A DISCOVRSE OF THE FORBEARANCE OR THE PENALTIES Which a Due REFORMATION REQUIRES BY H. THORNDIKE One of the Prebends of Westminster Church LONDON Printed by J. M. for James Collins at the Kings-Head in Westminster-Hall 1670. THE PREFACE ARistotle and Experience teacheth us that no Positive Law can provide for all the Cases that may arise upon the Terms of it Religion indeed in General is a Moral Vertue But the true Religion that bringeth Salvation is a Positive Constitution of Gods Grace requiring the Condition of Christianity to qualifie for the Promise of life everlasting But upon several Terms heretofore under the Law of Nature and Moses and now under the Christian Faith The Church of Christ in all Ages hath been constrained to provide new Decrees and seek new Laws for the quenching of new Heresies and Schisms They that ever hoped to do that by an Act of Comprehension which the Act of Uniformity hath not done would have proved themselves deceitful Workers They would have made many Breaches by stopping of One. That which I am able to propound I confess is rather possible than probable For were it so far advanced as to be inacted for a Law of the Kingdom I should never believe that it would take effect unless the Faith and the Laws of the Catholick Church might be received to give Bounds to all emergent Disputes No more then I can believe that the Reformation will ever prevail after one Breach in Germany after another since in the United Provinces and these last here amongst us unless we unite our selves upon the same Principle Whether I have said enough to prove it well grounded or not I must refer that to Judgment But he that excuses me not in such an innocent Proposition as this How would he have Almighty God to excuse me if having attained this Resolution I should not declare the Consequence of it in our present Case Especially considering the Duty which the Law of the Land justly and necessarily imposes upon all of my Order to Reduce Recusants to Church For there are now two sorts of Recusants And those that are bound to reduce them must do it upon such Reasons that by reducing the one sort they drive not the other sort from Church Let them that have more skill then I shew how it can be done without imploying my Principle I that am resolved it can by no other means be done must declare my Resolution though I were to suffer for it Which from a Christian Kingdom I cannot do One thing I have adventured upon my own Head Granting that the Government of the Church was Regular till after the sixth General Council And so that the the Acts of the Church before that time are effects of it But that is not to say that the Corruption of the Church which we Protest against and Reform began not till that time Religion began to be corrupted earlier in some and later in other Points But this Corruption had not the force of Law till after that time And especially till the Vsurpation of the See of Rome It is enough that there is difference Visible in any Point between that which was from the beginning according to the Scriptures and that which was when the Reformation was attempted That which can be made out hereof will serve to cramp both sorts of Recusants That which cannot should be no cause of difference He that reduces the sense of the Scripture within the Faith and the Laws of the whole Church warrants the Penalties of Recusants Let the Laws do their Office and make it a Disgrace to be out of the Church And then we may expect to see the Blessing of God upon his own Ordinance But without restoring Discipline without Canons and Laws to restore it without the Office of the Synods in providing those Canons let no man think that temporal Penalties will serve to do the business For though there can be no reason sufficient for violating the Vnity of the Church yet if the dissatisfaction that hath caused it resolve into a defect of the Laws it can no more be ended without redressing the Laws then a Disease can be cured without taking away the Cause of it Errata PAg. 10. lin 13. r. Prophesies sent since the Ground o Salvation was declared is p. 17. l. 5. the Church read this Church p. 20. l. 27. the Article of this Church r. the Law of this Kingdom p. 22. l. 3. Christians r. Christian p. 25. l. 27. decay r. decays p. 36. l. 1. or to be believed to r. to be believed or to p. 42. l. 29. Laws r. Law p. 63. l. 20. the best r. their best p. 99. l. 28. Churches r. Church p. 109. l. 28. making r. and making p. 113. l. 5. Christs r. Christ p. 121. l. 12. which r. of whom p. 125. l. 21. to come to r. come to p. 151. l. 17. Idolaters r. Idolatry p 153. l. 18. Invocations r. Invocation p. 263. l. 16. these r. those OF THE FORBEARANCE OR PENALTIES Which a due Reformation requires CHAP. I. The Case in which forbearance is pretended for weak Consciences IT is a long time that the forbearance due to tender Consciences hath been alledged for the means to restore Unity in this Church And certainly were the Case stated in which S. Paul prescribed it to the Church of Rome that so it might be drawn into Consequence in our Case the Scripture must needs produce that which would be of advantage for Peace without prejudice to Truth But when the bare Phrase of Scripture is tossed up and down in the discourse of them that care not to understand either the Reason upon which it is grounded or the Effect to which it sorteth no marvel to see the decay of Religion proceed from the abuse of the Scripture We need not the Heresies of the Primitive Times even the abominable Villanies of the