his election be vncerteine or vnlaufull Must he yeat Nowell fol. 115. a. 2 be the moste certeine and onely iudge If the election be not lauful it giueth to the elected person Dorman no right VVhat if we haue a shee pope suche as was pope Ioane otherwise Nowell Iohn the eight What iff that be a lye and to be founde in no storye Dorman of worthy credite Iff suche a chaunce should yeat happen then were there no pope but for the time the See vacant VVhat if the popes successours doe disanull their praedecessours Nowell popes decrees c In matters perteining to thinges indifferent it maye so Dorman chaunce time and place so requiring but in faithe and doctrine deliuered to the whole church that any such chaunge or alteration hath happened you are not able to shewe nor euer shall and therfore you might haue kepte this what if with the rest in youre purse Thus are these doubtes of youres answered M. Nowell and so shall I trust the other great manie mo that you threaten me withall which you loked for belike at the writing hereof to come shortly from Franckeforde marte The pope is not iudge in his owne cause The cause is A. 19. gods and the churches So I tolde yow before Yow make muche a doe to proue that the scriptures are the waye of truthe iudgementes yea and iudgementes off truthe whiche no man denieth For it hathe bene allwaies graunted vnto yow that the scriptures conteine all truthe in them sufficient to confirme all true doctrine and to ouerthrowe the contrarie when by the voice of the churche they are interpreted and made manifest When we harcken to the popes interpretation of scripture we acknowledge and so ought all true catholikes that we heare the holy gost speaking by his mouthe in which case we saie that the credite whiche we giue to his sentence is not giuen to him as he is a man but to gods worde whereby we are taught that the thing whiche mannes nature coulde not obteine Christe God and man obteined for Peter the first pope of Rome Lucae 22. that is that his faithe shoulde not faile and so consequently for all that shoulde after him succede in the gouernement of the churche And so is youre texte answered God is true but euerie man is a lier Or elles we coulde not be assured of that which the prophetes and Apostles teache vs. Of the title heade of the churche of England giuen to oure late souereigne Kinge Henry the 8. The 31. Chapter I ASKED here by occasion of that foolishe reason of fo 116. a. 1. your Apologie Christ is heade of the church Ergo it hath or nedeth no other how it happened then that youre companions gaue to kinge Henry the 8. the title of heade of the churche of Englande and yow youre selues to oure moste gratiouse lady his daughter the same also in effecte To this yow saie If it will please yow to resorte to the recordes of the 22. and 24. Nowell 1. b. 7. yeares of King Henry the 8. there shall yow finde who they were that first offred this title to the saide Kinge there shall yowe finde that all Abbottes and other religiouse all the bishoppes Deanes Archedeacons and cleargie of both the houses of the conuocation then liuing gaue him that title To the latter question of the Quenes maiestie to that yowe will shortly answere yowe saie but presently yow doe not When yow haue ransacked all the recordes and saide all Dorman that yow can to make the Catholikes oure forefathers partakers withe yow of this facte yeat is this moste surelie recorded in all mennes remembraunce that all Catholikes ioyned not with yow and those that did were folowers and no leaders consented to that title which was required and offred it not of their owne motion The first auctors that put that wicked deuise in to the kinges moste noble heade were not the catholikes but heretikes and the scholers of Luther suche as were Cromwell Cranmere and other I speake not this notwithstanding to excuse them who confesse their owne faultes and are moste sorie and penitent therefore This was a case wherein we maie saie withe oure forefathers peccauimus iniusté egimus iniquitatem fecimus We haue sinned we haue done vniustly we haue committed iniquitie But what is all this to the purpose What if the catholikes did amisse withe yow as they did how can yowe answere this standing in youre wicked opinion still that a particuler church maie haue one heade gouernour vnder Christe in earthe and the whole maie not To that yow saie I truste the reason is not to seeke in the good readers memorie Nowell fo 117. a. 22. seing it hathe bene so ofte declared before yet will I answere M. Dormans question by an other question Yow burden verie sore the readers memorie to remembre Dorman that which hetherto yowe neuer vttred Yow are not wont to be so daungerouse I reporte me to the reader to repeate one thing diuerse times but there was good cause that yow shoulde here doe as yow did to wit because yow are not hable standing in strength the argument of youre Apologie to giue anie reason why the churche of one particuler realme hauing two prouinces two archebishoppes and vndre them aboue 20. bishoppes whereof Christe is as muche the heade as of the whole churche shoulde more haue an other heade beside Christ ouer all these particuler heades then all the particuler heades of Christes vniuersall churche shoulde haue an other heade beside Christe ouer them Yeat I knowe yowe meane that reason of youres whiche being so foolishe so wicked and blasphemouse that one man is not hable to rule and gouerne vndre Christe the whole churche alone yow haue so often repeated hauing no other shift of descant that euen verie shame compelleth yow now at the last to wrappe and inuolue it in silence As for the answere that yowe make by a question VVhy one kingdome maye haue in earth vnder God one head and the whole world can not to that I saie that it is a false proposition that the whole worlde can not haue one onlye head in earth vndre God often in this youre Reproufe stoutely affirmed but neuer as yeat proued To this answere I ioyne also the seconde that the questions be not like But then you saye If M. Dorman saye the questions be not like I aske with what Nowell b. 1. face he can so saye seing that in the beginning of this his treatie he brought the example of ciuile gouernement in the whiche euery kingdome hath his king euerie countrie citie and companie haue their seuerall gouernours c. to proue that the church ought likewise to haue one head I acknowledge this example and dare further make Dorman you M. Nowell youre selfe the iudge whether these questions of youres and mine be lyke I compare one kingdome to the whole church which is also
euen nowe being come thus farre the Bishoppes answere as The 7. side § But whē I had passed the reporte went being then not fully finished and many good men muche desiring some answere and as many aduersaries as muche bragging that their bookes woulde neuer be answered the councell of some frindes and continuall bragge of so many aduersaries caused me to suffer this little taste as vntimely fruite the sooner to come abroade Yow must here imagine good Readers / that euen iust at that tyme when the reporte went that M. Iuelles answer was not fully finished / M. Nowell was come to the 15. leafe of my booke Yow must also thinke that this knowledge was brought to him by common reporte / because yowe maie not suspecte anye conference betwene them But aboue all thinges as yowe tendrelye regarde M. Nowelles pore honestie / yowe muste vnderstande two reportes / and one of them a false reporte / or elles must he be a false reporter And all this dothe M. Nowell / because for his experience he knoweth / that a lye maye better be fathered vpon reporte or common bruite / then vpon one man alone The first reporte cried as it were to M. Nowell holde youre handes for goddes sake / the B. of Sarisbury hathe killed them bothe with one blowe His answere to D. Harding is allready made / and ready to printe Herupon M. Nowell as he is a verye pitifull harted man lothe to kill them that were allready deade / by and by staied But this was false reporte / who was no soner out of sight / but in commeth the other reporte / accompanied with certeine of M. Nowelles frindes / and here began a newe crye / that he shoulde giue the onset / the bishoppes bande was not yeat ready And so he did / so harde a matter it was for him and his companions / to obteine they had gone so long vpon their credite any longre time of susteining the expectation of M. Iuelles answere / at the handes of either frindes or aduersaries / that nedes must M. Nowell be thrust furth against his will / to go before M. Iuell How likely these pretenses are to be true / time will discouer it M. Nowell staye here and goe no furder In the meane season how likely they are to be true / the wise wil be able to iudge by the circumstances of this his halting and doubtefull tale We are now come to that parte good Readers of M. Nowelles § Nowe that I haue preface / wherein he giueth certeine reasons / why he hathe so diligently largely and as it maye seme carefully also answered me whose owne doinges he affirmeth / to be more worthy of laughter then