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king_n earl_n henry_n son_n 52,581 5 5.5730 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A48365 A reply to Sr. Thomas Manwaring's answer to my two books. Written by Sr. Peter Leycester, Baronet, anno Domini, 1675. The second reply. Together with the case of Amicia truly stated Leycester, Peter, Sir, 1614-1678. 1676 (1676) Wing L1944; ESTC R213614 31,564 110

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elder_a than_o his_o wife_n bertred_n why_o so_o for_o say_v he_o though_o the_o say_v robert_n do_v live_v something_o long_o than_o sir_n peter_n do_v take_v notice_n of_o yet_o he_o think_v it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o he_o be_v live_v any_o considerable_a time_n after_o eustace_n who_o be_v witness_n to_o the_o grant_v of_o stivinghale_n and_o he_o know_v no_o reason_n why_o we_o shall_v conclude_v eustace_n be_v slay_v immediate_o after_o he_o be_v a_o witness_n to_o the_o other_o deed_n or_o that_o this_o robert_n dye_v present_o after_o he_o be_v a_o witness_n to_o this_o deed._n 2._o he_o say_v pag._n 49._o that_o he_o think_v it_o will_v appear_v that_o this_o deed_n be_v make_v in_o king_n stephen_n time_n for_o have_v it_o be_v make_v when_o henry_n the_o second_o be_v king_n it_o will_v not_o have_v be_v here_o say_v sicut_fw-la fuit_fw-la tempore_fw-la henrici_fw-la regis_fw-la but_o sicut_fw-la fuit_fw-la tempore_fw-la henrici_fw-la primi_fw-la or_o else_o here_o will_v 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very_a wise_a and_o know_a man_n some_o divine_n some_o lawyer_n and_o other_o grave_n and_o understand_a person_n have_v herein_o declare_v that_o they_o concur_v in_o opinion_n that_o amicia_n be_v a_o bastard_n but_o now_o arise_v another_o question_n for_o those_o who_o will_v have_v amicia_n to_o be_v a_o lawful_a daughter_n and_o no_o bastard_n which_o can_v be_v support_v either_o by_o history_n record_n or_o reason_n they_o will_v ground_v their_o opinion_n from_o a_o point_n of_o law_n to_o wit_n that_o land_n can_v pass_v in_o free-marriage_n with_o a_o bastard_n and_o because_o amicia_n have_v a_o grant_n of_o some_o service_n in_o free-marriage_n from_o the_o earl_n her_o father_n therefore_o they_o conclude_v she_o be_v no_o bastard_n for_o all_o other_o argument_n for_o her_o legitimacy_n be_v so_o void_a of_o reason_n and_o authority_n that_o all_o bottom_n on_o this_o one_o argument_n and_o the_o question_n now_o be_v this_o whether_o the_o deed_n of_o hugh_n earl_n of_o chester_n wherein_o he_o grant_v unto_o ralph_n manwaring_n in_o free-marriage_n with_o amicia_n his_o daughter_n the_o service_n of_o gilbert_n son_n of_o roger_n to_o wit_n the_o service_n of_o three_o knights-fee_n by_o do_v to_o the_o say_a earl_n &_o his_o heir_n the_o service_n of_o two_o knights-fee_n be_v a_o sure_a argument_n to_o prove_v amicia_n a_o legitimate_a daughter_n but_o for_o the_o better_a state_v of_o the_o question_n it_o be_v grant_v on_o both_o side_n that_o land_n can_v now_o pass_v in_o free-marriage_n with_o a_o bastard_n as_o the_o law_n be_v take_v at_o this_o day_n the_o proper_a question_n of_o law_n therefore_o in_o the_o present_a case_n be_v this_o whether_o by_o the_o law_n in_o