Gnosticks to tell us what irreligious pretenses may be set forth in Scripture Phrase Our own Fanaticks would furnish sport enough with the fooleries which they pretend as from Gods Spirit because they can deliver their non-sense in the Phrase of Scripture could such irreligious madness move any thing but the compassion and lamentation of Christians It is enough for my purpose that unless the Precept of the Apostle be limited to that consequence which the reason of the Case will produce the two-edged Sword of the holy Scripture may prove an edge tool to cut their shins with who take upon them and have not the skill to handle it For the state of the Case to which S. Paul speaks I will say no more at present but this That he prescribeth only to the Church of Rome at that time when the care was not to loose the Jews by winning the Gentiles to be Christians There could then be no question of establishing a National Church by the Law of a Kingdom which Church and which Kingdom shall by that Law reform that which it protesteth
these terms of our Reformation what shall we plead with a good Conscience to bring Recusants to Church It will be said that the Pope is Antichrist and the Church of Rome all I Idolaters that there can be no question of abandoning Idolatry and Antichrist But is there no question of holding the true Faith of continuing a true Church parting with Idolatry and Antichrist Were Papists Idolaters and the Pope Antichrist a thousand times the Reason and the Rule of Reforming the Church would be where it is and will require that it be so Reformed as to continue a Member of one Catholick Church as it was unreformed saving the Unity which cannot be held without the consent of those that will not be reformed Not that I grant the pretense of Idolatry and Antichrist Or that I intend to dispute against it at present being a question too large to be voided by so short a Discourse as this But that to ground our Reformation and Salvation upon the interpretation of Prophesies is a thing without the compass of Reason to do And also a departure from that Plea upon which our Reformation is hitherto stated Having therefore placed my business and spent my time in considering the Controversies which the Reformation hath occasioned Because the Disputes we have among our selves concern nothing but how far we are to depart from the Church of Rome I thought my self tyed in Conscience to publish the Resolution I had attained both under the danger that might be expected from the late Usurpation and at His Majesties happy return So that the publishing of my Opinion in the Case at this time in dispute is but a declaration of the consequences that have ensued because a palliative cure hath not served the turn If they that break Unity in the Church have liberty to plead for their their Conventicles which they Vsurp against Law why should not my Opinion expect a favourable Audience Protesting before God that how advantagious soever I think it to the Salvation of Souls yet I do not desire that it should take place but by the free Act of this Church and Kingdom CHAP. III. That the Rule of Reformation is the Catholick Church IN the first place therefore I hold my self bound in Conscience upon this occasion freely to declare to my Superiours That there is no Power in this Church and Kingdom to reform it self in matter of Religion but only by that Form and to that Form which may appear to have been held by the whole Primitive Church before the Corruption came in which we pretend to Reform And the reason hereof is unanswerable being immediately grounded upon the Article of our Creed whereby we profess to believe one Catholick and Apostolick Church For if there be such a thing in the world then must there be one Catholick Faith the Profession whereof is the condition of Communion with it And one and the same Laws the violating whereof is the forfeiture of the same And here I crave leave to call all Canons all Customs of the Church whether concerning the Rites of Gods Service or other Observations whether delivered in writing or received by silent Vse and Practice by one and the same general name of Laws of the Church Only that I may be the better understood Being therefore well assured that the Church cannot be Catholick but it needs must be Visible Because it cannot be Catholick till it may be Visibly distinguished from Heretick and Schismatick both I must also infer that it can never be Visible till it become Catholick That is the only way to justifie that which hath been always pretended that this Church is the same that it was before Luthers time For as the Church had never been Catholick had it been confined to one Nation as the Synagogue was So I do believe that it had never been called Catholick had there not been Heresies and Schisms before it was so called It had been One Church of all Nations by virtue of the Conversion of the Gentiles When Heresies sprung up as Tares among the Corn then was it called Catholick for distinctions sake It was visible that the true Faith was spread all over Heresies and Schisms prevailed but here and there where they were raised So if an Heretick or Schismatick were asked the way to the Catholick Church he durst not have shewed the way to his own saith S. Austin Nor is it a question to be asked a Christian why the true Church should be Catholick The answer being so obvious that it was Aposiolick Say why the Faith preached by the Apostles prevailed why the Communion setled by their Authority whereas Heresies and Schisms were known but