of anye earnest answere I perceiue it troubleth M. Nowell to thinke / that Demit honoem aemulus Aiaci But I pitye him the lesse / because he made the matche him selfe His reasons are / that he The first answereth not the reasons alleaged by me as mine but as D. Hardinges and not only D. Hardinges but of Eckius Pighius and Hosius yea of all those that haue written in latine for the popes vsurped power c. Lo the noble corage of M. Nowell / for whome no one man can be founde alone able to matche with him / but they must be all called furthe at once / that euer wrote in latine for the popes supremacy Which seing it is so / now be of good comforte M. Calfhill / whose Calfhill in epist. ad Martialem only sorowe yow saie was / that M. Nowell had not a more learned aduersarie Yow see that there is not only no cause of sorowe / but much occasion to reioise / that with the answering of 15. leaues of my booke / all that euer wrote for the pope shall be answered in me Where was youre witte when yow feared this Thought yow that M. Nowell woulde not prouide for suche a fowle blemishe to his honour But to the matter I am not ashamed good readers to confesse / that in writing Ipse the learned argumentes of suche as haue handled the like matter before / and that if anie reasons be weaker then other / they be those especially that be of mine owne framing And is it not so thinke yow withe M. Nowell Those emongest yow that be of the learneder sorte knowe that it is so / that in answering him I answer their Apologie / Caluin / Luther / Melancthon / Bucer / Brentius / Peter Martyr / in whose writinges the like reasons are to be founde / and that what so euer he hathe not in them / is foolishe / fonde / vnworthy to be answered The seconde The. 2. reason why M. Nowell answereth me so diligently and carefully / is he saieth / because I haue set furthe a booke sclaunderouse not to seuerall persones only but to oure whole countrie to oure lawes and to oure gratiouse Soueraigne whome he saieth I charge as vsurping vndue auctoritie sclaunderouse not at home onlye but abroade also in foraigne countries Wherefore whome so euer I shewe my selfe to be and how sclendre an answere might best become me he thought it shoulde become him not sclendrely to esteme the honour of his prince his duty to his countrye and to the lawes of the realme but with earnestnesse to repell suche reproches as I haue attempted to blemishe them withall As I haue sclaundred in my boke no priuate persons / nor saide of any one that which is not publikely knowen to be true so haue I in the whole discourse thereof / had that regarde to my duty towardes my moste redoubted soueraigne / that reuerence to her lawes / that naturall affection to my countrie / that allthough truthe of her selfe be sower and hatefull / yeat haue I bene allwaies moste far from these sclaundres wherewithe I am burdened Neither doubte I anie thinge / but if not before / yeat in that greate daye of reuelation her highnes shall moste clearely see / whether oure plaine dealing be sclaunderouse to her persone / or their hypocriticall flattry traiterouse to her soule whether he be a good bishop or no / qui laicis to vse the wordes of S. Ambrose ius sacerdotale substernit Ambr. lib. 5. epist 32. that bringeth the priestely right in subiection to laye men I charged neuer her highnesse with the vsurping of vndue auctoritie I charged those clawebackes flattring parasites for forcing vpon her grace a Fol. 28. a. in my first boke title / which Calain him selfe as I proued denied to her father And now I charge them againe for the same / and adde therunto beside / that they are the men them selues that are sclaunderouse to the Quene / to her lawes / to the whole realme First for bringing in lawes ecclesiasticall the like whereunto in all christendome are not to be founde then / for forcing vpon her grace a title / which no king or Quene christened will vse beside but aboue
the which before they fledde but of this by ioyning bothe the swordes together the spirituall and the temporall the rather to vanquishe and discomfite the enemie But nowe if it were so that emongest the rest the bishop of Rome had bene comprehended in this epistle yeat the calling of him brother or felowe in the ministerie is no cause to conclude as you doe against his auctoritie For neither doe I nowe nor euer hathe anie Catholike hetherto so defended or mainteined the popes supremacy that it hathe not bene allwaies acknowledged that bothe he and other bishoppes be the ministres of one common maister allthough that maister haue made him the ruler of his felowes and ouerseer of his brethren Yea the popes them selues haue euer vsed to call the other bishoppes their brethern and felowe bishoppes not renouncing therby the auctoritie of their seate What marueile is it therfore if the bisshoppes of the East had called the pope emongest the other to whome they wrote brother and felowe in the ministerie by the which name he calleth him selfe it can not be denied Nowe where M. Dorman speaketh of persecution as he dyd Nowell Fo. 13. a. 13 alittle before of oure moste cruell practise I referre it to the iudgement of all the worlde whether the papistes or we be more cruell persecutours and wheather haue suffred more persecution they or we If they be more cruell persecutours that lacking power Dorman shewe notwithstanding more crueltie in wordes then other doe in deedes if their crueltie be greater who punishe beside and against lawe then theirs who folowe lawe if it be no crueltie at all to punishe a fewe to saue the nombre by terrour of lighter paines to vse the wordes of S. Austen to â—ib de vinit eccl cap. 17. the Donatistes complaining of the Catholikes as you doe nowe to preserue from greater euills then is the matter iudged allreadie in all vpright iudgement then nedeth there no furder processe As for the lenitie by the which you woulde commende youre selues to the worlde youre charitable sermones made aswell before the Quenes moste excellent maiestie at the courte as before the nobles and other honorable of the Realme at the Crosse in the which yow haue consumed all youre eloquence to prouoke oure moste gratiouse soueraigne to imbrue her chaste and vnspotted handes with the innocent bloude of true Catholikes hathe long since made that wel knowen to the worlde So that I maye nowe truly saye to yow as did S. Austen to certeine heretikes in his time bragging of their lenitie towardes the catholikes as you doe of youres Nulla bestia si Epist. 48. neminem vulneret propterea mansueta dicitur quia dentes vngues non habet Seuire vos nolle dicitis ego non posse arbitror No beaste if he wounde no man is therfore called tame because he lacketh teethe and nailes you saye you will vse no crueltie I thinke yow can not Is not this youre verie case M. Nowell See you not a perfect pattern of youre pitie a copy of youre dissembled and countrefeite kindenesse O were youre murdering mouthes by oure most gratiouse Souereignes commaundement vnmoosseled which god for her sake forbid youre bloud thirsty handes at libertie how woulde these tame beastes bestirre them You saye that I go about to burthen you with enuie of churches either pulled downe or altered to other vses and of altars Nowell a. 12. destroied muche like as the rebelles did burthen king Henry the eight c. How the rebelles burdened king Henry or whether Dorman they burdened him at all or no as you saye they did I will not entremedle my selfe therein Of this I am suer that you be burdened of me none otherwise then S. Hierome burdened the Hunnes and wandalles being infected Epist ad HeliodoruÌ„ with Arrius heresie when he wrote of them after this sorte The churches be ouerthrowen at the altars be horses stabled and a litle after Howe manye monasteries be their taken And againe none otherwise then Optatus the bishop of Lib. 6. coÌ„â—â—â— Donatist Mileuite in Afrike burdened the Donatistes there doing the like when he tolde them that there coulde be no greater sacrilege then to breake shaue and remoue cleane away the altars off God on the whicht bothe they them selues some tymes had offred and the prayers off the people and membres off Christ were caried As for youre excuse that you make why Abbayes were ouerthrowen in oure countrye it is not trulie muche pertinent to oure purpose in this place For had it bene all true whereof the greatest parte was moste certeinely false that you sclaunderously and falsely laied to the charges of religiouse men emongest whome as there were manie offendours euen those that haue bene since in England greate pillers and in youre newe churche chiefe fauourers of youre newe religion so were there manie innocent and good who ceassed not daie and night to lament the disordred life of those other their brethren to praie most earnestly to almighty god for their sinnes and the sinnes of the people yeat was this no cause sufficient to turne vp the churches to ouerthrowe the altars Which you youre selfe also perceiuing and knowing that aswell in king Henries time those good fathers of the Chartrehouse as in the late reigne of Quene Marie bothe they in Shene the moÌ„ckes of westminstre the Franciscanes of Grenewich the preachers of S. Bartilmewes the nonnes of Sion and Dertford liued euery ordre so honestlie in all vertue and godlines according to their rule that manie wer edified by their good examples none offeÌ„did by their euil yow flee to an other shifte against the fundations off suche religiouse houses forsothe Which because you say were laied vpoÌ„ prayer for the redemption Nowell fol. 13. 