glanvil_n time_n who_o be_v chief_a justice_n of_o england_n under_z king_n henry_n the_o second_o and_o live_v in_o the_o very_a age_n with_o amicia_n when_o the_o say_a deed_n be_v make_v land_n might_a and_o do_v usual_o pass_v in_o those_o elder_a age_n in_o free-marriage_n as_o well_o with_o bastard_n as_o no_o bastard_n the_o argument_n for_o the_o affirmative_a part_n be_v these_o 1._o from_o the_o very_a word_n of_o glanvil_n himself_o who_o be_v the_o first_o after_o the_o norman-conquest_n who_o reduce_v the_o model_n of_o our_o common-law_n into_o writing_n in_o his_o treatise_n de_fw-fr legibus_fw-la angliae_fw-la lib._n 7._o cap._n 1._o quilibet_fw-la libre_fw-la homo_fw-la quandam_fw-la partem_fw-la terrae_fw-la suae_fw-la cùm_fw-la filiâ_fw-la suâ_fw-la vel_fw-la cum_fw-la aliquâ_fw-la aliâ_fw-la quâlibet_fw-la muliere_fw-la dare_v potest_fw-la in_o maritagium_fw-la sive_fw-la habuerit_fw-la haeredem_fw-la sive_fw-la non_fw-la velit_fw-la haeres_fw-la vel_fw-la non_fw-la imo_fw-la &_o eo_fw-la contradicente_fw-la also_o lib._n 7._o cap._n 18._o liberum_fw-la dicitur_fw-la maritagium_fw-la quando_fw-la aliquis_fw-la libre_fw-la homo_fw-la aliquam_fw-la partem_fw-la terrae_fw-la suae_fw-la
that_fw-mi cum_fw-la aliquâ_fw-la muliere_fw-la alicui_fw-la in_o maritagium_fw-la ità_fw-la quod_fw-la ab_fw-la omni_fw-la servitio_fw-la terra_fw-la illa_fw-la sit_fw-la quieta_fw-la &_o à_fw-la se_fw-la &_o haeredibus_fw-la suis_fw-la versus_fw-la capitalem_fw-la dominum_fw-la acquietanda_fw-la and_o bracton_n express_o lib._n 2._o cap._n 7._o quoniam_fw-la terra_fw-la data_fw-la bastado_n in_fw-la maritagium_fw-la sicut_fw-la &_o aliis_fw-la vel_fw-la bastardo_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la in_fw-la se_fw-la tacitam_fw-la habet_fw-la conditionem_fw-la vel_fw-la expressam_fw-la de_fw-la reversione_n etc._n etc._n see_v also_o sir_n thomas_n manwaring_n lawcase_n mistake_v pag._n 10_o 11._o so_o that_o land_n may_v be_v give_v in_o free-marriage_n to_o any_o man_n with_o any_o woman_n whosoever_o without_o any_o exception_n and_o if_o with_o any_o woman_n whosoever_o then_o certain_o with_o a_o bastard_n and_o bracton_n more_o express_o that_o land_n may_v then_o be_v give_v to_o a_o bastard_n in_o marriage_n neither_o be_v bastard_n any_o where_o disallow_v by_o the_o law_n either_o in_o glanvil_n or_o bracton_n for_o have_v land_n give_v in_o free-marriage_n 2._o that_o the_o law_n be_v so_o take_v in_o the_o time_n of_o king_n john_n and_o upward_o appear_v by_o sundry_a precedent_n of_o those_o elder_a age_n whereby_o land_n be_v give_v in_o free-marriage_n with_o bastard_n see_v one_o in_o my_o book_n of_o antiquity_n pag._n 112._o wherein_o randle_n earl_n of_o chester_n surnamed_n the_o gernoun_n give_v unto_o geva_n ridel_n daughter_n of_o earl_n hugh_n that_o be_v hugh_n lupus_n drayton_n in_o free-marriage_n with_o the_o appurtenance_n even_o as_o earl_n hugh_n give_v the_o same_o unto_o she_o in_o free-marrige_n this_o deed_n be_v make_v about_o the_o end_n of_o hen._n i._n or_o king_n stephen_n and_o that_o geva_n be_v a_o bastard_n ordericus_n a_o historian_n of_o good_a credit_n and_o contemporary_a with_o geva_n plain_o show_v for_o lib._n 4._o ecclesiasticae_fw-la historia_fw-la