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A09881 A consideration of the papists reasons of state and religion, for toleration of poperie in England intimated in their supplication vnto the Kings Maiestie, [and] the states of the present Parliament. Powel, Gabriel, 1576-1611.; Colleton, John, 1548-1635. Supplication to the Kings most excellent Majestie. aut 1604 (1604) STC 20144; ESTC S105148 106,538 134

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Ergo Popery is true Religion and to be tolerated ANSWERE 1 THis Reason is parallel vnto the 31. Reason But I answere farther 2 I. The lustre and glory of the Church is two fold Interiour and Exteriour the inward glory is that which consisteth in purity of doctrine the outward glory consisteth in the amplitude and peaceable state of the Church The inward glory never faileth in the Church but the outward oftentimes doth Vnto this belongeth the succession of ordinary Pastours and Doctors for indeede there may bee a true Church without ordinary Pastors Where two or three consent in verity of doctrine there is Christ in the midst of them there is the Church Againe the Church fled into the wildernes where for a time shee was fed by God c. 3 The Popish Wolues are not true Pastours and Doctors of the Church wherof the Apostle Paule speaketh Eph. 4.11 For in the Papacie we see the Pope extolling himself aboue all yea sometimes two three or fowre Popes at once cursing banning one the other into the pit of hell and fighting many a bloody cūbate for Peters chaire as they say We see many Cardinals Patriarkes Archbishops Bishops Abbots c. which represent Herods or Pharaos court yea which bear the shew of the Babylonian or Persian Monarchy following them in all ambition arrogancy vanity luxurie rather then the Apostolicall state of the Ecclesiasticall Ministry whereof the Apostle Paule speaketh 4 The Lord gaue vnto his Church Pastours and Doctours the Suppliants vrge out of Paule Eph. 4. Bee it so But here is no mention of Pope Cardinals Monkes Friers Iesuits Priests c. VVherefore we may retort this Argument vpon the Papists themselues thus They only haue a true and a lawfull calling and ordination in the Church who are mentioned by the Apostle Paul Eph. 4.11 But the Pope Cardinals Abbots Moonks Friers Iesuits Priests c. are not mentioned by the Apostle Ergo These haue no lawfull calling 5 Againe That is the true Church in which there is a lawfull vocation ordination of Pastours and Ministers In the Popish Church there is no lawfull ordination of such as we haue proved before Ergo The Popish Church is not the true Church 34. REASON OF RELIGION A Religion whose doctrine is to be a Begging of the question traced even vp to the Apostles chaire by true and lawfull succession of Bishops every of them holding b Vntruth vnitie with his predecessour and keeping still as the Apostle directeth the depositum that descended from hand to hand vnto them Which vninterrupted line of succession never leaping over the head of any one age or c False as appeareth every wherin ther owne Histories yeare drawing his originall from the Apostles can not but d This woude be prooved not saide neces arily proue that our Church is only the true Apostolical Church and that we e Impudent Begging continue and contende as we are cōmanded Coloss 1.23 Phil. 3.16 Jude v. 3. in and for the faith which was first preached And it is also evident by the irrefragable authority of S. Paule that the Romanes had once the true faith affirming their e faith to be renowmed in the whole world and common to him and them Likewise it is evident by the vniforme report of all Ecclesiasticall histories and by the writings of al the Fathers (a) Theodoretus * Great Crie Litle Wooll in cap. 16. epist ad Rom Prosp carmine de ingr in principio S. Leo de Nat. Pet. Aug. contr epist Fund cae 4. Oiosius l 7. cae 6. Chrysost in Ps 88. Epiph. haer 27. Prud in hym 2. S. Laurentij hym 12 Optatus l. 2. contr Donatist Ambr. lib. 5. epist de basilicis tradendis Hiero. in Catalogo Lactantius lib. 4 cap 21. de vera Sapien-Eusebius hist Eccles lib. 2 cap. 13.15 Athanas de fuga sua Cipria epist 55. nu 6. Tert. de praesic nu 4. lib. 4. Contr. Marcio nu 4. Origen in Gen. apud Euseb l 3. c 1. Jrenaeus l. 3 c. 3. Hegesippus li 3. c. 2. de Excid Hierosolym Caius Papias Dionis Episc Corinth citati per Euseb li. 2. ca. 14. 