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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
kingdom_n	brother_n	king_n	richard_n	1,736	5	9.2786	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91303	The treachery and disloyalty of papists to their soveraignes, in doctrine and practise. Together with an exact parallel of the jurisdiction, power, and priviledges claimed and exercised by our popish Parliaments, prelates, Lords and Commons in former times, with those now claimed and practised by the present Parliament, Lords and Commons, which are here manifested to be farre more loyall, dutifull, moderate; more consistent with, lesse invasive on, and destructive to the Kings pretended soveraigne power and prerogative, then those of popish parliaments, and subjects. Wherein likewise the traiterous, antimonarchicall doctrines, practises and attempts of papists upon their soveraignes prerogatives, crownes, persons, with the dangerous consequences, effects, and designes, of their present illegall arming, and accesse to the Kings Army, and person by meanes of evill counsellours, are briefely discovered; ... It is ordered by the Committee for Printing that this treatise be forthwith printed and published, by Michael Sparke, senior. Januar. 13. 1642. John White.; Soveraigne power of parliaments and kingdomes. Part 1	Prynne, William, 1600-1669.; England and Wales. Parliament.	1643 (1643)	Wing P4108; Thomason E248_1; ESTC R203188	101,087	43

presence and of all his Barons and himselfe was one of the Excommunicators That such a one should be ma● their Chiefe Justice who would judge according to Right without respect to poore or rich With other things concerning the kingdome to the common utility peace and honor of the King and kingdome To these their necessa●● Councels and provisions they did frequently and most constantly by way of advice desire the King to condescend swearing and giving their mutuall Faith and hands one to another That they would not defis●● prosecute their purpose neither for losse of money or Lands nor love nor hare no nor yet for life or dea● of them or theirs till they had cleared England to which they and their forefathers were borne from up starts and aliens and procured laudable Lawes The King hearing this and that they came exquisitely arme that so he and his aliens might be enforced if they would not willingly assent tooke his corporall Oath a● his Sonne Prince Edward also that he would submit ●o their Councels and all those their Ordinances f●● feare of perpetuall imprisonment The Lords having by an Edict threatned death to all that resisted Whi● done all the Peeres and Prelates tooke their Oath To be faithfull to this their Ordinance and made all wh● would abide in the Kingdome to sweare they would stand to the ●ryall of their Peeres the Arch-bishop● and Bishops solemnely accursing all that should rebell against it And Richard King of Romans the Kings younger Brother comming soone after into England to visit the King and his owne Lands the d Matth. Par. p. 952 953. Spe. p. 636. Barons enforce him according to his promise sent them in writing before his arrivall to take this Oath as soone as he la●ded in the Chapter-house at Canterbury Heare all men that I Richard Earle of Cornewall sweare upon ●● holy Gospels to be faithfull and forward to reforme with you the kingdome of England hithert● by the councell of wic●ed men so much deformed And I will be an effectuall coadjuto● to expell the Rebels and troublers of the Realme f●● out of the same This Oath will I observe under paine to for feit all my Lands I have in England To such a high straine as this did these Popish Parliaments Prelates Peeres and Commons scrue up their ●●risdictions to preserve themselves and the Kingdome from slavery and desolation whom Matthew Paris ●● continuer for this service stiles e History Angliae p. 95● Angliae Reipublicae Zelatores the Zelors of the English Republicke Neith● is this their example singular but backed with other presidents In the second and third yeares of King E●ward the second f Walsing ●p●digma Neust An. 1309 1310 Hist Ang. p. 70. to 77. S. p. 608. c. with Holin Stow. Graf How and others F●x Act. Mon. v●l ● Ed. ult p. 480 481. Piers Gaveston his great proud insolent covetous unworthy Favorite miscounselling a● seducing the young King from whom he had beene banished by his Father and swaying all things a●●● pleasure the Pe●res and Nobles of the Real●e seeing themselves contemned and that foraine upstart p●●fe●red before them all came to the King and humbly entreated him That he would manage the Affaires of ● Kingdome by the Counsels of his Barons by whom he might