2. 23. of the soules of their founders and their progenitours soules c. Were so vnsuer and weake or rather wicked that they coulde no longre beare suche huge superstructions and buildinges as were laied vpon them Well suche fundations maye be well counted weake Dorman or rather wicked by wicked Aerius who was condeÌ„ned for Aug. lib. de haeresib haer 53. lib. 3. haere 75. the like heresie as witnesse bothe S. Austen and Ephiphanius aboue 12. hundred yeares since But to all good Christian men they seme and euer haue done proufitable and meritoriouse as to him that will take the paines to reade the boke of late learnedly written of purgatorye it shall I doubt not euideÌ„tly appeare Beside that by this meanes our colleages at home in the vniuersities yea your cathedrall churche and Deanery it selfe M. Nowell might be in some daunger to be ouerthrowen if you fal to suche scanning of their first fundations Here you compell me to entre with you into a disputation about altars And for the iustifieng of your communion Fol. 14. b. Altars Nowell 1. Cor. 10. table you alleage first that oure sauiour instituted the sacrament at a
is likely inough to tell you that I maie iustlier saie to you that suche talke procedeth not so muche from the absurditie of the matter as b. 12. Nowell Fo. 32. a. 6. it dothe from the disposition of youre noddies nowle M. Nowell and sight not dimme but altogether blinde then you doe to me affirming the contrarie that it maye seme to some that suche kinde of speache springeth not so muche out of the absurditie of the matter as out of the disposition off my drowsy head * Note that M. Nowel aloweth to bishoppes the ordre of religion to kinges and other gouernours the procuring of ciuile ordre and peace Dorman It foloweth that schismes and troubles rising in the church maye by the seuerall bishoppes of euerie diocesse and seueral chiefe prelates of euerie prouince aswell be auoided and appeased as the seuerall kinges of euerie kingdome the seuerall gouernours of euerie countrie and citie c. are able to ouersee their seuerall charges and to kepe their people in ciuile ordre and peace Not so M. Nowell the reason of difference betwe these two states of ecclesiasticall and temporall gouernement is greate For in the one that is in that which perteineth to the The difference betwene the two states off the world and the church worlde euery kingdom euery nation euery people haue their propre and seuerall lawes yea often times not diuerse onely but cōtrarie the one to the other This bredeth no disordre because they be diuerse bodies But to come to the church which as it is one so hath it by Christ one faith the same lawes the same sacramentes deliuered to be cōmon to all that wil be membres thereof without varietie in matters of substāce here what nede is thereof one head that this one faith may be of all mē and euery where inuiolably holden Seing that euen in kingdomes and common wealthes daily experience telleth vs that how well and quietly so euer such kinges and rulers gouerne their subiectes them selues they be not yeat hable so to gouerne while I proude and thou proude eche one thinketh him selfe as good as the other that they can absteine from mortal and cruel battaile wherby their innocent people perishe ful oftē on both sides most miserably If this be so emōgest worldly kinges where the dissenting of their lawes and ordonaūces the one from the other is no breach of amitie how much more is it to be feared emongest bishoppes where one faith must be common in all where vnitie maye be so lightely broken Which if it happen howe shoulde it be suppressed The debates and quarelles of princes are tried for moste parte by battaile Will you that in this case eache bishop make his frēdes and trie the matter by most voices The chiefe prelates you saie of euery prouince are able to take ordre in the matter What M. Nowell is the winde in that dore Haue yow so soddenly founde a superioritie in bishoppes that so lately before pronounced that as no man hathe anye Superioritie in baptisme or in faithe aboue other truly faithefull and baptised so no one bisshop hathe any Superioritie ouer other bishoppes Is it nowe at the length founde out that you mistooke S. Cyprian M. Nowel contrary to him selfe in one leafe when in the 22. leafe of youre boke a. you grounded vpon him that there was no difference of dignitie emongest bishoppes Maye yow not be ashamed in this verie leafe firste to saie that there be chiefe prelates in euery prouince and yeat after in the seconde side of the same leafe to affirme by the auctoritie of S. Ciprian wrongly construed that none but naughty and desperate men doe thinke the auctoritie off some bisshoppes to be inferiour to other Will you nedes be of the nombre of those naughty and desperate men Well M. Nowell as verye necessitie forced yow to go from that principle of youres that all bisshoppes be of equall auctoritie because otherwise you sawe that schismes coulde not possibly be kepte oute of particuler churches so shall I trust the same before yow and I haue ended force you to acknowledge a chiefe prelate ouer the whole and vniuersall churche for the appeasing of schismes therein In this pointe because the verye necessitie of one heade to gouerne Christes churche dothe specially consist I shall desire the learned reader to vse good circumspection and with aduised deliberation to waye with him selfe the reasons brought on bothe sides I obiect therefore to M. Nowell that for the appeasing of schismes and restoring the church being troubled to quietnes it is necessary that there be one chiefe heade He maketh me answere as you heard before that the seuerall chiefe prelates of euery prouince are aswell able An absurde doctrine that schismes may as wel be appeased by manie heades as by one to take ordre therfore as the seuerall gouernours of euery countrie for their seuerall charges The absurditie of this answere shall appeare by a demonstration There is nowe a controuersie in their newe churche of Englande about no small matter but concerning the reall presence of Christes blessed bodie in the sacrament M. Gest preaching at Rochester for the reall presence M. Grindall at London for the contrary Shall these two prelates be tried by M. D. Parkar of Cauntorbury suspected to be a Lutheran Although that I thinke M. Nowel would be lothe to graunte being him selfe a Caluinist yeat if he did and the matter were thoroughly decided on the one side might not the like schisme arise in the prouince of Yorke and bachiler Yong there calling his brethern together determine the cōtrouersy on the other side If this shoulde happen as it easely might in this equalitie of power betwene these two in these seuerall prouinces how should the schisme be appeased They wolde perhappes procure a parliament to be called that by auctoritie thereof the matter might be determined Were the bishoppes that coulde not agree before like the sooner to forsake their cōtentiouse mindes by this meanes Or should the matter be put only to the debating of the laitie Or howe euer it were the matter being brought thither and then the ordre of the house being suche that it must passe as wel through the lower house as the higher might not the house be equally diuided or the thinge brought to so narowe a pointe that the conclusion of this weightie controuersie might depende vpon the mouthe of some simple burgoise and meane artificer who might easely by lacke of iudgement choose the worse part Or if they all agreed vpon the truthe might not the like controuersie arise in Fraunce Germanie Spaine or in some other countrie and euery one determine either in this article or any lyke contrary to the other If they did as by the confesion of Augspurg and their communion boke allowed by the parliament of Englande the one so muche disagreing with the other it appeareth they doe shoulde not the churche in this case be
