thereof as how he should be crowned with thornes that they should giue him vineger to drinke how the vaile of the temple should be rent darknes should couer the earth for three houres he himself should rise the third day yea she setteth down the very name of the Messiah Iesus Christ. These prophecies came not of the diuell for these mysteries without all doubt were not known to the euill spirits for they were not fully reuealed to the Angels theÌ„selues before the coÌ„ming of Christ. Eph. 3.10 Wherfore we conclude thus that as the gift of prophecying is no sure signe that they are meÌ„bers of the Church elected of God which are endued with it as Christ saith Math 7.22 that many which had prophecied in his name in the day of iudgemeÌ„t should be refused Balaam is set forth as an example of a false Prophet wicked maÌ„ Ep. Iude. 11 so neither is this gift an infallible mark of the Church of God whersoeuer it is fouÌ„d To the second part concerning this miraculous gift which our aduersaries pretend to haue we answere 1. They are but fables which they bring for if al that is reported of Saint Bernard in his life of his miracles and prophecies were true neither S. Paul nor any of the Apostles were to be compared vnto him for number of miracles such casting out of diuels out of men women and children healing of strange diseases foretelling of thinges to come the Gospell almost hath not stranger things of our Sauiour Christ. As for Saint Francis you may gesse by this what spirit he was of that prescribing to his followers a certaine strict order of liuing as to wear no girdle to goe barefoote and such like he called it regulam euangelicam the rule of the Gospell belike making himselfe an other Christ and so bringing in another Gospel for to all Christs Disciples Christs Gospelâ— is sufficient 2. But if they haue any prophecies of credit which they can shew they are such as are reported of Pope Siluester the 2. who had warrant from the diuel that he should not die before he sung Masse in Ierusalem and so it came to passe for hauing sung Masse in a chappell so called he immediately dyed Not much vnlike to this was that of king Henry the 4. who ended his life in a chamber at Westminster called Ierusalem as he had an olde prophecie Edward the 4. also was tolde that his successours name should begin with G. which was the cause of George the Duke of Clarence death his owne brother but the diuelish prophecie notwithstanding tooke place for Richard Duke of Glocester was king after him In like manner Valence the Emperour had a blind prophecie that one should raigne after him whose name began with Theod. which made Theodorus to rebell against him but so it came to passe in deede that Theodosius was Emperour after him Such blinde prophecies we denie not but the popish Church hath had many which as you see doo cause murder sedition and bloodshed but other good prophecies comming of GOD wee knowe them not to haue any 3. Wee denie not but that there haue liued some amongst them in their Church which in those dayes were counted Prophets and Prophetisses as Hildegardis anno 1146. likewise Briget Catherine Seuensis whom Bellarmine reckoneth vp amongst others that wrought miracles cap. 14. but concerning these we wil answere as the Iesuite doth for Sibilla a Prophetisse amongst the heatheÌ„ that she prophecied as touching such matters as should fall out to the Church for a testimonie of the faith of the Christians And so to bee counted herein a Prophetisse of the Church rather than of the heathen cap. 15. so wee say that if those three abouenamed were Prophetisses they were of our Church and not theirs for they prophesied of the decay of their Church and raising vp of ours Hildegardis first prophecied of the beginning of Friers and of their destruction saying that in the end when their gifts and rewards ceased they should goe about their houses like hungrie and madde dogges drawing in their neckes like doues Briget prophesied of the Church of Rome that it should be as a body condemned of a iudge to haue the skinne flayne off and the flesh to bee cut in peeces Catherine de Senis speaketh of a reformation of the Church such a renouation of Pastors that the onely remembrance thereof sayth she mâ—keth my spirite to reioyce in the Lord. All these things we see nowe accomplished the sects of Friers in many places put downe the Popish iurisdiction cast out a notable reformation to be wrought in the Church Our aduersaries I thinke haue not to reioyce in these prophecies neither haue any great cause to chalenge them for their Prophets But I will help them a little and bring to their remembrance a notable Prophetisse of theirs in king Henry the 8. dayes which was one Elizabeth Barton a Nun commonly called the holy mayd of Kent who beeing instructed by the Friers fayned as though she had many reuelations she prophecied that if the king proceeded in his diuorce then in question betweene him and Q. Catherine that hee should not be king one yeare no not one moneth But GOD bee thanked hee liued almoste twenty yeares after that by whom many worthy things were wrought for the good of Christs Church This prophetisse was afterward iustly met withall and worthily suffered for her demerites with all her accomplices amongst the which Fisher B. of Rochester was one who thereupon was imprisoned and forfayted his goods to the King If they will bragge of their Prophets let not the holy mayd of Kent be forgotten in any wise 4. Now lastly because they shall not outface vs with a vaine brag of Prophets I will shew what prophesies the Gospell hath beene adorned withall Was not Iohn Husse a Prophet who thus sayd at his death centum reuolutis annis deo respondebitis after an hundred years you shall giue account of this your doing vnto God Likewise Hierome of Prage post centum annos vos omnes cito I cite you all to make answere after an hundred yeares Which prophesie of theirs tooke effect accordingly for both these holy men suffered martyrdome about anno 1416. and iust an hundred yeares after anno 1516. the Lord raysed vp Luther who indeede called the Pope and his doctrine to account Was not Sauonarola a Prophet that sayd one should passe ouer the Alpes like Cyrus who should destroy all Italie and is it not so come to passe for neither Cyrus nor whosoeuer els could haue more layde wast the popish Italian Church then the word of God hath done and the liuely preaching of the Gospell Walter Brute prophecied that the temporalities should be taken from the Clergie for the multitude of their sinnes this Walter liued in king Richards dayes the second Bilney that constant martyr and faythful seruant of God prophecied that many Preachers should
third of Iohn the last Chapter of Marke We differ not then in the new Testament vnlesse it be concerning the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews which ouer aduersaries stoutly affirme to be S. Pauls which we deny not neither certainly can affirme it seeing in some Greeke copies it is left out and in the Syriacke translation But it mattereth not who was the author seeing we receiue it as canonicall for the title is no part of the booke and so neither of Scripture and we receiue many bookes in the old Testament the authors whereof are not perfectly knowne So then all the question is about the Apocrypha of the old Testamēt they are called Apocrypha because they are hid and obscure not because their authours are vnknowne for as I sayd we knowe not by whom certaine Canonical bookes were written neither are they so called because of some vntruthes conteined in them contrary to Scripture as the most of them haue for it foloweth not that euerie booke which hath no vntruth or lye should straight wayes be taken for Scripture but they are therfore iudged and called Apocrypha because they were not in former time receiued into publike and authentick authoritie in the Church neither to be alledged as grounds of our faith though they may be read for example of life and may haue other profitable vse But the Canonicall Scripture onely hath this priuiledge to geue rules of faith and thereupon it hath the name that we may be bold to beleeue and ground our faith vpon the canonicall holy Scripture which is the onely word of God Wherefore out of this number of Canonicall Scripture we exclude all the books afore named therfore let not the reader be deceiued that although they be ioyned in one volume with the Scripture to think that they are for that of the same authoritie and credit with the rest first we will shew one reason in general and afterward come vnto the particular books in order 1 All canonical scripture in the old Testament was written by Prophets we haue a sure word of the prophetes saith S. Peter 2.1.19 and S. Paule Rom. 16.26 calleth them the Scriptures of the Prophets But none of those bookes aforenamed of Tobias Iudith and the rest were written by the Prophets for they were all written since Malachies time who was the last Prophete as the Church complaineth Psal. 74.9 There is not one Prophete nor any that can tell vs how long Ergo none of these bookes are canonicall 2 All the canonicall bookes of the old Testament were acknowledged of the Iewes and Hebrues for they were then onely the Church of God and where should Scripture be found but in the Church to them sayth S. Paule were committed the oracles of God Rom. 3.2 But the Iewes receiued none of these books for none of them are written in the Hebrue toung neither did they receiue them with the like authoritie as other bookes of Scripture and this some of the Papists can not denie Ergo thy are not Canonicall 3 There is no Scripture of the old Testament but it hath approbation of the new for as the Prophetes beare witnesse to Christ so he againe doth witnesse for the Prophets and therefore it is a true proposition of Caietane though he be controlled and checked of Catharinus an other Papist for it that there is no Scripture which was not either written or approued by the Apostles but in the whole new Testament you shall not find one testimony cited either in the Gospel or the Epistles out of any of the Apocrypha as out of other bookes of Scripture therefore hauing no approbation of the new Testament we conclude they are none of the old 4 It shall appeare in the seuerall discourse of the particular bookes that there is somewhat euen in the bookes themselues to be found that barreth them from being Canonicall OF THE BOOKE OF BARVCH The Papistes THis is their best reason for the authoritie of this booke because Baruch was Ieremies scribe and therfore Baruch can not be refused vnlesse also we doubt of Ieremie Bellarm. lib. 1. de verbo Dei cap. 8. The Protestantes THis booke was neither written by Ieremie nor Baruch first because it is in Greeke if either Ieremie or Baruch had written it it is most like they would haue written in Hebrue Secondly the phrase and manner of speach sheweth that it was neuer written in Hebrue for in the 6. Chapter in the Epistle of Ieremie it is said that the Israelites should be in captiuitie seuen generations that is 70. yeares but it can not be found in any Hebrue booke that generation is taken for the space of 70. yeares OF THE SEVEN APOCRYPHAL Chapters of Esther The Papistes ONe of their chief Arguments besides testimonies and authorities which would make to great a Volume is this which is common also to the rest of the Apocrypha they are read in the Church haue bene of auncient time Ergo they are Canonicall I aunswere that it is no good argument Hierome saith plainly Legit Ecclesia sedeos inter Scripturas Canonicas non recipit Praefat. in lib. Solomon The Church indeede saith he readeth them yet for all that they are not Canonicall And Augustine was wōt to read vnto the people the Epistles of the Donatistes and his aunsweres vnto them Epist. 203. The Protestantes THe most of our reasons against the authoritie of the 7. Chapters added to Esther for of the 10 first Chapters which are found in the Hebrue we make no doubt at all are drawen from the matter of the booke it selfe 1 In the second of the Canonicall Esther ver 16. it is said that the conspiracie of the two Eunuches against the king was in the 7. yeare of Assuerus but in the 11. Chap. ver 2. of the Apocryphall Esther we read that Mardocheus did dreame of this conspiracie in the secōd yeare Bellarmine aunswereth that both are true for the dreame was in the secōd yeare the conspiracie in the seuēth so belike there was fiue yeares betweene But in the 11. Chapter it is said that Mardocheus was much troubled about that dreame and the next night after his dreame the conspiracie was enterprised 2 The true history of Esther saith that Mardocheus had no reward at that time of the king cap. 6.3 but the forged storie saith that at the same time the king gaue him great gifts which can not be meant of that great honor which afterward was bestowed vpon Mardoche for then Haman being hanged the same day could worke him no despite wheras the forged story saith that after the king had rewarded him then Haman began to stomach him because of those two Eunuches 3 Againe the storie which is added was written many yeares after Mardoches Esthers death vnder the raigne of Ptolomaeus Cleopatra as it appeareth cap. 11.1 it is not like therefore to be a true storie Bellarmins ridiculous cōiecture is this that there were two stories