not onely become more cautious but more safe from inc●●bent dangers the King Voce ●enus consented to them and at their instance summoned a Parliament at Lond●● to which he commanded all that ought to be present to repaire Where upon serious debate they earn●●ly demanded of the King free liberty for the Barons to compose certaine Articles profitable to himselfe to his kingdome and ●o the Church of England The King imagining that they would order Piers to be banished a lo●● time denyed to grant their demand but at last at the importunate instance of them all he gave his assent a● swore he would ratifie and observe what ever the Nobles should ordaine The Articles being drawne up and agreed by common consent they propounded them to the King and by their importunity much against his well-liking caused him to ratifie them with his Seale and to take his corporall Oath to observe them Which done the Archbishop of Canterbury with his Suffragans solemnely denounced a sentence of excommunication against all who should contradict these Articles which they caused to be openly read in Pauls Church London in the presence of the Prelates Lords and Commons of the whole Kingdome the King being present Among which Articles they demanded That Magna Charta with other provisions necessary to the Church and Realme should be observed that the King ●s his Father had commanded should thrust all Strangers out of his Court and kingdome and remove ill Councellours ●●om him That he would thenceforth order all the affaires of the Kingdome by the Counsell of the Clergie and Lords ●nd begin no warre nor depart any where out of the kingdome without common consent The King notwithstanding ●ll these things seemed hard and insupportable to him consented to the Articles and banished Piers into ●reland No * Note the credit of Princes Regall promises and Protestations sooner was the Parliament dissolved but the King neglecting his Fathers solemne adjurations ●ogether with his owne Oath never to reduce Piers sends for him backe to his Court marryeth him to the Countesse of Glocester his owne sisters daughter sheweth him more favour then ever Resolving with himselfe ●o retaine this Gaveston maugre all his Earles Barons and for the love of him to put his Crowne and life in ●erill when time should serve In which whither the King or his favourite shewed lesse discretion it is not ●t the first easily determined it being as unsafe for the one with so offensive behaviour to affect immoderate ●●ew and use of grace as for the other to the injury of his name and Realme to bestow the same But upon ●he Queenes complaint to the King of France her Brother of Piers his insolence and prodigality and on the ●arons message to the King by common consent That he should banish Piers from his company and observe the ●ffect of the foresaid Articles or else they would certainely rise up against him as a perjured person by a like vow which ●peech seemed hard to the King because he knew not how to want Piers but yet discerned that more danger would spring ●p if he obeyed not the Lords Petition Piers rather by the Kings permission then good liking did the third ●●me abjure the Realme with this proviso that if at any time afterward he were taken in England he should ●e forthwith put to death as a perilous enemy to the Kingdome yet he returning in Christmas to the King at Yorke the Lords spirituall and temporall to preserve the Liberties of the Church the Kingdome and remove this ●iper elected Thomas Earle of Lancaster for their Generall and sent honourable messengers to the King re●uesting him

good Subjects as the Cavaliers doe 〈…〉 w and to take from them their victuals at their pleasure paying little or nothing for them and to ravish their 〈…〉 ves and daughters And if any man persumed to complaine to the King of them he was soone rid out of 〈…〉 way no man knew why nor by whom so that in effect they did what they listed In this Parliament 〈…〉 King having made the Speaker and a great part of mercinary proud ambitious men of the Commons 〈…〉 use to be of his side to act what he required them he then prevayled likewise with the upper house 〈…〉 with the Prelates then with the Lords more out of feare of him then any reason by meanes where 〈…〉 the Commission Charters of pardon and Acts made in Parliament in the 10. and 11. yeare of his raigne 〈…〉 re quite revoked and declared voyd in Law as being done without authoritie and against the will and 〈…〉 ertie of the King and of his Crowne And withall they declared the Judges opinions for which they were 〈…〉 demned in that Parliament to be good and lawfull and attainted the said imprisoned Lords of high 〈…〉 eason and