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A06074 The baynes of Aquisgrane, the I. part & I. volume, intituled Variety Contayning three bookes, in the forme of dialogues, vnder the titles following, viz. Profit, pleasure, honour. Furnished with diuers things, no lesse delightfull, then beneficiall to be knowne, and obserued. ...by Roger Baynes gent. a long exile out of England, not for any temporall respect. Baynes Roger, 1546-1623. 1617 (1617) STC 1650; ESTC S115504 73,346 126

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was but a Childes play and therfore by the Tutor vnto Cyrus it was presently reuoked and so serueth you also but vnto small effect AQVILONIVS I would then know what you will say vnto the sentence of Xerxes King of Asia who to saue his owne life in a Tempest at sea was perswaded by his Pilot to cast ouer board all his chiefe Gentlemen and when he came on shore he ordeyned a Crowne of Gould to be giuen to the Pilot for hauing saued his life incontinently after iudged him to be hanged for hauing byn the cause of the death of so many worthy Gentlemen wherupon I would know what Profit grew either to the State or to the Pilot by this kind of sentence when as the one lamented still the losse of their Nobility and the other with his owne death paid the sauing of the Kinges life FAVONIVS This was no more but the will and fantasie of a King and not any formall sentence giuen by the way of processe and therfore not auaylable AQVILONIVS Let vs then consider this other sentence in the cause of a poore Tyler who falling downe from a house brake his legge and killed another man vpon whom he fell whose Sonne suing for Iustice receaued this Iudgement that he should go vp to the toppe of the same house and fall vpon the Tyler kill him if he could as the Tyler fell vpon his Father of which sentence what Profit I pray you ensued either to the one man for breaking of his legge or vnto the other for his Fathers death FAVONIVS This was but a shift of a cūning Iudge to make an end of an impertinent quarrell with a more impertinent arbitrement and therfore as little to the purpose as the rest before AQVILONIVS What say you then to the sentence concerning an Inhabitant of one of the old Cittyes in Greece who hauing deliuered his Country from a notorious perill was by a particuler Law of theirs to be graunted any one petition he would aske and so he demanding another mans wife had her whose first husband hauing shortly after done such another like seruice to his Country demanded his owne wife againe wherin was giuen this sentence Let the Law take place If the Law do take place said the first husband she is wholy myne for that I haue wonne her and if the Law do not take place then also is she myne because she was myne before Wherunto the second husband replied thus If so the Law take place she is wholy mine because the same Law hath already giuen her me and if the Law do not take place then can she not be thine because thou hast no Law to claime her from me that haue receaued her by the Law Wherupon by a second sentence she was sequestred from them both to the great discontentment of the one the other therfore tell me now if you can what Profit did grow vnto any of them by either of these sentences FAVONIVS This is a kind of Riddle rather then a case of Law and therfore to be reiected with the rest AQVILONIVS What say you then to the sentence that was giuen not many yeares ago at home in our owne Country against the Maiesty of Mary the late most Memorable Queene of Scotland was it not a disprofitable thing to the State to sentēce in such sort such an absolute Princesse as was no way subiect to the iurisdiction of those who gaue that sentence against her FAVONIVS You be now descended indeed into so notorious a case of our owne that may not well be so easily reiected as haue been your other before Concerning the which for as much as my selfe do know certaine good and assured particulers such as may giue you some satisfaction if they might be related I will not therfore sticke to say and affirme vnto you that hitherto at the least no disprofit hath ensued therof neither vnto our State nor vs. AQVILONIVS Do you thinke that Dishonour and vniuersall foule Imputation to haue committed therin such an act of Incongruity as was neuer yet heard of before nor will euer be left to be spoken of to the worlds end do you thinke I say that it is no Disprofit vnto your State FAVONIVS Was she not I pray you found culpable of all the contriued crymes that were brought in euidence against her the which being true as it cannot well be denied what cause then haue you to crie out so much as you do vpon the Incongruity of that Sentence giuen AQVILONIVS Can there be any greater Incongruity then to execute the rigour of the Law vpon one who by prerogatiue is not tryable by the same For either it must be that those contryued crimes you speake of were committed before she came into England or after if before cleare it is that by the Law and Reason of State her absolute Soueraignty acquiteth her therof if after then must you shew if you will try her by English Laws how she came to be depriued of that her Soueraigne freedome of birth the liberty wherof in the cause of a priuate person and much more of an absolute Queene cannot be taken from him without either prescription consent or forfaite but of any such prescription concerning the Queenes Maiesty of Scotland we see no Record of Consent no Act nor any forfait neither yet any such crime committed as might depriue her of her Principality the which remayning in her still how could she who vnder no Positiue Law was borne be brought to be tried and executed in a forraine Country by the rigour of any such Law FAVONIVS She was a prisoner and all prisoners be subiect to their Lawes whose Prisoners they be AQVILONIVS Then Iohn Francis Kings of France the one prisoner in England and the other in Spaine might haue byn brought to the barre of Transgressors and tried by either of those Country Lawes but neither of them were so handled therfore belike the Congruity of proceeding would not permit it FAVONIVS If Congruity as you said would not permit it how happened it then that Charles the first King of Naples did in like manner put to death by sentence of the Lawes of that Kingdome his prisoner Conradine who succeeding the Emperour Fredericke the second in the Dukedome of Swenia made also pretense to the Kingdome of Naples AQVILONIVS This also was houlden for such an Incongruous Act Cùm nec Par in Parem potestatem habet nec inferior in Superiorem Leg. 3. 4. de arbitr as all the world cried out vpon the same And particulerly Robert Count of Flanders Sonne-in-Law to the said Charles did for the great indignity therof run his sword through the Protonotary Robert de Bary who read the sentence of Conradines death He also who stroke off his head had presently after by another his owne head stroken off in the same place And this Act was the more grieuously cōdemned because the said Charles himselfe hauing byn taken prisoner before by the