writtē in Hebrue of Esther the one cōpendious short which we now haue the other more large which might be translated by Lisimachus there spoken of cap. 11. whose translation we now onely haue the originall being perished What goodly gesses here be to make Canonicall Scripture what neede two bookes of one thing If the first were written by the spirite of God and so were Canonicall what neede a secōd the spirite of God vseth not to correct his own writings and this can not be that ample and large storie imagined being shorter and not so full as the first 4 Besides the false storie saith that Haman was a Macedonian Cap. 16. v. 10. the true storie saith he was an Agagite or Amalekite cap. 8.3 how can these two agree Nay the forged booke saith that Haman would haue destroyed the king so cōueyed the kimgdome of the Persians to the Macedonians which could in no wise be for the kingdome of the Macedonians was not yet spoken of and so it continued in small or no reputation till Phillippus the father of Alexander who was many yeares after Vide plura Whitach quaest 1. cap. 8. De Scripturis 5 In the latter Chapters that is repeated which was set downe in the former part which argueth that the story was not writtē by one mā and it is not like he would write one part in Hebrue another in Greeke If any say as the Iesuite saith that this part was in Hebrue and being translated into Greeke was lost why was one part rather lost then the other and was it not as like to be preserued in Hebrue as in Greeke These are verie bare and suspicious coniectures OF CERTAINE CHAPTERS annexed to Daniell THere are three parcels ioyned to Daniell the song of the 3. childrē the storie of Susanna of Bel and the Dragon in the vulgare Latin which are not any part of Canonicall Scripture 1 They are neither extant in Hebrue at this day nor are like to haue bene translated out of Hebrue into Greeke but compiled first in Greeke and therfore not written by Daniell for v. 54.58 of the storie of Susanna where one of the Elders saith he saw her vnder a Lentiske tree the other vnder a prime tree he vseth a certaine paronomasie or allusion vnto the Greeke wordes which cā not stand in the Hebrue as of the tree 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he saith the Angell of the Lord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall cut you in two and so of the tree 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall deuide thee in two As if a mā should thus allude in English thou wast vnder the prune tree the Lord shall prime thee This allusion is not in the Hebrue as the learned haue verie well obserued but onely in the Greeke 2 The time is vncertaine whē this storie should be done It was in the captiuitie for Susanna dwelt in Babilon but Daniell could not then be so young a child as the storie maketh for he was carried away in the first captiuitie with Iehoiakim as it is Dan. 1. And Ezechiell that liued about that time doth speake of the great prudence sage wisedome of Daniel Ezech. 28.3 and ioyneth him with Noah Iob. cap. 14. All this proueth that Daniell could not bee so very a babe in the beginning of the captiuitie as the storie maketh him 3 In the story of Daniell it is said that he was 6. dayes in the Lyōs den but the true storie saith he was there but one night cap. 6. The Iesuite aunswereth he was twise in the Lyons den or rather he thinketh there were two Daniels the one of the tribe of Iuda which was that great Prophet the other of Leui which was the principall in those two stories of Susanna and of Bel and the Dragon But this is a poore shift to inuent another Daniell whom the Scripture neuer knew and if it were so why are all their actes ioyned together as if one Daniell had done and write them all OF THE BOOKE OF TOBIE 1 THis booke is not found in the Hebrue in the which toung all the oracles of God were kept Ergo it is worthelie doubted of 2 Our aduersaries them selues confesse that in Hieromes time it was not receiued for Canonicall The Iesuite aunswereth that it might be doubted of before it was determined in a Generall Councell to whom saith he it appertaineth to define of Canonicall Scripture As though this were not a greater doubt whether a Coūcell hath any such authoritie to determine which books ought to be receiued for Canonicall for Canus a Papist maketh question of it Lib. 2. cap. 8. And the Iesuite him selfe saith that the Church can not Facere Canonicum de non Canonico make a booke not canonicall to be canonicall but onely to declare those to be Canonicall which are so in deed Wherefore the Papistes take to much vpō them to make this boke within the Canon being of it selfe not Canonicall and so adiudged by antiquitie 3 He that readeth the booke it selfe shall finde that both the stile and the matter is not such as beseemeth Canonicall Scripture read Tremell in cap. 3. ver 8. cap. 13. ver 15. OF THE BOOKE OF IVDITH AN escpeciall Argument against this booke is that the historie can not be assigned to any time 1 It is pretie sport to see how the Papistes doe moyle them selues about this point and can not agree amongest them selues Some hold that this storie fell out after the captiuitie in Cambises time as Lyranus and Driedo some in Darius Histaspis raigne as Gerardus Mercator some would haue it before the captiuitie in Sedechias time as Genebrard some in Iosias time as Iohan. Benedictus but the Iesuite confuteth them all and bringeth the storie to Manasses raigne but he hath also mist the cushin 2 It appeareth that this story could not be after the captiuitie for we read not of any Nabuchadneser afterwards for the kingdome was translated frō the Assirians to the Persians and Meedes Againe it could not be before either in Iosias time Sedechias or Manasses first because in the 5. Chap. v. 18. it is said that the temple had bene destroyed and cast downe which could not be in any of those kings raignes It is but a shift of Bellarmines to say those words were foysted into the text it is rather to be thought that the Iesuite is put to his trūps not hauing els what to answer Secōdly Iudith being at this time in the flower of her age and liuing afterward many yeares till she was 105. yeare old all which time and many yeares after her death the booke saith in the last Chapter the land had rest this can not agree with Manasses time for within 40. yeares or not much aboue the land fell into great trouble straight after Iosias death Where then is this long time of rest And the Iesuite that still groūdeth vpon impossibilities and vnlikele-hoods that Iudith was at this time 40. yeare old which was saith
abridgeth the story of one Iason a Syrenean Lib. 2. cap. 2. v. 23. Who was an Heathen but the spirite of God vseth not neither needeth to borow of prophane writers He saith that this worke was not easie but paineful to him but required sweating and watching v. 26. But to the holy writers of Scripture though their own labour and diligence was not wanting yet was not the worke hard or molestious vnto them Lastly the author faith he writeth for pleasure recreation of the Reader and craueth pardon if he haue not done well Lib. 2.15.39 But to read for pleasure is no end of Scripture neither doth the spirit of God vse any excuse either for matter or manner Our aduersaries say that S. Paule likewise confesseth that he was rude in speaking 1. Cor. 11.6 We aunswere he so saith because the false Apostles so gaue out of him not that he was so indeed and yet in that place S. Paule doth not excuse him selfe for his not sufficieÌ„t haÌ„dling of his matter as this author doth neither is that speach of S. Luke any thing like for there the Euangelist doubteth not to say that he had attained to an exact knowledge of all things Vpon these premises we conclude that these bookes of the Machabees are not Canonicall nor to be taken for any part of holy Scripture though we denie not but that there may be some profitable vse of them for the storie AVGVSTINES IVDGEMENT OF the bookes called Apocrypha FIrst generally of them all thus he writeth Quas itaque Scripturas dicimus nisi Canonicas legis Prophetarum de vnit Eccle. 16. We acknowledge no Canonicall Scripture of the old Testament but the law and the Prophetes but none of the Apocrypha were writteÌ„ by any of the Prophets Againe he saith Omnes literae quib Christus Prophetatus est apud Iudaeos sunt Psal. 56. All the bookes which do Prophesie of Christ were kept amoÌ„gest the Iewes but none of the Apocrypha were written in Hebrue Ergo. Concerning the story of Bel and the Dragon he calleth it a fable de mirabilib lib. 2. cap. 32. Of the same credite is the storie of Susanna The booke of Iudith was not saith he receiued in the Canon of the Iewes De Ciuit. Dei 18.26 The two bookes of Ecclesiasticus and the wisedome of Solomon are onely said to be Solomons propter eloquij nonnullam similitudinem because of some affinitie and likenesse of the stile De Ciuit. Dei 17.20 So he thinketh that Solomon was not indeed the author of them how then can that booke be Canonicall which geueth it selfe a false title being called the wisedome of SolomoÌ„ and was neuer compiled by Solomon THE SECOND QVESTION CONCERning the authenticall and most approued Edition of the Scriptures The Papistes WHereas it is confessed that the Hebrue Edition of the old TestameÌ„t error 2 is the most auncient in the which toung the Scriptures were compiled by the Prophets that the new TestameÌ„t was writteÌ„ in Greeke by the Apostles and the Euangelistes yet our aduersaries do generally hold as it was decreed in the TrideÌ„tine Chapter Sess. 4. Decret 2. That in all sermoÌ„s readings disputations controuersies the vulgare Latine traÌ„slation should be taken for authentike before the Hebrue or Greeke and that no man should presume vpon any occasion to reiect it or appeale from it The Protestantes WE do truly affirme that although there are diuerse EditioÌ„s of the old Testament besides the Hebrue and some of them verie auncient as the translation of the Septuagints compiled by 72. auncieÌ„ts of the Iewes at the instigation of Ptolomeus Philadelphus king of Egypt 300. yeares before Christ and after Christ there were