pag._n 522._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o hugh_n lupus_n have_v many_o bastard-son_n &_o bastard-daughter_n yet_o name_v none_o of_o they_o in_o particular_a è_fw-la pellicibus_fw-la plurimam_fw-la sobolem_fw-la utriusque_fw-la sexûs_fw-la genuit_fw-la quae_fw-la diversis_fw-la infortunijs_fw-la absorpta_fw-la penè_fw-la tota_fw-la periit_fw-la exmentrudem_fw-la filiam_fw-la hugonis_fw-la de_fw-fr claromonte_n beluacensi_fw-la vxorem_fw-la duxit_fw-la ex_fw-la quâ_fw-la ricardum_fw-la cestrensis_fw-la comitatûs_fw-la haeredem_fw-la genuit_fw-la qui_fw-la jnvenis_fw-la liberisque_fw-la carens_fw-la naufragio_fw-la periit_fw-la so_o that_o have_v give_v a_o account_n of_o his_o wife_n and_o his_o son_n by_o she_o who_o die_v young_a and_o without_o child_n he_o will_v certain_o have_v give_v a_o account_n of_o his_o other_o child_n by_o his_o wife_n if_o he_o have_v have_v any_o other_o by_o she_o but_o ●o_o put_v it_o out_o of_o all_o doubt_n he_o tell_v we_o afterward_o lib._n 10._o eccles_n hist_o pag._n 787._o ricardus_n pulcherrimus_fw-la pver_fw-la quem_fw-la solum_fw-la ex_fw-la ermentrude_v filiâ_fw-la hugonis_fw-la de_fw-fr claromonte_n genuit_fw-la consulatum_fw-la cestriae_fw-la scilicet_fw-la tenuit_fw-la so_o that_o earl_n hugh_n only_o beget_v richard_n on_o ermentrude_v his_o wife_n &_o then_o by_o sure_a consequence_n out_o of_o his_o word_n it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o geva_n be_v be_v one_o of_o the_o earl_n bastard_n she_o be_v no_o child_n by_o ermentrude_v his_o wife_n which_o be_v clear_o prove_v without_o a_o point_n of_o law_n and_o can_v by_o any_o point_n of_o law_n be_v take_v off_o again_o if_o geva_n have_v be_v a_o lawful_a daughter_n by_o ermentrude_v than_o she_o will_v have_v be_v sole_a heir_n to_o her_o brother_n richard_n and_o aught_o to_o have_v have_v the_o earldom_n of_o chester_n which_o she_o never_o have_v nor_o ever_o claim_v see_v this_o more_o full_o in_o my_o answer_n to_o the_o defence_n of_o amicia_n pag._n 35._o to_o pag._n 40._o and_o if_o and_o shall_v run_v to_o the_o old_a subtersuge_n and_o say_v she_o may_v be_v his_o daughter_n by_o a_o former_a wife_n let_v he_o prove_v it_o and_o take_v it_o and_o she_o can_v be_v no_o daughter_n by_o a_o latter_a wife_n because_o ermentrudo_n survive_v earl_n hugh_n her_o husband_n see_v my_o historical_a antiquity_n pag._n 114._o other_o two_o precedent_n we_o have_v of_o land_n grant_v in_o free-marriage_n with_o joan_n bastard-daughter_n of_o king_n john_n 1._o one_o wherein_o king_n john_n grant_v to_o lewellyn_n prince_n of_o north-wales_n in_o marriage_n with_o joan_n his_o daughter_n the_o castel_n of_o ellesmere_n in_o shropshire_n tenendum_fw-la ei_fw-la &_o haeredibus_fw-la suis_fw-la qui_fw-la de_fw-fr eo_fw-la &_o praedictâ_fw-la filiâ_fw-la nostrâ_fw-la exierint_fw-la de_fw-la nobis_fw-la &_o haeredibus_fw-la nostris_fw-la in_o liberum_fw-la maritagium_fw-la salvis_fw-la conventionibus_fw-la inter_fw-la nos_fw-la &_o ipsum_fw-la de_fw-la terrâ_fw-la &_o eodem_fw-la maritagio_fw-la factis_fw-la etc._n etc._n dated_n anno_fw-la sexto_fw-la johannis_n regis_fw-la 1204._o see_v the_o deed_n at_o large_a in_o the_o advertisement_n to_o the_o reader_n at_o the_o end_n of_o