Bishop Fyshar Sir Thomas Moore the Monkes of the charter house with all the rest of the Popes friends that suffered in the daies of King Henry the eight and Edmond Campion with his companie and the rest that haue bene executed in the time of the raigne of our Soueraigne that now is for what cause haue they suffered was it not for that they affirmed that the Popes holines hath the supreme power in this realme that princes haue not the highest power vpon earth ouer such as be their subiectes This cause can not bee Christs cause for Christ did in his humaine nature submit him selfe to the Emperor in that hee him selfe did pay tribute to the Emperor in token of subiection Mat. 17. Mat 17. S. Peter willeth all christians to submit them selues to all estates of men euen for the Lords sake whether it be to the king as to him that hath the preheminence or to the Dukes or captaines as to men whom the Lord hath sent for the punishment of euill dooers but for the praise of such as bée good for so is the will of God that Christians should by well dooing stop the ignoraunce of foolish men c. 1. Pet. 2. 1 Peter 2. S. Paule also wrote thus to the Romaines Omnis anima potestatibus sublimioribus subdita sit c. Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers c. Rom. 13. Rom. 13. Chrysostome expounding these woords of S. Paule saith thus Etiam si Apostolus sis si Euangelista si Propheta siue quisquis tandem fueris c. Although thou be an Apostle if thou bée an Euangelist if thou be a Prophet and to conclude who or what so euer thou béest For saith Chrysostome this subiection dooth not subuert godlinesse And hée saith not simply hée must obay but hée saith Chrysost in Rom. 13. subdita sit It must bée in subiection By these woords of Chrysostome it appeereth what maner of Martyrs they are that haue died for the mainetenaunce of your Popes supreme powre ouer all Christians vpon earth If Chrysostome were now liuing and would maintaine this that hee hath written your Pope would make him a Martyr in déed if hée might catch him as hee hath and still dooth make Martyrs of all such as hée hath and can catch that bee of one minde with Chrysostome Your Confessors are euen such as your Martyrs and so are your Virgins with the rest that you meane of when you say and such other Now let the Protestant prooue say you that this is not the true Church that we are not bound to obay and belieue this Church and none other in all controuersies and doubts c. The Protestant hath already prooued that the church that you meane of which is the Romaine Antichristian church is not the true Church of Christ and that it hath not in it those things that you doo so much brag of It hath not continuance as yet for the space of 1000. yéeres It hath not neither dooth it exercise preaching to the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the gospell but to the obedience of Antichristian doctrine It hath not had neither hath it the right administration of the sacraments but with such mixture of humaine diuises as is vnséemely in the Church of Christ It hath not had neither hath it any such orderly succession of bishops as you brag of neither any such vniformitie of solemne Ceremonies It hath not had at any time neither hath it now such vnitie of faith as you speake of nor the holy functions of the spirite as working of Miracles remission of sinnes nor the true sense and interpretation of the woord of God Neither is it beautified with that diuersitie of states that you speake of as Martyrs Confessors and Virgins such other wherefore the Protestant concludeth that there is no cause why he should obay and belieue that church of yours no more is there that you should not yeelde and recant The Twentith offer Offerer Twentith Moreouer let the learned Protestant proue that the true and Catholike church of Christ may at any time bee voide of Gods spirit which he hath promised to be with his Church for euer saying Et ego rogabo patrem et alium paracletum dabit vobis Iohn 14. vt maneat vobiscum in aeternū or falsly to interpret any sentence of holy scripture or to induce any erroure among the people or approoue vnprofitable and hurtfull vsages amonge the Christians or that shee suffereth any damnable abuse in her religion without open repredhension thereof Let the learned Protestant prooue any of these points and I will then yeelde and recant and not before Crowley The true Catholique church of Christ in déed is neuer voyde of Gods spirite Yea there is not one member of that church which hath not that spirite dwelling in it in some measure For thus the Apostle Paule hath written to the Romaines Si quis autem spiritum Christi non habet hie non est eius If there be any that hath not the spirite of Christ the same belongeth not to him Rom. 8. Rom. 8 I doo confesse therefore that the true Catholique church of Christ is neuer voide of Gods spirit But according to the words that this Offerer hath cited out of the 14. cha of Iohn Iohn 14 our sauiour Christ hath sent another comforter which is the holy spirit of God to be with his Church for euer But what maketh this for M. Offerers purpose Hee must prooue that the church of Rome being such as now it is hath bin for the space of a thousand yéeres almost is that true Catholique church of Christ and then these pointes will serue him to some purpose otherwise they doo make flatly against him Taking your church to bee the true Catholike church of Christ you offer to yéelde and recant if the Protestant can prooue that your church hath fasly interpreted any one sentence of the holy scripture The Protestant hath alreain his answere to your 19. offer sufficiently prooued that your whole church hath in the 25. session of your Tridentine counsell falsly interpreted or rather flatly denied mo then one two or thrée sentences of the holy scriptures as to the indifferent Reader it may there most euidently apeere wherefore wée doo looke for the performance of your promise in yéelding and recanting That your church hath induced doth still induce errors amongst the people hath approued and doth still approoue vnprofitable and hurtfull vsages amongst Christians hath suffered and dooth still suffer damnable abuses in religion without open reprehention is more manifest then that which lyeth open in the cleare sunne light Wherefore the Protestant néedeth not to spend any time in the proofe therof It may suffice to put the reader in minde of those shamelesse errors that your church hath taught dooth still teach and maintaine concerning the inuocation of Angelles and Saints the praying for the deade