confiscated their lands The two Earles hereupon were beheaded and the Duke by reason 〈…〉 is p●pulat●tie smothered onely for their former actions which done the King adjourned the Par 〈…〉 ent to Shrew●bury where he subrilly procured an o 21. R. c. 12. Act to passe by common consent that t●e power 〈…〉 he Parliament should remaine in seven or eight persons who after the Parliament dissolved should deter 〈…〉 e certaine petitions delivered that Parliament and not dispatched By colour whereof Those Commit 〈…〉 proceeded to other things generally touching the Parliament and that by the Kings app 〈…〉 ment in derogatien p 21. R. 2. c. 16. Walsing Hist Aug. Ann● 1398. p 394 〈…〉 he state of the Parliament the dis●ommodity and pernicious example of the whole Realme And by colour 〈…〉 Authority hereof the King caused the Parliament Rols to be altered and defaced against the effect of the 〈…〉 said grant After which he much vexed and oppressed his people with divers forced Loanes Oathes 〈…〉 positions and oppressing Projects to raise money seeking to trample them under his feet and 〈…〉 roy the Realme and tooke all the Jewels of the Crowne with him into Ireland without the Kingdomes 〈…〉 sent Which rendered him so odious to his people that Henry Duke of Lancaster landing in England the whole kingdome came flocking to his ayde so that he had an Army of 60000. men in a short time who v 〈…〉 ed to prosecute the Kings ill Counsellours Whereupon King Richard returning out of Ireland hearing 〈…〉 the Dukes great Army assembled against him and knowing that they would rather dye then yeeld 〈…〉 of their hatred and seare of him he dismissed his Courtiers hiding obscurely in corners till he was a 〈…〉 prehended and by a Parliament summoned in his name though against his will judicially deposed 〈…〉 his misgovernment Among which Articles of his misgovernment for which he was judicially dethroned these are rema 〈…〉 able First * Graft p. 400 401 402 c. That he was●fully spent the Treasure of the Realme and had given the possessio●s of the Crow 〈…〉 to men unworthy by reason whereof daily new charges more and more were laid on the neckes of the poore C 〈…〉 monalty And when divers Lords were appointed by the High Court of Parliament to commune and t 〈…〉 of divers matters concerning the Common-wealth of the same which being busie about those Commissions he 〈…〉 other of his affinity went about to impeach them of high Treason and by force and threatning compelled 〈…〉 Justices of the Realme at Shrewesbury to condescend to his opinion for the destruction of the said Lords 〈…〉 somuch that he began to raise warre against John Duke of Lancaster Thomas Earle of Arundell Rich 〈…〉 Earle of Warwicke and other Lords contrary to his honour and promise Item He assembled certaine Lancashire and Cheshire men to the intent to make warre on the fores 〈…〉 Lords and suffered them to rob and pillage without correction or reproofe Item Although the King flatteringly and with great dissimulation made Proclamation throughout 〈…〉 Realme that the Lords before named were not attached for any crime of Treason but onely for extortions 〈…〉 oppressions done in the Realme yet be laid to them in the Parliament rebellion and manifest Treason Item He hath compelled divers of the said Lords servants and friends by menace and extreame paines 〈…〉 make great sines to their utter undoing And notwithstanding his pardon to them granted yet he made the fine of new Item That he put out divers * Note Sheriffes lawfully elected and put in their roomes divers of his owne Mi 〈…〉 on s subverting the Law contrary to his Oath and Honour Item For to serve his purpose he would suffer the Sheriffes of the Shire to remaine above one yeare or two Item He borrowed great summes of money and bound him under his Letters Patents for repayment of the sa 〈…〉 and yet not one penny paid Item He taxed men at the will of him and his unhappy Councell and the same Treasure spent in folly not pay 〈…〉 poore men for their victuall and viand Item He said That the Lawes of the Realme were in his head and sometime in his brest by reason of wh 〈…〉 phantasticall opinion he destroyed Noble men and impoverished the Commons Item The Parliament setling and enacting divers notable Statutes for the profit and advancement of the Co 〈…〉 monwealth he by his private friends and solicitors caused to be enacted * Such a kinde of proviso was endevoured to beadded to the Petition of Right 3 Caroli That no Act then enacted should 〈…〉 more prejudiciall to him then it was to any of his Predecessors though with proviso he did often as he listed 〈…〉 not as the Law meant Item That he at his going into Ireland exacted many notable