my_o book_n style_v sir_n thomas_n manwaring_n lawcase_n mistake_v pag._n 53._o transcribe_v from_o the_o record_n in_o the_o tower_n of_o london_n 2._o another_o see_v in_o my_o book_n of_o antiquity_n pag._n 152._o wherein_o it_o be_v covenant_v that_o john_n the_o scot_n nephew_n of_o randle_n earl_n of_o chester_n and_o lincoln_n by_o his_o elder_a sister_n shall_v marry_v helen_n daughter_n of_o lewellyn_n prince_n of_o north-wales_n and_o that_o the_o say_v lewellyn_n shall_v give_v to_o the_o say_v john_n in_o free-marriage_n all_o the_o manor_n of_o budford_n in_o warwickeshire_n and_o the_o manor_n of_o suttehele_n in_o worcester_n shire_n cum_fw-la omnibus_fw-la pertinentiis_fw-la sicut_fw-la dominus_fw-la johannes_n rex_fw-la ea_fw-la illi_fw-la dedit_fw-la in_o libero_fw-la maritagio_fw-la etc._n etc._n this_o deed_n be_v make_v about_o 6._o hen._n 3._o anno_fw-la christi_fw-la 1222._o now_o that_o the_o say_v joan_n be_v a_o bastard-daughter_n of_o king_n john_n take_v these_o several_a authority_n vincent_n upon_o brook_n pag._n 204._o speed_v history_n p._n 518._o stow_n annal_n augment_v by_o howes_n pag._n 167_o 168._o polychronicon_n translate_v into_o english_a by_o trevisa_n lib._n 7._o cap._n 33._o cambdens_fw-la brittannia_fw-la in_o shropshire_n pag._n 453._o also_o daniel_n and_o fabian_n and_o milles_n catalogue_n of_o honour_n and_o sir_n richard_n baker_n history_n who_o do_v all_o call_v her_o base_a daughter_n of_o king_n john_n and_o no_o author_n at_o all_o call_v her_o lawful_a daughter_n or_o reckon_v she_o among_o the_o daughter_n by_o any_o of_o his_o wife_n some_o of_o they_o say_v she_o be_v beget_v by_o king_n john_n on_o agatha_n de_fw-fr ferrars_n and_o therefore_o these_o deed_n and_o charter_n which_o concern_v so_o great_a person_n who_o we_o can_v suppose_v to_o be_v without_o learned_a council_n about_o they_o be_v clear_a precedent_n show_v how_o the_o law_n be_v then_o take_v and_o be_v good_a deed_n convey_v the_o land_n with_o bastard_n in_o free-marriage_n in_o those_o age_n which_o land_n be_v quiet_o enjoy_v according_o and_o nothing_o can_v be_v say_v against_o they_o many_o other_o precedent_n of_o like_a nature_n in_o those_o ancient_a age_n may_v without_o doubt_n upon_o diligent_a search_n and_o enquiry_n be_v find_v out_o for_o as_o much_o then_o as_o it_o appear_v by_o the_o word_n of_o glanvil_n that_o land_n may_v then_o be_v give_v with_o any_o woman_n whosoever_o in_o free-marriage_n and_o no_o bastard_n then_o except_v or_o disallow_v by_o the_o law_n either_o in_o glanvil_n or_o bracton_n and_o that_o clear_a precedent_n of_o those_o elder_a age_n do_v prove_v and_o show_v that_o land_n do_v then_o usual_o pass_v in_o free-marriage_n as_o well_o with_o bastard_n as_o lawful_a daughter_n and_o that_o all_o deed_n by_o the_o rule_n of_o law_n be_v to_o be_v construe_v and_o understand_v according_a to_o the_o time_n when_o they_o be_v make_v how_o can_v a_o deed_n of_o service_n give_v in_o libero_fw-la maritagio_fw-la in_o the_o reign_n of_o henry_n the_o second_o with_o one_o just_o suspect_v to_o be_v a_o bastard_n be_v a_o sure_a argument_n or_o any_o argument_n at_o all_o to_o prove_v her_o legitimate_a wherefore_o it_o be_v very_o evident_a that_o in_o