gospell and haue imbraced and professed and doo still professe most vnpure Popish religion The booke was first written by the aboue named Iohn de Albine as it may be thought either in the Latine or in the French tonge Wherefore I meane not to bestow any time in the answering of it supposing that either Beza or some other French Protestant hath already dealt therein sufficiently But because the offers séeme to be made by some English man and haue not as I thinke béene aunswered by any man I haue thought good to supply the place of that learned Protestant that the Popish Catholique ment to make the offers vnto And that the Offerer if hee be yet liuing or any fréende of his if he be departed this lyfe may not haue any cause to mislike with my dealing herein I minde to setfoorth to the view of the Reader all the words of the Offerer euen as I finde them and as I haue them to shew in his printed Coppie which I haue and doo mind to kéepe in a readinesse to shewe not abiding or dimnishing altering or changing one sentence worde sillable letter or title The Offerer beginneth thus The Offerer First seeing it cannot bee denied that our sauiour Christ before his departure and ascension did commit the charge and gouernment of his Church the testimony of his worde the truth of his gospell the ministration of his Sacraments to his Apostles and Disciples and that not only for them selues but to their successors Bishops and Priests and to none other saying only to them Euntes docete omnes gentes Math. 28. Marc. 16. Goe yee and teach all people and nations of the world baptizing them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghoste teaching them to obserue and keepe all things which I haue commaunded you Further the Apostle Saint Paule being at Miletum in executing of his charge gouernment gaue this admonition to the Bishops and Priestes there assembled before him saying Attēdite vobis et vniuer so gregi Act. 20. Take heed vnto your selues and vnto the whole flocke of Christ in the which the holy ghost hath ordayned you Bishops Regere ecclesiam Dei To gouerne the Church of God And in the thirteenth Chapter of his Epistle to the Hebrews hee dooth commaunded all other sortes of men without exception of Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to obay their Bishops and priestes saying Heb. 13. Obedite praepositis vestris subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilant quasi rationem pro animabus vestris reddituri Obey your Prelates and doo what they appoint you for they doo watch as men that shall render accomptes for your soules Seeing that by the testimonies before alleadged it can not bee denyed but that the charge and gouernment of Chryst his Church the preaching of his doctrine the admninistration of his Sacramentes was by him committed to his Apostles and Dysciples and to all Byshoppes and Priestes as Successours of them to plante Chrystian fayth and Religion in his Catholique Church vniuersally throughout all Nations Coastes and Quarters of the world Seeing this is by the playnnesse of the sayd testimonies of such an vndoubted truth that it cannot bee denyed now let the learned protestant affirming princes to bee the supreme heades of the Church eyther shew by some such other like playne testymonies of the Scriptures that our Sauiour Chryst did commit the chyefe charge and supreme gouernement of his Church to Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to plant Christian fayth and Religion in the same or that any one of Chryst his Apostles or Disciples did conuert any people Lande or Countrey from their Idolatrie and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion by preaching the doctrine of the Protestants as of onely faith to iustifie the contempt of good workes and that they be all vncleane in sight of GOD the deniall of free will of the real presence of Christes body in the holy Eucharist of the Sacrifice of the most blessed Masse the abolishing Christ his Sacramentes and of all grace and goodnesse by them conferred vnto vs then I shall yeelde and recant and not before Thus farre the first part of the Offer Crowley This Offerer hath deuided this offer of his into 22. parts adding to the last part six certaine and assured signes and tokens of false Prophets Heretickes Schismatickes This diuision I meane to follow in mine answer To this first part therfore I say thus maister Offerer I cōfesse that our Sauiour Christ dyd as you haue sayd committe the charge and gouernement of his Church the testimonye of his worde the trueth of his Gospell and the ministration of his Sacramentes to his Apostles and Scholers and to theyr successors But not to such successours onely as you do name that is to Bishops and Préestes onely and to none other For S. Paule in the 12. Chapter of his first Epistle to the Corinthians and in the 4. to the Ephesians writing of the same matter sayth thus Et ipse dedit quosdam quidem Apostolos Eph 4. quosdam autem Prophetas alios vero Euangelistas alios autem Pastores Doctores And he hath giuen some Apostles or Messengers and some Prophettes and other some Euangelistes and some others Pastors and teachers And againe in the 12. of the first to the Corinthians hee writeth thus 1 Cor 12. Et quosdam posuit Deus in Ecclesia primum Apostolos secundo Prophetas tertio Doctores deinde virtutes exinde gratias curationum opitulationes gubernationes genera linguarum God hath place in his Church certaine degrees of men first Apostles secondly Prophets thirdly teachers then powers after that giftes of healings helpes gouernements kindes of tongues Least you should quarell about the translating of S. Paules wordes out of the Gréeke I haue set them downe as I finde them in that translation that your Tridentine councell hath allowed of But I pray you good M. Offerer what meant S. Paule that in the rehearsall of those sundry degrées of men that God hath placed in his Church he would make no mentiion at al of your Bishops and Préestes to whom onely as to the onely successours of his Apostles and Disciples Christ spake if you haue written truely when he sayd thus Math. 28 Euntes docete omnes gentes Goe ye and teach all nations of the worlde c. Without all doubt S. Paule dyd know and so doo wée that God dyd neuer place in his Church or appoint to succéede his Apostles and Disciples any such Bishops and Préestes as you meane of That is Lording and loitring Bishops exercising dominion ouer the peoples that are alotted vnto them and sawsie sacrificing Préests which presume to occupie the place of Christ himselfe and to execute his office in offering sacrifice for the sinnes of the people S. Peter disaloweth the one 1. Pet. 5. and S. Paule the other Hebr. 10. Hebr 1◠1 Peter ◠Yea if our