other translations in Greeke made by Aquila Synomachus Theodotion and others also a Chalde Paraphrase compiled by the Iewes last of all diuerse Latin translations the which as Augustine saith in his time were so many that they could not be nuÌ„bred yet of al the rest the Hebrue being the most auncient and the mother of the rest and freest from corruptions ought to be receiued as most authentike And for the new Testament though there be a Syriacke translation verie auncient yet the Greeke ought to be preferred being the same toung wherein the Apostles and the Euangelistes wrote to be the onely authentike copie As for the Latin translation of the Bible we are able to proue it to be verie corrupt and faultie and therefore not authentike The Papistes Argumentes 1 THe Latin Church hath vsed the vulgare Latin translation for the space of 800. or 900. yeares and it is not like that the Church all this while was without the true Edition of the Scriptures Ergo it is onely authenticall We aunswere First by this Argument it foloweth that this vulgar Latin being generally vsed was preferred before other Latin translations which were at the first in great number not that therefore it is more authentike then the Hebrue in the old and the Geeeke in the new Testaments Secondly there were other Churches besides the Latin all this while as amongest the Greekes famous congregations and Churches that be it in the Latin Church the vulgar translation was reteined being erroneous yet the whole Church continued not in that errour which were not so tyed and bound to the Latin translation Thirdly if men all this while knowledge decreasing and a way being in preparing for Antichrist were negligent in correcting and amendiâ—â— the common translation this is no good Argument to make it authenticall â— As the Hebrues had an authentike translation in their own toung and 〈…〉 in theirs why should not the Latin Church haue it also authenticall in Latin We aunswere First it is no good reason because the Lord did consecrate the Hebrue and Greeke toung and therein would haue his word written that therefore he would or should also haue made the Latin as well authenticall as they Secondly if the Latin Church must haue an authentike translation why should not other countrys likewise haue their authenticals The Armenians had the Scriptures of old translated by Chrisostome the Sclauonians by Hierome the Gothes by Vlphilas why should not these also as well be authenticall and so looke into how many toungs the Scriptures should be translated so many authenticall translations should there be 3 They say that all other translations which are come forth since are erronious and much differ amoÌ„gest them selues Aunswere First this is no reason to prefere it before the Hebrue and Greeke though it were better theÌ„ all other traÌ„slations Secondly they charge vs falsly that our traÌ„slations are dissonant and erronious for their disagreement is not in such substantiall points where any of them do swarue from the originall we allow them not and yet there is not the meanest of them but may iustly compare with theirs yea and be preferred before it Thirdly if their traÌ„slation were so pure as they say Beza him selfe maketh it he would not haue set forth a
the time of Esdras till Christ and in our Sauiours time the Scriptures were not in the vulgare toung but onely in the Hebrue which the Iewes vnderstood not after the captiuitie Ergo it is not now necessary to haue them in the vulgare toūg That the people vnderstood not Hebrue the Iesuite proueth out of the 8. of Nehemiah where it is said that Esdras did expoūd the law to the people because they vnderstood it not We answere that the text saith cleane contrary that he read the law before the people that vnderstood it v. 3. and they might geue the sense though the people vnderstood the language Concerning the places obiected out of the Gospell to proue the Iewes spake another language thē Hebrue as it appeareth by those speaches Marc. 5. Talitha cumi Math. 27. Golgotha which sauour not of the Hebrue toung we answere that although they spake not pure Hebrue but many straunge wordes were vsed yet they vnderstood the Hebrue for why els doth Christ bid the people to search the Scriptures And they were not the Iewes but the Romane souldiers that vnderstood not the voyce of Christ vpon the Crosse saying he called for Elias 2 The Apostles saith the Iesuite wrote their Epistles onely in Hebrue or Greeke and not in the vulgare tounges of the natiōs to whom they preached Ergo it is not necessary that the scriptures should be in the vulgare toung We answere First it had bene an infinite labour for the Apostles to haue left their writings in euery language neither was it necessary seeing out of the original they might be trāslated into euery language Secōdly they preached the same things vnto the Gētiles in their own toūgs which they afterward left in writing Thirdly the Greeke toūg wherein they wrote was vniuersally knowen and few countryes were ignorant of it especially in the East parts 3 There is no cause say they why the Scriptures should be translated if it be for the vnderstanding of the people they vnderstād them not being translated neither We aunswere many things they may easely vnderstand and for the harder places they are nearer the vnderstanding of them being translated then before for then they haue two great lets the toung vnknowen and the obscure and hid sense now they need not to labour for the toung but onely for the sense 4 The Scriptures are occasion of offence and heresie being not right vnderstood Ergo. First because many surfet of meats and drinkes it is no reason that sober men should be forbidden the vse of them no more for heretikes wicked mens sakes ought the people of God to be barred from Scripture Secondly more haue perished by ignorance in Scripture then by misunderstanding it and the Scripture was ordained of God to meete with offences and to confute heresies 2. Tim. 3.15 Wherefore these men make them selues wiser then God that thinke the Scripture is an occasion of those diseases for the which it is apppointed a remedie The Protestantes WE do beleeue and hold that it is requisite expedient and necessarie for the Scriptures to be vttered and set forth in the vulgare and commō speach and that none vpon any occasion ought to be prohibited the reading thereof for knowledge and instructions sake and that Christian Magistrates ought to prouide that the people may haue the Scriptures in their mother knowē toung Wherefore great wrong was offered to the people of England that diuerse 100. yeares till king Henrie the eight could not be suffred to haue the Scriptures in English And how I pray you did the Papistes storme when as Tindals translatiō came forth some affirming that it was impossible to haue the Scriptures trāslated into English some that it would make the people heretikes others that it would cause thē to rebell Fox pag. 117. col 1. What fowle and shamefull slaunders were these For the vulgare translations of Scripture we reason thus 1 It is Gods commandement that the Scriptures should be read before the people that they may learne to feare God Deut. 31. vers 11.12 The people are commanded to write the law vpon their gates and in their houses to conferre and talke with their children and teach them the law Deut. 6.6.7.8 And our Sauiour biddeth the people search the Scripture Iohn 5. v. 39. Ergo what God hath commaunded no man ought to prohibite or forbid the people therfore must not be kept from reading of Scripture 2 Without Scripture there is no faith faith is necessarie for all people Ergo the knowledge of the Scripture that faith cōmeth by the scriptures read Iohn 20.31 these things are written that ye might beleeue Iesus Christ to be the sonne of God Againe the weapons of Christiā men are not denied to any whereby they should fight against their spirituall enemies but the word of God is a speciall part of our harnesse and a principall weapon euen the sword of the spirite Ergo. 3 The Gospell may be preached in the vulgare toung as our blessed Sauiour and the holy Apostles taught the people Ergo the word of God may be read and writtē in the vulgare toung The proposition our aduersaries graunt that Sermōs may be made in the vulgare toung but it foloweth not say they that therefore Scripture should be in the mother toung Rhem. 1. Cor. 14.8 But I pray you how can the preacher alledge Scripture in his Sermō vnlesse it be recited in the vulgare toung or how should the people know they preach the word vnlesse they may compare their doctrine with Scripture as the Berrheans did Act. 17. 4 We haue the practise of the Church of God in times past for our warrant for in Chrisostomes time the people had vulgare translations whereupon he exhorteth them to get them Bibles or at the least the new Testament the Actes of the Apostles the Gospels Homil. 9. Epist. ad Coloss. We heard before that the Armenians Sclauonians Gothes had the Scripture in their own language so many hundred yeares ago in England king Alured translated the Psalter a copie whereof was found in Crowland Abbey called S. Guthlakes Psalter as M. Lābert witnesseth and Bede our learned country man translated S. Iohns Gospell Fox pag. 1115. col 2. The Rhemistes also confesse that more then 300. yeare ago the Italians had the Bible translated and the French men aboue 200. yeares ago Praefatan Testam 4. sect Why should not the people of God haue the same libertie now freely to read the Scriptures as they haue had in times past 5 Let vs heare Augustines opinion Lectiones diuinas saith he in Ecclesia sicut consuestis audite in domib vestris relegite I would haue you both to attend vnto the publike readings in the Church and in your house to read ouer againe the holy lessons but how could the people read them at home if they were not in their vulgare toung AN APPENDIX OR PART OF THIS question concerning publike prayers and diuine seruice in the
resurrection of Christ. Bellarmine aunswereth first that the Pharisies were priuiledged not to erre onely till the cōming of Christ. We replie againe First after Christ was come they sate in Moses chaire and Christ biddeth they should be heard Math. 23.2 if they erred not afore neither could they now for they were not displaced out of Moses chaire but the truth is they neuer had any such priuiledge not to erre Secondly if the Pharisies were now prone to error then by our aduersaries owne confession they ceased to be the church Ergo the church was not now visible for in them it was not and the Apostles fled from Christ and shifted for them selues how could then the church be visible to the world Secondly the Iesuite aunswereth concerning the Apostles First the Apostles were not yet entred into their office and Bishoprike but onely appointed to it and therefore they might erre We replie againe First they were not onely appointed Apostles but partly already they had exercised their Apostleship for they were sent forth to preach the Gospell and had power and commission to worke miracles and heale diseases Math. 10 how then is not the Iesuite ashamed to say that they were not yet Pastors nor Apostles Secondly if the Pharisies erred and the Apostles erred then all the world was in error Ergo by their saying at this instant there was no church vpon the earth which is a great absurditie for the church erreth not they say Secondly saith the Iesuite the Apostles erred not in faith they were reproued for not beleeuing the resurrection which beliefe because they had not yet receiued they could not loose it We reply First though they had not erred in any materiall point yet if there were any error at all in them it is sufficient for our purpose that they erred it is manifest for they fled away from Christ. Secondly he excuseth them for their infidelitie concerning the resurrection because this faith they had not yet receiued But had not Christ I pray you often instructed them of this matter and if this were no such error in them then Christ was to sharpe in reprouing them for their infidelitie Thirdly it appeareth that they wholly were deceiued concerning the Messiah Luke 24.21 the two Disciples say they trusted that it had bene he that should haue deliuered Israell see then what weake aunswers these are did these felowes thinke that their gloses should not be examined or that their dreames should be taken for oracles 2 The church of the Iewes erred before our Sauiour Christes comming Ergo the true church may erre The proposition is proued In the time of the raigne of good kings they did offer sacrifice vpon hill altars but onely to the Lord which was an error 2. Kings 12.3.14.4 The feast of the Passeouer was not kept so precisely according to Gods word at any time before no not in the raigne of the best kings as it was in the 18. yeare of Iosias raigne 2. King 23.22 The feast of Tabernacles had not bene so solemnly and truly kept from the dayes of Iosua as it was in Nehemiahs time Nehem. 