â—e Lord we will not heare them of thee â—ut we wil doo whatsoeuer thing goeth â—orth of our owne mouth as to burne â—ncense vnto the Queene of heauen and â—o poure our drinke offerings vnto her as we haue doone both we and our fathers our kinges and our princes in the â—itie of Iuda in the streetes of Hierusalem Whereas in deede they woorshipped sacrificed to the Sonne Moone and Starres and committed grosse Idolatrie against god Euen as you haue learned by that idolatrous people and grounded I thinke vppon this place to call the Virgin Mary Queene of heauen and to sing Salue Regina and againe Regina coeli laetare Reioyce O Queene of heauen And euen from this same time wherein Ieremie liued and for the most parte vntill the time of our Sauiour there were false Prophets and men of greate learning which preached idolatrie in steed of Gods lawe yet imagined that they serued God shal we say that these were of Gods church because their religion continued so long a time woulde that excuse them or the Pharisees in pleading that they were the true successors of Moses the children of Abraham and that they taught the Lawe of God when as in deede they had corrupted the Lawe Euen so albeit you boaste neuer so much of succession or that your Church hath continued thus manie hundreâ— or thus many thousand yeeres or that your Churche is the knowne Catholike Church if that you be not able to prooue by the woord of God that your Church is the true Church and the religion and doctrine of your Church is fully and wholy in euery point grounded vppon the Gospell of Christ which you shall neuer be able to doo then you boaste and bragge in vayne The Turke himselfe by this argument of succession and continuance may approue the Alcaron and religion of Mahomet and this to be as true a Churche as yours This reason might the Aegyptians the Persians the Romanes and all Esawes broode haue alleadged for themselues So that to ende this matter it is neither the title or name of a Churche neither the succession of Officers or the continuance of the same or the aucthoritie of anie man that maketh the difference betwixte the true and false Churche but onelie the true worde of God which discetneth them Papist 14 MOreouer let anie Protestant shewe how that can be the piller of truth whiche durst not for a thousande yeares together claime either the preaching of Gods worde or ministring the Sacramentes or woulde vtter her selfe against falshood and superstition Let any man shew that all the giftes of the Spirite and functions of the holie Ghoste haue been taken from her for a thousande yeares together and onely practised for the peoples vse by the adulterous Churche Let it bee declared how the gates of bell haue not preuailed and Christes woordes promise and warrant for her hath not bene voyde and frustrate of a bastarde churche exercising perpetuall idolatrie as they say hath spoyled the true churche of all holie actions and of the whole gouernement and of the whole name of Christianity almost euer since Christes time Let me see therefore howe the onely dareling and spouse of Christe shoulde be neglected so long of him so long let the Aduersarie shewe that the Churche should euer by superstition and falshood committ adulterie or deserue to be deuorced from him or that Christ shoulde euer want his spouse in earth or that he shoulde be either a heade without a bodie or of such an vnknowen and small bodie or that Christ his onelâ—e kingdome should become so contemptable or that his spouse in earth shoulde euer lacke the singuler prerogatiue of Gods spirit Shewe me these things and I recant Answeare 14. COncerning the principal matter comprised in this your demaunde it is sufficientlie answeared before howe that all the Christians in Greece and Asia haue euer refused to agree with your Churche in faith and doctrine that God hath raised vp from time to time since your Churche declined from the true and Apostolike faith some which haue inueighed against your superstitious traditions euen as it is recorded by a learned writer who affirmeth That there hath bene some in euerie age which haue honored and embraced the Gospell but that within the space of these foure hundred yeares the zeale therof hath decaied in manie men And whereas you aske Howe the holie Ghost coulde be kepte so long from this close â—hurche how the gates of hell haue not preâ—ayled against it howe Christes dearling â—ouldâ— be neglected howe Christe shoulde â—e head of suche a Churche as hath either â—o bodie at all or else a very small and â—tle bodie â–ª I answeare that albeit to your â—do â—meaâ— the Churche of God whiche â—s the congregation of the faithful be conâ—mptible and despised yet neuerthelesse â— God 's eyes it is precious The holie Ghost commeth not in visiâ—le forme vnto the children