of the doubts which may arise in many consciencious men who have been ordained by Bishops since that time which may seem to be likewise declared voyde by this Bill and so at least to discountenance all Acts which have insued by vertue of that Ordination and thereby many Questions may arise in Law concerning Marriages Legitimations and Descents of Inheritance and for many other reasons exprest in our Conference and Debate We conceive that your Lordships may be satisfied that this individuall Bill ought not to passe For the matter then of the said Bill The extirpation of Episcopacy we desire your Lordships to consider That it is evident and we conceive consented to on all parts that it hath continued even from the Apostles times by continuall Succession in the Church of Christ till within these few yeares without intermission or interruption and then how perilous a thing it must be and prejudiciall to the publique peace to remove and destroy a forme of Government so long exercised in this Kingdomâ—â—nd under which we have enjoyed as great a measure of happinesse to say no more as any Nation in Christendome and which your Lordships have not pretended to be unlawfull before wee particularly see the Modell of that Governement and Iurisdiction which is to be established in the place thereof That thereby we may be assured that it be such to which as well those who like as all those who dislike the present Governement will submit Otherwise Peace which is the maine end and pretence for Alterations cannot be established and therefore we very earnestly beseech your Lordships to consider and weigh whether without shaking Foundations it be not much better and more agreeable to Christian Prudence and Charity to remove those particulars from â—he present Government and make such alterations therein as may most probably give satisfaction to all persons seriously disturbed or afflicted in their Consciences Then by destroying the whole to give just Offence and Scandall to very many pious and Religious Persons Vnder these Considerations and for the Vniting and reconciling all Differences between Vs in the matter of Religion and procuring a blessed Peace We are willing That Freedome be left to all Persons of what Opinions soever in matters of Ceremony and that all the penalties of the Lawes and Customes which injoyne those Ceremonies be suspended That the Bishop shall exercise no Act of Iurisdiction or Ordination without the consent and counsell of the Presbyters who shall be chosen by the Clergy of each Diocesse out of the learnedest and gravest Ministers of that Diocesse That the Bishop keep his constant residence in his Diocesse except when he shall be required by His Majesty to attend Him on any occasion and that if he be not hindred by the infirmities of old Age or sicknesse he Preach every Sunday in some Church within his Diocesse That the Ordination of Ministers shall be alwayes in a publique and solemne manner and very strict Rules observed concerning the sufficiency and other Qualifications of those men who shall be received into Holy Orders and the Bishop shall not receive any into Holy Orders without the approbation and consent of the Presbyters or the Major part of them That competent maintenance and provision be established by Act of Parliament to such Vicarages as belong to Bishops Deanes and Chapters out of the Impropriations and according to the value of those Impropriations of the severall Parishes That for the time to come no man shall be capable of two Parsonages or Vicarages with Cure of Soules That towards the setling of the publique Peace one hundred Thousand pounds shall be raised by Act of Parliament out of the Estates of Bishops Deanes and Chapters in such manner as shall be thought fit by the King and two Houses of Parliament without the Alienation of any of the said Lands That the Iurisâ—iction in Causes Testamentary Decimall Matrimoniall be setled in such manner as shall seem most convenient by the King and two Houses of Parliament And likewise that one or more Acts of Parliament be passed for regulating of Visitations and against immoderate Fees in Ecclesiasticall Courts and the aâ—uses by frivolous Excommunications and all other abuses in the Exercise of Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction in such manner as shall be agreed upon by His Majesty and both Houses of Parliament And if your Lordships shall insist upon any other thing which your Lordships shall think necessary for Reformation We shall very willingly apply our selves to the consideration thereof 13. February FOr the confirmation of the Ordinances concerning the LVII calling and sitting of the Assembly of Divines and the taking the Covenant We conceive neither of them need be insisted on if the alterations of Church-Government be agreed upon between Vs And if it be not it will not be reasonable that We consent to those Ordinances And for the Covenant We cannot advise His Majesty to Sweare and signe the same nor consent that an Act of Parliament should passe for enjoyning the taking thereof by His Majesties Subjects 13. February WEE doe not yet conceive that the Directory for LVIII publicke Worship delivered to Vs by your Lordships ought to be enacted Or that it is so likely to procure and preserve the Peace of this Kingdome as the Liturgy or Common Prayer-Book already established by Law against which we have not yet received from your Lordships any objections which Liturgy as the same was compiled by many learned and Reverend