here and there and you have said why the True Church was Catholick We that profess the Reformation are agreed that this provision of Gods goodness is no Promise of God against mans malice That corruption may become Catholick for the present Age though not from the Apostles This is the common ground of Reforming the Church If the measure and bounds which it limiteth were also common all our divisions were at an end Nor can any private Spirit expounding the Scripture without these bounds derogate from it It is a sufficient prejudice against any Interpretation of Scripture that it standeth not with the Faith and with the Laws of the Primitive Church S. Paul challengeth the prophets at Corinth to shew themselves Spiritual men by submitting to his Orders Having said that the Spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets and inferring that all their Spirits are to be subject to his being an Apostle 1 Cor. XIV 32 36 37. The same is the Case to the Worlds end the promise of our Lord Behold I am with you to the worlds end being made to the Apostles and to all that should be Christs Disciples and learn of the Apostles to do all that he hath commanded Mat. XXVIII 19 20. For who can think he continueth in the Doctrine of the Apostles departing from their Authority in any thing subject to their Authority Or what is not subject to their Authority excepting that which our Lord had commanded before he gave them their Authority His own Commands being the condition of Salvation Their Authority the means provided to inable us to attain it by observing and learning his Commands So as it is Heresie to depart from the Faith which they preached so is it Schism to depart from the Authority which they left in the Church till the Worlds end Were not the Catholick Church a Warrant to particular Churches they could not Reform themselves without the consent of the Whole But seeing abuses are and were Visible at the Reformation it is necessary to grant that particular Churches and secular Powers by whose Laws they subsist may restore that which may appear to have been decayed But it is also necessary to say that Reformation is the Restoring of that which was not the introducing of that which was not CHAP. IV. That
the Church is no further Visible then it is Catholick ANd thus shall the Church become Visible according to the Will and Ordinance of God which being in decay by the malice of man though not Invisible yet must needs become hard to be seen at least to the purpose of Gods goodness For by the discourse premised it appears why it pleased God to provide that the true Church should be Catholick That is to say that when it was so easie to discern the True Church from all that pretended being indeed Hereticks or Schismaticks the simplest were left without excuse if they made a wrong choice Which if it be true how can it be in the Power of any Church or of the secular Powers that maintain it being bound to continue a Member of the whole Church to introduce that for Reformation which cannot appear to be restored but may seem to be innovated Which how should it be done without owning that ground of Reformation which I have delivered and by consequence those bounds which the said ground inferreth And I do very well believe that none of those who decline Conformity with the Church would have the Face to deny this had they to do with the now Missionaries of the Church of Rome For it would not serve their turn in answer to them to plead that the Pope is Antichrist and the Papists Idolaters having Reason to challenge that God hath founded a Visible Church It would be absolutely necessary to plead though the goodness of God hath instituted a Visible Church yet that by the malice of man it might be and is become Invisible for the difficulty of finding Salvation by it though absolutely Visible because Salvation might always be had in it It is easie for him that would answer them with a good Conscience for Truth and not for Victory to maintain the Church to be Visible so far as the Faith and the Laws thereof continue Visible But that so far as the Faith and Laws thereof may be disguised from that which was from the beginning so far it may and is to be said that the Church which by Gods Ordinance is and ought to be Visible by humane disorder is become Invisible Which being said it follows immediately that as all estates in the Church are obliged in their several qualities to do their utmost that the Church may be Visible the Salvation of all Christians requiring them to Resort to the Communion of the Church which they believe to be Catholick so there is no other way to make it Visible but to restore the Faith and the Laws of the Church that from the beginning made it Visible And therefore no Christian Church or State can have Power to Reform the Church any otherwise then by restoring that Faith and those Laws which the Church may appear to have had from the beginning It would be Sacriledge and Vsurpation upon the Faith which God hath built his Church upon and upon the Laws which either the Apostles have delivered to the Church or inabled the Church to deliver to posterity to introduce any thing else for the Reformation of the Church Which seeing it must needs bind over the Church and Kingdom to the wrath of God as either destructive or at least prejudicial to the Salvation of the People must needs bind over him that hath this opinion to the same if upon so just an occasion he should forbear to publish and to plead it as he may without offense And therefore I take leave to