the worlde This one heade executed the censures of the churche vpon See M. Doctor Hardinges booke the seconde edition fol. 111. b. malefactours and transgressours of the ecclesiasticall canons confirmed the ordinations and elections off bishoppes approued or disalowed councelles restored bishoppes wrongfully condemned and depriued receiued into the church such as had erred and gone a straie and all this thorough out the whole worlde But with all this I saye I will not presse you because youre Apologie and you be it neuer so easy to be proued will yeat for your honour sake perhappes denie it Only this I aske of yow how yow be not ashamed to saie that it is impossible for one man to gouerne the whole churche seing by youre owne confession for 900. yeares it hathe bene so If yow will saie that the churche hathe bene euill gouerned these latter 900. yeares allthough that yow coulde right well proue as you shal neuer be hable what maketh that for this assertion off youres that one man can not possybly gouerne the whole churche conteining to vse yowre owne wordes so manie nations so diuerse Languages and natures of men Howe proueth it that one generall heade can not so ouersee his charge that he shall be able to kepe all churches from schismes and troubles and pacifie them when they are risen If one man alone coulde for the space of 900. yeares so rule all churches dispersed thorough out all the worlde that he Note was able to plant emongest so manie nations so diuerse languages and natures of men one naughty and corrupte faithe as yow saie might not the same or maye not an other with as muche facilitie haue planted or plant if it were to be planted a truthe thorough out the whole worlde If the churche haue bene so gouerned during this terme of 900. yeares that all the affaires of the churche haue by one heade bene so ordered that no membre hath had iust cause to complaine that all membres haue agreed in perfecte quietnesse one with an other and all with their heade as youre selfe hereafter confesse allthough yow labour to qualifye the matter in this wise In deede we must nedes confesse a truthe M. Nowels confession cōcerning the quiet agrement vnder the gouernement off the Pope fol. 56. b. 25. that whilest we all remained vnder the quiet obedience off youre Romishe heade in doctrine of his traditiōs there was a coloured hinde of quietnesse concorde and loue emongest all the membres of that heade the subiectes of that one gouernour and ruler and specially emongest the cleargie of that one churche if I saye by youre confession there was suche a quiete agreing thorough out all the worlde in false doctrine will you still abide by it that the same one heade that gouerned in this peasable maner all the worlde whome he fedde with euill doctrine might not haue gouerned them as quietly if he had deliuerd to them sounde and wholesome doctrine Or will you saye that God can doe lesse in procuring good thinges then the diuell in promoting euill that God can make one man hable alone to gouerne all the worlde without schismes or to appease them being moued as great as it is in euill gouernement but not in good If you will not saye thus you must nedes saie that it is nothing impossible for one man assisted by goddes grace to gouerne the churche of the whole worlde were it greater then it is and so to confesse with all that the Apologie in saing the contrary and yow in defending the Apologie haue bothe off yow falsely blasphemously and foolishely erred As for the reason whereunto the Apologie and yow leane that as God hathe giuen to no one king to be aboue all so to no one bishop to rule the whole churche that is as I tolde you before to appoint God because he hathe made manie kingdomes to make many heades of the churche which is but one and so consequently to multiply religions and make many faithes But because you repeate verie often this comparison and thinke it so absurde that there shoulde be any more one heade ouer the whole churche thē one chiefe king aboue all the kingdomes in the worlde I will here proue that within the first six hundred yeares it was taken for no absurditie There is no man I thinke that hathe bestowed anie time in the ecclesiasticall histories ignorant what a doe Theodora the Empresse wife to Iustinian the Emperour made to haue Siluerius the pope depriue Menna the good archebishop of Constantinople and to restore Anthimius the heretike laufully before by Agapetus the pope depriued To the which wicked attempt when by no meanes the good pope coulde be brought to consent false accusations were brought in against him and so he was by tirannie remoued and cōstreined to flee to a towne called Patara of the prouince of Lycia Whither the emperour Liberatus in Breuiario cap. 22. on a time comming the bishopp there as Liberatus the Archedeacon of Carthage writeth complaining to him and calling to witnesse the iust and terrible iudgemēt of God for the vniust expulsion of the bishop of so greate a seate addeth at the last these wordes Multos esse in hoc Many Kinges to gouerne the worlde one pope to gouerne the churche mundo reges non esse vnum sicut ille papa est super ecclesiam mundi totius a sua sede expulsus that there are manie kinges in this worlde and that there is no one only kinge as that pope is ouer all the whole churche of the worlde expelled from his seate Doe you not here see M. Nowell that within the first 600. yeares the whole worlde was gouerned by one heade in spirituall matters without anie necessitie to haue it so gouerned in temporall Woulde this good bishop is it credible being a suter to the Emperour if the churche had not bene gouerned by one heade at that time or if it had bene an absurditie that there shoulde be one chiefe bishop and manie equall kinges haue dasshed the Emperour in the mouthe with suche an absurde and flatte lye Or woulde the Emperour vpon this talcke immediatly haue caused Siluerius to be called backe againe into Italie and not rather haue checked the bishop for abusing him with a lye if he had not acknowledged his wordes to be true Thus muche I trust maye serue to make the indifferent reader vnderstande that I reprehended not the Apologie without iust cause You re railing against me because it is as youre selfe cōfesse fol. 39. a. beside the matter I passe ouer But so can I this by no meanes that yow take it for no reproche yow saye to haue Nowell b. 1. youre congregation secrete scattred and vnknowen to all the worlde because this is common to yow with the primitiue churche of oure Sauiour Christe and his holie Apostles Considre I beseche the good Reader whether these newe Dorman vpstart heretikes of oure age be not brought
The wordes I alleaged before it shall here suffise to note the places There was neuer yeat suche a gouernour as coulde so rule his charge were it of anye compasse that there were not manye thinges amisse therein The churche off Rome hathe bene so gouerned that it was neuer hetherto steined with heresies whiche seing none of the other apostolicall seates can saye bothe must yow be inforced to acknowledge Gods mightye prouidence in preseruing the same and to graunte withall that if that ordre to haue one generall heade ouer the whole churche were nowe to begin and the heade to be chosen that there were none to be preferred before the bishop of that See Because yow make mention of S. Paule who thinketh him vnmete to haue 1. Timoth. 3. the charge of one churche that can not gouerne well his owne house you put me in remembraunce that S. Ambrose expounding the same place calleth Damasus the pope the ruler of the whole churche And so there is one witnesse more by youre good occasion giuen to proue that this maner of heade was not vnknowen in the primitiue churche and that therefore you falselye slaundered the late popes and so haue encreased the nombre of youre lyes Two lies 40. with two mo If no man maye haue vnder his gouernaunce greater compasse then that he can tell if he be required the names off the cities townes villages hamlettes c. that he is king or Lorde ouer and in what parte of his realme they stande yow will with youre wise diuinitie bring the worlde to a good passe shortlye It is not necessarie that the Frenche kinge the Kinge of Spaine the Quene oure maistres or anye other Prince doe knowe the names of all the partes that they be chiefe gouernours of It suffiseth that their inferiour officiers doe and that if there arise anie suche controuersie as they be not able to ordre and determine they maye then aduertise the chiefe gouernour off all who maye by his greater power redresse the same Euen so is it in the Pope M. Nowell who hathe the ouersight of the whole churche not to gouerne all the membres thereof hym selfe by him selfe but by the helpe of his brethren who are called into parte of that charge with him That Zozimus the bishoppe of Rome corrupted not the canons off the Nicene councell The 16. Chapitre BECAVSE yow shall not suppose M. Nowell that I answere here to youre by talke of Zozimus as forced by necessitie but onelye as I tolde you before for this that allthough it be not pertinent to the matter it is yeat a foule fol. 46. b. 3. sclaunder to that blessed bishop and brought commonlye by youre maisters to bring into hatred the See of Rome I will this tell you before hande that yow are lyke to haue as litle honestye by the proposing of this exception in forme of lawe against my witnes as you had worshippe when being prolocutour in the conuocation house yow woulde as it is reported haue first passed by the house that they shoulde all be taken for heretikes that woulde not agree to a lawe that shoulde be afterwarde made And when yow thought to conclude being earnest to haue youre wise deuise take place vpon the silence that then was in the house euerye man being astonied at so foolishe a demaunde by