24 Jgnat epist ad Rom. Concil Calced act 3. and others Greeke and Latin yea and by the very sense sight of sundry monumēts yet extant that Saint Peter f This is very vncertaine can never be soundly demonstrated was at Rome suffred death there and was the first Bishop of that See Now if our Counterpleaders can sufficiently shew as we are sure the whole world cannot either that the Romanes haue since that time g left the faith which S. Paule commended in them or that any of the succeeding Bishops to S. Peter in that See haue changed the first faith by paring away any part therof or by adding any new doctrine contrary to the rule of the former or what vvas not taught before by the Fathers after explicitiuely added as a more clear particular declaration of the same if this wee say can be sufficiently shewed by h A senselesse issue required naming the Pope or other man who in such sort changed the primitiue faith the point or points of faith that were so chāged togither with the time place when where the change was first made we yeelde our selues to be i Whether you will yeelde your selues to be so or no it is certaine out of the Scriptures that you are such prophane Novellers yea Heretiks most worthy of the fagot Resolution of the 34. Reason Popish religion is that whose doctrine is to be traced even vp to the Apostles chaire by true and lawfull succession of Bishops every one of them bolding vnity with his predecessour keeping still the depositum that descended frō hand to hand vnto them Ergo Popish religion is true religion and consequently to be tolerated ANSWERE 1 THIS reason is in effect the same with the last that goeth before But I deny Antecedent 2 Popish religion cannot bee traced vp to the Apostels chaire but downe rather to Lucifers chaire for it is nothing but a Summarie and Epitome of Heresies as I have proved before pag. 44. c. and manifestly teacheth those doctrines of devils condemned by the Apostle 1. Tim. 4.1 3 Their Bishops Popes haue no right successiō either to any Apostle or Apostolike mā in place person or office 4 If the Papists had this personal succession yet were they never the nearer I The wicked Priestes oftentimes pleaded succession against the true Prophets and against Christ himselfe Ier. 7.4 Ierem. 8.8 Ioh. 8.44 II Vriah the Priest had this succession from Aaron yet to please King Ahaz he set vp an altar according to the patterne that the King had sent him of one that hee had seene at Damascus contrary vnto the commādement of the Lord. 2. King 16.10.11 III The Patriarke of Constantinople deduceth his local and
personal succession from Andrew the Apostle The Patriarke as Anti●ch sitting now at Damascus from the Apostle Peter and the Patriarke of Alexandria who sitteth now at Alcairum from the Evangelist Marke And yet the Papistes say that these Patriarkes are Heretiques Schismatiques for all their successiō Wherfore should not we iudge the same of them 5 It is not true that all the Popes of Rome helde vnitie with their predecessours Sabinianus was a mortall enemy of Gregorie I. Caranza Sum. Concil pag. 203. And the hoate warres betweene Stephen VI and Pope Formosus I haue laid downe before pag. 63.64 to insist in no more particulars 6 Much lesse is it true that they keepe the faith from the Apostles time for they gave heede vnto Spirites of e●rours and to doctrines of devils 1 Tim. 4.1 as I have often declared already 7 But say the Suppliants if we have corrupted the faith name who when and where it was corrupted This cavill is Answered already pag. 42. 43. VVhat is it not sufficient if I shewe that the Popishe faith is corrupt but I must needes declare what time by whom and where it was corrupted If one should shew vnto the Suppliants a man sicke of a consumption or a seare and rotten tree Wil they deny these to be such except he precisely define vnto them time place manner how they became so and began to consume and rotte Againe the Papists say their Church is like vnto a Ship wee cry out it is quite drowned with corruption errors which soake in by litle and litle through the clefts chinkes that were in the same Dare the Suppliants deny this excepte I tell them at what houre their ship began to cleaue shew thē the first droppe of water that soakt in The corrupting of the Church is not done in a moment of time but errours creepe in by little little which except they bee speedily prevented wil at last quite cōsume destroy the Church 8 Indeede if a sound healthful man should be beheaded at one blow if a tree were presently cut downe or violently puld vp by the rootes if the ship were drowned with one waue so if the Church being sound in every part were vpon the sudden destroyed by some present calamity then were it easie