summes of money besides Plate and Jew 〈…〉 without Law or custome contrary to his Oath taken at his Coronation Item That without the assent of the Nobility he carryed the Jewels Plate and Treasure of the kingdome o 〈…〉 the Sea in to Ireland to the great impoverishing of the Realme And all the good Records for the Comm 〈…〉 wealth and against his extortions he privily caused to be imbezeled and conveyed away Item When divers Lords and Justices were sworne to say the truth of divers things to them committed in cha 〈…〉 both for the honour of the Realme and profit of the King the said King so menaced them with sore threatning 〈…〉 that no man would or durst say the right Item He most tyrannically and unprincely said that the lives and goods of all his Subjects were in the Prin 〈…〉 hands and at his disposing Item He craf●ily devised certaine privy Oathes contrary to the Law and caused divers of his

470. Hall f. 176. to 183. Hov●den Annal. pars posterior p. 702. 703. 705. 706. Parliament which may in these cases make any publike Acts without the kings personall ●resence or assent and the assent of the Regent or Protector usually created by them shall as firmely ●inde the king as if he had personally consented as is evident by all the Acts of Parliament passed ●uring the Minority of h Acts and Monuments Old Edition p. 705. See Holinshead Speed Grafton in their lives Henry the 3. who was but 9. yeares old Edward the 3. who was but 1● Richard the 2. who was but 11. yeares old Henry the 6. who was not 9. moneths old Edward the 5. ●ut 12. yeares Henry the 8. not 18. yeares Edward the 6. but 9. yeares of age when they began thei●●aignes and so uncapable of giving any personall consent to Lawes by themselves of which they could not Iudge but by their Protectors and by all Acts made in the absence of King i See Hoveden Annal pars posterior ● 702. 703. 705. 706. Richard the ● Edward the 1. 2. 3. 4. Henry the 3. 2 3 4 5 6 and others out of the Realme all good as ap●eares by 28. H. 8. c. 17. which altered and 33. H. 8 c. 22. which declareth the Law in these particu●ars A cleare demonstration that the Parliament is the most absolute Supreame power and Law-●iver not the king Eightly the king hath little or no hand in making but onely in assenting to Lawes when they are made by the Houses as the usuall forme of passing Acts Le Roy ●e veult The King wills or ●ssents ●o it not before but after they have passed both Houses imports which assent of his if the Bills ●e publike and necessary for the Common good is not meerely arbitrary at the kings will but the king by oath and duty is bound to give it and the Lords and Commons may in justice demand it of meere right as I shall shew anon His Royall assent then though it be the last act which compleats Acts and makes them Lawes yet since it is but an assent to a Law formerly made by both Houses which he cannot alter in any point yea an assent which the king in honour Law justice duty by ●ertue of his ●oronation Oath is bound to give as appeares by the Prefaces of most statutes the sta●ute of Provisours 25. E. 3. Parl. 6. 20. E. 3. and other Acts is so farre from proving the king the Supreme power and Lawgiver that it manifests the contrary that this power principally resides in ●oth the Houses not the king Ninthly this is apparant by those Coronation Oathes which Parliaments and the kingdome in * See Edward ●he ●onfessors Lawes c. 17. in La●bard and Fox king Edwards dayes even before the Co●quest have anciently prescribed to our kings before they would accept of them for their Soveraignes of which I shall give you a short account a Math. Westm An. 1088. Eadmer●s Hist l. 1. p. 13. 14. Ma●●aris Hist p. 12. 13. Speed Hist p. 456. Graften p. 21. 22. Malmes●ury l. 4. p. 119. 120. After the death ●f William the Conquerour William Rufus his younger sonne in the absence of Robert the elder bro●her hastens into England to obtaine the Crowne and finding the greatest part of the Nobles against him he gave his solemne Oath and faith to Lanfran●e Archbishop of Canterb●ry his Tutor that ●f they would make choise of him for their king he would abrogate the over-hard Lawes of his father and ●romise to observe justice equitie and mercy throughout the kingdome in every businesse and defend the ●eace and Liberty of the Church against all men and ease them of all hard taxes Upon which conditions ●olentibus omnibus Provincialium animis by the voluntary consent and voyces of all he was chosen k Sir Thomas Smiths Common wealth of England l. 2. c. 2. 