of God as the Owle or Howlet presented himselfe in the â—ytime and stared your Pope Iohn in â—e face when he and his Cleargie were â—t in a general Councell holden at Rome by which occasion the Councel was dissolâ—ed â–ª but he is the comforter which shall â—wayes remaine with the church of God â—hich dwelleth with suche as be faithful â—hich guydeth and ruleth their mindes â—hich doth saÌ„ctifie them inwardly whiche â—pirite doeth breathe his graces where â—e listeth and when he pleaseth And thereâ—ore it is a great fault in you to vtter suche â—ashe iudgement and to propounde suche vayne questions or rather as you seeme to define where Gods spirite remayneth as though you had him in a string or that he should be at your becke and appointment The wordes of Christ be true That Hell gates which is the power of Sathan Antichrist which standeth in crafte and violence shall not preuaile against the Churche of God. For you may burne their bodies racke them in peeces teare them in sunder with wilde Horses boyle them in cauldrons roaste them on spittes broyle them vppon gridyorns stabbe and prodde them in with bodkins or penkniues throwe them vnto wilde beastes or other waies to torment them as your Church oâ— Rome hath vsed the children of God euen this close Churche whiche you so often do skoffe at Neuerthelesse their names are written in the booke of life When yoâ— haue consumed the bodie you haue no further power you haue done all that you caâ— for Christes Churche is Christes darling in deede whom he wil not forsake because he is alwayes faithfull and sure in his promises The mouth of God hath promised them helpe whiche cannot lie Christe iâ— deede is the true andonelie heade of his Churche whiche be the faithfull children â—f God truely called the temple of God â—ecause that GOD is resident in them by â—is holie spirite and these faithfull are the â—tones of the new Ierusalem which is the â—niuersall Churche of God of
priuiledge I am sure you will say that you receiued it of Peter the Apostle of Christ because that herevpon you doe ground all your church and religion For that as you say Peter being the cheefe and head of the Apostles hauing the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen cōmitted vnto him being Bishop of Rome it commeth by discent and orderly succession vnto all the Bishops of Rome But this your supposition I vtterly denie that either Peter was the cheife of the Apostles or that the keyes were solely and only giuen vnto him by Christ or that Peter euer was at Rome That Peter was not the heade of the Apostles it is playne by the testimonie of S. Paule who saith That he which was mightie by Peter in the Apostolike ouer the circumcision was also mightie by him towardes the Gentils And againe he saith when Iames Cephas and Iohn knewe of the grace that was giuen vnto me whiche are compted to be pillers they gaue to me to Barnabas the right hands of felowship that we should preach vnto the Gentils they to the circumcision And your ordinarie glose vpon this word saith That Paule did not learne of others as of his superiours but did conferre with them as with his friendes and equals When the. 2. sonnes of Zebede desired to be exalted and that the other tenne disdayned therefore at them our Sauiour Christ called them all before him saying Ye knowe that the Lordes of the Gentils haue dominion ouer them that they be great exercise auctoritie ouer thē but it shall not bee so among you but whosoeuer will be great among you let him bee your seruant and whosoeuer will be chiefe among you let him bee your minister When the Apostles disputed by the way for superioritie our Sauiour Christe saide If anie man desire to be firste or chiefe the same shal be last of all and seruaunt vnto all And oftentimes the Apostle Paule calleth all the Apostles Fellowe laborers Workers together and Companions That godly father Cyprian sayth Peter was euen the same that the other Apostles were indued with like fellowshippe both in honour and also in dignitie And Chrisostome writinge vppon the Epistle to the Galathians saieth Paule had no neede of Peter neither did he lacke his consent but was his fellowe companion in honour Nowe for the keyes you say that Christ gaue them onely vnto Peter When he said Vnto thee will I giue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen First you must vnderstande that the keyes of which our sauiour Christ heare maketh mencion are the worde and scriptures of God And so Saint Chrisostome doeth expounde these words saying Clauis est scientia scripturarum per quam aperiturianua veritatis The keye is the knowledge of the holy scriptures by the which the gate of the trueth is opened And these keyes were not proper to Peter but common to all For Saint Augustine saith That when Christ did saie vnto