Sauiour Christ dyd speake only to such Bishops and Préests as you doo appoint to be the successours of the Apostles and disciples of Christ when he sayd Euntes c. Goe and teach all nations of the worlde c. Howe hath that his commaundement béene or howe is it executed sith they commonly neither doo nor can teache those thinges that our Sauiour commaunded his Apostles and scholers to teach and to doo The successors of the Apostles and scholers of our Sauiour Christ to whome those wordes were at the first and be still spoken must bee such as God hath dooth and shall make méete to doo his message to men of all sortes to foreshewe vnto them by the Scriptures what hangeth ouer theyr heades if they will not regarde the message to comfort them with the assurance of the performaunce of the swéet promises which God hath made in the blood of his sonne Christ Iesus to foster féede and nourishe them with the foode of his heauenly worde and to teach and instruct them in the way of the trueth so that they may be able to discerne betwéene the broad way that leadeth to destruction and that narrowe way that leadeth to lyfe euerlasting and to continue walking in that way euen to the ende of their life in this transitorie state Thus much doo those wordes signifie which I haue cited out of the fourth Chapter of S. Paules Epistle to the Ephesians And in the wordes that I haue cited out of the 12. Chapter of the first to Corinth Saint Paule hath added that these wordes of our Sauiour Christ were spoken to them also whom God hath dooth or shall make mighty endueinge them with power from aboue making them able to stande against and to withstand yea and vanquishe the ghostly enimies that is the deuill the world and the fleshe to cure sicknesses and diseases to succour helpe and comfort the weake and féeble to gouerne the simple and to vnderstand and speake diuers languages All this may be vnderstanded in these wordes of S. Paule God hath placed in his Church certaine degrées of men first Apostles secondly prophets thirdly teachers after that powers after that giftes of healing helpings gouernementes and diuersities of tongues So that these words go and teach all nations c. Were spoken first to the Apostles and Scholers of our Sauiour Christ and then to all such their successours as God hath dooth or shall make méete any way to teach those thinges that he hath commaunded to be taught practised But now M. Offerer hath found that S. Paule being at Miletum hath admonished the Bishops Priestes that were assembled before him there saying AtteÌ„dite vobis c. Take héede to your selues and vnto the whole flocke of Christ in which the holy Ghost hath ordained you Bishops Act. 10. Regere Ecclesiam Dei. To gouerne the Church of God And againe in the 13. Chapter of his Epistle to the Hebrewes Saint Paule dooth commaund all other sortes of men without exception of Emperours Kings Quéenes and Princes to obay their Bishops and Préestes saying Obedite praepositis vostris subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilant quasi rationem pro animabus vestris reddituri Obey your Prelates and doo what they appoint you to do for they doo watch as men that shall render an account for your soules Héere is subtile Sophistrie in the stéede of probable reasoning and profound Diuinity These testimonies bée so plaine that it can not be denied but that as the charge gouernement of Christes Church c. was committed to Christs Apostles and Disciples so the same is committed to Popish Bishops and Préestes as to their successors But I pray you good M. Offerer let vs consider of these two places that you haue cited Saint Luke reporting the Actes or déedes of the Apostles sayth that Saint Paule hasting towardes Ierusalem would spend no time in Asia and therefore determining to passe by Ephesus sent messengers thether to require the Elders of the congregation to repayre vnto him being then in the Iland Milâ—tâ— which is now called Mâ—lâ—a These Elders you doo name Bishops and Préestes But the Gréeke worde that S. Luke vseth there can not by any meanes signifie eyther a Bishoppe or Préest of that sorte that you speake of For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dooth signifie one that is elder or more auncient in yéeres or more honorable then they be amongst whom he liueth And such were they that commonly were chosen in those dayes to be teachers instructours and gouernours in the congregations or Churches of Christians and therefore they were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Obseruers watchmen searchers such as had the ouersight of things committed to them But your Bishops and Préestes most bee such as the Grecians doo call by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is a Préest that offereth sacrifices But héere I will make you one offer M. Offerer which shal be thus If you can finde in any of the Bookes of the newe Testament that eyther our Sauiour Christ speaking of the ministers of the new Testament or any of the Apostles writing of the seuerall sortes of ministers that our Sauiour Christ hath ordayned to serue or minister in his Churche haue vsed eyther of these Gréeke woordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which doo signifie a sacrificing Preest then will I recante the Protestants doctrine and subscribe to your Papisticall doctrine and not before In the place that you haue cited out of the 20. Chapter of the Acts of the Apostles S. Paule calleth the ministers of Ephesus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is watch men or ouerséers appointed by the holy Ghost 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to gouerne the Church of God in such sorte as a shéepheard dooth gouerne and féede his flocke but not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to exercise lordlike authority ouer them as your meaning must néedes bée that your Bishoppes and Préestes should For you say that S. Paule dooth commaund all other sorts of men without exception c. To obay their Bishops and Préestes saying Obedite c. Obay your prelates c. And here I must néedes note your corrupt manner of handling of this place of S. Paule He himselfe dooth beséech those Hebrewes that he worte vnto to suffer or to take in good part that short exhortation that he gaue them but you say that hee commaunded them yea though they were Emperours Kings Quéenes or Princes to obaye theyr Prelates and to doo what they appoint In the Latine you cite the wordes Hebr 13. as they are in the vulgare translation allowed in the Tridentine councell Obedite c. It pleaseth you to set downe for Praepositis Prelates minding as it séemeth to make vs beléeue that such Prelates as you call Bishops and Préests must by S Paules commaundement be so obeyed of all Emperours Kings Quéenes and Princes and so by