Divines of whom some dyed Martyrs for the Protestant Religion We conceive to be an Excellent Forme for the Worship of God and hath been generally so held throughout this Kingdome till within these two or three yeares at the most And therefore since there are no inconveniences pretended to arise from the Book of Common-Prayer to which we conceive the Directory is not more liable and since there is nothing commendable in the Directory which is not already in the Book of Common-Prayer we conceive it much better and more conducing to the Peace of this Kingdome still to observe the said Forme with such Dispensations as we have expressed in our first Paper now presented to your Lordships and if there shall be any Alterations proposed by your Lordships of such particulars in the Book of Common-Prayer as good men are scrupled at we shall willingly endeavour to give your Lordships satisfaction in those particulars But as yet can make no further or other Answer then we have already done But shall be ready to receive such Objections as your Lordships shall think fit to make against the Book of Common-Prayer and your Reasons for introducing the Directory And for the Proposition concerning Church-Government annexed to your first Paper We have no Information how that Government shall be constituted in particular or what Iurisdiction shall be established or by whom it shall be granted or upon whom it shall depend And therein also we desire further Information from your Lordships 13. February WEE
their hands who during these troubles may turne that power against Vs. And lastly that if the distractions continued here the Forces and Wealth of this Kingdome would be so imployed at home that the prosecution of that Warre to the subduing of the Rebels was impossible but probably might be destruction of the remainder of Our good Subjects For the power given to Our Scottish Subjects in that Kingdom Our Commissioners urged that Generall Leven being to Command all the Forces in Ireland and the Committee of Scotland having a Negative voyce upon difference of opinion that Warre must either stand still to the ruine of Our Subjects there or be carryed as the Earle of Leven pleased whose power was not bounded by any refeerence to Vs or Our Lievtenant of Ireland no nor to the Houses of England and though it had bin answered that in cases of disagreement betwixt the Committee the two Houses might prosecute the War observing the Treaty of the sixt of August and the Ordinance of the 11th of April yet by referring to that Ordinance which is desired to be enacted and by that Ordinance the power being thereby put into the Earle of Leven and that Committee without mention of the two Houses it was apparent the Earle of Leven would not be bound to observe the directions of the Houses of England by themselves But they Reply in this last Paper of theirs That as the Ordinance of the 11th of April 1644. so the Treaty of the 6th of August 1642. is desired to be confirmed by which the Commander of the Scottish Forces in Ireland was to be answerable to Vs and the two Houses of the Parliament of England for his whole deportment But this is apparently no answer at all for this Treaty of the sixt of August binds not the Coommittee who are to manage that War and relates to the Scottish Generall as Generall of the Scots only the other of April 1644. being later in time giving him power also as Commander in cheife over the English Forces in Ireland and according to this later he is to receive his Orders from the Committee without reference to us or the two Houses neither can the two Houses be hereby brought in to have Command over this Scottish Generall or Committee more then Our Selves whom they intend wholly to exclude yet We cannot but observe even upon these Articles of the Treaty of the sixt of August how little cause there is to expect this Scottish Generall will manage that Warre for the good of this Kingdome who being by those Articles to be answerable to Vs as well as to the two Houses for then though the same designe was on foot yet their outward pretences were somewhat more modest then now they are did without directions from Vs leave his charge in Ireland to bring an Army into England against Vs. Well they say at last they had by the 13th Proposition desited the prosecution of the Warre to be setled in the two Houses and so taking all together that the Earle of Levâ—n cannot manage that Warre according to his owne discretion But we must remember them the Proposition is not barely to settle the prosecution of the Warre in the two Houses but to settle it in the two Houses to be managed by the joynt advice of both Kingdomes and that joynt advice is by a joynt Committee according to the Ordinance of the 11th of April in which Committee they confesse those of Scotland have a Negative Voyce and by the last part of the 17th Proposition the Warre of Ireland is to be ordered according to that Ordinance But they say The Scottish Commander is to receive Orders from the Lievtenant of Ireland if a Lord Lievtenant shall be chosen by the two Houses for a Lievtenant nominated by Vs is not allowed by them to give Orders to the Scottish Generall This indeed though not warranted by their Propositions upon which neverthelesse they insist yet being admitted in this latitude might seem to give some power to the two Houses over the Scotch Generall in the manage of the Warre as giving the Lievtenant such a power and by consequence the two Houses who have power over this Lievtenant But