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A82002 A sober and temperate discourse, concerning the interest of words in prayer, the just antiquity and pedigree of liturgies, or forms of prayer in churches : with a view of the state of the church, when they were first composed, or imposed. Together with a discovery of the weakness of the grounds upon which they were first brought in, or upon which Bishop Gawden hath lately discoursed, the necessity of a liturgie, or the inconveniency of altering the English liturgie, the utility of church musick, and the lawfulness of ceremonies : in which are mixed reasons justifying those godly ministers, who forbear the use of the Common-prayer, against the late out-cryes of the said bishop. / By H.D. M.A. H. D. (Henry Dawbeny); Collinges, John, 1623-1690, attributed name. 1661 (1661) Wing D449; Thomason E1086_14; ESTC R208152 100,305 119

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the_o time_n to_o make_v a_o new_a lytugry_a the_o common_a people_n will_v have_v think_v it_o a_o new_a religion_n they_o therefore_o translate_v the_o old_a gregorian_a missal_n leave_v out_o the_o prayer_n for_o the_o pope_n and_o to_o saint_n and_o for_o saint_n depart_v and_o a_o few_o such_o thing_n as_o can_v not_o be_v use_v without_o palpable_a idolatry_n and_o translate_v the_o other_o prayer_n in_o the_o mass-book_n out_o of_o latin_a into_o english_a and_o these_o be_v some_o of_o they_o establish_v by_o that_o act_n 5_o 6._o ed._n 6._o stat._n 1._o the_o truth_n of_o this_o any_o one_o that_o can_v understand_v latin_a may_v convince_v himself_o of_o by_o compare_v the_o mass-book_n with_o the_o com._n pr._n of_o edw._n 6._o where_o he_o will_v find_v betwixt_o 40._o and_o 50._o collect_v translate_v verbatim_o and_o if_o he_o compare_v the_o other_o part_n with_o the_o roman_a breviary_n the_o roman_a ritual_a and_o the_o pontificale_fw-la romanum_fw-la he_o will_v yet_o further_o see_v the_o truth_n of_o it_o xxiv_o not_o indeed_o can_v it_o be_v imagine_v that_o those_o first_o reformer_n shall_v leave_v at_o that_o time_n all_o minister_n at_o liberty_n or_o to_o their_o own_o conceive_a prayer_n when_o most_o of_o they_o be_v papist_n in_o their_o heart_n &_o general_o so_o sottish_o ignorant_a and_o insufficient_a that_o they_o can_v not_o have_v do_v any_o thing_n which_o very_o cause_n hold_v in_o qu._n eliz._n time_n where_o 1_o el._n c._n 2._o the_o common_a prayer_n be_v with_o some_o further_a emendation_n specify_v in_o the_o statute_n 28._o 5_o eliz_n c_o 28._o again_o impose_v in_o the_o 5_o year_n of_o her_o reign_n by_o act_n of_o parliament_n the_o common_a prayer_n be_v order_v to_o be_v translate_v into_o welch_n and_o use_v in_o wales_n and_o this_o be_v the_o true_a story_n both_o of_o liturgy_n in_o the_o general_n and_o the_o english_a lyturgy_n in_o special_a xxv_o by_o this_o time_n the_o reader_n who_o have_v not_o a_o mind_n to_o revive_v pythagoras_n his_o school_n again_o and_o to_o sacrifice_v his_o reason_n to_o a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d &_o believe_v every_o thing_n that_o be_v tell_v he_o before_o he_o have_v try_v the_o truth_n of_o it_o may_v see_v reason_n to_o desire_v the_o present_a l._n bish_n of_o exeter_n to_o tell_v he_o if_o he_o can_v where_o those_o same_o ancient_a model_n of_o liturgy_n not_o roman_n 13._o bish_n hall_n remonstr_n p._n 13._o but_o christian_n and_o contrive_v by_o the_o holy_a martyr_n and_o confessor_n of_o the_o bless_a reformation_n of_o religion_n be_v to_o be_v find_v the_o remonstrant_a be_v challenge_v to_o make_v it_o good_a out_o of_o ancient_a model_n but_o think_v fit_a to_o wave_v the_o business_n in_o his_o reply_n it_o have_v be_v the_o old_a plea_n but_o let_v they_o prove_v it_o if_o they_o can_v