not his sonne Ezechias And did not the same Ezechias brake the brasen Serpent 4. Reg. 18. bicause the people had burned Incense to it Yea and when the Priestes did any thing in the reformation of Religion did they it not by the appointment and at the commaundement of those good kings Dauid Salomon Ezechias and Iosias Reade the History of the kings and you shall sée And what did Christ come to take this Authority from Princes And hath hée taken it from them and giuen it to Peter and his Successors Hée him selfe hath acknowledged that authority in Princes in that hée payde Tribute to the Emperour both for him selfe and for Peter Math. 17. In the 13. Chapter to the Romaines Math 17. saint Paule declareth that the paying of Tribute is an acknowledging of the highest authority in Princes Chrysostome Chrysost in Rom. 13. expounding that place of Saint Paules Epistle writeth thus Cur enim inquit vectigalia Regi damus Nunquid tanquam prospicienti Nunquid tanquam praesidenti curae tuitionisque mercedem soluentes For why saith hée doo wée giue Tribute to the king Doo wée not giue it as vnto him that hath a prouident care for vs Doo wée it not as men that pay vnto him that hath the rule of vs the wages or hyer that is due to him for the care that hée hath to defend vs 1 Peter 2 And dooth not Saint Peter from whom your Bishops and Priests doo claime their high authority write thus in the second Chapter of his first Epistle Subdite igitur estote c. Bée yée subiect therefore to euery humaine creature euen for the Lords cause whether it be to the king as to him that excelleth either to Dukes as to them that are sent of him for the punishment of euill dooers but for â—he praise of them that bée good For so is the will of God that behauing your selues well you may stop the mouthes of foolish and Ignoraunt men as being free and not hauing the liberty for a cloke of maliciousnes but as the seruants of God Thus if you haue eyes to sée you may sée that the very testimonies that you haue alleaged being taken in their right sence doo prooue sufficiently that though no learned Protestant can prooue or dooth or hath affirmed that our Sauiour Christ did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernmeÌ„t of his Chruch to Emperors kings c. Yet the chiefe charge sepreme gouernment of men of all sorts hath bin alwaies is still and euer shal be in such Potentats euen by the ordinance of God him selfe as by the other testimonies that I haue alleaged dooth most manifestly appeare And where as you require the learned Protestant to prooue that any one of Christes Apostles or Disciples did by preaching the Protestants doctrine conuert any people lande or countrey from their Idolatry and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion as of onely faith to iustifie c. I say that neuer any one of the Apostles or Disciples of Christ were the meanes that God vsed in the conuerting of any one lande people or countrey by the preaching of any other doctrine then that which you call the Protestants doctrine You note sixe points of doctrine preached by the Protestants which as you say neither the Apostles nor any Disciple of Christ preached First that faith onely iustifieth Secondly that all good works are vncleane in the sight of God Thirdly that there is no frée will Fourthly that the body of Christ is not really present in the Eucharist Fiftly that the blessed Masse is not a Sacrifice And sixtly the abolishing of Christes Sacraments and all the graces and goodnes that is conferred to vs by them For the first I say that Christ him selfe hath taught it in that hée hath sayd thus Mar. 16. Qui crediderit baptizatus fuerit saluus erit Qui vere non crediderit coâ—demnabitur Marci 16 Hée that shall belieue and bée baptized shal be saued But hée that shall not belieue shal be condemned Saint Paule hath taught it to the Romaines Chap. 5. Rom. 5. in these woords Justificati ergo ex fide pacem habeamus ad Deum per Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum per quem habemus accessum per fidem in gratiam istam in qua stamus gloriamar in spe gloriae filiorum Dei. Being iustified by faith therefore let vs bee at peace with God through our Lord Iesus Christ by whom wée haue accesse through faith into this grace wherein wée stand and doo reioyce in the hope of the glorie of the children of God To take from you all occasion of quarrelling I haue cited the words of S. Paule as I finde them in your allowed latine translation Although I doo know that in the gréeke it is thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pacem habemus And not habeamus Wée haue peace and let vs not haue peace but to a simple meaning minde the sence is all one whether wée say wee haue peace or let vs haue peace And in the end of the sentence it maketh no difference to say wée glory or reioyce in the hope of the sonnes of God or wee reioyce in the hope of the glory of God For take it which way yee will Saint Paules meaning must néedes bée that wée are iustified that is wée apprehend and lay hold vpon frée discharge of our sinnes that wée haue by the mediation of Christ onely by faith and by none other meane And againe in the second Chapter to the Ephesians Ephe. 2. Saint Paule writeth thus Gratia enim estis saluati per fidem hoc non ex vobis Dei enim dâ—num est non ex operibus ne quis glorietur For by grace that is frée mercy you are saued thorough faith and that not 〈…〉 selues For it is the gifte of God and commeth not of workes least any man should boaste The Epistles of the Apostle Paule are full of matter to prooue this pointe of doctrine to bee true The second pointe of doctrine is as you doo terme it the contempt of good workes and that they bee all vncleane in the sight of God Wee contemne not good workes but wée esteeme of them as they ought to bee esteemed of that is as of the good fruites of a good faith And wée teach that no workes may bée accounted good otherwise or in any other respect but as they bée the fruits of a good faith This point of doctrine was taught by our sauiour Christ when hée sayd thus Lucae 17. Cum feceritis omnia quae praecepta sunt vobis Lucae 17. dicite serui inutiles sumus Quod de buimus facere fecimus When yee shall haue doone all that you are commaunded to doo then say we are vnprofitable seruants We haue doone that our duety was to doo And againe in the 20. of Mathew Math. 20. in the Parable of the labourers that laboured in the Vineyarde Volo autem
by Fayth Theyr Doctrine concerning the worthines of theyr owne workes All these and euery one of these doo yeelde the lyke conclusion for proofe that this offerer and his fellowes be such lyinge masters and false teachers as S. Peter writeth of in those wordes that this offerer aleageth against vs when they be taken wholy togeather as S. Peter wrote them I trust that the indifferent reader will easily sée howe well he may trust this offerer when he alleageth the scriptures for his purpose or matter out of the ancient doctors for the proofe of any thing that he taketh in hand to prooue The trueth of this testimony sayth this offerer is to bée tried by all sectaries and sortes of heretickes that euer haue béene and then he nameth certaine sortes of Heretickes that were troublesome to the Catholique Church in the primitiue time thereof and he affirmeth that the errours heresies that those sortes of men helde were by the generall councels the censures of the Catholique Church condemned ouerthrowne notwithstanding that Emperours and kings