o but_o novelty_n and_o uncertainty_n that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n have_v be_v divide_v from_o they_o for_o certain_a hundred_o of_o year_n and_o more_o to_o that_o purpose_n which_o in_o that_o preface_n he_o promise_v and_o in_o the_o tractate_n prove_v to_o which_o book_n i_o think_v m._n fisher_n or_o some_o other_o of_o his_o pewfellow_n shall_v undertake_v in_o order_n proutiacet_fw-la to_o make_v answer_n or_o else_o never_o to_o have_v be_v so_o hardy_a to_o cite_v that_o author_n who_o line_n upbraid_v they_o with_o inability_n or_o negligence_n so_o long_o as_o they_o suffer_v so_o learned_a and_o laborious_a a_o treatise_o bend_v point_n blank_a against_o the_o wall_n of_o rome_n to_o remain_v unbattered_a now_o to_o your_o alleviation_n you_o say_v in_o that_o speech_n of_o you_o concern_v man_n not_o able_a by_o their_o own_o ability_n to_o find_v out_o the_o infallible_a faith_n you_o mean_v not_o to_o imply_v that_o any_o be_v able_a of_o themselves_o without_o help_n of_o god_n grace_n to_o attain_v the_o true_a faith_n i_o hope_v you_o mean_v not_o because_o i_o trust_v that_o you_o be_v not_o sink_v so_o deep_a into_o pelagianisme_n yet_o you_o shall_v have_v circumcise_v your_o lip_n and_o tongue_n and_o keep_v better_v the_o apostle_n rule_v 13._o to_o hold_v fast_o the_o for_o i_o of_o sound_a word_n for_o what_o christian_a ear_n can_v endure_v to_o hear_v of_o man_n able_a by_o their_o own_o ability_n of_o wit_n or_o learning_n to_o find_v out_o faith_n wit_n and_o learning_n i_o grant_v be_v god_n good_a gift_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d not_o to_o be_v undervalve_v much_o less_o contemn_v yet_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o that_o wit_n and_o learning_n without_o grace_n such_o be_v the_o corruption_n of_o our_o nature_n rather_o hinder_v then_o further_o our_o conversion_n as_o saint_n austen_n write_v in_o his_o confession_n not_o with_o ink_n but_o with_o tear_n and_o on_o the_o contrary_a grace_n without_o eminent_a wit_n or_o learning_n outstrip_v naked_a wit_n &_o learning_n in_o our_o race_n to_o heaven_n indocticoelum_fw-la rapiunt_fw-la et_fw-la nos_fw-la cum_fw-la doctrinis_fw-la nostris_fw-la etc._n etc._n as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o add_v that_o visibility_n though_o alone_o it_o prove_v not_o the_o true_a church_n yet_o that_o it_o much_o help_v to_o the_o proof_n thereof_o i_o much_o desire_v you_o to_o help_v i_o here_o in_o show_v i_o how_o it_o much_o help_v for_o visibility_n be_v but_o a_o common_a accident_n and_o i_o find_v no_o topic_a place_n in_o aristotle_n ab_fw-la uno_fw-la accident_n communi_fw-la ad_fw-la subiectum_fw-la suppose_v a_o mere_a natural_a man_n be_v to_o choose_v his_o religion_n and_o his_o church_n what_o will_v visibility_n help_v he_o beside_o all_o sort_n of_o christian_a church_n jewish_a synagogue_n mahumetane_a and_o gentile_a congregation_n be_v visible_a will_v you_o say_v that_o be_v the_o true_a church_n which_o be_v more_o visible_a if_o you_o carry_v it_o away_o from_o we_o by_o that_o mark_n the_o greek_a church_n will_v carry_v it_o away_o from_o you_o the_o mahumetanes_n from_o the_o greek_a christian_n and_o the_o idolatrous_a gentile_n from_o all_o but_o this_o point_n have_v be_v handle_v before_o in_o my_o six_o &_o eight_o assertion_n touch_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n therefore_o omit_v all_o far_a prosecution_n of_o this_o point_n and_o my_o proof_n by_o syllogism_n i_o come_v now_o to_o justify_v my_o induction_n the_o protestant_a relation_n paragraph_n the_o ten_o touch_v the_o induction_n and_o break_v up_o of_o the_o conference_n the_o protestant_a church_n be_v so_o visible_a that_o the_o name_n of_o those_o who_o teach_v and_o believe_v the_o doctrine_n thereof_o may_v be_v produce_v in_o the_o first_o hundred_o year_n and_o second_o and_o three_o and_o four_o et_fw-la sic_fw-la de_fw-fr caeteris_fw-la and_o so_o in_o the_o rest_n therefore_o it_o be_v so_o in_o all_o