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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A17505	A replie vnto a certaine libell, latelie set foorth by Fa: Parsons, in the name of vnited priests, intituled, A manifestation of the great folly and bad spirit, of certaine in England, calling themselues seculer priestes VVith an addition of a table of such vncharitable words and phrases, as by him are vttered in the said treatise, aswell against our parsons, as our bookes, actions, and proceedings.	Clark, William, d. 1603.; Barneby, Francis. aut; Clarionet, William, attributed name.	1603 (1603)	STC 4321; ESTC S107159	173,407	232

might haue as I think he had a dispensation for it For he was in Rome in Cardinall Allens time and as it was said about that matter Besides it is not Apostasie to leaue the Iesuits order before the last vow which few of them haue taken vpon iust and reasonable causes How then could it be Apostasie in Ma. Mushe to leaue that vocation into the which he neuer entred Hee saith that the fiue chiefe poynts of which we are cleared by this booke to wit Schisme dealing with the Counsell our appeale to Rome hatred to the Iesuits and dealing in matters of state were neuer obiected against vs by the Iesuits but that eyther wee accused our selues thereof or else went about to purge our selues before we were accused Verily it is more then strange to see such apparant verities denied by so graue a man a religious person and one whom so many admire for wit and rare qualities Why all the world will controle him in the deniall of these things and himselfe both in the Apologie and this booke of Manifestation shall be a witnes against himselfe Doth he not often-times taxe vs with dealing with the state Ma. Bluet by name Ma. Doct Bagshawe Ma. Watson and others And doth he not say in the last Chap. 122. leafe that we yeelded to goe farther with the state in matters against Cath doctrine for fauour and credite or to make others odious then in conscience we could Doth hee not also say that Ma. Bluet dealt with the state to make Ma Watsons peace vpon condition that he should raile against the Iesuits How oft doth he inculcate our dealing with the state in treacherous sort aduising Cath in the last Chapter to beware of vs and keepe themselues out of our reach for feare we betray them What will not this man say and vnsay for his aduantage But his vntruthes are so common and frequent that it is impossible for him almost but to contradict himselfe sometimes for as you know oportet mendacem esse memorem hee that lyeth often must haue an extraordinary memory The reason is because falshoods haue not the like foundations that truthes verities haue whose ground is so certaine that the frame standeth sure and strait but contrariwise vntruthes being fained haue no certaine foundation and therefore the frames and buildings therevpon are vncertaine crooked and apt to alterations Againe for our appeale to Rome doth not himselfe also say that it was but a cauill and slight to winne time and purchase liberty and that it was reuersed by the Pope and therefore not auailable Doth he not in euery Chap both in the Apologie and this booke raile against vs for malice enuie and emulation against his Society in generall and diuers particuler men thereof Were his wits on wool-gathering where there are no sheepe in the Country that he cannot rememeber the very chiefe scope of his writing all this while vvhich hath been nought else but of our hate malice enuie and emulation to the Iesuits for the most part Wherefore were all his discourses in the Apologie of so many examples brought in of Iohn of Gaunt King Henry the eight Queene Mary c. of hurt that came by the emulations against religious men To what purpose are all his inuectiues in this Libell against vs if not in fauour of the Iesuits by vs impugned strange was his forgetfulnes or admirable is his folly Againe doth he not taxe vs in the Manifestation for dealing with the Scot then with the French and last of all of a new plot in England for the fauour of some great person to frame or inuent a new succession to the Crowne And yet heere he saith that the Iesuits neuer accused vs of these matters but that we accused our selues or went about to purge our selues thereof before we were accused Besides these open proofes out of his owne writings against himselfe I referre the matter to the Readers conscience whether of his owne knowledge if he were not extraordinarily ignorant in these our affaires he could with any conscieuce affirme these things not to haue beene commonly obiected against vs. And for the poynt of schisme it is so notorious to all the world that I cannot but blush in Fa Parsons behalfe to thinke that he hath the face to denie so open so apparant so generall so publike a thing Thus you see Fa Parsons honesty and this is all he sayeth of the Dialogue The next matter this Fa handleth is Ma. A. C. his letter to his Cosen In the discourse whereof hee so vncharitably inueigheth against the supposed author that you would much wonder if you read it It is but short yet so couched with pricks thornes and sharpe needles of choler so bitter and so biting that it is a world to see how hee straineth himselfe to bring the honest gentleman into obloquie Hee maketh mee to remember a tale of a certaine poore Catholicke recusant now in prison who hauing been a petty Musician and a wilde fellow in his young yeeres was for his pleasant conceits desired of diuers Iustices of peace in the country especially at Christmas time and much made of It pleased God to touch the hart of this Musician and hee became Catholicke and withall staied and reclaimed from his former madnes and wilde behauiour Soone after beeing knowne to be a Catholicke hee was apprehended brought to Winchester gaile called before the Iustices Being conuented before them some of them began to rate him and inueigh against him exprobrating vnto him his former course of life and mad and lewd behauiour Whereunto the poore Catholicke made this or the like aunswer It is a world saith he to see how you now runne vppon mee for these things when I was such a fellow as you speake of I was a welcome man to all your houses much made on who but I now it hath pleased God to call me to better courses you vpbraid mee with my old faults which then you delighted in And euen so in some part it fareth with father Parsons in his rayling against this Gentleman seeking all the aduantages that he can in his young yeeres which happily might haue a tast of youths vanitie yet neuer so vnseemly that his honour or reputation might iustly be called in question thereby that euer I haue heard all men that now know him will witnes that he is both very staied vertuous religious without exceptions a man of very good cariage notwithstanding Fa Parsons vncharitable and vnseemly speeches against him beeing a gentleman of worthy discent And therefore such base inuectiues to wisemen will seeme to proceede not from any generous disposition which alwaies regardeth men of sort according to theyr birth and education but from some dunghill of basenes it selfe whose thoughts sauor but draffe and swill For the particulers which father Parsons vrgeth out of this Letter I will passe them ouer assuring my selfe that if the Gentleman he noteth were the

