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B06481 A vulgar or popvlar discourse. Shewing that the warre [raised by the two] houses, fomented chiefly [by the Londo]ners ... and others ... disaffected to monarchicall government is not ... in defence of the ... Protestant religion ... the laws and liberties of the kingdom ... but rather destructive to them all. / Written dialogue-wise, by Irenaeus ... against Eristes ... Alvey, Yeldard. 1643 (1643) Wing V750; ESTC R186086 30,959 55

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to rule over them yet they choose rather to suffer then to ●●ke ●●s●stance by force of Armes though they lacked ●either 〈◊〉 strength to withstand the Emperours Forces And that the doctrine of resisting Pri●●● 〈…〉 taught by the ancient Father you shall he 〈◊〉 ●onsi●●●ly averred by some Learned Divin● of our C●u●ch who were best seen and verst in their Writings No O●tho●o● Father did by Word or Writing 〈◊〉 resis● 〈◊〉 fo● the space of a thousand yeares after Christ ●e●l●●● 〈◊〉 cap. 19. Sect. 19. The worthy Fathers and Bishop● of the Church perswaded themselves that they owed all duty ●o Kings though Infidels and Heretickes Feild lib. 5. cap. 45. The Doctrine which teacheth resistance of Prince● is wicked having neither Scripture Councell nor Father which avowed it for a thousand yeares Bilsons true diff●ren●● between Christian Subjection and Unchristian R●bellion part 3. in whom we often meet with these or the like pa●sages Whether Princes be with God or against God either we must obey their Commandement or abide the ●●nishment if we will be Subjects Princes must be obeyed or endured Either obedien●● to their Wills or submission to the Sword is due by Go● Law God is not served with resisting the Sword but with dutifull obedience to Magistrate● when their commands agr●● with his and in case their Wills be dissonant from his th●● is he served with meeknesse and readinesse to beare 〈◊〉 abide that which earthly powers shall inflict this was the cause why the Church of Christ alwayes rejoyced in the Blood of their Martyrs patiently suffering the cruell rage both of Pagans and Arrians and never favoured any tumults of Rebells assembling themselves to withstand authority That conceit then of Bridges is fond foolish and unwarrantable who thinks that many Christian Martyrs in the Primitive Church would so farre have resisted the Roman Emperours that they would have saved their own Lives if the Senate of Rome or the People of the Roman Empire would have joyned with them Tertullian disclaimed this fancy with an absit God forbid that we Christians should defend our selves against our Emperours by humane force There can be no Warre made against us but we are fit and sufficient for it if we would seek revenge of our persecutors but our Christian discipline and profession is rather to be slain then to slay Tertul Apologet cap. 37. Saint Cyprian expresseth the same Christian profession Cyprian ad Demetriad nos laesos divina ultio desendet inde est quod nemo nostrum se adversus injustam violentiam quamvis nimius copiosus sit noster populus ulciscatur We leave vengeance to God and hence it is that none of us doe seek to revenge our selves against unjust violence although our number be exceeding great more then the number of our persecutors Erisles But what if the Kingdom see it selfe in imminent danger most likely to be ruinated by the King and His Cavaliers may it not stand up to defend it selfe by force of Armes Is not Salus Populi Suprema Lex The safety of the People the Supreme Law The preservation of the Kingdom and of the Religion Laws and Liberties thereof to be preferred before subjection to the King Irenaeus First God be thanked that is not our case for as that Gentleman of quality who wrote the Review of the Observations upon some of His Majesties late Answers and Expresses well Observes No King of this Realme hath granted more for the good ease benefit and behoofe of His Subjects then His Majesty hath done had we thankfull hearts to acknowledge it witnesse His damming of Ship-Money Monopolies c. And His yeelding to the regulation of whatsoever further grievance should be found in the Commonwealth What more gracious motion could be made by a Prince to His People then that which His Majesty made in His Message to both Houses of Parliament Ian. 20. 1641. Wherin He moved them with all speed to fall into a serious considerations of these 〈◊〉 whi●h they should hold necessary for the present and future establishment of their Privi●e●…es the free and quiet enjoying of their Estates and fortunes the Liberties of their 〈◊〉 the security of the true Religion now professed in the Church of England and the setling 〈◊〉 Ceremonies in such a d●s ent a●… c●…ly manner as might take away all just o●… offence Is this the gr●tious motion of a King that intends the ruine and subversion of His Kingdom God be Judge between Him and them that would fasten so false an● foule an aspersion upon a Prince unparalelled for clemency and piety Secondly Though the King should in a Violent and Tyrannicall way goe about to oppresse His People though really and truely there were such dangers threatned both to the Church and State as is pretended yet unlawfull means such as is resisting the Supreme Magistrate in a free Monarchy to defend our selves from unjust violence and oppression ought not to be used Suffering is commanded and commended unto us in the Scripture resisting is forbidden Rom. 13.2 Our Saviour foreshewing his Disciples that they should be brought before Kings and Rulers and be cruelly entreated saith not and he that first Rebells but he that endureth to the end shall be saved Mat. 10. And again not with violence resist them but in patience possesse your Soule Luke 21. This is the way for all Christian Subjects to conquer Tyrants not to resist the Supreme Power though Tyrannically abused least we be damned but rather to suffer that we may be Crowned When either we cannot escape by flight or abate stop the fury of Tyrants by our Teares and Prayers to God The Ancient Fathers allowed no other Weapons to Christian Subjects against persecuting Tyrants but only these foure Preces Lachrymas patientiam sugam Prayers and Tears Patience and Flight And it is observed by the Learned that the Churches never more flourished then in the Primitive times when they used these defensive Weapons only Vide Field l. ●0 c. 45. reserving vengeance unto God to whom only it belongs to take order with wicked Kings since he alone is above them and therefore he alone hath power to punish them The royall dignity of Kings is so inseparably annexed to their sacred Persons that although they doe offend in Person yet no vindictive power can be exercised against their persons without violation of their Royall Dignity which although it be not transcendent to all Laws of Justice to be done yet it is transcendent to all Lawes of Justice in respect of punishment by man when Justice is not done And in that respect David a King truely said to God against thee only have I sinned Psal ●1 4 he had sinned against others yet so as none might take vengeance of him for his sinne but only God This I am sure was the Divinity of Saint Ambrose Chrysostome and others of the Ancient Fathers Reges nullis ad paenam vo●antur legibus tuti imperii