this maxime in the lawe Qui tacet consentire videtur he that holdeth his peace semeth to consent where a wise man and a greate lawier telling you that in making of lawes the consent must be expresse and not presumed you sate downe in youre place as wise as before you stode vp If here therefore happening vpon the rule Qui semel est malus semper praesumitur malus He that is once euill is euer presumed naught yow thought that if you were able to proue Zozimus a falsefier yow shoulde discredite also Leo because he was a pope as well as the other you were surelie greatelye deceaued For this rule is personall M. Nowell and not locall Otherwise because it is in anye courte in Englande a good exception against his testimonie that seruing sometimes in youre churche of Powles and being nowe one of youre chiefe preachers stale away the chalice a man might take the same exception to anye other honest man of the same church But this being I suppose well inough knowē how childish and vnsauorie a kinde of proufe howe farre from the purpose this that you bring of Zozimus is let vs examine howe true it is that he falsefied the canons of the councell of Nice How proue yow this to be true M. Nowell I praye yow I proue it saie yow not by two onelie but by 217. witnesses Nowell fo 46. b. 23 the whole councell of Afrike emongest whome was S. Austen Orosius Prosper with manie other bishoppes notable in learning and vertue Well I am content to winke at yow M. Nowell as cruell Dorman M. Nowell reiecting Leo as witnes in his owne cause alleageth the Africanes in their own cause Nowell fo 47. a. 1. as yow were with me for bringing the testimonie of Leo in his owne cawse and I will be ignorant that this was the Africanes cause or that they were Africane bishoppes that gaue this sentence that you speake of But what be the wordes I praie yow that they vse against Zozimus Doe they call him expresselye a corrupter and a falsifier They all as in their epistle to Celestine one of the successours of this Zozimus appeareth testifie that there was no suche matter for the B. of Romes superioritie as was by pope Zozimus alleaged neither in their vsuall copies of the Nicene councell neither in the authenticall examples which were sent them by Cirill patriarke of Alexandria and by Atticus patriarke of Constantinople which authenticalles agreing with their owne copies and all other copies euerie where had no suche thing as Zozimus alleaged but had the cleane contrarie for that the 6. and 7. decree off the saide Nicene councell make the patriarkes of Alexandria Antiochia and Hierusalem equall with the B. of Rome If this be all M. Nowell then are yow a corrupter and Dorman a falsifier of the sainges of 217. bishoppes The mo they be 217. bishoppes sclaundred by M. Nowell in nombre the greater in vertue and learning the more is youre faulte to be detested of all men They saide that they had receiued from Cyrillus and from Atticus certeine copies of the Nicene councell in the which they coulde finde no suche thing as the pope claimed What thereof M. Nowell was then the copie that Zozimus had at Rome falsified Or if it were falsified must it nedes be by and by falsified by Zozimus Might he not alleage it as he founde it left by his predecessours Seing these learned fathers neuer vsed suche wordes but on the contrarie parte called him in their lettres to Bonifacius after his deathe beatae memoriae Venerabilis memoriae of blessed remembraunce of
youre obiection made of circuncision whiche you saye I maie aswell proue to be to be vsed nowe because it was vsed in the olde lawe as proue the necessitie of one chiefe heade therby No that I can not I will in fewe wordes tell you a cause why The newe lawe is called by the scripture Hebr. 9. tempus correctionis the time of reformation because it correcteth and reformeth the olde whiche brought nothing to perfection Circuncision in the olde lawe was one of Hebr. 7. those thinges that God woulde in the time of grace take awaye and substitute in the place therof a better that is Baptisme So was not the placing of one heade ouer the Synagoge which being done for the quieting of controuersies you maye be suer God would no lesse shoulde continue in the ordre of his churche which he loued so dearely then in the Synagog which was but a figure thereof And yeat if we shoulde folowe youre iudgement the wisdome of God which came to reforme the olde lawe and make a newe perfecte lawe should by appointing ouer his churche manie heades for one make the lawe in that pointe lesse perfecte then was the other Thus you see I can not reason as you saye I might circuncision in respect of baptisme being vtterly an imperfection of the lawe whereas that ordre of one chiefe prieste was moste perfite and appointed to continue for euer excepte you can proue that God hath changed that ordre for the better as he hath in taking awaye circuncision This first side of the. 64. leafe conteineth no other matter fol. 64. a. then greate bragges of the Apologie withe a prophecie of M. Nowells that none of the Romishe cleargie shal euer be able to answere it to anie purpose That prophecie is now thankes be to God proued false and M. Nowell withall a vaine lier and a pelting prophete And nowe I thinke M. Nowell a false prophetâ— that by this time all honest men will maruell the lesse to see so manie lies in this Reproufe of M. Nowelles seing that he hath bene so friendely to shewe him selfe a patrone in defending this lewde lieng Apologie of the whiche iff I haue made any lye it is because I called it but a fardle of lyes whereas I should haue called it as M. Nowell hath sence taught me a whole lighter You blame me not you saye for alleaging anie thinge out Nowell b. â—6 of the olde TestameÌ„t but for my guilefull and vntrue application of places of the olde Testament and of the doctours to suche purposes as they apperteine nothing vnto at all nay are most contrarie to the same You refuse not scripture but the wroÌ„g applicatioÌ„ So wil Dorman anie heretike saye to yow except the Swenckfeldian with whome you shall haue to doe I applie this scripture as the catholike consent of all the worlde dothe applye it whome folowe you in refusing it That there hathe ben nothing proued by me neither fo 65. a. 3. by reason nor by examples of common wealthes it is an impudent lye of youres M. Nowell I haue proued by bothe A lye 52. that as euerie kingdome and countrie hathe his temporall head to gouerne the same by like statutes lawes and customes so the church which is but one muste haue one head to directe it in one faith and religion No reason no examples be againste me for no reason admitteth no example teacheth that one bodie shoulde be better gouerned by manie heades then by one And therfore that is an other Lye 53. lye S. Cyprian and S. Hierome thoughe they speake but of Byshoppes in theire owne diocesse Yeat by greater reason their wordes take place in the whole church as before hathe bene declared That euerie diocesse haue a peculier bishop it is not contrary to the Popes supremacy as you vntruly say And if it should be coÌ„trarie how would you then auoyde his reason that woulde inferre here vpon that the hauing then of seuerall gouernours of euerie shyre in a realme shoulde be contrarie to the gouernement of one supreme gouernour the kinge or the Quene Wel then seinge it is not cleane contrarie to the hauinge of one general heade to haue manie inferiour heades S. Cyprian and S. Hierome be not cleane contrarie to me nor contrarie neither This is therfore allso a lye I gaue to Leo such an epitheton Lye 54. as the whole councell of Calcedon gaue to him before Yf you be angrie there at wreke your selfe vpoÌ„ them Leo maketh for vs directlie all were it trewe that you cauill of Zozimus But as the reader vnderstandeth by this time I dowte not both Zozimus is proued innocente and you a false slaunderer a 18. Neither the lawe neither S. Cyprian vpon the lawe speaketh against one head bishop That is an other flat lye M. Nowell For to testifie one sense of scripture whiche Lye 55. Sainte Cyprian doth is not to condemne an other My collection from the one head bishop of the Synagog hath ben proued to be good and laufully deduced I neade not here to repeate it againe You wishe that I and all other aduersaries of the truth so it Nowell a. 17. pleaseth you to call vs woulde reason from the shadowes off the olde lawe as did S. Paule but you saye we doe not You proue youre sayeng by a bare deniall And then Dorman yowe passe to an other cleane wyde from the purpose But suche is youre rhetorike moste worthye to be noted Well let vs examine youre wanderinge extrauagant note VVe haue made yow yow saye off Christians Iues and Nowell fol. b. 14. oure selues off ministers off the Ghospell Aaronicall Leuites cet Not we M. Nowell but the primitiue churche as youre Dorman selfe confesse in this place in saynge that these thinges beganne in Saint Hieromes tyme. Yow do well to folowe so Lib. 4. cap. 18. neare the steppes of youre Maister Caluin who chargethe in his institutions the fathers of the primitiue churche for counterfeiting the Iuish maner of sacrificing more nearly theÌ„ The fathers off the primitiue churche sclaundered by Caluin other Christ had ordeined or the nature of the gospell did beare But if these thinges were in the primitiue churche then beare the people no more I praye you in hande that you resemble the primitiue church Iff S. Hierome complained of suche thinges in his time then appeale no more to the first six hundrethe yeares if you be wise Then terme not churche ornamentes late superstitions But if S. Hierome complained not at all of suche ornamentes of the church but in the Epistle ad Nepotianum lamented only that weightier matters as the true decking of Christes churche with good ministers were neglected If in the epistle ad Demetriadem he plainelye saieth Non reprehendo non abnuo I reproue it not I dissent not then haue you abused the reader with S. Hieromes name and belied him once agayne