those_o elder_a age_n as_o the_o law_n be_v then_o take_v in_o the_o reign_n of_o king_n john_n and_o upward_o land_n lawful_o might_n &_o usual_o do_v pass_v in_o libero_fw-la maritagio_fw-la with_o bastard_n as_o well_o as_o with_o no_o bastard_n howbeit_o at_o this_o day_n our_o law_n will_v not_o permit_v the_o same_o finis_fw-la errata_fw-la page_n 7_o line_n 16_o 〈◊〉_d disease_v for_o disease_a p._n 8_o l._n 12_o you_o for_o he_o p_o 14_o l._n 10_o index_n for_o judex_n p._n 14_o l._n 19_o the_o to_o be_v expunge_v p._n 15_o l._n 9_o doterium_fw-la for_o dotarium_fw-la p._n 30_o l._n 1_o cupitalis_n for_o capita●is_n p._n 48._o last_o line_n man_n for_o man_n p._n 40_o l._n 22_o 23._o this_o this_o expunge_v the_o one_o of_o they_o p._n 58_o l._n 19_o 20._o man_n man_n expunge_v the_o one_o of_o they_o p._n 42_o mispage_v for_o 59_o p._n 76._o in_o the_o margin_n seaccarium_n for_o seaccarium_n
other_o judge_n in_o those_o age_n sure_o it_o be_v ancient_o use_v for_o any_o of_o our_o judge_n glanvil_n mention_v the_o form_n of_o original_a writ_n have_v it_o thus_o quod_fw-la sit_fw-la coram_fw-la i_o vel_fw-la justitiis_fw-la meis_fw-la so_o also_o hoveden_n and_o other_o of_o our_o ancient_a historian_n use_v capitalis_fw-la justitia_fw-la angliae_fw-la for_o the_o chief_a justice_n of_o england_n but_o bracton_n compile_v a_o book_n of_o the_o body_n of_o our_o law_n in_o latin_a under_o king_n henry_n the_o three_o he_o change_v the_o word_n justitiis_fw-la into_o justiciariis_fw-la and_o set_v down_o the_o writ_n according_o coram_fw-la justiciariis_fw-la nostris_fw-la since_o which_o time_n in_o all_o writ_n and_o commission_n upon_o record_n they_o have_v be_v style_v justitiarij_fw-la lamberds_n eirenarcha_fw-la lib._n 1._o cap._n 1._o and_o then_o for_o his_o profound_a observation_n that_o justitia_fw-la be_v here_o of_o the_o masculine_a gender_n according_a to_o the_o rule_n mascula_fw-la nomina_fw-la in_fw-la a_o dicuntur_fw-la multa_fw-la virorum_fw-la yet_o he_o have_v leave_v out_o three_o or_o four_o of_o the_o next_o word_n follow_v which_o may_v fit_o have_v be_v add_v to_o that_o book_n of_o his_o ut_fw-la scriba_fw-la assecla_fw-la scurra_fw-la &_o rabula_fw-la but_o now_o for_o the_o word_n of_o the_o deed_n it_o be_v certain_a that_o here_o earl_n randle_n call_v the_o judge_n of_o chester_n my_o chef_fw-fr justice_n and_o the_o word_n of_o the_o deed_n beforementioned_a i_o conceive_v run_v thus_o in_o english_a that_o the_o say_v andrew_n and_o his_o heir_n shall_v not_o answer_v concern_v any_o suit_n or_o complaint_n enter_v in_o the_o city_n of_o chester_n or_o without_o either_o in_o my_o presence_n or_o in_o the_o presence_n of_o my_o chief_a justice_n and_o it_o be_v a_o rare_a precedent_n without_o a_o parallel_n i_o believe_v in_o this_o kind_n that_o the_o earl_n here_o call_v he_o my_o chief_a justice_n undoubted_o for_o some_o reason_n here_o intend_v and_o but_o accidental_o neither_o possible_o in_o distinction_n from_o the_o judge_n of_o his_o inferior_a court_n for_o certain_o they_o be_v never_o call_v chief_a justice_n of_o chester_n in_o those_o age_n by_o common_a appellation_n as_o at_o this_o day_n they_o be_v call_v neither_o then_o be_v there_o more_o judge_n of_o