Saracens in the Warres of the holy Land was by them honorably entertained and Royally released Whereupon Peter King of Aragon in an opprobrious letter of his written about this Act and sent to the said Charles sayth to him amongst other things Tu Nerone neronior Saracenis crudelior FAVONIVS It was only iealosy of State that made the said Charles more cruell therein then otherwise perhapps he would haue byn because Conradine not long before was come with a potent armie to take from him his Kingdome of Naples and the same reason may also seeme to excuse the putting to death of the Queene of Scotland because she likewise as then made claime to the Crowne of England and Crownes I can tell you may comport no Competitors AQVILONIVS And yet the forsaid Peter King of Aragon who by the right of Constance his wife Cosen-german to the beheaded Conradine hauing from the said Charles the first King of Naples the Kingdome of Sicilia and also taken Prisoner the Sonne of that Charles called Charles the second who still made claime to Sicilia did notwithstanding not put him to death neither in respect of that claime of his nor yet in reuenge of the death of Conradine his Cosen but with Honorable conditions he was after set at liberty by Iames Sonne to the said Peter at the instance of Edward the first King of England and all this still vnto the greater obloquy of the forsaid Incongruity of Charles the first therfore see now what little cause you had to bring in him for an example to approue the like vsed in England against the Queenes Maiesty of Scotland when she was not taken Prisoner by any Law of Armes as these other Princes were but comming into England of her owne accord yea and inuited was retayned there by force and therfore put the case that she had conspired against the Queene of England and her State as she was charged to haue done she did no more then she might lawfully do to redeeme her owne vniust vexation and to procure her liberty wherof she was most vniustly depriued For which respects her condemnation was as I haue said most incongruous and so much the more for that she was a Woman a Widdow the nearest Ally vnto the Crowne of England an inuited Guest an Exile out of her Kingdome and fled into England for succour and finally in such a state that our State could pretend no lawfull cause of feare for that being indurance she could neither attempt any thing of her selfe nor yet practise with any others further then the State of England would permit and wincke at And therfore by doing as they did they derogated from the Lawes of Nature of Charity of Iurisdiction and Maiesty of Parentage of Hospitality of Protection and finally from the Law of Nations and consequently from humaine Intelligence and reason And thus much concerning the Incongruity of the fact it selfe togeather with the disprofit of that sentence giuen not only in respect of the Vniuersall obliquy risen therby but also of the future harmes which by occasion of that euill example left in memory may happen to grow hereafter vnto some Prince of England in the like case ¶ Heere Subsolanus interrupting their further talke began to say vnto Aquilonius SVBSOLANVS It may suffice herein that we be better content to admit your example of disprofitable Iustice then your proofes of profitable Iniustice though there be place inough left of exception to be made vnto the one as well as to the other were it not that other matters do yet occure to be also spoken of and therfore hauing hitherto treated of Worldlines and Profit in old men in young men in Lawiers in Iudges and in other Magistrates some by ouer-weening of themselues some by excesse of forwardnes some by ignorance some by skill some by Iniustice some by Iustice me thinkes it were now tyme that we should begin to determine what Profit is and how many sorts of Profit there may be said to be AQVILONIVS Take you then the c re therof vpon your selfe to do it for the rest we be already agreed SVBSOLANVS May we not then do well to say That Profit is a thing which is either desired for it selfe or else for some other thing to follow therby AQVILONIVS Me thinkes not because this would seeme to haue relation rather vnto the vtility rising from the thing it selfe then to the gaine to be made therof by any Industry annexed SVBSOLANVS We may then perhaps do better to say That Profit is an Act which may be reputed to consist in buying good cheape and in selling deere AQVILONIVS This on the other side would seeme to haue relation altogeather to the gaine which is to be made of things and not at all vnto the Vtility rising of the thing it selfe SVBSOLANVS It may be that then this other will content you best to say That Profit is no more but a certaine kind of skill how to turne the vse of all things vnto aduantage vnto more aduantage and vnto most aduantage AQVILONIVS It wil be hard I can tell you vnto a word of so diuers relations to make any one description that may hit iust with them all and therfore without searching any further we will admit this last togeather with the former SVBSOLANVS So that heerby already we may begin me thinkes to discouer that of Profit there be two sorts the one called Vtility and the other Gaine AQVILONIVS We may so SVBSOLANVS But may we not likewise say that of Vtility there be three sorts one rysing of thinges another of habits and the third of men AQVILONIVS And this also SVBSOLANVS The Vtility rising of things either senselesse vegetat●ue or sensitiue may we not say it to be double to wit either of such things as be not desired for themselues but for some other Vtility that is to rise of them as when a man take●h a loathsome medicine to recouer his health therby or else of such other things as be desired both for themselues and also for some other Vtility that is to grow of them as when a man taketh a delectable medicine both because it pleaseth his tast and is also profitable for his health AQVILONIVS This also doth content me SVBSOLANVS The Vtility rising of habits may we not say it also to be double to wit either Speculatiue as the Vtility that riseth of knowledg be it Naturall Diuine or Mathematicall or else practicall as the Vtility to rise of ciuill domesticall or politicall skill AQVILONIVS This may also be admitted SVBSOLANVS And the Vtility rising of men may we not say it to be either fatall but yet accompanied with voluntary se●king as the fauour of Princes marriage friendship and the like or Naturall as the Sonne to inherite vnto his Father and the Brother to his Brother or the Nephew to his Vncle or Morall as when one receaueth vtility of another so farre as either decency or neighbourhood doth require or Legall