present when he saide Qui minor est Lucae 9. inter vos omnes hic maior est He that is the leaste emongeste you all is the greatest Belike you woulde haue asked hym how one could be the greater and the lesse But do you not youre selfe confesse that euerye bishop is the heade of hys diocesse And howe then M. Nowell doth that agree I vse youre owne wordes with the humble ecclesiastical ministery Is your heade the bishop a headye seruant and a seruile heade Kinges and Princes are they not the heades of the people whome they gouerne and yeat in that verie respecte that they be heades ministres notwithstanding as S. Paule witnesseth Rom. 13. and seruantes M. Dorman harpeth to muche vpon one string oute of tune Nowell b. 16. for his purpose I meane the example off the Iuish high prieste cet Who twangeth moste vppon one string that let the learned Dorman reader iudge Once this is suer that the string that you shoulde strike here you touche not so muche as once For I bringe not in this example of the high prieste off the Iues at this tyme as because I once did you dreame that I doe still to proue that there ought to be one onelye heade in Christes churche as there was emongest the Iues but to detecte the vanitie of this reason of youres Christe is heade of the churche and able to rule the same him selfe alone ergo there nedeth no other To this answered I so was M. Nowell dissembleth my reasō and twāgeth vpō a false string he being God heade of the Iuish Synagoge also and as wel hable to rule the same without anye helpe or meanes as he is nowe to rule his churche Yeat was his pleasure to appointe a highe prieste c. And therefore that ought to be no reason to persuade vs that he dothe not or maye not do the lyke nowe To this because yow were not hable to replye you dissembled my meaning as a little before in this verye place you doe when you saye that my examples make rather against me then with me The whiche practise you vse also hereafter as in place shal be declared For this matter I haue no more to saye but to aduise you that you take youre harpe into youre hande and twang once vpon the right string In prosecuting the confutation of that naughtie argument fol. 80. a. 24. 1. Reg. 15. of youre Apologie I vse the examples of Saule called in the scripture the heade ouer the tribues of Israel of the husbande called by Paule the heade of his wife off the 1. Cor. 11. Archebishoppe heade ouer the other bishoppes of his prouince and conclude thereupon that as it is no good reason to saye God was heade of the tribues of Israel therefore Saule was not Christe is heade of vs all men and wemen therefore the husbande is not heade of the wife The Arche bishoppe is heade of the other bishoppes of his prouince Therefore the bishoppes be not hedes euen so that the argument of youre Apologie Christe is heade of his churche therfore there is no other head is a faulty argument because if it were good it shoulde exclude also whiche it dothe not the other heades that I named confessed to be true heades in earthe For quae ratio partis ad partem eadem totius ad totum the same proportion that is of the parte to the parte the same is the proportion of the whole to the whole that is if their maie be a heade of one diocesse in earthe which is parte of the whole notwithstanding that God is heade of the whole there is no let by this argument but there maie be an other heade also vnder him ouer the whole And so I proue the reason of the Apologie naught in the whole quia non valet in partibus because it is not good in the partes To this reason of mine you neuer make answere but dissembling it as you did the other before you saie that I bring these examples to proue that there be diuerse seuerall b. 13. heades in earthe vnder Christe So I did in dede But why woulde I proue that To proue that there ought to be one heade ouer the whole Why saye you so for shame M. Nowell Why dissemble you that whiche anye man that hathe his common sense can not but see to be otherwise I bringe it to shewe howe absurde it is for you to graunte that ouer the tribues off Israel there maye be a heade ouer seuerall churches there maye be heades withoute derogation to Christes honour who is the chiefe and yeat you will not graunte so muche to the whole churche for the impediment of that pretended reason because Christe is the heade which letteth not in particuler churches And therfore neither Hosius nor I care whether Saul were head of the tribue of Leui or no this example prouing how euer it were sufficiently our intent whiche is to disproue your folishe reason that because Christ is heade of his church there nedeth no other When Hosius or I alleage this place to gather thereby that there ought to be one head in earth vnder Christ ouer all churches then we will folowe your minde in cōcluding In the meane season we take youre argument that because Christe is the onelie heade ouer the vniuersall churche therefore there nedeth no other generall heade vnder him to be by this example sufficiently confuted as before I shewed Yeat because your desire is that it maie be considered whether when the scripture saieth that Saul was made heade of the tribues of Israēl he were appointed heade ouer the tribue of Leui also that is ouer the cleargie considre it I praie yow and spare not and when yow haue all considered and done yow shall perceiue howe muche this exemption of the cleargie from the auctoritie of king Saul maketh against yow and youre companions that will make kinges to rule the cleargie in causes ecclesiasticall I doubte not but some of youre side that haue more staied heades then yowe and that are lesse passionat will saie that yowe might haue kepte this consideration to youre selfe still And where yow mingle kinges and bishoppes together whose Nowell b. 30. fo 81. a. 1. offices are distinct and vse the examples of the Archebishop off Cauntorbury and the bishop of London what titles so euer your bishoppes when they were in those roumes vsed or abused I am suer they who be nowe in place take it for their chiefe honour to be and to be called also gods ministers in his churche What a worlde is this when protestantes complaine of Dorman mingling kinges and bishoppes together As though the worlde knewe not who confoundeth and iumbleth together these two offices they or we But the faulte is founde with me for reasoning from their offices whiche be distincte Why yow knowe M. Nowell if you haue not forgotten youre logicke that it
is not necessarie that thinges compared should be one in all pointes They agree in this that kinges and bishoppes are bothe heades and gouernours the pointe where in the comparison was made Nowe whereas to this that I saie that the B. of Cauntorbury is heade off the bishoprike and diocesse of London as he is of all the bishoprikes within his prouince and that yeat a man can not infer vpon this that therefore the bishopp of London is not heade of that his diocesse as yow doe in saing that because Christe is heade of the whole churche therfore there is no other vnder him whereas I saie to this yow answere that youre bishoppes take it for theire chiefe honour to be and to be called gods ministres in his churche so doe oure bishoppes to M. Nowell and vsed no other titles then those whiche your false bishoppes hauing falsely vsurped vse and abuse at this daie but what is that to the matter that we entreate of Well be bolde man and blushe not coffe owt that tuffe fleaume that lieth in youre throte and saie that the archebishop is of no more power then the bishop If yow had saide thus then had yow answered yeat some thing whereas nowe yowe haue answered nothinge Except this maie stande for youre answere when yow proue it that neither Archebishop nor bishop maie be called heades of the churches fo 81. a. 6. that they gouerne but rather kinges and princes Whiche opinion because yowe see that it is contrarie to all M. Nowell laboureth to helpe his owne contradiction by a folishe shift that yow saied before touching the places of S. Cyprian and S. Hierome where yowe confessed so often that euerie bishop was heade of his owne diocesse to salue that sore yow saie Yeat I denie not but that bishoppes maie be and haue bene Nowell a. 