8.18 Ergo all this while the church of the Iewes erred somewhat in the externall worship of God Fulk Ephes. cap. 5. Sect. 4. 3 Augustine saith Quomodo erit Ecclesia in isto tempore perfecta sine macula ruga cuius mēbra non mendaciter confitentur se habere peccata How can the church be perfect in this life without spot or wrincle whose members do truly confesse that they are not without sinne Ergo the church sinneth and is imperfect and why not subiect to error But in the Councell of Basill it was denied as ye heard that the church could sinne THE SECOND PART WHETHER THE visible Church may fayle vpon the earth The Papistes error 17 THey hold that it is impossible that the visible church should vtterly fayle vpon the earth and fall from God but that there shall alwayes be a visible and knowen church vpon the earth hauing a perpetuall succession of Pastors and Doctors where the true worship of God shal be preserued and kept Bellarmin lib. 3. de Eccles. cap. 13. 1 These and such places of Scripture they stand vpon Math. 16. the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it Math. 28. I wil be with you to the end of the world Psal. 88. his throne shal be as the Sunne and endure as the Moone Ergo the visible church shall not fayle vpon earth Bellarmin We aunswere that these places must be vnderstood of the catholike and vniuersall church whereof we denie not but euery true particular church is a part This church is the spouse of Christ this church shall not perish this is the kingdome of Christ with this church will he alway be present to the end of the world we denie not but that the inuisible church shall continue vpon the earth so long as the world endureth Secondly those places are vnproperly vnderstood of the visible church for therein are both good and bad how thē can that be the spouse of Christ where there are many infidels and wicked ones which haue not espoused themselues vnto him how can it be called his kingdome whereas it is not of all acknowledged But in the true catholike church all and euery one are espoused to Christ all and euery one haue the kingdome of God within them as it is Luke 17. ver 21. 2 They do abuse that place of S. Paule Ephe. 4.11 he gaue some to be Apostles some Euangelistes some pastors and teachers for the gathering together of the Saints Ergo the church shall alwayes be visible till all the Saintes are gathered together Bellarmin cap. 13. Rhemistes Ephes. 4. Sect. 5. We aunswere this place proueth that the church hath neuer wanted pastors and teachers for the continuance of the truth neither shall euer be without them as the Lord said by the Prophet Isay. 59. ver 21. My spirite which is vpō thee my words which I haue put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor the mouth of thy seede for euer We therfore denie not but that in all ages yea in the most ignoraunt times of Poperie God raised vp faithfull teachers vnto his church although they were not mitred and croziard Bishops neither could shew any outward pompe or boast of any glorious successiō Such were Gulielmus de S. Amore Arnoldus de noua villa an 1240. Berengarius Ioachim Abbas in the time of Innocentius 3. Wikclef Bruto Swinderby Badby and others about anno 1400. with many which were not knowen to the world for the truth neuer in any age wanted witnesses By the continuance of the truth and right faith we gather that there haue bene alwayes faithfull teachers though not notorious to the world and shal be but who they were and where they liued what pompe what authoritie they were of it is not materiall to know wherefore an outward visible succession
and the rest iudged corruptly there remayned yet another remedie A generall Councell might haue beene called where the iudges and the cause might further haue been tried and examined their iudgement if there were cause reuersed Whereby it appeareth say the fathers of Basile that not onely the sentence of the Pope alone but also the Pope with his Bishops ioyned with him might be made frustrate by a Councell Here the Iesuite paltreth saith that a matter determined by the Pope in a particular Councell may be called againe in question by the Pope in a general Councel First what neede that seeing that a particular Councel hauing the Popes authoritie as the Iesuite confesseth cannot erre Againe Augustine saith vbi cum ipsis iudicibus causa possit agitari In the which generall Councell the cause and the former iudges of the which Miltiades was one may bee tryed and examined so that the Pope himselfe might be adiudged by the Councell and not the cause onely Vpon the Premisses we truely and iustly conclude that the Pope is and of right ought to be subiect to generall Councels THE EIGHT QVESTION OF THE CONditions and qualitie of generall Councels The Papists THeir vnreasonable and vnequall conditions are these and such like as followe 1 That the Pope onely should haue authoritie to summon call proroge dissolue and confirme Councels and he onely to bee the iudge president and moderator in Councels or some at his appoyntment 2 They will haue none to giue voyces but Bishops and such as are bound by oath of alleageance to the Pope 3 That the Councell is not bound to determine according to Scripture but to follow their traditions and former decrees of Councels 4 That no Councell is in force without the Popes assent yea the Pope himselfe say they by his sole authotitie may abrogate and disanull the canons and decrees of Councels These and such other conditions the Papists require in their Councels So they wil be sure that nothing shall be concluded against them The Protestants OVr conditions which we would haue obserued and kept in generall Councells are these most iust and reasonable 1 That the Pope which is a party should be no iudge for it is vnreasonable that the same man should be both a partie and a iudge and therefore he ought not to meddle with calling and appoynting Councels with ruling or moderating them seeing it is like he would worke for his owne aduantage 2 That such a time and place be appointed as when and where the Churches of Christendome may most safely and conueniently meete together not at such a time as Paulus the third called a Councell when all Princes in Christendome were occupied in great affaires nor such a place as he thē appointed at Mantua in Italie whither Princes could not come without perill of iourney and danger of life being penned in by the Popes garrisons Thus Pope or Bishop Leo for then there were no Popes writ to Martianus the Emperour to haue the Councell remoued from Calchis to Italie but hee preuayled not So Pope Eugenius would haue dissolued the Councell at Basile and brought it vnder his owne nose 3 We would haue it a free Councell where euery man might fully vtter his minde and that there should be a safe conduct graunted to al to come and goe which the Pope for all his faire promises is vnwilling to doe as it was flatly denyed to Hierome of Prage in the Councell of Constance to whome it was answered that he should haue safe conduct to come but none to goe Neither if they should giue a safe conduct were they to bee trusted for it cannot bee forgotten to their perpetuall infamie that they brake the Emperour Sigismunds safe conduct graunted to Iohn Husse in the Councell of Constance saying that faith was not to be kept with Hereticks 4 That the matter should not bee left wholie to Bishops and Prelates but that the learned of the Clergie and Laitie besides should giue voices seeing the cause of religion is common and concerneth all But most of all that nothing bee carried with violence or popularitie against the Scriptures but euery matter determined according to the truth thereof Such a Councell wee refuse not nay wee much desire which is the true generall Councell that is not generall where all men cannot speake no freedome nor libertie graunted for men to vtter the trueth where all thinges are partially handled and are swayed by one mans authoritie Wherefore the Rhemists slander vs in saying wee raile vppon general Councels annot in Act. 15.10 and that we refuse them 2. Galath 2. Whether wee or they are enemies to true generall free holy indifferent Councels let all men iudge THE FOVRTH GENERALL CONTROVERSIE CONCERNING THE BISHOP OF ROME COMMONLIE CALLED THE POPE THis great and waightie controuersie conteineth tenne seuerall questions 1 Whether the regiment of the Church be Monarchicall 2 Whether Peter were the Prince of the Apostles and by our Sauiour Christ made head of the Church 3 Whether Peter were at Rome and dyed Bishop there 4 Whether the Bishop of Rome be the true successor of Peter 5 Concerning the primacie of the Bishop of Rome sixe partes of the question First whether hee haue authoritie ouer other Bishops Secondly whether appeales are to be made to Rome Thirdly whether the Pope be subiect to the iudgemēt of any Fourthly whether he may be deposed Fiftly what primacy he hath ouer other Churches Sixtly of his titles and names 6 Whether the Bishop of Rome may erre and likewise whether the Church of Rome be subiect to error 7 Of the spiritual iurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome two parts First whether he can make lawes to binde the conscience Secondly whether other Bishops doe receiue their iurisdiction from him 8 Of the Popes temporall iurisdiction two parts First whether hee haue authoritie aboue Kings and princes Secondly whether he be a temporal prince 9 Of the prerogatiues of the Pope 10 Concerning Antichrist nine parts First whether Antichrist shall be some one singular man Secondly of the time of his comming Thirdly of his name Fourthly of his nation and kinred Fiftly where his place and seate shall be Sixtly of his doctrine and manners Seuenthly of his miracles Eightly of his kingdome and warres Ninthly whether the Pope bee the very Antichrist of these in their order THE FIRST QVESTION WHETHER THE Regiment of the Church be Monarchicall error 36 WE are not ignorant that the Philosophers made three formes and states of gouernement in the commonwealth the Monarchical when as the principall and soueraigne power rested in one as in the King Queene or Emperor as Rome sometime was ruled by Kings and many yeares after by Emperors Secondly the Aristocratical when the commonwealth was gouerned by an assembly and Senate of nobles as the Romanes had a long time their Consuls and Senators Thirdly the Democratical which is the popular state when the people and multitude bare the greatest sway as