Peter I will giue vnto thee the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen he meant his whole church An other saith The keye beareres are the ministers of Gods word vnto whome is committed the teaching of the word and the interpretation of the Scriptures An other sayth This saying vnto thee I will giue the keyes of the kingdome of Heauen is common also vnto other the words which followe as spoken vnto Peter are common to all Thus you may see that Peter neither hath any diuinitie aboue the rest neither the keyes which be the scriptures do belonge more vnto him then to the other Apostles and faithfull ministers of Gods church Nowe to proue that Peter was neuer at Rome It appeareth euidently that our sauiour Christ gaue Peter and the rest a charge to tarry at Hierusalem after his ascention who continued there preaching the Gospel insomuch that he conuerted at one sermon three thousande soules Hee is put in prison and beinge deliuered was charged not to speak any more in the name of Iesus Notwithstandinge he with the rest did preach still and being put in prison againe was deliuered by an Angell who setteth open the prison doores The Apostle Peter with his fellowes cease not to preach both dayly in the temple and also in priuate houses Paule is conuerted the first yeare after Christes ascention receiueth the holy Ghost yet he remaineth at Damascus and in the coūtreis adioyning for the space of three yeares after his conuersion in the fourthe yeare he cometh to Hierusalem to see Peter where he aboade with him fifteene dayes Peter then goeth to Ioppa where he healeth Aeneas which had kept his bedde èight yeares and was sicke of the palsie he rayseth Tabitha from death Hee is sent for vnto Caesarea where he conuerteth Cornelius Peter returneth to Hierusalem where hauing some contention with them of the circumcision he sheweth the cause why he went vnto the Gentills Peter is put in prison againe by Herodes commaundement and sleeping betwene two souldiers bound with two chaines the Angel smot him on the side and the chaines fel of and he was brought forth of prison and entred into the citie the iron gate opened to them by it owne accorde and they came to Maries house Shortly after he goeth againe to Caesaria where he abideth I shewed before that in the fourth yeare after Paules conuersion he came to Hierusalem to see Peter Then fourteene yeares after that he cometh to Hierusalem againe where the Apostles helde a Councell together where Peter was present where Iames Peter and Iohn gaue vnto Paule and Barnabas the right hands of felloweshippe that they shoulde preache vnto the Gentills And Peter and his fellowes vnto the Iewes For Paule had saide before that the Gospell ouer the vncircumcision which were the Gentilles was committed to him as the Gospell ouer the Circumcision which were in the Iewes was committed vnto Peter Then Paule goeth vnto Antioche Whether Peter after a short time did also come whome Paule rebuked before all men because he caused the Gentills to liue after the manner of the Iewes These thinges should be done about nineteene yeares after Paule his conuersion in which time it is manifest that Peter had not bene at Rome Whereby they bee deceaued whiche affirme that Peter was Bishop of Rome fiue and twentie yeares for that nowe he should haue bene in the middest of his Bishoprike and that he could not after this time be fiue and twentie yeares there it is most plaine for that he liued in all after Christes ascention but three and thirtie yeares But nowe to proceede to my purpose that is to proue that Peter was neuer at Rome by such coniecturall argumentes as will hardly by the Scriptures bee disproued About two and twentie yeares after Paule his conuersion vnderstanding that Claudius the Emperour had commaunded all the Iewes to depart from Rome he
tongue of your crouching before idolles of the placing of the saide idolls in your Churches of your worshippe done vnto them of your pilgrimages of the supremacie of your holie father the Pope of your vnwritten verities and of all the rabble of your ceremonies ordinances and traditions whiche haue no warrant of Gods worde in whiche you repose saluation and by whiche you greatlie deceiue Gods people Will not the Lorde call you to an accompt for abusing and deceiuing thus his people in giuing them darnell and chaffe for wheate in feeding them with your owne inuentions without anie warrant or authoritie of Gods worde Hath not GOD set downe a platforme in his holie Scriptures howe hee wil be worshipped and serued commaunding That you shall neither adde nor diminishe turne â—either to the right hande nor to the lefte but syncerelie to walke in the wayes of the Lorde And hath threatened moreouer That if anie man shall adde vnto the things whiche bee written GOD shall