say_v didoclavius_n or_o if_o his_o present_a lordship_n of_o exeter_n do_v not_o think_v fit_a to_o answer_v for_o another_o yet_o it_o be_v reason_n that_o he_o shall_v justify_v his_o own_o word_n he_o have_v tell_v we_o in_o p._n 8._o of_o his_o consideration_n touch_v the_o lyturgy_n that_o the_o ancient_a church_n from_o the_o very_a first_o century_n do_v use_v such-publick_a wholesome_a form_n of_o find_v word_n in_o their_o sacramental_a celebration_n especial_o and_o afterward_o in_o other_o holy_a administration_n or_o public_a duty_n as_o make_v up_o their_o solemn_a devout_a and_o public_a liturgy_n which_o pattern_n all_o modern_a and_o reform_a church_n of_o any_o renown_n have_v follow_v according_a to_o the_o many_o scriptural_a example_n and_o expression_n in_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n psalm_n confession_n and_o benediction_n commend_v to_o we_o by_o holy_a man_n in_o all_o age_n and_o by_o christ_n himself_o xxvi_o the_o world_n be_v grow_v too_o wary_a to_o believe_v any_o thing_n of_o this_o because_o any_o one_o say_v so_o and_o the_o doctor_n be_v too_o wise_a to_o undertake_v to_o prove_v this_o let_v he_o prove_v that_o christ_n prescribe_v the_o lord_n prayer_n for_o a_o form_n or_o that_o the_o apostle_n ever_o use_v it_o so_o 2._o let_v he_o prove_v that_o in_o any_o of_o the_o four_o first_o century_n there_o be_v any_o state_v form_n of_o prayer_n use_v in_o the_o church_n 3._o let_v he_o prove_v that_o any_o modern_a reform_a church_n impose_v any_o form_n of_o prayer_n so_o that_o those_o and_o no_o other_o may_v be_v use_v and_o 4_o that_o they_o do_v this_o after_o the_o pattern_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n from_o the_o first_o century_n all_o these_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v prove_v nor_o be_v it_o possible_a to_o prove_v they_o xxvii_o in_o the_o 18_o p._n of_o that_o discourse_n he_o tell_v we_o that_o 19_o dr._n gaudens_fw-la consider_n p._n 19_o it_o be_v a_o jesuitical_a artifice_n and_o backblow_n use_v by_o some_o to_o aver_v though_o false_o that_o the_o english_a lyturgy_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o the_o romish_a missal_n or_o mass-book_n turn_v into_o english_a it_o be_v true_a he_o say_v some_o thing_n very_o scriptural_a devout_a and_o excellent_a which_o the_o roman_a missal_n have_v take_v and_o retain_v after_o the_o ancient_a form_n of_o liturgy_n of_o the_o church_n be_v sever_v and_o take_v as_o wheat_n from_o chaff_n and_o jewel_n from_o dross_n by_o our_o wise_a reformer_n and_o preserve_v in_o the_o english_a lyturgy_n conform_v to_o pious_a and_o unspotted_a authority_n we_o challenge_v dr._n gauden_n and_o all_o other_o of_o his_o mind_n to_o make_v this_o good_a if_o they_o can_v it_o be_v true_a there_o be_v some_o thing_n in_o the_o english_a lyturgy_n that_o be_v not_o in_o the_o gregorian_a missal_n but_o let_v any_o one_o take_v missale_n romanum_n both_o the_o old_a one_o and_o that_o establish_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n breviarium_fw-la romanum_fw-la rituale_fw-la romanum_fw-la and_o pontificale_fw-la romanum_fw-la and_o compare_v they_o all_o with_o the_o print_v com._n prayer-book_n of_o 5_o &_o 6_o e._n 6._o and_o then_o judge_v whether_o he_o can_v find_v a_o 6_o part_n of_o the_o latter_a which_o be_v in_o none_o of_o the_o former_a if_o he_o find_v that_o there_o be_v very_o little_o add_v let_v he_o the_o learn_v how_o to_o trust_v man_n talk_v after_o such_o a_o magisterial_a rate_n and_o annex_v no_o proof_n of_o their_o word_n xxviii_o if_o the_o reader_n find_v it_o true_a that_o whatsoever_o dr._n gauden_n say_v there_o be_v in_o our_o english_a lyturgy_n as_o it_o be_v common_o expose_v to_o sale_n very_o little_a but_o