the Pope or any else bee the head the Church is his bodie which Bellarmine is a shamed to graunt yet Pope Athanasius doubted not to call populos mundi partes corporis sui the people of the Worlde the partes of his bodie Againe if he be the head hee must doe the duetie of an head which is to knit and ioyne the parts together and to giue effectuall power to euery part Ephes. 4.16 Where the Apostle alludeth to the gouernement of mans bodie in the which the parts receiue a double benefite from the head the knitting and ioyning together by sinewes which come from the head and sense and motion also giuen to euery part from the head but it were blasphemie to thinke this of the Pope that he giueth any influence to the Church If they answer he is but a ministeriall head Christ is the principall We say againe that although these things are principallie wrought by the principall head yet they must bee done instrumentally or Ministerially by the Ministeriall head or else it is but a rotten head such an one as the Wolfe found in a caruers shop as you knowe the fable is a goodly head saith hee but without wit or braine If Christ performe all the duetie of the head himselfe then is there no other head if the Pope doe somewhat that belongeth to the head tell vs what is it If hee will bee an head and doe nothing surely hee must needes bee a brainelesse and witlesse head 2 It is a daungerous and impossible thing to haue the charge of all Churches committed to one man GOD alone is sufficient to beare that burthen Saint Paule saith who is sufficient for these things No pastor or minister that is but set ouer one flocke or parish is sufficient to preach the worde much lesse is any one man sufficient to gouerne the whole Church Bellarmine answereth first Saint Paul saith of himselfe that hee had the care of all Churches 2. Corinth 11.28 We replie againe first then belike Saint Paul was vniuersall pastor and not Peter Secondly wee must consider that the Apostles were sent to all the world their calling was not limited when they had planted the Gospell in one place they did take care also for other places but now there is no such Apostolicall calling Thirdly Paul did not beare this burthen alone but the Apostles and Euangelists were his coadiutors and fellow-helpers Secondly sayth he why may not the care of the whole Church bee committed to one man as well as the gouernment almost of the whole world was appointed by God to Nabuchadnezzar Cyrus Augustus seeing the gouernement of the Church is easier then the ciuill and politike regiment We replie First wee neuer reade of any that had dominion ouer the whole world as the Pope chalengeth to haue ouer the whole Church which is dispersed throughout the world Secondly these great and large Monarches are saide to haue been giuen of God Dan. 2.37 Not that this large dominion and vsurpation ouer other countries so much pleased God for the people of God the Israelites in their most flourishing estate neuer had such soueraigntie ouer other countries but by voluntarie subiection as in Solomons dayes 1. King 4.21 the Kings round about brought presents vnto him But because the Lord turned and vsed this their large and mightie dominion to the good of his Church for Cyrus was a defender of the Church against all that bare euill will thereat and the large Empire of the Romans serued very commodiously for the propagation of the Gospell Thirdly the Iesuite sheweth his skill when he saith that the regiment of the Church is easier then the gouernement of the common-wealth Whereas there is no greater and waightier burthen vpon earth then is the charge of soules It seemeth the Pope taketh his ease finding the care of the Church to be so easie and pleasant a thing in deede as he vseth it it is no great matter for hee preacheth not but giueth himselfe to ease and idlenes and all princely pleasures But England hath found by experience and so did that worthie and famous Prince King Henry the eight that there was neuer matter so hardlie compassed as was the reformation of the Church and the suppression of idolatrie and superstition in this lande Augustine saith Nemo nostrum se episcopum episcoporum constituit aut quasi tyrannico terrore ad obsequēdi necessitatem collegas suos adigit de Baptis 2.2 None of vs doth count himselfe a Bishop ouer other Bishops or taketh vpon him after a commaunding manner as tyrants vse to enforce his fellowes to obey Ergo by his iudgement all Bishops are of like and equall authoritie THE SECOND QVESTION WHETHER PETER were the chiefe and Prince of the Apostles and assigned by Christ to bee head of the Church The Papists THis our aduersaries doe stiffelie maintaine that he was not only head of the error 37 Church but of the Apostles also Bellarmi lib. 1. de pontif cap. 11. And the Rhemists doubt not to call him the chiefe and Prince of the Apostles 1. Corinth 9. ver 5. 1 Wee will omitte manie of their waightie arguments as out of these and such like places I haue prayed for thee Peter that thy faith should not fayle cast forth thy net into the deepe I will make thee a Fisher of men Peter payed toll for Christ and himselfe Peter drew the net to the land full of great fish Peter onely drew out his sword in the defence of Christ. Ergo Peter was the Prince of the Apostles and head of the Church ex concil Basilien Fox pag. 673. Such other goodlie arguments our Rhemists doe make Peter did excommunicate Ananias and Sapphira he healed the sicke by his shadow Ergo he was the head of the Church Annot. 5. Acts se. 5.8 Againe Peters person was garded with foure quaternions of Souldiours Act. 12.4 the Church prayed for him Ibid. sect 4. Paul nameth Cephas 1. Cor. 9.5 Ergo hee was chiefe of the Apostles Are not here goodlie arguments thinke you To these reasons I neede make no other answere then that which our learned countrie man dooth in his Annotations You must saith he bring better arguments or else children will laugh you to scorne Fulk Annot. Act. 5. sect 5. Let vs see therefore if they haue any better arguments 2 They take that to be a maine inuincible place for them Matth. 16.18 Thou art Peter and vpon this rocke will I builde my Church Ergo the Church is built vpon Peter To make this argument the more strong they set vnder it diuerse props First why did Christ giue Peter this name more then to any other of the Apostles to call him Peter of Petra a Rocke but to shew that hee was appointed to be the foundation of the Church Bellarmine cap. 17. Wee answer Christ hereby signified that Peter should bee a principall piller of his Church as the rest of the Apostles Ephes. 2. He chaunged also the
yet by the way the Iesuite is deceiued that thinketh it probable that the Popes particular person cannot fall into heresie here you see Marcellinus fell into Idolatrie Liberius subscribed to the Arrians consented to the condemnation of Athanasius as testifieth Ierome confessed by Nicolaus Cusanus and Alphonsus de castro both papists Iuel pag. 164. defens Apolog. Honorius 1. consented to the heresie of Sergius Bishop of Constantinople who was a Monothelite and held that there were not two wills or operations in Christ and so destroyed the two natures That Honorius was a Monothelite Melchior Canus a papist confesseth hee was condemned for an heretike in the 6.7 and 8. generall synodes Bellarmine answereth that the Councels are corrupted or they might be deceiued in iudgement as in a matter of facte or that Honorius onely misliked the speech to say there were two willes in Christ and not the thing See what poore shiftes heere bee to make Honorius no heretike and yet all will not be Pope Stephen the sixt tooke vp Formosus body and cut off two fingers of his right hande and buried him againe in a lay-mans Sepulchre Then followed Rhomanus the first Theodorus the second Iohannes the ninth and restored Formosus with his decrees iudging him to bee lawfull Bishop After them commeth Sergius the third who tooke vp the body agayne cutte off the head and cast it into Tiber. The Iesuite answereth that Stephanus and Sergius erred onely in a matter of fact A goodly cloke to couer the filthines of their Ghostly fathers withall But by your leaue a little doe you not holde it to bee an article of fayth to beleeue the Pope to bee heade of Christes Church Then was it an article of fayth to hold that Formosus was right Pope for at that time there was no other Ergo Stephanus and Sergius erred in fayth defining the contrary All that you can say is this that it was not yet determined and decreed for an article of fayth so to beleeue see I pray you these mennes fayth is pinned vpon Popes sleeues Why masters the rule of fayth is certaine you cannot make new articles of fayth now but onely declare and explane those that are But doe you not thinke that these iollie Popes that would rake the dead out of their graues for their holines might deserue at GODS hand to haue a priuiledge not to erre in fayth Siluester the second was a Necromancer and a Coniurer and therefore fallen from the fayth Bellarmine sayth hee was a good man and all are fables and lyes that are tolde of him and because hee was cunning in Geometrie that ignorant age straightwayes iudged him to bee giuen to Necromancie Thus wee may take the Iesuites worde if wee will But the storie is reported by authors of better credit then Bellarmine as Iohannes Stella Platina Petrus Premonstratens Nauclerus Antoninus Fox pag. 167. Anastasius was a Nestorian heretike whose heresie was this that there are as two natures so also two persons in Christ Alphons de castro lib. 1. de haeresib cap. 4. Celestinus is reported by Laurentius Valla a Canon of Rome to haue been a Nestorian heretike de donation Constantin Now commeth in Pope Hildebrand or rather Heldebrand for hee was a very brand of hell fire called Gregory the seuenth Of whome Benno writeth thus that hee poysoned sixe Popes his predecessors to make himselfe a way to the popedome that hee was a Coniurer a raiser of Diuels and in his rage hee cast the sacrament into the fier But sayth Harding our countrey man though vnworthily Benno was his enemie and wrote of displeasure and Bellarmine thinketh that some Lutherane was the author of the booke which goeth vnder the name of Benno who was Cardinall in this Hildebrands time But Benno onely doth not thus report of him he was openly twise for the same crimes condēned in Councel first at Wormes thē after deposed in the Coūcel at Brixia in Italy Pope Clement 3. elected to succeed him And the said Gregory died in exile of whom Antonius reporteth that before his death he repented him of his insolencie shewed toward the Emperour Henrie the 4. whom with his wife and young child bare foote and bare legd hee had caused three dayes together in extreame frost and colde to waite at his palace gates at Canusium before he could speake with him Yet this Hildebrand for all these insolent cruell and dishonest partes is commended by our papists Harding Bellarmine and other for a deuout Catholike man who did all things of a zeale to the Church By this you may iudge whome our aduersaries count a Catholike man Pope Iohn the 22. affirmed that the soules lie in a traunce till the day of iudgement and feele neither payne nor ioye Harding and likewise Bellarmine answere that this was an error but no heresie Yet in the Vniuersitie of Paris it was condemned for heresie as Gerson writeth Againe sayth Harding he held it only as a priuate opinion But Massaeus sayth that Pope Iohn preached this heresie and sent out preachers to maintaine it Hee was condemned sayth he with his error by the diuines of Paris in the presence of Philip the French King before he was Pope when he was yet but a priuate Doctor But the contrary is proued by B. Iewel that he was Pope 13. yeares before Philip was king Iuell defens apolog p. 667. Pope Iohn the 23. denied the life to come and the resurrection of the body And this heresie was openly obiected against him in the Councel of Constance Bellarmine and Harding before him answere that he was not the rightful Pope for there were three at that time and therefore might erre But Platina sayth that he was chosen at Bonoma by the consent of all the Cardinals ex Iuel pag. 671. Lastly Pope Eugenius the 4. was condemned and deposed as an heretike in the Councel of Basile Where the Iesuite hath no other answer then by condemning the Councel as Schismatical to acquite the Pope Lib. 3. de pontif cap. 14. By these examples it may appeare to the indifferent reader that it is no rare nor impossible thing for the Popes of Rome to erre yea become playne heretikes And as for that shift of the Iesuite that they are no longer Popes whē they openly begin to teach heresie this is as Alphonsus sayth In re seria verbis velle iocari to dallie with words in a serious and earnest matter And so euery Bishop shal be as well priuiledged as the Pope and cannot fall into heresie for why may we not say that a Bishop when he is knowen to bee an heretike ceaseth to bee Bishop any longer as the Pope is no longer Pope and so as long as he remayneth Bishop cannot possiblie bee an heretike Surely this is but paltrie and beggarly stuffe 4. Augustine is not a whit afrayd to say Episcoporum literas per sermonem sapientiorem cuiuslibet in eare peritioris per aliorum