did stoutly vphold and maintaine them Here this offerer dealeth as cunningly as before he hath doone in citing his sentence out of S. Peters Epistle His meaning is to make it séeme to the reader that this Roomish Catholique Church hath had Emperours and Kings at commaundement euen these 1500 yéeres togeather and that all the generall councelles that haue béene holden haue béene appointed and called togeather by the Bishops of Roome onely without the authoritie of the Emperours and Kings that haue raigned in all this time Yea he would haue it séeme that the stoute Emperours and Kings which haue béene the maintainers and vpholders of errours and heresies haue béene bridled by decrées made in generall councelles and by the censures of the Roomish Church which haue bene by the holy fathers the Popes executed vpon them Platina De vitis patrū But if this offerer will giue any credite to Platina in his history De vitis patrum he shall finde in the lyfe of Siluester the first of that name in whose time the first generall councell was holden in Nice that the same councell was called together by the commandement of Constantinus then Emperour And if he will beléeue Lawrence Surius that lyued in our dayes and was a Carthusian Frier and gathered al the councels into 4 tomes he shal finde that the Constantinopolitan councel which was the second generall councell holden in the daies of Damasus the first Pope of that name was summoned or called togeather by Theodosius then Emperour And the first Ephesian councell which was the third general councell was holden in the dayes of Caelestinus the first Pope of that name and called togeather by Theodosius the yonger and Valentinian then Emperours And the Chalcedonian councell which was the fourth generall councell was holden in the dayes of Pope Leo the first of that name and was called togeather by the Emperours Valentinianus and Martianus that then raigned And this was 450 yéeres after Christs assencion wherby it appeareth that your account of 1500. yeres must be shorter by 450. yeres For so long time your Popes were at the commaundement of the Emperours as it was méete that they should and as they ought to be at this day as I haue sufficiently prooued in mine aunswer to your first Offer But now you must haue one fling more at the Lutherans and Protestants of our time What should you make mention of them say you sith in this realme the Lutherans haue taken their iust ouerthrowe all ready c. This Offerer and his fellowes building their foundation besid the rocke Christ which is the onely right foundation of right religion doo déeme that wée Protestantes haue none other foundation to build our religion vpon but Luther Oecolampadius Zuinglius and Caluine But they are disceiued For as I haue sayd in mine answer to the 15. Offer we doo not so estéeme of these or of any other men that we would builde our faith vpon them but we doo build vpon the rocke Christ as they did and we know that Dies declarabit in English the day wil declare That is the time of knowledge wherein the mist of darke ignoraunce shal be doon away the bright shining beames of the trueth shall make manifest in the harts of all men that haue eyes to see hartes to vnderstand whose doctrine ours or yours is méet to be called goold siluer and precious stones or on the contrarie timber haie strawe and stubble I know that the auncient fathers hauing occation to write of that godly life and conuersation that is required in Christians do vnderstand by gold siluer and precious stones such good workes as the right christian faith that worketh by looue is accustomed to bring forth and by the hay stubble and timber the contrarie And it is not amisse that in that case they doo so apply the words of the Apostle But in the circumstance of the text it appereth that the apostle meant rather of doctrin then of manners although the place may be applied to both because true christians doo teach both by doctrine and by life But to our purpose This Offerer dreameth that he séeth the Lutherans already ouerthrowen in this realme and al other sectaries for so it pleaseth him to terme all such as be not of his owne sorte yéelding vp the Ghost and ready to tylt vp their héeles For the Precisians and Puritans are in fauour with the common and baser sorte of the people and the magistrates doo so wincke at them that no small number of men of all sortes doo further and fauour them to the great encrease of them As touching the sectes that this Offerer speaketh of here enough hath béene spoken already We are christians we neuer were Lutherans Oecolampadians Zuinglians nor Caluinistes But in very déed many of vs were Papists before it pleased God in mercie to open the eyes of our vnderstanding and to shewe vs our saluation in our onely mediatour Christ Iesus To him alone we do now cleaue as to our onely shéepheard and high Préest His voyce we doo knowe and béeing his shéepe we harken to his voyce and we doo followe him We can not abide to here the voice of straungers Precisians and Puritans we can not mislike of if they bée such as all christians should bee that is precise in obseruing and kéeping of the commandements of God according to that which is written Deut 5 Deu 5 kéepe and doo those thinges that the Lord God hath commaunded you you shall not bowe to the right hand nor to the left but ye shal walke in that way that your Lord God hath commaunded you c. Such Precisians we do like well of and we doo still beg of God in prayer that it may please him in mercie to make vs euery day more precise then other And we are perswaded that no man is or can be so precise that way as all Christians
ought to bée Puritans also we must néedes like well of if they bee such as the apostle Iames discribeth Iacob 1 Iacob 1 If any man doo thinke himselfe to bée religious and yet refrayneth not his tongue but suffereth his owne hart to be disceiued this mans religion is vaine This religion is cleane and vnspotted before God and the father For a man to visite the fatherles and widowes in theyr trouble and to kéepe himselfe vnspotted of this world Such as haue a care to refraine theyr tongues frō all euill spéeches and all the partes of their bodies from euill actions And doo delite to be occupied in dooing good to all such as do stand in néede which is meant by the fatherles and widowes are the right puritans such as al christians shold endeuour to be in Christ Iesus all vnfained christians are pure being so made by the blood of Christ wherin such are washed made cleane so that in them there is neither spot nor wrinckle for Christ hath made them a glorious spouse for himself Eph 5. Ephe 5 And yet if these will speake truely they must euerie one of them say with the Apostle Paule Rom 7. There is nothing in me that is to say in my flesh vnderstanding therby his nature which is good And with th'apostle Ioh 1 Epi. 1. 