17. though improprely named heades euen by good writers as the scholemaister of a prince in that the prince is his scholer is his heade c. Surely bishoppes are muche beholden vnto yowe that Dorman yow graunte them so muche auctoritie ouer their flocke as yow had ouer your scholers when yow were scholemaister of Westminstre But I praie you M. Nowell cal to your remēbraunce that S. Ciprian saieth of the bishop that he is in the diocesse where he ruleth the iudge in Christes stede that S. Hierom calleth him the high prieste that he must he saieth haue pearelesse auctoritie aboue all other that schismes rise by not obeing him and iudge with your selfe what a handsome comparison you haue made But admitting euen youre owne similitude you shall see how muche you haue saide for the auctoritie of bishoppes against that vnlaufull othe which you exact of all men Euē as the scholemaistre is in his schole the heade of his scholers allthough they be princes so be bishoppes the heades of suche as be in their seuerall bishoprikes all though they be princes but the scholemaister in his schoole is the supreme gouernour in all thinges and causes belonging to the schole his scholers allthough princes hauing in those thinges no power to commaunde Ergo the bishoppes are euery one in his churche the supreme gouernours in all thinges ecclesiasticall and princes haue no auctoritie to entremedle therein The which conclusion deduced M. nowell from your comparison as youre selfe with honestie can not mislike so I trust it shall displease no prince considering that as S. Ambrose saieth there can be nothing more honorable for Epist 32. ad Valent. the Emperour then to be called the sonne of the churche For a good Emperour saieth he is within the churche not aboue the churche But because this sentence is become nowe in Englande by the meanes of certeine clawbackes to be odioufe I will in defence of M. Nowell if anie perhappes woulde quarell with him for giuing to bishoppes so greate auctoritie adde out of Chrisostome of hūdreds of places that might be brought to that effect only one which is this Quanquā nobis admirandus videtur thronus regius ob gēmas affixas Homil. 5. de Esaiae verbis vidi Dominū The power of the prince and of the priest aurū quo obcinctus est tamen rerum terrenarū administrationē sortitus est nec vltra potestatem hanc preterea quicquā habet auctoritatis verum sacerdoti thronus in coelis collocatus est de coelestibus negotijs pronunciandi habet auctoritatem That is to saye Allthough the kinges throne seme to vs merueilouse for the pretiouse stones and golde wherewith it is garnished yeat hath he only the administration of earthly thinges and aboue this power he hathe no auctoritie but the priest hathe his throne in heauen and auctoritie to pronounce of heauenly affaires And thus muche by occasion of the auctoritie that you giue to bishoppes as greate ouer their diocesse as schoolemaisters haue ouer their schooles I woulde furder if it were not for troubling you haue desired you to haue named some good auctor to iustifie this saing of youres that bishoppes when they be called heades are so called improperly But I refer that to youre good discretion and to your better laisour Whether Christe nede to haue one to gouerne his churche vnder him and howe The 23. Chapitre IT IS true the Apologie and we all likewise saye that neither Nowell a. 30. b. 1. hathe Christe nede of anie suche one only heade vicair ouer all his churche which M. Dorman a little before dothe confesse him selfe neither is it Christes will to haue any suche heade vicair For though M. Dorman affirme that he so woulde yeat shall he neuer by the holie scripture wherein Christes will is declared be able to prome it Thirdly it is impossible for anie earthely man to haue and to execute anie suche office c. For the proufe of the first of these thre pointes yow Dorman bring my selfe for a witnes in my boke fo 9. b. Where I haue no such thing but onelie this that Christe had as little nede to gouerne his churche in the olde lawe by the helpe of one heade as he hath nowe I denied not then but he had nede nowe Therefore you continue youre accustomed wont of beelieng me If you aske me how he hath nede A lye 69. which is God I answere that as he neded the witnesse of men as appeareth by this There was a man sent from God Ioan. 1. whose name was Iohn to beare witnes of the light And againe Ioan. 15. Yow shall beare witnes of me because yow haue ben withe me from the beginning for the infirmities sake of men not for him selfe so for vs which can not commodiously be gouerned Howe God nedeth a heade to gouerne his churche nor well kept in orde without one heade a man as we are oureselues to whome in all controuersies we might haue recourse God hath nede of suche a heade Thus take I neede now taking it in youre
currebant ego non mittebam Nowe seing the canon lawe helpeth Hier. cap. 23. you not yea seing it maketh directly against you as the whiche accounteth them headlesse that appointe heades to them selfe without the popes approbation seing at the lawes of the realme you finde as I heare saie as little grace seing that by the scriptures you are condemned for running not being sent what remaineth but to saye that the obeing of your Idoll bishoppes can not excuse you from being headlesse All this a doe hathe M. Dorman made nowe by the space of more Nowell fol. 114. a. 1. Clem. li. 3. Tit. 13. de censib exact cap. cum sit lib. 5. de verb. sig Tit. 10. ca. 1. Ex frequentib Dorman then three leaues to deface scripture as no fitte iudge in controuersies and to persuade vs that the pope like an other Pithagoras by his only bare worde maie and ought to satisfie all men heretikes and others and that it shal be sufficient for him only to saye without reason of scripture why he so saieth sauing this reason only papae est pro ratione voluntas with the pope will standeth for reason as is mentioned in the boke of his owne canon lawe c. Not to deface the scripture M. Nowel haue I made al this a doe there you belye me but to deface heretikes while by this meanes it shall not be laufull for thē to peruert and corrupte it with their false and vntrue expositions The places that you bring out of the canon lawe to proue that it is sufficient for the pope to saye without reason of scripture why he so saieth are two but in neither of those places is that which you saye The first place speaketh of certeine priuileges which the pope for causes and considerations will not haue extendid to monasteries and churches after a certeine time Here saieth the glose vpon this place that the popes will in this case standeth for reason Againe in the seconde place which is not there where you falsely note it here in the margent to be but in the title de sententia excommunicat cap. si summus pontifex of the pope absoluing one excommunicate it saieth as muche but no where in the popes lawe is this odiouse saing of youres founde Loke therfore better bothe vpon the texte and the glose and learne to vnderstande them before you bring them nexte An answere to 8. demaundes made by M. Nowell touching the pope The 30. Chapitre THE FIRST what if there be two or three popes at once Is it not to be doubted which of them shall be this certeine iudge in cōtrouersies Nowell And is not the popish churche in this case in daunger to be a liue monstre as hauing manie heades If there shoulde be so manie popes at once as truly popes Dorman as you professe to haue of your church manie heades at once then should the church be not only in daunger but in deede a liue monstre as youre schismaticall churche is But whereas in truthe there is but one laufull pope it is in no suche daunger as yow fantasy not if there were ten that pretended euery of them right to the papacy If any suche chaunce happen we knowe it chaunceth by Goddes permission who as he hath hetherto so guided his churche that when the like hathe happened it neuer susteined thereby anie detriment in faithe so are we by his promise assured who promised neuer to forsake his churche that he will in no wise permitte in this doubtefull time anye such cōtrouersie to be moued as that maye not withoute the detriment of his church remaine in suspense vntil suche time as God haue reuealed the right iudge and true pope What if there be neuer a pope at all Shall all oure doubtes lye Nowell b. 25. therewhile vndiscussed for lacke of a iudge and youre popishe church so longe two or three yeares together lye as a dead troncke for lacke of an heade If your doubtes be suche as the vsage of the churche the Dorman consent of all nations be not able to explicate then is there no other remedie but by praier to desire allmightye God to kepe from vs no longre this necessarie meane appointed by him in earthe to signifie to vs his holye will and pleasure The churche is not in the meane season a deade troncke no more then one of youre particuler churches is when the bishop dieth For euen as there although not in all thinges the Chapitre supplieth the lacke of the bishop in many so the See of Rome being voide by deathe hathe a graue Senate that supplieth