dayes and three dayes and an halfe should signifie the same time Secondly with much better sense are these times applied by our learned and painfull countreyman Master Fox to the great persecution vnder the Emperours which continued 294. yeeres which time is mystically signified by 42. moneths taking euery moneth for a sabboth of yeeres And the rest of the numbers agree hereunto for 1260. dayes make three yeeres and an halfe that is moneths 42 and three daies and an halfe make houres 42. So taking euery houre in the dayes and euery moneth in the yeeres for a sabboth of yeeres there ariseth 294. yeeres which was the iust time of the persecution from the death of Iohn Baptist vnto the end of Licinius the tyrant persecutor This account I say better agreeth with the truth of historie then their imagined computation Thirdly if it should be taken as they expound it for so short a time then very little of the prophecie in the Apocalyps is yet fulfilled which we doubt not but is most accomplished as it may appeare in comparing the visions reuealed in that booke together And agayne there is no prophecie beside this of 42. moneths which can bee applyed to the great persecution in the Primitiue Church wherefore it is not like that the Lord would leaue his Church without some comfort in forewarning them of those great troubles which immediatly ensued But if these prophecies which are wrested by the Papists did noâ— foretell of those persecutions then are they vtterly forgotten in that booke which is not like it being the greatest triall that euer the Church had 4 We say then that wee are not curiouslie to search into times and seasons which the Lord hath not reuealed Onely this wee learne that the time of affliction being set downe by dayes and monethes the faithfull should hereby bee comforted knowing that the time of their trouble is limitted of God and is but short in respect of the kingdome of Christ. 2 The Lord sayth Math. 24. that those daies shall be shortned lest no flesh should be saued But how can the time bee short if it should last some hundreds or a thousand of yeeres Bellarmin cap. 8. Rhemist annot Matth. 24. sect 6. Answere First that place vers 22. is properly vnderstood of the calamitie of the Iewes which if it had continued any longer the nation of the Iewes had bin vtterly destroyed Secondly yet notwithstanding the raigne of Antichrist is short in respect of the eternall kingdome of Christ yea the whole time from his ascension vntill his comming agayne is counted but short Apocal. 22.20 I come quickly and S. Peter sayth That a thousand yeeres before God is as one day and one day as a thousand yeeres 2. Pet. 3. 3 Christ preached but three yeeres and an halfe therefore Antichrist shal be suffered to preach no longer Answere First yet Christ was thirtie yeeres old when he began to preach and shewed himselfe before though not so openly as when he was twelue yeere old he disputed with the Doctors in the temple he was also acknowledged for the Messiah in his natiuitie If Antichrist then must in this respect be correspondent to Christ he must also be knowne to be thirtie yeeres vpon earth before he be fully manifested Secondly though Christ himselfe preached no longer yet he sent his Apostles who preached many yeeres after we doe not therefore oppose the person of Antichrist whom we denye to be a singular man to Christ but the kingdome of the one to the other Now by their owne reason it followeth that because the kingdome of Christ endured many yeeres and yet doth that therefore Antichrists kingdome must likewise Other demonstrations the Iesuite hath to prooue that Antichrist is not yet come as because the Gospell is not yet preached to all the world cap. 4. Bellar. Helias and Henoch are not yet come who are certainly looked for cap. 6. There shall bee a most grieuous and terrible persecution vnder Antichrist which is not yet past cap. 7. But these arguments shall bee answered in another place towards the end of this worke when we come to speake of the appearing of Christ to iudgement The Protestants THat Antichrist shall raigne but three yeeres and an halfe we take it for a meere fable and a very popish dreame whereas on the contrarie side wee are able to shewe both that Antichrist is alreadie come and hath tyrannized in the world these many yeeres 1 We will make it plaine by demonstration that Antichrist hath been in the world many yeeres agoe by the propheticall places of scripture First it is sayd the number of Antichrist is 666. Apocal. 13.18 So anno 606. or thereabout Boniface the 3. obtayned of Phocas the Emperour to be called vniuersall Bishop Thus sayth Illyricus Chytraeus Also beginning at the yeere of the Lord 97. at which time Iohn wrote the Apocalyps and counting 666. yeeres we shal come to the time of Pipinus whom the Pope made King of France and he agayne much enlarged the iurisdiction and authoritie of the Pope And yet more euidently about the yeere of the Lord 666. the Latine seruice was commanded to be vsed in all countreys subiect to the See of Rome by Pope Vitalianus and about the same time Constantius the Emperour remoued the ancient monuments of the Empire to Constantinople and left the citie to the Popes pleasure Fulk annot in 13. Reuel sect 10. Another prophecie we haue Reuel 20.3 that after one 1000. yeeres Sathan must be let loose Euen so a thousand yeeres after Christ Pope Siluester a great coniurer hauing made a compact with the Diuell obtayned the Papacie and not long after him came in Gregorie the 7. a great Sorcerer also and Necromancer sic Lutherus But because it is not to be thought that Sathan was bound during that great and long persecution vnder the Romane Emperours wee must begin the account of the 1000. yeeres from the end of the persecution which continued 294. yeeres vnto that adde a thousand so haue we the yeere of our Lord 1294. About which yeere Boniface the 8. made the sixt booke of the Decretals confirmed the orders of Friers and gaue them great freedomes with this number agreeth Daniel his 1290. dayes Dan. 12 1â— Also somewhat before this time anno 1260. the orders of Dominicke and Franciscane Friers began first to be set vp by Honorius the 3. and Gregorie the 9. and so haue we the 1260. daies which are set downe Apocal. 12. plura apud Fox pag. 398. 2 If Antichrist should raigne but three yeeres and an halfe as our aduersaries teach and then immediatly that time being expired the world should end then it is possible to assigne the time of our Lord Christ his comming to iudgement so soone as Antichrist is reuealed But the Gospell sayth that of that day and houre knoweth no man no not the Angels in heauen Math. 24.36 yet these good fellowes take vpon them to be wiser then the
Angels for they dare set downe the very day of Christs comming which shall be as Bellarmine presumptuously imagineth iust 45. dayes after the destruction of Antichrist And to this purpose he abuseth that place of Dan. 12.11 where mention is made of 1290. dayes that is as he fondly interpreteth three yeeres and an halfe the iust time of Antichrists raigne But blessed is he that commeth sayth the Prophet to 1335. dayes that is sayth Bellarmine to 45. dayes after the destruction of Antichrist and then Christ commeth cap. 9. What intolerable boldnes and presumption is this contrarie to the saying of Christ to attempt to declare the very houre of his comming Agayne the prophecie of Daniel had no such meaning for he onely speaketh of the afflictions of the Church before the comming of Christ as Iohn prophecieth of the troubles that came after Daniel therfore in that place receiueth instructions concerning the cruell persecution of the Iewes vnder Antiochus Epiphanes the beginning and the end thereof There are three times reuealed vnto him The first is of a time two times and halfe a time or rather the deuiding of time or as Tremellius more agreeable to the Hebrew a part or parcel of times so long should the temple be defiled and the abomination set vp in the temple that is three yeeres and certayne dayes And so it came to passe for this desolation began in the temple the 145. yeere of the raigne of the Greekes the fifteene day of the moneth Casleu 1. Macchab. 1.57 when Antiochus caused the daylie sacrifice to cease and incense to bee burnt to Idols And iust three yeeres and ten dayes after which is to bee reckoned for the odde parcell of times Ann. 148. the 25. day of Casleu they began to offer sacrifice in the temple according to the lawe 1. Macchab. 4.52 The second time reuealed is of a 1290. dayes Dan. 12.11 which maketh three yeeres seuen moneths and odde dayes which is the time counting from the desolation when as the sacrifices should be restored and confirmed by the Kings graunt and Letters Patents which accordingly came to passe ann 148. the fifteenth of the moneth Xanthicus which was the last moneth but one as it is recorded 2. Macchab. 11.33 The third time is described by dayes 1335. Dan. 12.12 Blessed is hee that should liue to see that time namely when the Church of the Iewes should fullie bee deliuered by the death of Antiochus which was in the beginning of the next yeere which was 149. 1. Macchab. 6.16 Thus wee see these times were fully accomplished vnder the tyrannie of Antiochus wherefore these prophecies being once fulfilled they cannot bee drawne to signifie any other time but by way of similitude and comparison Neither is that any thing worth which the Iesuite obiecteth out of S. Paul 2. Thess. 2.8 Then shall the wicked man bee reuealed whom Christ shall consume with the spirit of his mouth As though presently after the reuelation of Antichrist Christ should come And therefore Antichrist must not be expected or looked for before the end of the world for the whole time from the first comming of Christ to his second is in the scripture called nouissima hora the last times 1. Ioh. 2.18 And therefore Antichrist at what time soeuer he is reuealed after the ascension of Christ he commeth in the last times whose vtter ruine and destruction shall be reserued for the glorious appearing of Christ as the Apostle there speaketh 3 Whereas the scripture sayth that Sathan must bee bound for a thousand yeeres and after let loose agayne Apocal. 