adde vnto him the plagues that bee written And if anie man shall diminishe from the wordes of GOD his part shal be taken awaie out of the booke of life But either sufficient is spoken â—r inough will not serue Onelie this â—hing I require of you that you will â—ot take in ill parte whatsoeuer I â—aue written the Lorde is my witâ—esse that I haue not beene mooued herevnto either of malice or of vaine â—lorie neither haue I written or set â—owne anie doctrine but onelie that â—hich in my conscience as I shall answere at the dreadfull daye of iudgement I am perswaded to bee the verie â—ueth If you thinke that I haue not â—llie absolutely answered your Interrogations and Demaundes which you haue set downe so diffusedlie and out of order repeating some one thing often and in heaping one vppon another without anie reason or iudgement in charging vs and laying those heresies to our charge whiche wee are so farre from mainteining of them as that wee do vtterlie abhorre detest yea flatlie condemne them I would haue â—ou to note and plainlie sette downe in what thinges I haue failed or what thinges I haue omitted or in what you bee not fullie resolued and I not to haue sufficientlie aunswered you For I am most willing according to that small talent and gift whiche God hath of his goodnesse bestowed vppon mee to imploye my trauell and spende my time in this kinde of exercise Let vs ioyne together in building God his Church for that manie soules bee in daunger by reason of controuersies and contentions whiche bee betwixt vs in that they halte as they did in the time of Elias the Prophete betwixt two opinions doubting what way were best to take Let vs seeke to aduaunce Gods worshippe which is spirituall and must bee done in spirit and trueth GOD is dishonoured either when wee woorshippe anie other then him alone giuing his honor to anie other creature or when wee giue him not that honor whiche hee requireth of vs in his sacred and holie worde or woorshippe him otherwise than hee appointeth The Lord graunt you a penitent hart indue you with true and perfect knowledge that you may seeke the sauing of your owne soule the profitte of Gods â—urch and Congregation and the adâ—ncement of his kingdome that â—h one heart and one minde wee â—y worshippe and serue GOD the â—her and his Sonne Iesus Christ in â—irit and trueth To whom with the holie Spirit three persons and one inuisible and immortall God be all glorie nowe and euer Anthonie Gilbie vnto the Reader THE miserable Iewes and proud Papistes are both alike deceiued by these and such like carnal cogitatioÌ„s as appeares in these popishe questions The Iewes will 〈◊〉 haue an earthlie Messias to whom all â—â—â—s shal be in subiection corporallie viâ—â—â— or else they wil haue none The Papists will haue an earthlie church visible kingdome of the same Messias to the which al nations â—halbe subiect or else they wil haue none 〈◊〉 poore Christ and his persecuted church â—espised of both twaine The Iewes will 〈◊〉 of this poore Nazarite for their king 〈◊〉 â—apists will not haue his contemptible 〈◊〉 to be their church The Papists boast â—â—â—ir antiquitie and succession but the â—â—â—s if that wold serue haue better cause â—ast of both for their antiquitie is farre â—â—â—ter by manie huÌ„dred yeres their sucâ—â—â—on is alowed in the scriptures but the 〈◊〉 is successour in nothing saue in that â—â—â—er deâ—â—ed his maister or when as hee 〈◊〉 Christ carnall worldlie counsell not to suffer but to spare him selfe Otherwayâ— he succeedeth not Peter I say neither â— place nor in doctrine neither in forme of gâ—uernemeÌ„t nor in maner of liuing so that tâ— popish church canne in no wise bee the trâ— church of Christ as may easilie bee proueâ— The papistes talke of Fathers and of coâ—sent but what is that without the warraâ— of Gods word The papistes will not be of tâ— contemptible church they say that is despâ—sed in the world Christ saith that his churâ— must be so They shall deliuer you vp â— be afflicted and shall kill you and yoâ— shal be hated of al nations for my namâ— sake Againe he saith If the worlde haâ— you knowe that it hated mee before hated you if ye were of the worlde thâ— world would loue his own but becauâ— you are not of the world but I haue châ—sen you out of the world therefore thâ— world hateth you Remember the worâ— that I said vnto you The seruaunt is nâ— greater then his maister If they hauâ— persecuted me they will persecute yoâ— also These things haue I said vnto yoâ— that you should not bee offended Theâ— shall excommunicate you yea the timâ— will come that whosoeuer killeth youâ— I thinke that he doeth God seruice â— this is the state of the true churche here â—n earth whereby it is euident that the â—she Romishe Synagogue is not the true â—rch seeing it is so â–ª loued and honored