althoughe not in defining of controuersies yeat in manie thinges that want of the heade I trust when the generall heade of the church of England in earthe dieth you will not call your church a deade troncke VVhat if the pope sitte not at Rome in Italie May we not doubt Nowell of the certeintie of the iudge not sitting in the chaire whereof he hath all his certeintie The pope hathe not his certeintie of Peters materiall Dorman chaire but of the auctoritie and power giuen to Petre the signe whereof the chaire is And therefore you nede not to trouble youre selfe with that care whether he sitte in the verye same chaire that Petre did or in some other whether he sit at Auinion in Fraunce or Toletum in Spaine he is allwaies bishoppe of Rome and successour to Petre. And as we saie where the kinge is there is the courte so where the pope sitteth there is Peters chaire to saye Petres auctoritye VVhat if he doe erre VVhat if he be an heretike Nowell The pope maye haue his priuate and personall errours Dorman it can not be denied God onely and not man is priuileaged that he can not so erre But in determining any matter of faithe or deliuering any doctrine to the whole churche he that is the chiefe heade of his churche will neuer suffer him so to erre And therefore I saye with S. Augustine that August epist 165. his misdoinges doe not preiudice the churche If it woulde please you M. Nowell to become scholer to those that you call my maisters as for anie greate learning that you haue showen in this Reproufe of youres it might beseeme you well enough Pighius and Hosius in them shoulde you learne Lib. 4. eccles hierarch cap. 8. Lib. 2. contra Brent folio 83. sequent that all youre companions be not hable to conuince so muche as one pope emongest so manie as haue bene to be an heretike But let that be as doubtefull as this is moste certeine that there was neuer yeat anye pope that gaue in any matter of faithe an hereticall sentence And therfore you are much to blame to conceiue of Goddes prouidence for his churche any such dispaire not being hable for all the time past to shewe so muche as one example of that whiche you captiously demaunde VVhat if
did to those that obiected to Lib. 5. ep 32. him the Emperours auctoritie in matters of religion Soluimus quae sunt Caesaris Caesari quae sunt dei deo Tributuâ— Caesaris est non negatur Ecclesia dei est Caesari vtique non debet addici quia ius Caesaris esse non potest templum dei Quod cum honorificentiâ— Imperatoris nemo dictum potest negare Quid enim honorificeÌ„tius quaÌ„ vt imperator ecclesiae filius esse dicatur Quod sine peccato dicitur cum gratia dicitur Imperator enim bonus inâ—ra ecclesiam non supra ecclâ—siam est We paye to Cesar that which is his and to God that whiche belongeth to God Tribute is due to Cesar it is not denied him The churche is goddes it maye not apperteine to Cesar because the temple of God can not be Caesars right The whiche no man can denie to be saied but with the Emperours honour For what is more honorable then for the Emperour to be called the sonne of the churche The whiche when it is said it is spoken with fauour without offence For a good Emperour is within the church not aboue the churche Thus muche S. Ambrose a prowde prieste by youre iudgement because he acknowledged not the Emperour to be his supreme gouernour in causes ecclesiasticall But because you thinke M. Nowell and saye also that I haue lewdely abused my selfe in confuting that whiche no man holdeth I will make it appeare that you haue lewdely done in so saing and that I went not about to proue that the heade is not the heade because it can not or list not doe all offices of all the principall meÌ„bres of the bodie which you saie vntruly is the effecte of all my seconde long treaty but that temporall princes can not be the heades because they can not doe the office of the heade The whiche to proue I will alleage youre owne wordes wherein the parte of a heade you saye consisteth They are these To commaunde thinges aswell ecclesiasticall as ciuile to be done Nowell to see them done to commende and rewarde all well doers of them to correct and punishe all euill doers of them or negligent in their office is the parte of a heade or supreame gouernour to doe thinges commaunded is the office of inferiour membres and obedient subiectes We haue now good Reader M. Nowels owne limitatioÌ„ Dorman wherein the office of the heade of the church consisteth I praie the coÌ„sidre when I alleaged scripture that the gouernemeÌ„t Act. 20. of the church was coÌ„mitted to bishoppes and priestes that they must be obeied which watche for oure soules spoken also of priestes Hebr. 13. when I alleaged the blessed martyr Ignatus bidding vs Epist. ad SmirneÌ„â—es first to honour God nexte the bishop as bearing his image and then after that the king willing all the people to obeye Epist ad Piladelphenses Lib. 10. cap. 2 eccl histor Ambros lib. 5. epi. 32. the Emperour the Emperour to obey the bisshop the bisshop Christe c. wheÌ„ I alleaged the exaÌ„ple of ConstaÌ„tine the first Christian Emperour refusing to iudge ouer bisshoppes because God had giuen them power to iudge him when I alleaged these wordes of S. Ambrose to the Emperour Quando audisti clementissime imperator in causa fidei laicos de episcopo iudicasse Ita ergo quadaÌ„ adulatione curuamur vt sacerdotalis iuris simus immemores quod deus donauit mihi hoc ipse putem alijs esse credendum Si docendus est episcopus a laico quid sequitur Laicus ergo disputet episcopus audiat episcopus discat a laico At certe si velscripturaruÌ„ seriem diuinaruÌ„ vel vetera tempora retractemus quis est qui abnuat in causa fidei in causa inquam fidei episcopos solerede imperatoribus non imperatores de episcopis iudicare Eris deo fauente etiam senectutis maturitate prouectior tunc de hoc censebis qualis ille episcopus sit qui laicis ius sacerdotale substernit That is to saye when haue you hearde moste gentle Emperour that laye men haue iudged of the bishop Be we therefore so crookened withe flattrye that we shoulde forget the priestly right and that whiche God gaue to me I shoulde thinke to be to be commited to other If the bishop be to be taught of the Laye man what will folowe Let the laye man then dispute and the bishoppe be a hearer let the bishoppe learne off the laye man But truly if we will loke to the course of the Note holy scripture or call to memorye the times past who can denye that in a cause of faithe a matter I saie of faithe the bishoppes were wont to iudge of Christian Emperours not Emperours of bishoppes Yow shall be God willing youre selfe one daye of more ripe age and then you shall iudge what maner of bishoppe he is whiche bringeth the right of priesthode in subiection to lay men Thus farre the wordes of Sainte Ambrose to Valentinian the Emperoure taking vpon him by euell councell to entremedle in ecclesiasticall iurisdiction When to these places I added the notable testimonies out of Athanasius where the Emperour In epist ad Solitar vitam agent is bidden not to entremedle nor commaunde in ecclesiasticall matters He is called Antichriste for making him selfe chiefe of the bishoppes for ruling in ecclesiasticall iudgementes for making his palace the consistory of ecclesiasticall matters Finally when I brought Caluin him selfe against this opinion of making temporall princes the heades in ecclesiasticall matters did I fight with mine owne shadowe Did I laboure in confuting that whiche no man holdeth Are not these auctorities directly against the commaunding of princes in ecclesiasticall thinges against the taking vpon them to correcte or iudge bishoppes in matters of faithe wherein the office M. Nowell saieth of the heade dothe consiste You maye therefore nowe perceiue good Readers that it was but a pretended cause of M. Nowelles parte that he here alleageth to shift of that to M. Iuell at the least from him selfe whiche he was suer he shoulde neuer be able to answere Wherefore nowe to conclude with you M. Nowell I will giue you this frendely councell for a farewell to striue no longre against priestes lest it happen to you that the blessed Martyr S. Cyprian saieth was reuealed to him Qui Lib. 4. epist 9. Christo non credit sacerdotem facienti postea credere in ipiet sacerdotem vindicaÌ„ti He that beleueth not Christ appointing the prieste shall after begin to beleue him reueâ—ging the prieste Struggle no longer against the See of Rome of the A singulier testimonie â—or the churche of Rome It maye be added be fore fol. 192. b. Psal contra paâ—em Donati which S. Augustine saieth Ipsa est sedes Petri quam non vincunt superbae inferorum portae That See is the rocke whiche the proude gates of hell shall not ouercome For iff you doe you are like to leese youre labour as you see except a lymme you thinke be able to doe more then the wide gates off the diuells palace ¿ Deo Gratias Quandoquidem Liber iste perlectus approbatus est a viris Sacrae Theologiae linguae Anglicanae peritissimis iudico eum suto posse imprimi euulgari Ita testor iudico Cunerus Petri pastor Sancti Petri Louaniensis 16. Octobris Anno. 1561.