they say not generally that he shall receive Instructions from the Lievtenant but that he shall receive Instructions from the Lievtenant in such manner aâ— they have set downe in their Paper of the 20th of February that is when it shall be necessary for the good of that Service that he and the Commander in chiefe of the Scottish Army joyne but how shall it be for the service that he joyne with him when he shall Command no Forces with which he may joyne the Scotch Generall being by the Ordinance of the 11th of April to Command all the Forces whatsoever in Ireland But admit them to have joyned Then the Scotch Generall is to receive Instructions from the Lievtenant according to the Orders which shall be given by the Commissioners of both Kingdoms so and no otherwise Still the case is the same The Scottish Generall is not bound to obey any Orders but such as shall come mediately or immediately from the Committee of both Kingdomes And whatsoever evasions and disguises are made to cover it from Our Peoples Eyes the Scottish Committee being an equall number and having an equall share in the Counsells and their Generall having the Command of all the Forces It is apparent the whole power over that Kingdome is in effect to be transferred to them But should We admit that these Propositions did not give so great power in Ireland to Our Subjects of Scotland yet how should it be imagined that We should put the prosecution of this Warre in the two Houses in such manner as is insisted on by them so long as they maintaine a Rebellion against Vs in this Kingdom It is not denied but by their authority diverse Forces raised and the Moneys levied for Ireland were imployed against us in England and upon the same pretences that they made use of those aydes because as they alleadge in their Declaration upon that Subject that the subsistance of Ireland depended upon their wellfare here they may still make use of such Power as shall be given them for the manage of that Warre and raising Moneys for that purpose against Vs in England neither if a Peace should be concluded here could we assent that the prosecution of the warre should be setled in the two Houses excluding Our Selves as they intend it by those words The King not to molest them therein Queen Elizabeth managed the Warre in Ireland solely when the two Houses were sitting and excluded them though we insist not upon that example we should be wanting to the trust we have received from God and that care of our Subjects which lies upon us and of which We are to give him an account to exclude Our selfe They themselves know great bodies are not so fit to carry on the warre as a few and
upon the Questions formerly proposed by us We conceive that the Information given to us in debate by your Lordships to the Questions wee proposed to you in writing was 1 That the Congregationall Assemblies consist of the Ministers and Ruling Elders 2 That the Classicall Assemblies consist of many Congregationall Assemblies 3 That the Provinciall Assemblies are constituted of the severall Classicall Assemblies 4 That all these Congregationall Classicall and Provinciall Assemblies together constitute a Nationall Assembly 5 That the Authority and Iurisdiction of the severall Assemblies shall be setled by Parliament And if your Lordships have any thing else to informe us concerning this Government We desire to receive the same from your Lordships The King's Commissioners paper 3o. February WE are ready by present Conference to enter upon consideration XLIII of your Lordships first Proposition concerning Religion and shall desire to receive or give satisfaction whereby We may be of one mind in that Argument And for the better entering into this debate we desire to know whether in respect of Alteration mentioned in the third Proposition to be made in the Bill for abolishing Episcopacy you would have this individuall Bill passe or not Their Answer 3o. Feb. WE desire the Bill for the utter abolishing of Episcopacy XLIV which now remaines with His Maiesty may be passed without prejudice to us to insist upon the * The Alterations intended here and in the third Proposition are according to the Articles of the Treaty at Edenborough which see in the Appendix no. 4. and the joynt Declaration of both Kingdomes which are That whereas by the Bill the Bishops Lands are mentioned to be given to the King and other Church Lands for other uses by those Articles and Declarations they may be taken away and imployed to payment and recompence of the Scots and for paying the publique Debts and repairing of particular losses Alterations mentioned in the third Proposition and we are ready to give your Lordships a present conference upon the first Proposition concerning Religion according to your desire After a Conference wherein much time was spent in debate concerning that individuall Bill which was presented for abolishing Episcopacy their Commissioners delivered this paper 3o. Feb. WE desire your Lordships answer to our demands upon the XLV Propositions for Religion and in the first place to the Bill for abolishing of Episcopacy which hath been so much debated that upon the expiring of the first three dayes appointed to Treat concerning Religion we may be able to returne such an account to the Parliaments of both Kingdoms as may give them hopes of a happy progresse in this Treaty The King's Commissioners Answer 3o. Feb. WE conceive we have offered so weighty doubts and considerations XLVI to your Lordships in this dayes debate concerning