chester_n than_o one_o at_o a_o time_n nor_o do_v this_o example_n prove_v it_o otherwise_o nor_o be_v the_o judge_n here_o style_v chief_a justice_n of_o chester_n only_o the_o earl_n here_o call_v he_o my_o chief_a justice_n speak_v as_o it_o be_v in_o his_o own_o person_n nor_o will_v this_o at_o all_o excuse_n the_o error_n and_o vain_a glory_n of_o sir_n thomas_n speak_v so_o of_o ralph_n manwaring_n and_o call_v he_o as_o at_o this_o day_n we_o call_v the_o senior_a judge_n of_o chester_n it_o be_v a_o trip_v it_o overslipt_v he_o but_o he_o will_v seldom_o acknowledge_v any_o error_n again_o this_o deed_n be_v make_v between_o the_o year_n 1188._o and_o 1200._o for_o all_o that_o while_n randle_n earl_n of_o chester_n assume_v the_o title_n of_o duke_n of_o little-brittain_n in_o france_n which_o title_n we_o see_v he_o have_v give_v to_o he_o in_o this_o deed_n but_o it_o can_v be_v firm_o collect_v that_o ralf_n manwaring_n be_v judge_n of_o chester_n at_o that_o very_a time_n when_o this_o deed_n be_v make_v for_o he_o be_v there_o subscribe_v by_o the_o name_n of_o ralf_n manwaring_n only_o not_o style_v radulfo_n manwaring_n justiciario_n cestriae_fw-la there_o as_o he_o be_v in_o many_o other_o deed_n and_o as_o he_o and_o all_o other_o be_v usual_o style_v while_o they_o be_v judge_n and_o what_o sir_n thomas_n will_v stretch_v to_o have_v it_o so_o out_o of_o my_o historical_a antiquity_n it_o will_v not_o certain_o follow_v out_o of_o my_o note_n that_o ralf_n manwaring_n be_v judge_n of_o chester_n all_o that_o time_n from_o 1188._o till_o philip_n orreby_n be_v judge_n there_o nor_o especial_o all_o the_o time_n while_o randle_n be_v duke_n of_o britain_n and_o therefore_o sir_n thomas_n can_v certain_o conclude_v as_o he_o do_v pag._n 34._o that_o ralph_n manwaring_n be_v judge_n at_o that_o very_a time_n when_o that_o deed_n be_v make_v pag._n 35._o to_o pag._n 41._o be_v thing_n not_o worthy_a my_o take_a notice_n of_o nor_o pertinent_a to_o the_o main_a point_n and_o have_v all_o former_o in_o my_o other_o book_n be_v answer_v by_o i_o over_o and_o over_o again_o and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v here_o pass_v they_o by_o although_o if_o i_o will_v cavil_v as_o sir_n thomas_n do_v at_o every_o piddle_a thing_n i_o can_v find_v many_o error_n therein_o pag._n 43._o of_o his_o answer_n to_o my_o two_o book_n here_o he_o say_v he_o be_v very_o confident_a sir_n peter_n can_v prove_v that_o person_n who_o be_v under_o age_n do_v then_o use_v to_o join_v with_o their_o mother_n and_o to_o give_v away_o their_o land_n of_o inheritance_n 2._o and_o then_o after_o a_o long_a harangue_n and_o write_v down_o of_o mr._n selden_n word_n which_o i_o have_v before_o cite_v he_o say_v pag._n 45._o which_o be_v all_o the_o answer_v he_o give_v to_o my_o precedent_n that_o be_v material_a that_o earl_n richard_n confirm_v the_o hyde_n of_o land_n which_o droco_n the_o andeleia_n have_v give_v to_o abbington-church_n and_o a_o little_a after_o add_v what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o case_n of_o hugh_n cyvelios_n who_o do_v pass_v away_o stivinghale_n to_o the_o bishop_n of_o chester_n and_o his_o successor_n for_o ever_o my_o reply_n i_o say_v it_o be_v the_o very_a