what_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o mass-book_n in_o latin_a let_v he_o then_o go_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o exeter_n and_o desire_v he_o for_o his_o credit_n sake_n to_o show_v he_o those_o ancient_a form_n of_o lyturgy_n use_v in_o the_o church_n out_o of_o which_o these_o form_n of_o prayer_n be_v transcribe_v and_o take_v which_o must_v be_v immediate_o after_o the_o first_o century_n or_o tell_v he_o what_o that_o same_o pious_a and_o unspotted_a authority_n be_v if_o he_o tell_v he_o it_o be_v pope_n gregory_n which_o he_o must_v if_o he_o speak_v truth_n let_v he_o tell_v he_o that_o he_o have_v hear_v that_o he_o be_v a_o vile_a wretch_n accuse_v for_o a_o murderer_n the_o father_n of_o most_o of_o the_o superstitious_a usage_n now_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n one_o who_o understand_v not_o the_o greek_a tongue_n as_o himself_o confess_v a_o man_n of_o no_o admirable_a judgement_n witness_v his_o pretend_v commentary_n upon_o job_n which_o may_v have_v as_o well_o be_v upon_o the_o revelation_n a_o man_n very_o far_o from_o be_v either_o pious_a or_o unspotted_a or_o fit_a for_o his_o seat_n one_o that_o defend_v purgatory_n that_o fawn_v upon_o phocas_n the_o murderer_n in_o short_a one_o of_o no_o deserve_a name_n or_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n xxix_o by_o this_o discourse_n it_o appear_v that_o there_o be_v no_o lyturgy_n direct_v form_n of_o prayer_n for_o the_o church_n till_o pope_n gregory_n time_n anno_fw-la 600._o nor_o any_o impose_v till_o the_o time_n of_o charles_n the_o great_a anno_fw-la 800._o when_o all_o manner_n of_o superstitious_a usage_n be_v bring_v into_o the_o church_n nor_o be_v it_o then_o impose_v without_o a_o persecution_n attend_v it_o and_o this_o reader_n be_v the_o pious_a and_o unspotted_a authority_n the_o bishop_n tell_v thou_o of_o from_o hence_o thou_o will_v also_o conclude_v the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o english_a lyturgy_n the_o reason_n of_o its_o first_o be_v impose_v and_o no_o further_a reform_v either_o by_o k._n edw._n or_o by_o qu._n elizabeth_n in_o king_n james_n his_o time_n it_o receive_v some_o addition_n what_o reformation_n we_o can_v tell_v xxx_o by_o all_o this_o discourse_n it_o appear_v that_o there_o be_v no_o divine_a prescript_n no_o apostolical_a
tradition_n no_o universal_a tradition_n no_o example_n of_o the_o pure_a primitive_a church_n for_o more_o than_o 400._o yea_o 700_o year_n after_o christ_n which_o can_v be_v plead_v for_o impose_v form_n of_o prayer_n by_o any_o that_o make_v any_o conscience_n of_o their_o word_n or_o will_v undertake_v to_o prove_v what_o they_o say_v chap._n iu._n a_o enquiry_n into_o the_o state_n of_o those_o church_n which_o first_o commend_v or_o impose_v liturgy_n at_o the_o time_n when_o they_o first_o make_v such_o imposition_n i._o though_o it_o may_v seem_v absurd_a to_o inquire_v whether_o the_o gray_a hair_n of_o liturgy_n be_v find_v in_o the_o way_n of_o righteousness_n when_o we_o have_v evince_v that_o they_o have_v no_o such_o pretend_a antiquity_n and_o age_n to_o glory_n in_o and_o that_o the_o assertor_n of_o such_o antiquity_n for_o they_o do_v but_o impose_v upon_o the_o world_n yet_o consider_v what_o we_o remember_v we_o have_v learn_v out_o of_o aristotle_n that_o there_o be_v a_o youthfulness_n in_o respect_n of_o age_n or_o in_o respect_n of_o manner_n and_o condition_n it_o may_v be_v worthy_a of_o a_o further_a enquiry_n whether_o yet_o there_o may_v not_o be_v such_o a_o necessity_n of_o they_o or_o such_o a_o comeliness_n beauty_n and_o gravity_n in_o they_o as_o may_v not_o only_o justify_v magistrate_n in_o the_o impose_v of_o they_o but_o oblige_v every_o soul_n that_o have_v aught_o to_o do_v with_o