blame all those who declare in behalf of this Church that it departeth and separateth it self from the Church of Rome For seeing it hath been granted in and by this Church ever since the Reformation that there is and always was Salvation to be had in the Church of Rome as a true Church though corrupted I am very confident that no Church can separate from the Church of Rome but they must make themselves thereby Schismaticks before God though before the Church they cannot be condemned for such because the Church of Rome the Authority whereof must needs be ingredient into the Sentence cannot oblige any Body to stand to the Authority which it so abuseth For if God have tied all Churches to Communion with all Churches how should it not be Schism to profess Separation from a true Church And it is every whit as easie to say that we intend only to Reform our selves and that the Separation hath come to pass by the rigour of the Church of Rome Excommunicating those that Reform themselves without her leave CHAP. V. How far this Rule is owned by this Church HEre it will perhaps be demanded whether or no the Law of this Land make this the Rule of the Reformation which we Profess And my Answer is that in effect and by consequence it doth For by maintaining the three Creeds to be part of the Service wherewith we glorifie God by Professing the Catholick Faith and by maintaining the four Councils whereby both the Faith and the then Canons of the whole Church are established it doth in effect maintain the Primitive Church not only till that time but beyond it For seeing it is evident that the fifth and sixth Councils are but appendances of the Fourth tending only to maintain and inforce the decree of it how can it be doubted that the Article of this Church receiving all Councils that have decreed according to the Word of God receiveth and inacteth those which tend only to inforce the Fourth which it owneth for decreeing that Faith which the Word of God teacheth Besides the prayers for the prosperity of the Catholick Church whereby we prove our selves no Schismaticks to the See of Rome when we repay the Curses of it with our prayers Besides that Injunction of Edward the VI which obligeth all Preachers to expound the Scripture according to the Consent of the Ancient Fathers Which as no man can say why it should not be in force So had it been in force we need not have come to the question now on foot And indeed it is in effect that which I demand For it will be found that the Consent of the Fathers is not to be had but in the common Faith and in those Laws which the whole Church either enjoyned or allowed particular Churches So that to expound the Scriptures according to the Consent of the Fathers is to expound them within those bounds and to trouble the heads of Christian people with nothing that is without the same As if their Salvation could be concerned all being safe within those bounds Here I must take notice that the reason why the Church Catholick is to be held may be miskenned if it be extended to all that is called Christians and not limited to that which maintaining the Faith violateth not the Vnity of the Primitive Church If the profession of Christ and Christianity were enough to make men members of the Catholick Church why should not Socinians and Anabaptists belong
was setled upon that Faith and those Laws that are now as Visible as the Laws of England from which present Titles are derived can be Visible must needs have that Right from which the Right of all present Soveraignties must be derived Because the Church whose Interest concurreth with the Interest of them all in the same matters is always One and the same and ought so to be from the first to the second Coming of Christ And that answers any difficulty that may be objected when any Law of any Roman Emperor or other Christian Prince or State seems to infringe the Canons of the Church For the Protection of the Crown being of such advantage as it is both for the inlarging and maintaining of Christianity It is enough that the Church can continue One and the same Visible Church by one and the same Visible Laws Though the force and effect of them be hindred now and then here and there by some Acts of Secular Power which in some regards may advance the Church as much as they hinder it in others It was necessary for the Crown under Henry the VIII to vindicate the Supremacy from the pretense of the Popes Secular Power which had been on foot divers Ages afore And therefore not to have to do with him that pretended to assoil the Subjects of Princes whom he should excommunicate of their Allegiance till they might owne him upon terms consistent with the Protection they owe their People And it was still more necessary under Edward the VI. when the Reformation was inacted which they knew well enough that the Pope would not endure But when the Right of the Crown in Church-matters is declared by Law to be the same which the Kings of Gods Ancient People and the first Christian Emperors did exercise the ground of that Interest and the bounds of that Interest which the Church must challenge if it will continue a Church are declared to be the same which the Faith and the Laws of the Whole Church from the beginning do allow CHAP. XXIII Of restoring and reforming the Jurisdictions of the Crown and of the Church in Ecclesiastical Causes ANd this makes the Reformation of our Ecclesiastical Laws as easie as it is visibly the cure of all distempers in Religion among us It is in brief this That the Jurisdiction which