severall parts in the Bill for abolishing of Episcopacy your Lordships having confined and limited our debate to that individuall Bill as it is now penn'd not to the consideration of abolishing Episcopacy in Generall that your Lordships cannot expect a positiue answer from us now being after eleven a clock at night touching that Bill But we shall be ready by the next day assigned for the Treaty upon this Argument to deliuer our opinions to your Lordships the which we shall be then the better able to doe when we have found by the progresse in our other debates how farre a blessed and a happy Peace is like to be advanced by our endeavouring to give your Lordships satisfaction in this particular This being the last of the three first dayes assigned for the Treaty upon Religion that subject was again taken up the 11. of Feb. being the first of the second three dayes appointed for Religion And their Commissioners delivered this paper 11th Feb. HAving received no satisfaction in the first three dayes appointed XLVII to Treat upon the Propositions for Religion we do now desire your Lordships cleare and full answer to our former demand on this subject that no farther time may be lost in a matter which doth so much concerne the Glory of God the honour of the King and the peace and happinesse of His Kingdomes The King's Commissioners Answer 11º Feb. VVE gave your Lordships as much satisfaction in the first XLVIII three dayes appointed to Treat upon the Propositions for Religion as in so short a time and upon so little information from your Lordships could reasonably be expected in a matter of so great high importance as we have given your Lordships already * That was by conference many reasons concerning the Injustice and Inconveniency which would follow upon passing the Bill for abolishing Episcopacy according to your first Proposition so we are now ready by conference to satisfie your Lordships why we conceive that the said Bill is not for the Glory of God or the honour of the King and consequently cannot be for the Peace and happinesse of His Kingdoms and if your Lordships reasons shall convince us in those particulars we shall willingly consent to what you desire if otherwise we shall offer to your Lordships our Consent to such other Alterations as we conceive may better contribute to the Reformation intended and such as may stand with the Glory of God and in truth â—e for the honour of the King and the Peace and happinesse of His Kingdoms Their Reply 11. Feb. We have received no satisfaction from your Lordships concerning XLIX the Propositions delivered in by us for Religion in the name of the Parliaments of both Kingdomes nor have you made appeare unto us any injustice or inconveniency in the passing of the Bill for abolishing of Episcopacy And as it cannot be denyed but the setling of Religion is a matter which doth highly concerne the glory of God the honour of the King and the Teace and happinesse of his Kingdomes So doe we desire your Lordships will grant those demands which have been made unto you by us to that end And we are ready by present Conference to receive what your Lordships will offer upon any of those Propositions and to returne that which may give your Lordships just satisfaction The King's Commissioners Answer 11. February YOur Lordships having expressed in your Paper of the first of L. February that there are other things touching Religion to be propounded by your Lordships to us We presume that by this time you may be enabled by your Instructions to propose the same And therefore we desire to receive them from your Lordships which we hope your Lordshipâ— will think very reasonable when you consider how incongruous a thing it will appeare to most men to consent to reall and substantiall alterations in the matter of Religion without having a view of the whole Alterations intended when at the same time there is mention of other Alterations Their Answer thereunto 11. February VVE shall deliver in very speedily that which remaines with LI. us touching Religion to be
Armies being first disbanded His Maiestie may with honour freedom and safety be present with his two Houses of Parliament at Westminster To which two particulars that is first concerning the Disbanding all Armies and then for His Majesties speedy repayre and residing at VVestminster with Honour Freedom and safety We shall if your Lordships think fit apply our selves and accordingly to morrow will be ready to deliver to your Lordships some Propositions upon that subject And if your Lordships shall concurre with us herein we hope it will be a good inducement to procure an addition of time to this Treaty according to His Majesties Proposition in his late Letter to Vs which we delivered to your Lordships Their Paper 20 Feb. VVE shall according to mutuall agreement between His Majesty CX CII and the two Houses of the Parliament of England and the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland Treat these two remaining dayes upon the three Propositions for Religion the Militia and Ireland and shall be glad to receive satisfaction in them from your Lordships as the best expedient for procuring a speedy and blessed Peace that the Armies may be disbanded and the happinesse of His Maiesties presence may againe be enjoyed by those who have nothing more in their prayers and endeavours then by His Maiesties coniunction with his Parliament to see all these sad differences composed and these distracted Kingdomes restered to their Ancient happinesse