age_n first_o i_o name_v those_o of_o the_o first_o age_n and_o i_o begin_v with_o he_o who_o be_v the_o begin_n of_o all_o our_o lord_n and_o saviour_n jesus_n christ_n bless_v for_o ever_o etc._n etc._n m._n fisher._n name_v of_o all_o age_n or_o else_o you_o do_v nothing_o d._n feat_o i_o can_v name_v all_o at_o once_o will_v you_o have_v i_o name_n man_n of_o so_o many_o age_n at_o one_o breath_n &_o c_o m._n fisher._n you_o shall_v not_o begin_v at_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n d._n feat_o you_o be_v not_o to_o make_v my_o induction_n i_o will_v begin_v with_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n etc._n etc._n m._n fisher._n name_v the_o rest_n in_o all_o age_n and_o then_o i_o will_v answer_v d._n feat_o first_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o age_n and_o then_o i_o will_v proceed_v to_o the_o second_o etc._n etc._n m._n fisher._n i_o will_v not_o answer_v you_o any_o thing_n till_o you_o have_v make_v your_o catalogue_n d._n feat_o m._n fisher_n i_o charge_v you_o as_o you_o will_v answer_v it_o before_o christ_n himself_o at_o the_o dreadful_a day_n of_o judgement_n to_o answer_v direct_o whether_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n teach_v our_o faith_n or_o you_o etc._n etc._n notwithstanding_o this_o deep_a charge_n m._n fisher_n still_o refuse_v to_o answer_v to_o the_o argument_n of_o instance_n in_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n etc._n etc._n master_n fisher_n answer_n by_o a_o counter-relation_n after_o this_o d._n feat_o name_v for_o the_o first_o age_n our_o lord_n and_o saviour_n christ_n and_o his_o twelve_o apostle_n and_o saint_n paul_n and_o saint_n ignatius_n after_o which_o he_o stay_v awhile_o as_o if_o he_o have_v study_v for_o more_o name_n but_o not_o remember_v any_o more_o who_o he_o will_v set_v down_o for_o the_o first_o age_n he_o say_v these_o not_o deny_v other_o may_v serve_v for_o the_o first_o age._n then_o turn_v to_o m._n fisher_n he_o say_v let_v we_o dispute_v of_o these_o no_o say_v m._n fisher_n name_n first_o of_o all_o age_n what_o say_v d._n feat_o will_v you_o not_o dispute_v of_o christ_n and_o his_o apostlâ—es_n yes_o say_v m._n fisher_n in_o due_a place_n but_o first_o name_n the_o rest_n in_o all_o age_n and_o then_o i_o will_v answer_v you_o what_o say_v d._n feat_o do_v not_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n deserve_v the_o first_o place_n m._n fisher._n i_o will_v not_o answer_v before_o you_o have_v name_v the_o rest_n then_o say_v d._n feat_o in_o a_o heat_n well_o you_o will_v not_o dispute_v of_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n than_o you_o grant_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o be_v protestant_n and_o so_o instant_o without_o expect_v m._n fisher_n answer_n he_o turn_v himself_o to_o the_o audience_n and_o say_v he_o grant_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o be_v protestant_n whereupon_o diverse_a of_o the_o audience_n make_v such_o a_o shout_n as_o if_o they_o have_v get_v a_o victory_n with_o such_o a_o noise_n as_o m._n fisher_n endeavour_v to_o answer_v for_o a_o time_n can_v not_o be_v hear_v but_o he_o rise_v up_o and_o with_o his_o hand_n and_o voice_n crave_v silence_n make_v such_o as_o will_v hear_v he_o understand_v how_o false_o d._n feat_o have_v slander_v he_o to_o his_o face_n and_o either_o then_o or_o upon_o some_o like_a occasion_n he_o say_v what_o may_v i_o expect_v behind_o my_o back_n when_o you_o thus_o misreport_n i_o to_o my_o face_n and_o in_o this_o sort_n when_o many_o of_o the_o company_n be_v willing_a to_o depart_v d._n feat_o be_v call_v upon_o as_o it_o seem_v by_o some_o of_o his_o companion_n to_o go_v away_o do_v arise_v and_o offer_v to_o be_v go_v yet_o in_o his_o rise_n he_o turn_v to_o m._n fisher_n say_v will_v you_o dispute_v upon_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n or_o no_o to_o which_o m._n fisher_n say_v i_o will_v if_o you_o will_v stay_v and_o stretch_v out_o his_o hand_n he_o take_v d