selfsame_a case_n one_o as_o the_o other_o for_o earl_n richard_n and_z earl_n hugh_z do_v both_o join_v with_o their_o respective_a mother_n both_o under_o age_n but_o now_o forsooth_o the_o difference_n he_o will_v put_v be_v this_o that_o the_o one_o confirm_v another_o man_n grant_n the_o other_o grant_v away_o certain_a land_n for_o ever_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v if_o a_o grant_n of_o land_n for_o ever_o by_o one_o under_o age_n and_o join_v with_o his_o mother_n be_v invalid_a why_o a_o confirmation_n of_o land_n by_o one_o under_o age_n also_o and_o join_v with_o his_o mother_n will_v not_o be_v invalid_a likewise_o but_o this_o confirmation_n of_o land_n for_o ever_o hold_v firm_a and_o the_o land_n continue_v to_o the_o church_n of_o abbington_n according_o so_o we_o see_v how_o he_o doubt_v not_o but_o what_o be_v there_o say_v will_v give_v all_o man_n satisfaction_n without_o render_v any_o reason_n at_o all_o of_o the_o difference_n in_o those_o two_o case_n and_o i_o be_o very_o confident_a earl_n hugh_n can_v not_o be_v twelve_o year_n old_a when_o he_o join_v with_o his_o mother_n in_o the_o grant_n of_o stivinghale_n and_o if_o the_o grant_n be_v make_v about_o the_o year_n 1156._o to_o wit_n about_o two_o or_o three_o year_n after_o his_o father_n death_n i_o rather_o think_v that_o earl_n hugh_n be_v not_o above_o eight_o year_n old_a when_o he_o join_v in_o that_o grant_n but_o certain_o sir_n thomas_n be_v far_o wide_a when_o he_o say_v pag._n 45._o that_o earl_n hugh_n be_v old_a enough_o to_o take_v melyeneth-castle_n anno_fw-la 1142._o or_o that_o he_o be_v 23._o year_n old_a anno._n 1153._o in_o which_o year_n his_o father_n die_v most_o absurd_a and_o without_o any_o ground_n at_o all_o but_o since_o i_o write_v this_o second_o reply_n i_o have_v receive_v a_o sure_a record_n that_o prove_v earl_n hugh_n can_v not_o be_v above_o three_o or_o four_o year_n old_a at_o the_o death_n of_o his_o father_n anno_fw-la 1153._o and_o will_v lay_v asleep_a for_o ever_o all_o those_o false_a supposition_n of_o earl_n hugh_n age_n whereof_o see_v more_o in_o my_o peroratio_fw-la ad_fw-la lectorem_fw-la at_o the_o end_n of_o this_o my_o second_o reply_n pag._n 46._o of_o his_o answer_n to_o my_o two_o book_n here_o he_o tell_v the_o reader_n that_o i_o give_v he_o a_o pedigree_n of_o the_o baron_n de_fw-fr monte_fw-fr alto_fw-mi in_o which_o i_o make_v the_o first_o robert_n de_fw-fr monte_fw-fr alto_fw-mi who_o i_o say_v live_v in_o king_n stephen_n time_n to_o have_v issue_n two_o son_n ralph_n and_o robert_n who_o be_v afterward_o successive_o steward_n of_o cheshire_n all_o which_o say_v he_o be_v certain_o true_a i_o can_v wish_v he_o will_v as_o ingenious_o confess_v all_o other_o truth_n allege_v by_o i_o and_o then_o he_o write_v out_o a_o deed_n of_o hugh_n cyvelioc_n earl_n of_o chester_n out_o of_o my_o historical_a antiquity_n whereunto_o robertus_fw-la dapifer_fw-la de_fw-fr monte-alto_a be_v a_o witness_n 1._o and_o then_o pag._n 48._o he_o say_v this_o must_v needs_o be_v the_o first_o robert_n de_fw-mi monte-alto_a and_o if_o this_o deed_n of_o earl_n hugh_n be_v make_v immediate_o before_o the_o death_n of_o this_o robert_n then_z earl_n hugh_z be_v a_o great_a deal_n