and security Accordingly we shall be ready to begin againe to morrow upon the Propositions for Religion and receive what your Lordships will propose and being satisfied upon that and the other two Propositions we are confident we shall have further time given us to Treat upon such other particulars as shall be necessary for the attaining of those ends we all desire There was no other Answer given concerning His Majesties Commissioners desire to Treat touching His returne to Westminster and Disbanding Armies whereupon His Majesties Commissioners delivered this Paper 20. February VVE conceive that the reasons why your Lordships doe CXCIII not give us any Answer to our Paper concerning the Treating for the disbanding all Armies and for His Majesties comming to Westminster may be because you have no authority by your Instructions so to doe though we proposed the same to your Lordships and doe still conceive it most conducing to the conclusion of the Propositions upon Religion the Militia and Ireland upon which we have Treated And we therefore desire your Lordships that you will endeavour to have your Instructions so enlarged that we may Treat upon so important and necessary an expedient for the publique Peace In the mean time we shall be ready to receive whatsoever your Lordships please to propose in the businesse of Religion presuming that if your Lordships are not satisfied with our Answer therein in which we have applyed remedies to whatsoever hath ever been complained of as a grievance in the present Government of the Church that your Lordships will make it appeare * See their Paper no. 68. referring to this that the Government by Bishops is unlawfull or that the Government you intend to introduce in the roome thereof is the only Government that is agreeable to the word of God either of which being made evident to us we shall immediately give your Lordships full satisfaction in that you propose The King's Commissioners Paper 22. February BY our paper delivered to your Lordships 1. February we CXCIV did desire to know whether your Lordships have any Instructions concerning His Majesties Propositions for setling a safe and well grounded Peace And by our paper of the third of Feb. we did desire to know whether your Lordships had received any Instructions concerning that Proposition of His Majesty for a Cessation and if your Lordships had not received any that you would endeavour to procure authority to Treat thereupon And by our Paper of the 10th of Feb. we did desire to know whether your Lordships had received any Instructions concerning His Majesties Propositions that we might prepare our selves to Treat upon them when your Lordships should think fit And by our paper delivered to your Lordships 14th Feb. we moved your Lordships upon directionâ— received from His Majesty that you would endeavour to procure an addition of time for this Treaty after the expiration of the dayes limited for the same upon the reasons mentioned in His Majesties Letter which Letter we then delivered to your Lordships And by our Paper delivered to your Lordships the 20th of this month we moved your Lordships to endeavour an addition of time for this Treaty after the expiration of the dayes limited for the same upon the reasons mentioned in His Maiesties said Letter to which we have not yet received full Answer Nor have we yet had any notice from your Lordships whether the two Houses of Parliament have given any further time for this Treaty And having hitherto according to the order prescribed us Treated onely upon the three first heads of Religion the Militia and Ireland and the twenty dayes expiring this day we againe desire to know whether there is any addition of time granted for this Treaty our safe Conduct being but for two dayes longer Their Answer 22. Feb. YOur Lordships Papers of the first third and tenth of Feb. CXCV. whether we had any Instructions concerning His Majesties Propositions and power to Treat for a Cessation as also your Papers of the 14 and 20th of Feb. concerning His Majesties Letter for an addition of time to this Trenty with your Lordships desire thereupon have been by â—â— sent up to both Houses of Parliament from time to time as we received them together with our Answer given to them and in our Answers we have from time to time declared to your Lordships that when the Houses shall be satisfied in the good progresse of the Treaty upon their Propositions concerning Religion Militia and Ireland they will give an addition of time for the Treaty And we doe conceive that if your Lordships Answers to our Demands concerning Religion the Militia and Ireland had been such as to have given satisfaction in the good progresse of this Treaty mutually consented for twenty dayes upon the said Propositions we should have before this been enabled with power to continue the Treaty aswell upon his Majestie 's as the rest of the Propositions But your Lordships having not given full and satisfactory Answers concerning Religion the Militia and Ireland you cannot for the reasons above mentioned expect an addition of time neither have we received any Instructions to continue this Treaty longer then the twenty dayes of which this is the last And as for your Lordships safe Conduct we conceive the three Sundayes last past being not accompted any dayes of the Treaty so this next Sunday is not to be esteemed one of the two dayes allowed after the Treaty in your Lordships safe Conduct but your Lordships are to have two dayes besides this next