reason_n to_o fall_v in_o with_o the_o use_n of_o they_o yea_o passionate_o to_o desire_v they_o even_o as_o much_o as_o rachel_n do_v child_n which_o we_o shall_v the_o better_o determine_v by_o review_v the_o first_o occasion_n of_o liturgy_n and_o the_o complexion_n of_o the_o church_n in_o those_o age_n when_o they_o be_v first_o make_v or_o most_o use_v ii_o i_o think_v we_o may_v say_v of_o liturgy_n as_o christ_n say_v of_o the_o bill_n of_o divorce_n which_o moses_n allow_v moses_n very_o for_o the_o hardness_n of_o your_o heart_n give_v you_o a_o bill_n of_o divorce_n but_o from_o the_o beginning_n it_o be_v not_o so_o he_o that_o have_v a_o residue_n of_o spirit_n as_o the_o prophet_n say_v make_v one_o for_o one_o the_o church_n play_v moses_n his_o part_n in_o the_o business_n of_o form_n of_o prayer_n christ_n who_o have_v a_o residue_n of_o spirit_n the_o spirit_n give_v he_o without_o measure_n impose_v no_o form_n of_o prayer_n upon_o his_o minister_n or_o church_n the_o apostle_n who_o have_v the_o first_o and_o most_o plentiful_a powring_n out_o of_o the_o spirit_n of_o grace_n impose_v no_o such_o thing_n christ_n indeed_o give_v a_o more_o general_a direction_n to_o his_o people_n in_o prayer_n to_o ask_v thing_n according_a to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n and_o in_o his_o name_n and_o more_o particular_a direction_n in_o that_o excellent_a form_n call_v the_o lord_n prayer_n but_o that_o as_o durantus_n idle_o say_v either_o christ_n or_o his_o apostle_n use_v the_o lord_n prayer_n ordinary_o as_o a_o form_n of_o word_n in_o prayer_n or_o that_o the_o apostle_n use_v a_o form_n of_o word_n to_o express_v their_o faith_n ●r_o impose_v the_o creed_n common_o call_v but_o hardly_o to_o be_v prove_v there_o be_v which_o the_o same_o author_n assert_v must_v certain_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o some_o such_o canonical_a write_n as_o the_o epistle_n of_o christ_n to_o abagarus_n or_o to_o paul_n and_o peter_n for_o there_o be_v no_o authentic_a record_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n but_o in_o process_n of_o time_n indeed_o the_o church_n begin_v to_o do_v some_o such_o thing_n iii_o the_o high_a mention_n we_o can_v find_v be_v that_o thin_a synod_n of_o the_o church_n of_o laodicea_n make_v up_o of_o 32_o bishop_n and_o this_o whatever_o bishop_n hall_n say_v according_a to_o longus_n can_v be_v prove_v as_o we_o say_v before_o to_o have_v be_v before_o the_o year_n 364._o as_o to_o which_o time_n balsamon_n and_o caranza_n agree_v it_o but_o true_o it_o have_v be_v no_o great_a wonder_n if_o this_o church_n which_o many_o year_n before_o be_v grow_v neither_o hot_a nor_o cold_a 3.17_o rev._n 3.17_o but_o in_o such_o a_o temper_n that_o god_n be_v ready_a to_o spew_v it_o out_o of_o his_o mouth_n for_o which_o we_o have_v a_o authentic_a record_n in_o the_o revelation_n shall_v long_o before_o this_o time_n have_v make_v such_o a_o salve_n and_o prudent_a provision_n for_o the_o laziness_n of_o her_o minister_n he_o that_o shall_v read_v the_o canon_n of_o that_o synod_n against_o the_o minister_n haunt_v tavern_n and_o use_v enchantment_n as_o also_o the_o other_o canon_n about_o exorcise_a and_o the_o several_a officer_n and_o office_n of_o the_o church_n will_v see_v reason_n enough_o to_o conclude_v the_o woeful_a corruption_n of_o the_o church_n in_o those_o part_n if_o not_o to_o suspect_v that_o it_o be_v of_o a_o far_o low_a date_n than_o be_v pretend_v iv_o the_o synod_n of_o 40_o bishop_n at_o carthage_n which_o be_v the_o 3d._a synod_n of_o carthage_n only_o enjoin_v minister_n to_o communicate_v to_o their_o more_o able_a brethren_n their_o prayer_n compose_v for_o their_o public_a congregation_n this_o be_v in_o the_o year_n 397._o yet_o that_o