1 Iohn 1 If we say that we haue no sin we deceiue our selues and ther is no truth in vs. Beeing baptised in Christ Iesus we haue put Christ vpō vs Christ is our garment Gala 3. Gala 3 Our care shold be to continue in that purity that we haue in Christ and to kepe the garmēt of ours vnspotted I haue thought it good to take this occasion to writ thus much in the defence of right precisenes and purenes of life because I doo sée that our subtile enimie the deuill laboureth to bring into contempt that precisenes in obseruing of Gods commaundements that al christians shold striue to attaine vnto and that purenes of life that is most séemely for al christians to walke in And he hath preuailed so much already that to great a number amongst vs doo make little or no consience at all in the transgressing of any commādement of our good God Some there be in déede that are noted by the names of Precisians Puritans which may more rightly be called péeuish ones These we Protestants doo not lyke of but would as gladly be ridde of them as you would be of vs. And the number of them is not so great as this offerer would haue it seme to be neither are they furdered and fauored of so many as hee reporteth although their number be greater then we wold wish it to be It is perceiued that they doo professe and hold the true and right religion of Christ and would gladly that it were purged of all Roomish drosse and that the pure wheat that is in Gods threshing floore were clensed from all roomish chaffe but béeing caried away with faruent zeale they runne before them that should lead them and doo hinder the cause that they would gladly furder When God wil these shal by his good meanes be brought to consider better of the matter and you roomish Catholiques shal be confounded This offerer concludeth against him selfe and his fellows for not we but they are the sectaries heretiques that by moouing flitting and passing from euill to worse are now at the laste come euen ad profundum malorum to the very bottome of euil and to a plaine open apostacy and falling away from Christ and ioyning with antichrist Yea and it appereth that you are perswaded that béeing ioyned to that antichrist of Roome as to your spirituall head you néede not to passe either for God or Deuill heauen or hell for your Pope hath absolute power both in heauen on earth and in his owne prison purgatory to Now let the offerer and his fellowes marke what I shall say For as much as the heresies of the popish Catholiques haue béene from time to time so fickle moouing their end in falling away frō Christ so horrible in the sight of God let any roomish Catholique liuing reply directly plainely with out all cauill colour or fraude of words without all vnprofitable impertinent digressions not only to this but to all the answers that I haue made to the foresayd signes tokens and demaundes and then will I for companie and good fellowship leaue the true catholique church of Christ wherin is the plaine way of saluation beaten by all our forefathers the true Catholique protestants for the space of these 5530 and odde yeres euen from the time of the first man and now wander with the romane Catholiques in their vncertaine by pathes of Popish deuises through vnknowē deserts of popish opinions through rough woods brambles briers of popish religions to séeke in the ende we can not tell what The offerers exhortation And here to conclude and for my parte to minister vnto you some occasion in the relinquishing of these priuate churches and congregations of sectaries to returne to the vnity attonement of the commō knowen catholique Church of Christ where stability and constancy of faith religion is onely to be found I shall here lay before you the worthy example of the blessed martir Sebastian by him brought of a loafe of bread to Genserichus then king of the Vandalles a furious and a barbarous nation which breaking into Affricke they found there many valiant Captaines placed by the Emperour Theodosius the second for the defence sauegard of the country amōgst the rest was this Sebastiā by dignity an earle a couragious and valiant Captaine who with the rest yeelding to the force of Genserichus was as Victor de persecutione Vandalorum writeth for his great wisedome and valiantnes not so much beloued as feared of the king Genserichus who being an Arrian intended by collour of religion to work his death For Genserichus knowing Sebastian to be a seuere perfect christian man conuented him before the Arrian Bishops vnder the pretence that Amity and freendship might be the surer and continue the longer betwixt them Genserichus mooued him to become an Arrian to professe the same fayth and religion as he and his people were of For answer thys holy martyr Sebastian requested Genserichus the king to command a fine wheaten loafe to be brought vnto him And taking it in his hand And here to omit many of his words notable sayings he requested the King Genserichus to commaund the loafe of bread to be broken in peeces to be ground brought to floure and boulted a fresh to be seasoned with water salt and baked againe if then it should in the ende prooue better bread then it was before he would not faile to accomplish the king Genserichus his wil and pleasure but if it were not possible by breaking the loafe baking it againe to better it but to make
worse bred then before he wold not nor cold not consent therunto in fine suffered death in defence of the christian faith religion by him already professed receiued rather then he would condiscend to the imparing infringing or breaking of any parte thereof And so Genserichus caused this blessed man Sebastian to die a holy Martyr Thus much I haue breefly deducted out of the historye of victor to the intent that so apte and familier an example of so holy blessed a martir might in these perplexities and doubts in these ofte changes and mutations of religion comfort the weaklings of Christ his Church bring them to some more better stay when by this example of Sebastians Loafe certaine and sure we may be that the loafe of the vnitie of Christ his Church the loafe of his Gospell faith and religion being by Schisme and Heresie neuer so oft broken neuer so finely grinded boulted searced and sifted kneaded and baked againe againe they shall neuer be able to better it or to bring it to that perfection which it had before And therefore all theyr attempts to the contrary are most vaine the only remembrance of this Sebastians loafe shold suffise to confirme the faithful to stay the wauering and weakelings and to plucke the disceiued bake againe to cause theÌ„ in leuing of this theâ—r fickle waue ringnes of this their proceedings as they terme it from one sect to an other from one congregation to an other from their scattering abroad with antichrist to stay themselues and to gather themselues with our Sauiour Christ into the vnity of his common knowen catholique Church where they shal be sure