to note the very article of time other circūstances But the case betweene vs and the Papistes is otherwise VVee acknowledge that their Church did for a long time heape vp that masse of errors which at length oppressed almost the whole world And if the Suppliants wil cal for a witnesse hereof I will produce the Apostle Paule who speaking of the general Apostasie which should come saith 2. Thes 2.7 The mysterie of iniquitie doth already worke Reason of Religion 35 REASON OF RELIGION A Religion whose doctrine so generally symboliseth holdeth the like absolute a Begging of the question they consent neither with scriptures Councels nor Fathers consent with all parts of holy Scriprure that were ever received of the Christian worlde with the decrees of all confirmed Oecumenicall Councels with the ioint assertions of all ancient Fathers as shee is not driven like (b) The Lutheran Calvinist * Wee take thē as they be Apocriphall writings The Fathers oid so See pag. 92. reiect Baruch Toby Iudith the booke of Wisdome Ecclesiastic us the Machabees certaine Chapters of Esther the last parte of Daniel And the Lutherans the Epistle of S. James S. Paule to the * The Lutherens are manifestly slandered Hebrewes the Epistle of Saint Iude the second of S. Peter the seconde and thirde of Sains John other religions for defending her positions to reiect either Scripturie Councel or the vniforme opinion of Doctours but taketh the approbation of her doctrin from them all and teacheth all her children out of S. Augustine (c) Epist. 118. cap. 5. Disputare contra id quod tota per orbem frequentas ecclesia insolentissimae dementiae est To calthe lawfulnes of that into question which the whole Church frequenteth throughout the worlde is most insolent madnesse Resolution of the 35. Reason Popish religion holdeth absolute consent vvith all partes of bolie Scripture with the decrees of all Occumenicall Councels and with the ioynt assertions of all ancient Fathers Ergo. Poperie is true religion and to be tolerated ANSWERE 1 This Reason is the very same with the 28. Reason going before that is an impudent vaine brag which neither the Suppliants nor all the world shall ever bee able to proue 2 For indeed the grounds of Popish religion● are their owne private interpretations traditions of men without warrant either from the Scriptures or from General Councels or ancient Fathees that are of credite in the Church of God 3 I wil alledge but a few proofes for a tast amongst infinite of others which might be brought I. The Papists differ yea are quite contrary vnto the holy Scriptures The Scriptures teach iustification freely by faith in Christ without works Rom. 3.24.25 Ephes 2.8.9 c. The Papists condemne thē for heretiks that teach so The Scriptures teach that Christes offering himselfe once for all hath made perfect all them that are sanctified Heb. 10.14 The Papistes teach contrariwise that they must be perfected by the iteration of his sacrifice in the Masse The Scriptures teach that Christ ascended into heavē Colos 3.1 Act. 1.9 c. that the heavens must containe him vntill the resurrection of all thinges Acts 3.21 The Papists cōtrarily will haue him as oft as they consecrate to come downe to hide himselfe vnder the formes of bread wine The Scriptures say concerning the Cup in the Sacraments Drinke yee all of this Math. 26.22 The Papistes say that lay men must not drinke thereof The Scriptures forbid the making and worshipping of Images Exod. 20.4 The Papists allow both these The Scriptures preferre the speaking of 5. words in the Church that may be vnderstood before 10000. in a tongue not vnderstoods Cor. 14.19 The Papists thinke iust the contrarie The Scriptures account marriage honorable among all men in all estates the marriage bed vndefiled Heb. 13.4 The Papists condemne it in their Priests as a filthie life The Scriptures teach that God worketh even in the regenerate both to wil to performe even of his owne good pleasure Philip. 2.13 The Papists teach contrary wise in their doctrine of free-wil The Scriptures teach that there is but one GOD but one Mediatour betwixt God Man the man Iesus Christ 1. Tim 2. The Papists set vp a nūber of Mediatours Advocates besides The Scriptures teach that no man can lay any other foundation then that which is alreadie laide Christ Iesus 1. Cor. 3.11 The Papists have laid Peter his successours for the foundation of their Church 4 II They disagree from the sanctions of Oecumenical Councels The Apostles in the I. Synode decreede that the Disciples should not be burdened with