may by this means appear to the Kingdom to be invested in the Church by Gods Law be by a Law of the Kingdom restored to the Clergy To the Bishops in chief then to the Chapters of their Cathedrals and to their Archdeacons And to these not without the Assistance of the Principal Clergie of their Respective Jurisdictions the Judges of the Ecclesiastical Courts continuing the Kings Judges as they are now by Law to manage the Interest of the Crown in all the Rights thereof resumed into the Crown by the Acts of Supremacy according to the Roman Laws in those Ages of Christendom which passed before the Usurpation of the See of Rome had taken place If it be said That it is not Visible when those Usurpations took place I shall allow all the time which that Code of the Canons contains that Pope Adrian sent to Charles the Great In whose time there can be no pretense of Usurpation upon the Temporalties of Princes by the See of Rome This Code is yet read under the Name of Codex Canonum Ecclesiae Romanae I have commended the Justice and Wisdom of that Commission which was designed under Henry the VIII and Edward the VI for the qualities of Persons limited by it But I do not think it possible for any Commission to Reform the Alterations introduced by the Popes Canon Law after that time in one Kings Raign with that circumspection which is requisite The Jurisdiction which the Church challenges by Gods Law can not be distinctly stated with more satisfaction to all Interests preserving that of Religion then by a Commission so qualified The Interest of the Kingdom in preserving the study of the Roman Laws hath always been thought considerable But how shall the study of them be maintained if the Authority of them be not maintained Or how shall that Authority be maintained but by adopting them into the Law of the Kingdom in matters necessary to be provided for by Law but not provided for by the native Law of the Kingdom Or what provision can there he by the native Law of the Kingdom for those Causes which for so many hundred years before the Reformation the Popes Canon Law had sentenced by the Authority of the Kingdom There is an Interest of Religion in Matrimonial Causes in Testamentary Causes in Causes arising upon Elections of Corporate Clergie in Causes of Dispensation in Canons in Causes of Tithes in divers sorts of Causes besides those which the Power of the Keys in the Discipline of the People and the Correction of Inferior Clergy occasioneth Let me not say that it were Barbarous for a flourishing Kingdom in a flourishing Age for all other Learning to reduce the Tryal of them to the Arbitrary Verdicts of Juries Who can never understand the Grounds upon which the matter of Fact is to be stated when I can so clearly say that there can be nothing more like to meer Tyranny then Arbitrary Justice nor Justice more Arbitrary then where it is manifest that there can have been no other Law provided because the Canon Law hath been hitherto used As for those Causes which are proper to the Church as rising from the Constitution of it how can it stand with Religion and Reformation in Religion which we pretend to try them otherwise then by those which the Kingdom shall be satisfied by such a Commission that they are by Gods Law capable of Authority to do it And the Interest of the Crown and of the Subjects which it is bound to protect shall be secured when provision is made by adopting the Roman Laws for managing the Rights of the Crown resumed by the Act of Supremacy within those Bounds which the Roman Laws maintained before the Usurpation of the See of Rome It cannot be denied that the Popes Canon Law which the Law of the Land hath already adopted so far as it contradicteth not the Law of the Land provideth for many things not provided for by the Primitive Canons within the Compass of the Roman Laws And it would be too much rashness to recal that Adoption and to leave so much matter to arbitrary Justice rather then retain a Provision which the Law and Religion professed by the Kingdom owns not the Original of though it owne the matter it hath adopted For whatsoever shall prove by time and tryal to hinder the Reformation which we pretend thus to ground and thus to bound the faults that shall be found by experience must open the way of mending it because the Cure must be as particular as the disease is And upon these Terms it can be no dishonour to the Kingdom and to the Reformation
to have been decayed and depraved in the Faith and Laws of the then present Church We have a Reformation established by certain Laws of the Kingdom which all men know how great a part of the Kingdom declineth because the See of Rome disclaimeth it And therefore the question is what that Law should be that may oblige Recusants to the Reformation which we profess For division in Religion can never so deprave mens senses as to punish them for refusing that which they are not obliged to embrace And yet who would have the Kingdom to establish that Reformation which they would not have it inact by competent Penalties Now such is our Case that since the afflictions which this Nation hath been visited with have revived the humor of departing into Conventicles Independents and Fanaticks decline Communion with this Church as much as Recusants And if we will speak properly to be understood according to the Laws we must distinguish them by the addition of Popish or Fanatick Recusants Whereupon the question arises what Penalties are competent to the one to the other whether the same or diverse For as there can