to finde vnity of religion vniformity of al ceremonies and obseruation of the same with th'attonment of christian faith throughout in all Sacraments articles of our Creede to the paâ—â—sying of many contentions and sâ—â—â—â—â— amongst vs to the quietation of mens consciences in causing vs all professors of Christ as brethren here to liue together in quietnes peace vnity to the more better assuraunce of the publique estate of this realme and to the great glory and honour of almighty God to whom be al praise honour and glory world without ende Amen Crowley That example that you say you will lay before vs to giue vs occasion to leaue these priuate churches and congregations of sectaries and to returne to the vnity c is a very méete example to be vsed by the learned Protestant that if it be possible he may thereby drawe you backe againe from your apostacy wherein you run a whoring after Roomish Idols and delite your selfe in antichristian breathing out of blasphemy against God and all godlines to embrace that vnity attonement that is in verity professed by that common knowen catholique church of Christ wherin stability and constancy of faith and religion were to be found in that time wherin Sebastian suffered manfully for the testimony of Christ and was made a martir that is a witnes of Christ As for the truth of the historie that you cite out of Victor I wil not impech it although I do find in histories that Sebastian suffered martirdom in the daies of Diocletian which was 100 yeres more before either Theodotius secundus or Genserichus did beare any rule at al. But let the history be as true as you would wish it to be the example is the thing that may serue the learned protestants purpose verie well Sebastian being conuented before the Arian Bishops is by king Genserichus required to become an Arian but for answere he requesteth the king to commaund a fine wheaten loafe to be brought vnto him which being doone hee requesteth the king to commaund the same loafe to bee broken into péeces c. Here the learned Protestant will say that the wheat wherof this loafe was made did not grow in the field of that romish Catholique Church that this Offerer doth brag so much off neither was it thresshed in the threshing flowre ground in that myll sifted with that Siue or boulted with that boulter nor knode in that kneading fatte nor baked in that ouen For at that time which was about the end of the first 300 yéeres after Christ the Church that was in Rome was nothing like that romane Church that now is and hath bene euer since the daies of the Emperour Phocas The learned protestant will say that this loafe was made of that wheate which was sowed by that sower that went foorth to sowe his séede Mat. 13. Ma. 13 and being threshed in his threshing floore with the flaile of bitter persecution was fanned or wynowed by him that hath his fanne in his hand to purge his threshing floore Mat. 3. Ma. 3 and grownd in the Mill of oppression sifted or bowlted with the siue or bowlter of tentation knoden with the water of vnfayned hearty contrition in the end baked in the Ouen of hotte feruent loue zeale to true religion And all this was done in the time that was past when Sebastian required the king to call for a fine wheaten loafe Many had assaied before that time to make this bread better by breaking of this loafe and by working of it againe but they could neuer bring it to passe for the baker that did first bake it is so skilfull in baking such bread that it is not possible for any to amend that bread that he baketh or to bake any of the like goodnes They that attempted this matter before Sebastians time were these whose names doo ensue Symon Magus Alexander the Coppersmyth Hymenaeus and Philetus Nicolas the deacon Cerinthus Menander Ebion Gnostici Basilides Saturninus Valentinus Syrenus Carpocrates Marcellina Montanus Seuerus Tacianus Alogiana secta Hierarchas Berillus Noetus Tertulianistae Origianistae Nouatus Sabellicus Nepos Paulus Samosatenus Martion Manes All these had endeuoured before the daies of Sebastian to make better bread of this loafe then the heauenly baker had made but it would not be And euen so haue a number moe done since the dayes wherein Sebastian suffred martyrdome but all in vaine Yea and none haue at any time done more in this matter theÌ„ this Offerer his fellowes haue done doo still but all their labour is lost so shall it be still let them doo what they can to amend it they shall finde in the end that it is so perfect that no man can be able to amend it or to make the like The learned protestant therefore neither wil nor can consent to leaue that church or congregation which the Offerer calleth priuate which is in déed most publike hath in it that stability constancie of faith religion that none other church either hath or can haue for it hath continued euen from the beginng is rightly figured by that loafe of Sebastian that the Offerer hath spoken of for the heauenly baker alone hath mowlded made baked it hath giuen it vertue to féed vnto euerlasting life al such as doo or shall taste thereof take pleasure therein yea rather then the learned protestaÌ„t would forsake this heaueÌ„ly Bethlehem or house of bread ioyne himselfe to the Romish Bethauen or house of vanity confusion he will yéeld to suffer most painful death in his body for that christian religion faith that he hath already receiued professed Which is in déed the right Catholique faith religion of Christ Iesus to the impairing infringing or breaking of any part wherof he wil in no case condiscend or agrée Thus this Offerer his fellowes may sée how aptly this example of Sebastian serueth for the staying confirming of such protestants in the church of Christ as be weake are by these often chauÌ„ges of religion brought into perplexities doubts For by this example of Sebastians loafe we may be most certaine sure that although the loafe of the vnity of Christs church the loafe of his gospell religion be by schismes heresies neuer so often broken neuer so finely grinded bowlted searced sifted kneaded baked againe and againe yet it is most apparant that no goodnes can be added to the first goodnes that is in this bread which the heauenly baker hath baked Let this Offerer his fellows therefore haue a due consideration of Sebastians loafe for thereby they may be confirmed in the right faith of Christ staied from wauering pluckt back againe from their erroures and caused to procéede from one degrée of perfection to another yea to stay theÌ„selues from scattering abroad with Antichrist to séeke saluation here there and they know not where It may cause them also to gather them selues togither with our sauiour Christ into the vnity of his coÌ„mon knowne Catholike church wherein they shal be sure to finde vnity of true religion Attonement of right Christian faith in al sacraments Articles of our créed no superfluous or dumbe ceremoÌ„ies or superstitious obseruances To the pacifying of all contentions striffs to the quieting of all consciens causing al the professors of Christ to liue here in quietnes peace vnity to the better assurance of the publike estate of this realme to the great glory honor of almighty God to whom be all praise honor and glory world without ende Amen FINIS