20.2 And it is playne that the thousand yeeres since Christ are expired more then fiue hundred yeeres agoe It followeth hereupon that Antichrist is alreadie come for he must bee reuealed with the loosing of Sathan Our aduersaries haue nothing to answere but this that by this 1000. yeeres a certayne time is not ment but the whole space during the time of the newe Testament till the comming of Antichrist Rhemist Reuel 20. sect 1. To whom wee answere that by the same reason neither shall their 42. moneths shewe any certayne time but the whole space so long as Antichrist shall raigne and this number of moneths as of dayes weekes houres the scripture euery where taketh mystically in prophecies but when thousands or hundred yeeres are mentioned they are alwaies taken literally as Isay. 7.8 it is prophecied that Ephraim that is Israel should vtterly cease to bee a people within 65. yeeres which euen so came to passe counting from the fourth yeere of the raigne of Ahaz King of Iuda to the 25. yeere of Manasses when the remnant of Israel was carried away THE THIRD PART CONCERNING THE NAME character and signe of Antichrist The Papists THey stoutly affirme that Antichrist shall be one particular man consequently error 58 they also hold that he shall haue a certayne name as Christ is called Iesus so Antichrist must also haue a proper name but what that name shall be no man can tell vntill hee come but it shall consist of certayne letters that in number make sixe hundred sixtie sixe Bellarm. cap. 10. Rhemist annot Apocal. 13. sect 10. 1 Apocal. 13.18 Count the number of the beast for it is the number of a man and his number is 666. Hereupon they conclude that Antichrist shall haue a certayne name which conteyneth that number Bellarm. ibid. Answere First it is the number of the beast and yet of a man Ergo it cannot bee the name of any one man for by the beast the Iesuites themselues vnderstand a companie or multitude Rhemist Apocal. 13. sect 1. Wherefore it must be such a name as agreeth to a companie or succession of men and such is the name Latinus as afterward we will shewe Secondly it must bee a name by number shewing the time not an idle number signifying nothing the time of his comming is set downe to be 666 But the name of their Antichrist cannot shew any such time seeing there are yeeres more then twise 666. gone alreadie and yet they say their Antichrist is not yet come 2 Antichrist shall haue a name as Christ had but it is not necessarie to bee knowne otherwise then Christ his name was which was described by Sibil by the number of 888. as Antichrists is by 666. yet was not his name Iesus perfectly knowne before his comming neither is it necessarie that Antichrists should before that time Iesus in Greeke letters thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 maketh as you see 888. Bellarm. cap. 10. Answere First you must proue Antichrist to be one singular man as Christ was and then striue for his name Secondly you doe euill to match Sibils prophecie and Iohns reuelation together as though her coniecture of the name of Christ by the number 888. were of like authoritie with Iohns prophecie of 666. Thirdly it is false that the name Iesus was onely by Sibil signified by these numbers for Augustine alleadgeth certayne verses of
so well knowne in stories that I neede not come to particulars 6 Antichrist is called a wicked man and a man of sinne vers 3.8 And where shall you finde more wicked men then among the Popes Siluester the 2. gaue his soule to the diuell to obtayne the Papacie Fox pag. 167. Benno reporteth of Hildebrand that he poysoned sixe Popes to come to the Popedome Pope Stephen and Sergius tooke vp the bodie of Formosus and mangled it cutting off his head and fingers and so cast it into Tibris Fox pag. 120. We haue heard before what a holy Father Pope Iohn the 13. was he lay with his owne sister and with his fathers Concubines playing at dice called for the diuell was slayne in adulterie And was it not I pray you a common prouerbe in England He that goeth to Rome once seeth a wicked man he that goeth twise learneth to know him he that goeth the third time bringeth him home with him Fox pag. 841. argument Illyrici The third place we doe take out of the Apocalyps chap. 9. where is a playne storie set downe of the Pope 1 vers 1. He is a starre fallen from heauen he is departed from the ancient faith of Rome to superstition and idolatrie 2 He hath the key of the bottomlesse pit who giueth the crosse keyes in his armes but the Pope who sayth hee may euacuate all Purgatorie at once if hee will but he Who sayth he may Pleno iure currus animarum plenos secum ad tartara detrudere by full right carrie downe to hell with him charriots Ioden with soules cap. si Papa distinct 42. Is not this the Pope who then more fitly may be sayd to haue the key of the bottomlesse pit 3 There arise out of the bottomlesse pit a great flocke of Locusts that is the innumerable sort of begging Friers for they are in euery respect described First compared to Locusts for their number vers 3. There were an 100. diuers sorts of Friers Fox pag. 260. Secondly they had power giuen them for fiue moneths that is as Walter Brute expoundeth it taking a moneth for thirtie dayes a day for a yeere as it is prophetically taken an 150. yeeres for so long it was from the beginning of the Friers vnder Innocent the 3. anno 1212. to the time of Armachanus who preached disputed and wrote agaynst the Friers about anno 1360. Fox pag. 414. Thirdly they shall sting like Scorpions not slay all at once but venome and poyson the conscience with the sting of their pestilent doctrine Fourthly other parts also of the description agree as vers 7. They are as horses prepared to battaile that is stoute ambitious their haire as the haire of women that is they shall be effeminate and giuen to the lusts of the flesh their teeth as the teeth of Lions they by valiant begging shall deuoure the portions of the poore as it was well proued in King Henry the 8. dayes in the Supplication of beggars that the summe of the Friers almes came to a great summe in the yeere for the fiue orders of Friers had a penie a quarter for euery one of euery housholder throughout England that is for them all twentie pence by the yeere suppose that there be but ten housholds in euery towne and let there be twentie thousand parishes and townes in England it will not want much of twentie thousand pound Thus had they Lions teeth that is consuming and deuouring Lastly they haue a King vers 11. whose name is Abaddon a destroyer for the Pope their chiefe prince and patron hath by his Antichristian doctrine layd wast the Church of God Argument Chytraei The fourth place of scripture wee will take out of the 17. of the Apocalyps there the seate of Antichrist is described First vers 5. It is called Babylon the citie which raigneth ouer the Kings of the earth vers 18. This can be no other but Rome which then had the Empire of the whole world Secondly It is the citie built vpon seuen hils or mountaynes vers 9. that is no other but Rome Thirdly the whore which is Antichrist shall sit vpon the beast with seuen heads and ten hornes that is shall succeede in the Empire and haue the authoritie thereof so hath the Pope Fourthly the ten hornes that is the Kings of the earth shal giue their authoritie to the beast but afterward shall deuoure her flesh Euen so the Kings of the earth by their sword maintayned the authoritie of the Pope But now being taught by the Gospell they are made the Lords free men and begin to subdue their neckes from his yoke The fift place is 1. Iohn 2.22 Who is a lyar but he that denyeth that Iesus is Christ the same is Antichrist that denyeth the father and the sonne Euen so the Pope of Rome though not openly and apertly yet closely and subtilly is an enemie vnto the whole trinitie He exalteth himselfe aboue God the father because he taketh vpon him to dispense not onely agaynst the lawe of nature but agaynst the lawe of God the morall law and agaynst the precepts both of the old and new testament but a lawe cannot be dispensed withall but by the same authoritie or greater Agaynst Iesus Christ he exalteth himselfe and all his offices he denyeth him to be the onely Prophet saying the scriptures are vnperfect and that their traditions are also necessarie to saluation Agayne he maketh other bookes scripture then those which are Canonicall His kingly office he doth arrogate to himselfe in making lawes to binde the conscience in ordayning other Sacraments in granting Indulgences and Pardons saying that he is the head of the Church His Priesthood he is an enemie vnto constituting another priesthood after the order of Melchisedech then that of our Sauiour Christ which begun vpon the Crosse and remayneth still in his person being incommunicable to any other creature yet they make euery sacrificing Priest to bee of the order of Melchisedech He impugneth the office of the holy spirit counting that prophane which the holy Ghost hath sanctified as marriage and meates arrogateth in all things the spirit of truth not to erre applieth the merites of Christs passion after his owne pleasure by Pardons Indulgences by ceremonies and Sacraments of his owne inuention Fulk 2. Thess. 2. sect 10. Ergo we conclude out of S. Iohn that seeing he denieth Iesus to be Christ he is Antichrist Sixtly S. Paul sayth that Antichrist shal be an aduersarie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Thess. 2.4 An aduersarie in doctrine teaching cleane contrarie to the Gospell of Christ so doth the Pope 1 The scripture sayth wee ought to put our trust onely in God and not in man Ierem. 17.7 and to call vpon God onely in the day of trouble Psal. 50.15 and to worship him in spirit and truth Iohn 4.24 The Papists say cleane contrarie that we must call vpon Saints and beleeue they can helpe vs and they teach vs to fall downe before
yet is it not best for euery man to be rich God seeth it good that some men should be poore So single life is the best for those that haue the gift of chastitie that can with a quiet conscience liue single otherwise matrimonie were much better for Saint Paul that wisheth that euery one would liue single as hee did yet afterward sayth It is better to marrie then to burne So that by the Apostles iudgement to marrie is best for him that hath not the gift of continencie Iewel pag. 232. defens Apolog. The Protestants THat it is not onely lawfull but conuenient that all men both Ministers and others that haue not receiued a proper gift of continencie should marrie and that it is agreeable and consonant to the word of God thus wee shew it 1 The scriptures are most playne for the mariage of Ministers 1. Timoth. 3.2 Saynt Paul sayth a Bishop and generally euery Minister may be the husband of one wife and verse 11. their wiues are described howe they ought to behaue themselues Let their wiues be honest Ergo it is lawfull for them to bee maried Bellarmine answereth that Saynt Paul speaketh of the wiues which they had before their calling and ordayning not those which they should marry after But there appeareth no such thing out of the text Nay Saint Paul say wee had libertie as well as others to leade about a sister a wife euen after hee was an Apostle 1. Corinth 9. Wherefore it is as lawfull afterward as afore Bellarmine answereth We must thus read a Sister a woman and it is like they were women that did minister vnto the Apostles and followed them We replie First the word Sister doth implie a woman and therefore it had been an improper and needlesse speech to say a sister a woman therefore we must rather read a sister a wife Secondly if they were other women which ministred of their substance what neede the Apostles to be mayntained of the Churches if they ministred but in their seruice and attendance who were more fit to doe it and to follow them from place to place then their wiues Thirdly the phrase of leading about a sister importeth a superioritie and authority such as the husband hath ouer his wife Another place we haue Hebr. 13.3 Mariage is honourable among all men Ergo amongst Ministers Bellarmin If it were meant of all mariages then to marrie within the degrees of consanguinitie were also honourable Answere This is a very childish cauill First hee might haue read further And the bedde vndefiled Saint Paul therefore speaketh of lawfull mariage and indeede the other ioyning and coupling of men and women together contrarie to GODS lawe is not to bee counted Matrimonie or Wedlocke but Incest rather and Fornication as the brother to marrie his brothers wife and such like Secondly Saint Paul sayth not all mariages are honourable but mariage is honourable for all men the generalitie is not of the thing but the persons Wherefore we doe fittly conclude out of this place that marriage is lawful and commendable euen among ministers argum Caluin Further Saint Paul saith For auoyding of fornication let euery man haue his owne wife 1. Corinth 7.2 Here is no restraint for Ministers Bellarm. this is to be vnderstoode of those that haue not made a vow of continency Answer First our Sauiour Christ commaundeth no such vowes it is a cruell Antichristian yoke laide vpon Ministers to binde them when they receiue orders to vowe single life therefore your Antichristian decree ought not to abridge the generall libertie granted by the Apostle Secondly the end of marriage is generall to auoyde fornication and therefore the remedie also is generall for euerie man hauing not a proper gift of continencie may be in danger of that inconuenience if he be denyed the ordinarie helpe Melancthon Againe 1. Timoth. 4. to forbid marriage is called a doctrine of diuels but the Popish Church forbiddeth marriage Bellarm. Wee doe not forbid marriage to any but we require single life of all that are entred into orders which it is at their owne choyce to receiue or to refuse Ans. First it is necessarie that some should receiue orders and be consecrate to the Church ministerie wherefore requiring this condition of all such to liue single though particularly you prohibite not this man or that to marrie yet generally you prohibite the whole calling which is worse Secondly if you say you doe not forbid marriage simplie to all no more did the Manichees for they suffered their scholars and auditors to marrie And Saint Augustines words are generall Ille prohibet matrimonium qui illud malum esse dicit he forbiddeth marriage that thinketh it is euil you therefore forbidding marriage must needs hold opinion that is wicked and euill 2 This restraint of the marriage of Ministers hath not been of ancient time in the Church but imposed vpon the Church of late 1000. yeere after Christ Polycrates Bishop of Ephesus anno 180. had seuen of his progenitors before him Bishops of the same See In the Nicene Councel Paphnutius stoode vp and stayed the decree that should haue past for restraining of the marriage of Ministers and it is saide Synodus landauit sententiam Paphnutij The Synod commended Paphnutius sentence Sozomen lib. 1. cap. 11. Gregorie the father of Gregorie was Bishop of Nazianzum The Greeke Church neuer yet receiued this popish decree of single life and their Bishops are married at this day Bellarmine saith that the Church of Rome hath dispenced with them cap. 18. Ergo if the Pope would dispence with the Latine Church it might be lawfull enough then for Ministers to marrie wherefore it is but a humane constitution Againe it is false that they haue dispenced with the Greeke Church they care not for their dispensations but vse their owne Christian libertie neither was the Greeke Church euer subiect to the Bishop of Rome Thus we see that in times past marriage was lawfull for all men vntill Pope Nicholas the second Alexander the second and Gregorie the seuenth that notable sorcerer and adulterer for these three comming together one not long after another began by publike decree to restraine Priests marriage not long after them Anselme began to play the Rex here in England anno 1104. who stoutely proceeded in his vngodly purpose and enacted that married Priests should either leaue their wiues or their benefices At which time 200. Priests at once came barefoote to the Kings palace to make complaint And for all Anselmes Popelike and outragious proceedings against married Priests yet they continued married well nie two hundred yeeres after Anselmes time doe what he could and thus it is manifest that the restraint of Ministers marriage is no ancient thing but then began most to be vrged when Antichrist fullie was reuealed to the world when as the orders of Friers came in and were confirmed and priuiledged vnder Boniface 8. about anno 1300. 3 What
and Church officers their dueties and may in their owne persons execute the one that is spirituall duties that they may as well intermeddle in the other But these two offices of Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall gouernment are distinguished and must not be confounded The Prince though he haue authoritie to command Ecclesiasticall persons yet being a ciuill Magistrate is not to deale with the execution of spirituall dueties Bishops pastors likewise haue a spiritual charge ouer kings princes to shew thē their duties out of Gods word yet because they are persons Ecclesiastical they ought not to meddle with meer Ciuill dueties The Prince hath the soueraigntie of externall gouernement in all causes ouer all persons yet not alike for Ciuill offices he may both command and execute Ecclesiasticall duties he commandeth onely Bishops and pastors haue also a spirituall charge ouer all prescribing out of Gods word as well the duetie of Magistrates as of Ministers but not alike for the one they may fully execute so may they not the other The head in the naturall bodie resembleth the Prince in the commonwealth in some sense the head giueth mouing to the whole bodie and all the parts thereof but to the principall parts in the head the eyes tongue eares it giueth beside the facultie of mouing the sense also of seeing tasting hearing So in the common-wealth by the Princes authoritie all persons are kept in order and vrged to looke to their charge both ciuill officers and spirituall as al the parts of the bodie receiue mouing from the head But the ciuill officers receiue power and authoritie beside and their very offices of the King as the parts in the head receiue sense from their fountaine but Ecclesiasticall Ministers receiue not their offices from the Prince or any mortall man but they haue their calling according to the order of the Church of God Argum. 2. For the space of 300. yeeres the Church after Christ had no Christian gouernours but all Heathen and Idoll worshippers yet then the Church was established and preuailed Ergo Ciuill Magistrates ought not to deale in Ecclesiasticall affayres Bellarmine Ans. 1. Euen then also the Heathen Emperours had authoritie in Church matters and if they had commanded any thing agreeable to true religion they should haue been obeyed as Cyrus in the law which he made for building the temple Ezra 1. Darius the Median for worshipping the true God Dan. 6. Fulk Rom. 13. sect 3. The heathen Emperours then had the same power but they knewe not how to vse it Christian Princes doe succeede them in the same office but are better taught by the word of God how to exercise the sword Secondly we denie not but that in the time of persecution all things necessarie for the spirituall building thereof may be had without the Magistrate as a Vineyard may bring forth fruite without an hedge but it cannot enioy peace nor be in a perfect estate in respect of the externall gouernement but vnder good Magistrates as the Vineyard may soone be spoyled the wild bore and the beasts of the field may breake in vpon it hauing no hedge The child being in the womb though it haue as yet small vse of the head but is fed by the nauell which is in steed of the mouth hath in it selfe the lineaments and proportion of a humane bodie yet it wanteth the perfect beautie till it be borne and come forth and the head receiue his office So may the Church haue a being in persecution and the want of the ciuill head may be otherwise supplied but it is not beautifull till the head be set vp and the sword put into the Christian Magistrates hand Argum. 3. Princes haue no cure nor charge of soules Ergo they are not to meddle with Ecclesiasticall lawes Rhemist annot 1. Corinth 14. sect 16. Ans. Parents haue charge ouer the soules of their childrē for they are charged to bring them vp in the instruction and information of the Lord Ephes. 6.4 Therefore Princes also haue directly charge of the soules of their subiects according to their place and calling by prouiding and making good Ecclesiasticall lawes and compelling them to the true seruice of God As the Ecclesiasticall Ministers in another kind and more properly are said to haue the cure of soules in feeding and instructing the people Fulk ibid. The Protestants THe ciuill Magistrate by the word of God hath power to make and constitute Ecclesiasticall lawes and to establish true religion and see that all persons vnder their gouernment doe faithfully execute their charge To say therefore that the Church officers are to deuise lawes concerning religion and the Prince onely to execute them is to make the Prince their seruant and doth derogate too much from the princely authoritie Neither doe we giue vnto the Prince absolute power to make Ecclesiasticall lawes for first the Prince is not to prescribe what lawes he listeth to the Church but such as onely may require the true worship of God Secondly that it is expedient and meete according to the commendable custome of this land that the godly learned of the Clergie should be consulted withall in establishing of Ecclesiastical ordinances vnlesse it be in such a corrupt time when the Church gouernours are enemies to religion for then the Prince not staying vpon their iudgement ought to reforme religion according to the word of God as we see it was lawfully and godly practised by King Henrie the 8. Thirdly we doe make exception of all such Ecclesiasticall canons and ordinances the making whereof doth properly belong to the office of Bishops and gouernours of the Church for our meaning is not that it is not lawful for Ecclesiastical Ministers to make Ecclesiastical decrees which do properly concerne their office as concerning the censures of the Church excommunication suspension absoluing binding loosing and such like which things are incident to their pastorall office and yet we grant that the Prince hath euen in these cases an ouerruling hand to see that none abuse their pastoral office But that any lawes ought to be made without the authoritie of the prince which the prince is bound to execute we vtterly denie And so we conclude that the ciuill Magistrate hath power ouer all persons and in all causes both temporall and ecclesiasticall in such manner as we haue sayd 1 S. Paul willeth that praiers should be made for Kings and Princes that vnder them we may leade a peaceable life in all godlines and honestie 1. Tim. 2.2 Ergo it is their duetie as well to procure religion by their authoritie as ciuill honestie Againe He beareth not the sword for nought Rom. 13.4 He hath power to punish al euill doers therfore also to correct euill ministers to make Ecclesiastical lawes for otherwise he should haue no ful power to correct the transgressors thereof 2 We reade that Iosua Dauid Salomon Iosia did deale in ecclesiasticall matters which concerned religion and the worship of God