the_o face_n of_o the_o church_n at_o this_o time_n have_v many_o spot_n and_o much_o impurity_n cleave_v to_o it_o may_v appear_v by_o this_o synod_n by_o their_o 6_o can._n against_o give_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o or_o baptise_v such_o as_o be_v dead_a by_o their_o many_o canon_n 17_o 25.27_o against_o clergyman_n haunt_v tavern_n and_o keep_v scandalous_a company_n with_o woman_n their_o 30._o can._n against_o jovial_a meeting_n in_o church_n their_o 36_o can._n about_o the_o chrisma_n or_o the_o anoint_v oil_n which_o no_o presbyter_n must_v make_v and_o that_o this_o synod_n consist_v not_o of_o the_o most_o infallible_o wise_a father_n appear_v by_o their_o learned_a 29_o canon_n where_o they_o take_v pain_n to_o decree_v that_o every_o minister_n shall_v give_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o altar_n so_o it_o seem_v they_o have_v learned_a to_o call_v the_o lord_n supper_n fast_v yet_o this_o synod_n in_o the_o business_n of_o prayer_n do_v not_o think_v fit_a to_o restrain_v every_o minister_n only_o have_v so_o loose_a and_o insufficient_a a_o clergy_n they_o order_v the_o weak_a sort_n have_v compose_v prayer_n to_o confer_v their_o note_n before_o they_o use_v they_o cum_fw-la fratribus_fw-la instructioribus_fw-la with_o their_o more_o able_a brethren_n v._o after_o this_o the_o council_n of_o mela_n anno_fw-la 416._o grow_v more_o bold_a and_o ordain_v as_o to_o their_o province_n for_o what_o authority_n have_v they_o further_o that_o the_o minister_n shall_v use_v no_o prayer_n but_o such_o as_o that_o synod_n have_v approve_v they_o may_v just_o expect_v that_o the_o church_n under_o their_o inspection_n will_v hardly_o swallow_v this_o new_a pill_n if_o it_o be_v not_o lap_v up_o in_o some_o good_a reason_n and_o therefore_o they_o give_v their_o reason_n for_o it_o lest_o something_o shall_v be_v vent_v against_o the_o true_a doctrine_n of_o faith_n either_o by_o some_o minister_n negligence_n or_o ignorance_n the_o cause_n of_o that_o synod_n meet_v be_v the_o censure_v of_o pelagius_n that_o great_a enemy_n of_o grace_n the_o error_n which_o pelagius_n have_v broach_v be_v these_o 1._o that_o adam_n shall_v have_v die_v though_o he_o have_v never_o sin_v 2._o that_o infant_n be_v bear_v without_o original_a sin_n 3._o that_o there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o he_o assist_v grace_n of_o god_n sin_n be_v once_o pardon_v 4._o that_o all_o the_o need_n we_o have_v of_o grace_n be_v to_o illuminate_v we_o in_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god_n commandment_n 5._o that_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n only_o help_v we_o to_o do_v his_o will_n more_o easy_o and_o free_o 6._o that_o the_o word_n of_o st._n john_n if_o we_o say_v we_o have_v no_o sin_n we_o deceive_v ourselves_o be_v only_o figurative_o true_a not_o literal_o 7._o that_o the_o saint_n pray_v forgive_v we_o our_o trespass_n be_v appoint_v they_o in_o the_o behalf_n of_o other_o not_o themselves_o or_o 8._o if_o for_o themselves_o only_o as_o a_o expression_n of_o their_o humility_n not_o conclude_v they_o to_o have_v any_o sin_n to_o be_v forgive_v against_o these_o error_n that_o reverend_a synod_n make_v their_o 8_o first_o canon_n pelagius_n have_v use_v diverse_a art_n the_o story_n be_v too_o long_o to_o insert_v to_o secure_v his_o doctrine_n from_o a_o public_a censure_n have_v far_o diffuse_v the_o poison_n of_o this_o doctrine_n this_o reverend_a synod_n observe_v his_o error_n to_o be_v in_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v the_o daily_a matter_n of_o minister_n confession_n and_o supplication_n think_v fit_a for_o the_o prevention_n of_o the_o diffuse_v this_o venom_n by_o minister_n in_o their_o public_a prayer_n as_o also_o