3. Cromptons Iurisdiction f. 7. ● Iohn Vo●el Chronicles of Ireland f. 122. to 130. M. Hackwels Manner of passing Bils Sect. 8. and crowned king Which promise and Oath he soone after breaking saying Who is it that can ●●●●ill all his promises Many of the Nobles levyed warre against him adopting Robert his elder Brother king b Mat. Pa●●s p. 52. 53. ●4 Eadmerus Hist l. 2 p. 55. Wil. Masmes ● 5. p. 1●6 H. ●untin l. 7. p. 378. Roger Hoveden Annal p●●s 1. p. 4●8 Polych ●● c. 11. F●bian part 7. c. 226. p. 318 Graft p. 32. Speed p. 466. 467. William Rufus dying Henry the 1. his younger brother in the life of Robert the right heire assembling all the Glergie and people together to London to procure their favour and love to chuse him for their king and Patron he promised the reformation of those Lawes by which England had beene oppressed in the raignes of his Father and Brother To which the Clergie and Nobles answered that if he would with a willing minde reforme those rigorous Lawes remit the Taxes imposed upon the Subjects and by his Charter confirme those ancient Lawes and customes which flourished in the kingdome in the time of Holy king Edward they would unanimously consent to him and consecrate him for their king Which he willingly assenting to and affirming with an oath that he would performe he was by the assent both of Clergie and people consecrated king at Westminster promising by oath to confirme king Edwards Lawes and renounce all oppression in pursuance whereof as soone as he was created he by his Chartar confirmed and reformed divers Lawes for the ease and benefit of his Subjects recorded at large by Matthew Paris Speed and othe●s The beginning of this Charter is observable Henry by the Grace of God of England c. Know ye that by the mercy of God and COMMON COVNSEL of the Barons of the kingdome of England I am crowne● king And because the kingdome was oppressed with unjust exactions ● out of respect to God and the love I beare towards you all make the Church of God free c. and all the evill custome● wherewith the kingdome of England was unjustly oppressed I take from thence which evill customes I here in part set downe And in the end of his Charter he confirmed and restored to them king E●wards Lawes with those amendments of them which his father made by the consent of hi● Barons After which those Lawes of his were published through all England and Ranulph Bishop of Durham banished the Court and committed to the Tower for his oppression bribery and othe● crimes Henry deceasing c Mat. Par Hist p. 73. Mal●es Novellae Hist l. 1. p. 178. 179. 180 Henry Hunti l. 8 p. 386 387. Hoveden p. 481 482. Mat. West A●. ●● 36 p 35. Speed p. 483. 484. Graf p ●1 42 Maude the Empresse his right heire to whom the Prelates and Noble● had sworne fealty in her fathers life time was put by the Crowne by the Prelates and Barrons wh● thought it

his finger he said * Neta Thou ●● in no wise be ruled by these men for these be those which brought me into this lamentable plight and the mi● thou seest me in A memorable strange speech of a distracted Prince And thus the Emperour 5 Grimstons Imperiall History p. 581 582. Sententia Ex●●ctorationis Depositionis Wencestai An. 14●0 in Germani Hist Tom. 2. p. 180. 181. Iean Crespin L estate de Lesglise p. 465. Wen●●us was likewise deposed by the Princes electors of the Empire For besotting himselfe so with pleasures ● as that he became altogether unfit for the government and a man unprofitable for the Empire and Christian ●●monwealth and Rupert Count Palatine of R●ine and Duke of Bavaria was elected Emperor in his stead ●● like no doubt might be lawfully done here in England by the whole Kingdome and Parliament if ● such cases of incurable folly or frenzy should befal any of our Kings who might then either create a Lord ●tector to governe both King or Kingdome during such disabilities of Government in the King as ●hildricke for a time before his deposition was governed and over-ruled in all thing● by the Marshall ●he Palace or else Crowne the next Heire King if he be capable to Governe Yea in the time of our ●on Kings when the right Heire was an In●ant unable to governe the Crowne usually descended ●he next Heire of full age Hence * Speed● hist p. 252 253. 262. 