shew great signes wōders in so much that if it were possible that very elect shold be brought into error But behold saith our sauiour I haue told you before hand c. The moe miracles you doo brag of the greater cause we haue to suspect you for these are not the daies wherin credit is to be giuen to miracles but wherin workers of wonders are to be had in suspition Your Church hath you say remission of sins In déed the true catholique church of Christ hath so but not according to your meaning as I think The true catholique church whereof we are members hath remission of sins in Christ and by his mediation And therfore in the confession of our faith we say we beléeue the remission of sins But as I think your meaning is that your church hath power to forgiue sins And hereupon you ground your ingendulces pardons for many yéeres many Lentes and in diuers considerations plenary forgiuenes A paena a culpa Both from the payne that the faulte hath deserued and from the fault it selfe also This remission of Sinnes your Pope bestoweth at hys pleasure but neuer for naught But whether he doo giue or sell this remission of sinnes he dooth in taking vpon himselfe to forgiue sinnes shewe him selfe to bée that man of sinne that S. Paule wrote of the 2. Thessal 2. 2 Thessa 2 Who sitting in the temple of God boasteth hymselfe to bée God For who can forgiue sinnes but God onelie Marci 2. Marci 2 Wée doo know and confesse that our sauiour Christ hath giuen powre to his church both to remit and to retaine sinnes and that powre dooth our Catholike church exercise by certifying the penitent sinners by the scriptures that their sinnes vnfainedly repented be vndoubtedly pardoned through Christ in whom they must belieue assuredly that shal be capable of this remission of sinnes But our Catholike church dooth not make sale of this remission of sinnes as your popish Catholike Church dooth And our Catholike church hath powre to retaine the sinnes of such sinners as shée findeth obstinate and impenitent by certifying them by the scriptures that except they shall repent vnfaynedly and belieue the gospell that is the glad tydings of frée pardon of all their sinnes in and by Christ their sinnes shall neuer bee forgiuen The scriptures are the keyes that Christ gaue vnto Peter and in him to his whole church as S. Augustine hath written in his fiftith treatise vpon Ioh. Si hoc ergo in Ecclesia fit August in Io. tract 50. Petrus quando claues accepit Ecclesiam sanctam significauit If this thing be done in the church then when Peter did receiue the keyes hee did signifie the holy Church So that the power of loosing and binding belonged not to Peter alone but to him togither with the rest of the Apostles wherefore the same powre dooth not now belonge to any one person alone in the Church but to the whole Church togither You say further that your church hath the true sense interpretation of the woorde of God so that no sense or interpretation of Gods woorde may bee taken for true but that which is set down by your church although that which is set downe by your church shal be prooued to bee directly contrarie to the text of Gods woord it selfe In your generall counseil holden at Trident in the yéere 1563. and in the tewenty fifth Session thereof your church hath anathematized as many as shall hold or teach that the Images of Christ of the virgine his mother and of other saintes be not very profitable for Christians and that they are not to bee worshipped Their decrée concerning this matter beginneth thus Jmagines porro Chrsti c. That is The holy Synode dooth commaunde that the Images of Christ and of the virgin the mother of God and of other saints to be had and retained especially in churches that due honor and worship bée giuen vnto them This is the sense and interpretation that your Catholike church hath set downe in that decrée concerning the meaning of these sentences written in the woord of God Cursed is that man or woman that shall make a carued or molten Image that the Lord abhorreth the worke of the hands of Craftesmen and shall set it in a secret place Deut. 27. Deut. 27. Againe in Esay Cap. 44. Quis formauit Deum c. Who hath fashioned a God and hath made a carued Image Esay 44. Exod. 20. that is good for nothing And againe Exod. 20. Non facies tibi scuptile c. Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen Image nor the likenes of any thing that is in heauen aboue or in the earth beneath nor in the water vnder the earth Thou shalt not worship nor serue them c. Yea and S. Paule in his second Epistle to the Corinthes 2. Cor. 6. 2. Cor. 6. What agreement is there betwixt the temple of God and Images directly contrary to the sentences of scripture your holy mother the Catholike church as you doo terme hir but in very déede the church of Antichrist hath in that generall counsell decréed that the Images of Christ of the Virgin the mother of God and of other saintes must be had and retayned especially in churches and that their due honour and reuerence must bée giuen vnto them Much more might bee noted out of your generall counselles where by it might bee made most manifest plaine that there was neuer any sorte of Heretikes that swarued further from the true sense and interpretation of the word of God euen in the chiefest points of religion then that Synagogue of Satan your Antichristian Catholike church hath doone for the space of these 1000. yéeres now last past almost and dooth still But your church is beautified with diuersity of states commended by Christ as with Martyrs with Confessors holy Virgins and such other If a man should require you to shew your Martyrologie and to shew the causes wherefore these Martyrs of yours suffered it would bee hard for you to make proofe that any one of those that you doo account for Martyrs did suffer for any other then for Antichrist If you shall begin with Thomas Becket the best that you can say for him is that hée died for the liberties of the Church And what were those liberties That all clergie men should be exempted from the powre of their princes So that if a clergie man should cōmit any maner of felonie murther or Treason or any other capitall crime none of the princes officers might deale with him to execute the penalty of the lawe vpon him as vpon a felon murderer or Traytor but he must be punished by this Ordinarie c. And what was this other then to dye for Antichrist who contrary to Christs doctrine vsurpeth authoritie ouer princes and wil not suffer any of his to be in subiection to princes and to princes lawes To bee briefe