in worlde Christ the head of the true â—rch went vp into heauen by manifolde â—ctions his members the Prophetes and â—ostles entred by the same doore of afflicâ—s not by the windowe of promotions â—d holie Paule affirmeth That whosoeâ—r will liue godlie in Christ Iesus must â—fer persecutions That our faith being â—d like golde in the furnace as Peter â—th might be found precious Thereâ—re Christ and his Apostles are poore in â—is world and like seruants readie to serue â—ers the Pope and his Prelates like worldâ—e Princes rich wealthie and lordlie Christ â—d his humble and lowlie the Pope his â—oude pompeous and haultie Christ his â—aied tribute to Caesar the Pope his take Peter pence and other payments froÌ„ Princes and nations Christ and his suffered humblie afflictions vnder Princes the Pope warreth against Princes treadeth on their neckes causeth them to kisse his pantaphles and to hold his stirrops like a Lucifer and childe of pride Christ and
they mighte bee permitted to haue still the Gospels the Epistles and the Creede in their vulgare tongue iâ— which peticion they affirmed that in the Sclauon language it had beene vsed of old in the Church and likewise in their owne kingdome Charles the great called fiue councels namely at Mentze Rome Remes Cabilon and Arelate also decreed that onely the canonicall bookes of the Scripture shoulde be reade in the Church and none other as it was decreed long before in the councell holden at Carthage He â—ame one of them in the whole Church eiâ—her erected for your faith Church and serâ—ice or not prepared for all sortes for cathoâ—ke practises proue to me that it was done â—or any other seruice and religion then ours â—r that they be monuments of any other faith â—r church then that common knowne cathoâ—cke church And I recant Answeare 9. WHereas you demaund What furniture our Congregation euer â—ad c. I must needes tell you that either â—he hauing of such furniture or the want â—hereof are but weake feble argumentes â— proue the true Church of God by In â—utwarde pompe in superfluous ornaâ—ents in vnnecessarie toyes in vaine decâ—ing of your Churches with gold and silâ—er and other precious and costly attire in â—nprofitable rites in furnishinge your â—mples with abhominable idols in pleaâ—ng the eare in delightinge the eye in â—uginge in roaring in toying in trifâ—ng in nodding in becking in ducking â— all such heathenishe shewes and sensles significations wee thinke your Romishâ— Church excelled all idolatrous Ethnicks before and therefore in such superstitiouâ— trifles wee will not compare with you but willingly geue vnto you the preheminence because they be not signes of true religion but badges of Antichriste and furniture to deck the whore of Rome withall For all such kind of trumperie be her very markes As these was none of these toyes in the primitiue Churche neither in anie true reformed Churche sithence that â—â—ine â–ª so there was no Churches vntill the time of Constantine the great who builded churches and moued others to doe the like for the people of God to repaire vnto for to heare the worde of God truly preached to receiue the Sacramentes faithfully ministred according to Christes institution for the same vse and purpose we haue builded Churches and doe continually repaire and reedifie suche as be decayed and â—uâ—nous But vnto the time of Constantine the Christians were violentely and extremelie put to death and persecuted of tyrantes hauing no publike places to resorte vnto but priuately assembled themselues sometimes in dwelling houses sometimes in hollowe caues and dennes â—or feare of the cruel bloudie torments Laurentius Valla saith that in times past before the raigne of Constantine the greate the Christians had no temples but secrete and close places holie little houses but no great and gorgeous buildinges chappelles no Churches oratories within priuate walles no publike and open Churches For your chalices I will onelie vse the saying of Pope Boniface In time past saith he golden Byshoppes vsed woodden chalices but now wodden Byshopps vse golden chalices In like manner in Constantine his time there were no altars of lime stone but communion tables of wood and a long time after as it may easilie be proued by auncient writers Athanasius writeth That the ArriaÌ„ Heretikes in their furie and their rage did carrie foorth and burne the seates the pulpettes the wodden table and boorde and suche other thinges as they coulde gett out of Christian Churches S. Augustine writeth the same of the Donatistes Concerning your vestimentes your catholike practises and all your trumperies and beggerly Ceremonies for which you haue no warrant in Gods booke we way not one rushe Wee hould vs contented with that which Christ our sauior his Apostles and other catholik godly