be no Law if there can be no Penalties to enact it with So there can be no Penalty unless the Legislative Power be Judge of the Cause why the Parties decline the Law and may secure them in Conscience that they ought not to decline it Can any Christian Power punish the disobeying of that Law concerning which it cannot secure the Consciences of them that obey But there is a further difficulty in our Case in regard of the Presbyterians Who whatsoever they may do or may have done since the time of disorder have always pretended to the service of the Church so far from disclaiming Communion with it For grant they do usurp the liberty of Conventicles to hold their People at the more distance from being reduced to Law their pretense is not to be obnoxious to the Law for violating it but to make the Law obnoxious to themselves by reforming it Suppose we them then comprehended with the Clergy whose Authority is included in the present Laws in the same Priviledge of ministring in and to the Church Our Case is not stated till we consider that which all Pulpits ring of that no Religion stands to be the Religion of the Kingdom The Case was like to come to this when Cromwell first usurped For then it began to appear that this would be the fruit of his Course in maintaining all Parties in the Religions which the licentiousness of the War had allowed them to exercise The Laws having recovered possession and the dispute remaining by what Penalties to be exercised whether any or none whether those that are or what others I need not say that there is any Profession of Atheism which could never be professed among the very Gentiles This I say that whosoever favours it will necessarily shelter himself under the Law professing that which it maintaineth And therefore that it is to come into the state of our Case in which Forbearance is demanded for tender Consciences how it is to be limited That those who have No Religion if any such should be may not have the Benefit of it So the question now in hand is of the same consequence as if it were demanded upon what terms the Reformation of the Church is to be stated For whatsoever comes to debate the question will always be how far we ought to depart from the Church of Rome The other part of the question What Penalties the Reformation duly stated may or is to be inacted with will depend upon this for the greater part of it For what can render the subject of this Kingdom liable to Penalty for not obeying the Law which our Reformation is established with but that he is first bound in conscience to embrace the Reformation and to do the duty of a Christian according to it Only what Penalties and how great or or how grievous it is to be or may be inacted with This will further require the reason which makes it the duty of Christian States to joyn in Reforming the Church CHAP. II. That a private Person may be obliged to declare in it THis is that which obliges a private person as I am to declare his Opinion when so great a concernment of his Conscience is at stake For who could ever think the Reformation could stand were not the Clergy obliged as the Law obliges them every one in his place to reduce Recusants to the Church Or how should they either do this or stand obliged to do it if the Reason upon which the Reformation and the Law by which it is stated proceeds inable them not to convince them that they are bound in Conscience to embrace it These hundred years hath the dispute been on foot Very nigh so long it is since the Bull of Pius V. acquited the Subjects of the Kingdom of their Allegiance to Q. Elizabeth The Government being then jealous of that Party those that had appeared before in the Troubles of Francford to challenge a share in the Government of the Church thought this the time to set their pretensions on foot It is to be seen by Camdens Annals that when the Recusants first forbore coming to Church about that time did this Party begin to be known by the name of Puritans Ever since that time did these embers lye raked up in deceitful ashes still most appearing when the State was most solicitous till at length the Party appeared in Arms against the late King and prevailing in those Arms became divided into those several Parties which remain united in the Plea for tender Consciences For the Laws recovering by His Majesties return the same embers which it was then thought fit to rake up again in the same deceitful ashes upon the first rub have flamed out again to demand Law to justifie that which they usurp by way of Fact against Law Both pleading that their Consciences cannot be subject to any Law in the Case and that Christianity hath not wherewith to clear up those doubts against which if they proceed they are damned It must therefore needs be said that the present Laws have been justified beyond all contradiction that may pretend any thing to be commanded by the Laws which Gods Law forbids So that the demand of new Laws seems to be a demand that the Conclusion be contradictory to that which is inferred by the Premises And what should Weakness demand of Reason that is to give Law but inconsequence Only let not inconsequence in Reason draw mischief upon us in effect We have hitherto answered the demand Where was your Church before Luther That it was where it is The same Church Reformed which was decayed and depraved afore Neither can we ever answer otherwise till we renounce our Creed and deny that One Holy Catholick Church which we must be saved by believing and by continuing in the Vnity of it Depart we once from