364 365 See Matthew West Poly●h●onicon Floren. Wigorniensis Holinshed Hun●●ndon and others Wibba King of Mercia deceasing Penda his Sonne being an Infant Crowne descended to his Nephew Ceorl of full age after whose death Penda being of ripe age inheri● the Kingdome So King Wulfeher deceasing leaving his Sonne Kenred within age his Brother Ethelred ●●eeded him who resigning his Crowne and turning Monke after he had Reigned 30. yeares Kenred ●● of full age enjoyed the Crowne So Ethelfred King of Northumberland dying Edelwald his Brother ●●ed the Government and Reigned Aldulfe Ethelherds Sonne being then a minor who enjoyed not ● Crowne till after Edelwalds death So * Gaufredus Monu lib. 3. c. 20. Grafton p. 67. Cassebelan succeeded Lud his Brother in the Kingdome of Bri●e Luds Sonnes being too yong and insufficient to Reigne The like was very usuall in Scotland of ●●h there are divers precedents in Gra●ion Hector B●etius and Buchanan which I pretermit All which 6 Aventine l. 3. f. 293. Fri●ingens l. 5. c. 13. Nauclerus vol. 3. Gen. 26. ●●iculars laid together are a most cleare unanswerable demonstration that the Soveraignest power and ●isdiction of all others resides in the whole Kingdome and Parliament not in the King h●mselfe since ●● may thus dispose of the very Crowne it selfe and determine all controversies all titles which con●e it The King alone having no power to transferre it to any other without the Lords and Com●●s free consents as was resolved in the case of King John who resigned and granted his Crowne to the ●e without the Kingdomes consent and therefore the resignation and grant were adjudged voyd not ●y by the 7 Gra●ton l. 1. 112. French King and his Lords but by our owne Parliament as you may read in 40 Ed. 3. ● 8. and Doctor Craken●●orpe Of the Popes temporall Monarch● cap. 2. p. 251. to 255. This point ●ave thus copiou●ly debated not out of any the least intention to derogate from his Majesties just ●re●acy and P●erogatives royall which I have of● solemnely sworne to maintaine to the utmost of my pow● and shall God willing performe but out of a serious desire to rectifie the generall mistakes of men ●ching a pretended Prerogative which their fantasies onely not the Law have unduely attributed to ● King and to vindica●e the just Liberties Priviledges and Prerogatives of the Parliament so much ●yed declaimed against of la●e by a company of ignorant Papists Ma●ignan●s Royalists who know not ●t the jurisdiction of Parl●aments is according to the Protestation the clearing of which points in my ●ke apprehension is the onely high and ready way to compose our present differences and settle all ● distractions which the ignorance and mistakes of the Kings and Parliaments just Preroga●ives and ●ers next to the trecherous ma●i●e of the Papists have principally raised among us almost to the ●e of the Kingdome For my part I professe sincerely I love and honour both King and Parliament ●● and in the controversies now betweene them concerning their Jurisdictions stand as a man indiffe● to doe right to bo●h without prejudice to either the King being the Principall Member of the Par●ent the elevating of its now disda●ned Power to its due altitude can be no depression but advancement ●e Kings prerogative which shines most perspicuously in Parliaments whiles King and Parliament ●●nited and is most eclipsed onely when they are divided as the precedents in all ages manifest And ● I dare confidently averre that there are no such enemies to the Kings Prerogative as those who ad●cing it beyond due bounds doe necessarily draw it into dispute in which it commonly comes off with ● and diminution in the end as in ●h● late cases of Lo●nes Ship-mony and the like If any here object against the premises f 1 El c. 2. that the King is the onely Supreme Governour of this R●a●● Object That g Li. 1. c. 8. f. 5 6. l 3. c 9. f. 107. Bracton h L. 1. c. 5. 17 Fleta and our i 3 E. 3. 19. Corone 161. 22 Answer E. 3. 3. b. Dyer 297 a. Stamfo 153. a. Law bookes resolve That the King hath no Peere in his Kingdo● for so he should lose his Empire since Peeres or equals have no command over one another much more then ou●● he not to have a Superiour or mightier for so he should be inferiour to those who are subject to him and infer●ours cannot be equall to Superiours The King ought not to be under man but under God and the Law If then J●stice be demanded of him by way of Petition because no writ runs against him though k 22 E. 3. 3. b anciently some w●● did if he doe not justice this punishment may be sufficient to him that he may expect God will revenge it Ne●● quidem de factis suis praesumat disputare m●lto fortius contra factum suum venire c. Therefore the K●● is above the Parliament and whole Kingdome not they above him I Answer First that the meaning of all these Bookes is that the King is above every one of his S●●jects and hath no Peere nor Superiour if they be taken particularly and distributively as single m●● as the words Parem Superiorem in the singular number and the like explaine the meaning of the Book● to be But if we take them collectively in Parliament as they are one body and represent the whole Ki●●dome then these very Authours resolve in their forequoted words