Fathers vsed Did not our sauiour Christ I pray you minister his last supper vnto his Apostles at the table without any further ceremonie euen as the Apostles all true Christians haue done euer more â–ª whose example the Lord grauÌ„t vs to folow Papist 10 I Aske of them whether the Lutherans Zwinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Zwingfeldians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one church or that eche of these sectes may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with the other in high points of our religion or that I should beleeue all these rather then the catholike church or one of these more then an other all makinge such a bould chaleÌ„ge for the truth Gospel Let the protestants of all these conferr together shew me of these things and with all amoÌ„g them selues agree to what sort of these sectes they would haue me I recant Answeare 10 I Do merueile greatly that you impute vnto our religion the heresies of the Anabaptists Swingfeldians seing that wee doe not in our daily sermons inueigh against their blasphemous errours but also haue written sundry bookes to confute the the same You doe aske a verie hard difficult questioÌ„ which you do vtter either for want of wit or lacke of knowledge to wit Whether Caluin c. were of one Churche whether they gaue saluatioÌ„ to their followers It is not in man precisely to define who is of Gods Church for that they only be of Gods inuisible church Whome God hath elected vnto saluation in his sonne Christ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was layd God only doth knowe who are his But it may be that you vnderstand it of the visible church then I will aunswere you accordingly that we are certainly persuaded that they were Gods children and that they ended their life and closed vp their eyes in the true faith of Christe doe rest now in Gods Kingdom Where you seeme to charg them with manifold scismes diuersitie of iudgmentes the truth is that they agreed in all points with the scriptures sauing that Luther in the real presence dissented from the rest which heresie as I haue noted before he receiued of your church of Rome I would not haue you to thinke that we ground our faith and religion or repose any part of our saluation vpon any particular Church or Councel or vpon any mortall man as you do We receiue mens iudgments and writings as they are men and so may erre And so the godly Fathers in times past were reputed and taken S Augustine hath these woordes Wee ought not sayth he to accept the disputations writings of any one be they neuer so Catholik and prayse worthie as we do receiue the canonicall scriptures but that sauinge their reuerence due vnto them we may well finde fault with or reiect some thinges in their writinges if it happen we finde they haue otherwise thought then the truth may beare them so am I in
the king as vnto the chiefe And to conclude he saieth Honour all men Loue brotherly felowship feare God honoure the king Markâ— also howe Tertullian a godlie Father agreeth with the Apostle against your supâ—rioritie We honour saith he the Emperoures maiestie as a man next vnto GOD for so is the Emperour greateâ— then all men while he is lesse then onelie the true God. Of this minde waâ— Pope Gregory as hee sheweth in an Epistle which he writeth vnto Mauritiuâ— the Emperour Beholde saith he Thuâ— will Christe answeare you by me beinâ— both his and your most humble seruantâ— I haue committed my priests into youâ— handes as for my parte I beyng subiect vnto your Maiesties commaundâ—ment haue caused your order to be senâ— throughout diuerse parts of the world â–ª So that by the premisses it plainelâ— appeareth what dangerous errours and corrupt doctrine moste repugnant to Christe your Churche of Rome hath taught the people of God. Papist 18 LET anie Protestante in the whole worlde prooue vnto me that their Churche coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that â— man aliue coulde name a place where â—y such churche was or that it might bee â—lled holie which had neither Baptisme â—r anie other sacrament to sanctifie anie â— her felowes withall or that it coulde bee â—e which as it grewe vp in the worlde was â—uided into so manie sundrie sectes â–ª or that â— might be called Apostolike which coulde â—uer make an accompt by orderly successiâ— from anie apostolike man or that the seâ—ete base and disordered congregation was â—er of that maiestie that it might require â—e obedience of all nations or that it was â—er able to gather generall councels or exâ—cise discipline vpon offendours or that â—hese titles proper by scripture and doctours â— the true church could euer be chaleÌ„ged by â—ght to their congregation I meane these â—itles following Corpus Christi the bodie of Christ Sponsa Christi the spouse of Christ â—nicè dilecta Christo the dearely beloued of Christ Amica Christi Christes louer Doâ—us dei Gods house Columba speciosa the beautifull Doue Columna veritatis thâ— piller of truth Ciuitas Dei the citie of Godâ— Ciuitas super montem posita a Citie set vpoâ— a hill Hortus conclusus a close garden Fons signatus a fountaine sealed vp Sponsa agnt The spouse of the Lambe Answeare 18 YOu doe vâ—ge often this Catholike Church and doe seme as of right to challenge iâ— to be your Churche of Rome but how vntruely I haue partely touched before This worde Catholike doth signifie vniuersall as in deede the true church of God is vniuersally spread and scattered abroade in all coastes and countries of the worlde and so doe diâ—erse good writers speake of it Saint Augustine sayeth That the catholike Churche is dispearsed throughout the whole earth And iâ— another place hee sayeth That the Church is called Catholike because she is vniuersally perfect and halteth in nothing and is poured throughout the whole worlde An other saith That the vniuersall Churche is Hierusalem the citie of the liuing God which comprehendeth the congregation of the electe and chosen written in heauen An other sayeth That the churche is truely called catholike which is separated by sincere pure and vnspotted communion or felowship from all vnfaithful persons and from their successours and companions These thinges of duetie appertaine vnto the Churche First that it is vniuersall and therefore as I haue sayde before it is not limited eyther to place time or person Secondarily that it is of â—he elect whome God in his secrete and â—rcane knowledge hath sealed vnto life eâ—erlasting Thirdly that it hath no felowâ—hippe with the vnfaithfull and with such â—s will not beleeue the trueth Neuerâ—helesse in the visible churche there be of â—ll sortes mixte together both good and â—adde beleeuers and hypocrites darâ—ell and pure wheate But to answeare â—our interrogation You woulde knowe Howe the Protestantes churche can be calâ—d the true Catholike and Apostolike â—hurche And I woulde demaund the like â—f you howe your Churche of Rome can â— knowne to be the true churche of god â—ruly there is an vnfallible rule set down readie howe the true Churche of God may be knowne and howe this controuersie may easily be decided For if we will beleeue the holie Apostle of God he telleth the Ephesians That they are no more straungers and Forrenners but citizens with the sainctes and of the howshould of God and are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone in whome all the building coupled together groweth to an holy temple in the Lorde So that you may see that the true Church of God is discerned and knowen by the Scriptures The true sheepe doe heare the voice of Christ and will not heare a stranger And so the godly father Augustine saith That in the scriptures wee learneâ— Christ in the Scriptures wee learne the Churche Wherefore doe wee not then reteine in them both Christe and his Church And writing against the Donatists being notorious heretikes he saith Betwixt vs and you this cometh in question where the church is what shall wee doe nowe in this matter â–ª Shall wee seeke for the church in our owne words or in the words of her heade which is our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that wee ought to seeke it rather in his woords who is the truth and doth best of all knowe his owne body So Chrisostome saith That since the time that Heresies inuaded the church there can bee no triall of true Christianitie neither any other refuge of Christians which woulde know the true faith but onely the scriptures of God and therefore he which will know the true Church of God howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures Thus it appeareth that the true Church of God dooth defend her selfe onely by the Scriptures and woord of God which your Church of Rome doeth vtterly refuse for that you boldly affirme that the Scriptures haue not their strength neither receiue their authoritie from god But from the Church of Rome Yea moreouer you say That the holy Church of Rome hath power by a singular priuiledge graunted vnto her to open and to shut vp the gates of the Kingdome of heauen from whom shee listeth and that this power of binding and loosing is no lesse in your church of Rome then it is in Christ But you will say that I doe sclaunder you in saying That you affirme the Scriptures of God to haue their strength and authoritie from the church of Rome Truly one of your owne writers hath these wordes Who soeuer leaneth not sayth he to the doctrine of the Romaine church and to the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the vnfallible rule of God of which Doctrine the holy Scripture taketh her force and authoritie he is an heretike He saith further That