such fauorites or factors as they imploy in their affaires practises abroad in the world This is a thing not vnknowne to many of our English men liuing abroad in the low Countries and else where How many did Fa. Holt deale with-all in the low Countries in this kind keeping correspondencie with many needy fellowes and imploying many bare mercenarie men in his affaires There be also that will affirme and of credit that Fa Rich. Walpole in Spaine giuing good store of crowns vnto a certaine English man whom it was thought he meant to vse in some honest peece of seruice was afterwards the matter being knowne examined how he came by so much money and he aunswered that he receaued it out of England from his friends But we all know that Fa Rich. Walpoles friends in England are not of such ability as to send him such exhibition Now would I aske Fa Parsons whence this money came But you perhaps wil demaund how such summes should come to their hands I aunswer that it is wel known that they haue had the disposition of the common purse for many yeeres and the receits of almost all legacies in pios vsus yeerely almes extraordinarie gifts besides restitutions de bonis incertis much for dispensations in diuers cases euery one running to them by reason of their large faculties and for alienations ad-vousions c. All which receites rise to no small summe There hath falne by way of legacies within these few yeeres of my knowledge besides what other men can say 2000. pound some affirme 3000. pound from one man of worth 500. pounds from an other priuate Gent 800. pound from another and some 100. pound yeerely in lands and rents besides All which portions besides infinite other legacies of lesse summes haue come vnto their hands and disposition and whereof no man can say iustly that he hath receaued one penny I verily think Besides Ma Iohn Gerard for his part got by one Gent 200. pound at one time the bonds for which I once saw by chaunce 700. pound at another time as his neerest kinsmen will depose besides the disposition of 100. pound by the yeere of which the Gent all accounts being taken to a pot of beere neuer spent 50. pound yeerely The said Iesuit had in another place by a priests procurement who told me thereof Clx. pound of another he receaued 500. pound in a matter of restitution certa pro incertis the party hauing compounded before by the aduise of another priest for 300. pound which he should haue giuen to the prisoners of Wisbich But this young Father comming to the party hoysed the sum vnto 500. pound and tooke it vnto himselfe depriuing the said prisoners therof Furthermore he receaued at times of a Gent and his mother by his meanes aboue 1000. markes All this to me is knowne besides what I know not of and what he hath gotten by the vse of his exercises in which kinde many will say he hath got no small summes Iudge then by these few examples what great summes may soone accrew vnto theyr purses and with this doe but consider how their factors and such as haue imployments for them in this kind grow from meane estates and small expences vnto good shewes in the world and much encrease in their yeerely expences Of which number two for example are generally knowne I dare say vnto many There is a Gentleman in London whose estate we know to haue beene so weake as that his shew could not reach vnto his ranke but shortly falling in with the Iesuits to be a factor for them since these late garboyles he is become a man of no meane reputation His maintenance is sound and large insomuch that whereas xx shillings hath been money in his purse heere-to-fore he can now hazard twenty nobles at play I verily thinke you will say that this encrease can come no other way then from their box There is likewise another Gentleman that hath beene longer acquainted with the Iesuits affaires and a man vvholie imployed by them especially as Dispensator or rather receauer of such beneuolences as haue beene giuen in pios vsus for the maintenaunce of poore prisoners We haue knowne this man somtimes of the Temple not so largely prouided for by his friends as able to make halfe that shew he now doth yet did he then enioy all that his friends had left him For if he remember when he vsed the Ordinarie at a kinsmans house of his owne with other Gentlemen his commings in were so small that diuers times and vnlesse I be very fowly deceaued for some yeeres together his kinswoman to maintaine his credit with the other Gentlemen gaue him his ordinarie money before meale to pay with the rest Belieue me by the port he now carrieth and the state he taketh vpon him therwith you would thinke him a man of no small reuenewes Whereuppon you may gesse that eyther his fortunes haue beene very extraordinarie of late and vnknowne too or else hee is largely beholding vnto his good Maisters that imploy him in these affaires But howsoeuer the world fareth vvith him I would his charitie or iustice or both were more indifferent in his distributions then they haue beene and that hee would not at his pleasure and small discretion discerne betwixt the deserts or not deserts of prisoners lay or priests and exempt at his will whom he list If he will be an Oeconomus or Dispensator hee must one day reddere rationem villicationis I remember once this Gentleman came vnto Bridewell to certaine poore prisoners there to see their wants and finding them in extreame necessity he began to examine them whether they resorted and to whom and finding that they were acquainted with a priest in the Clinck he turned his backe in a choler saying that they deserued nothing and that they should lie and doe as they would for him and so departed leauing them neuer a penny How true this is the poore prisoners that felt the smart can tell and one can testifie that was within hearing when this passed which I haue declared Many more hangers on this box and those hungry ones too could I name if I would spend my time so idly as to enrole them here I could name one that was of late a prisoner not for building of Churches who by his owne confession receiued 30. pound of the Archpriest and Iesuits This man should haue beene imployed for them in our affaires All this to any man of wisedome and indifferencie can import no lesse then that the Iesuits be Maisters of no small cōmings in when as both themselues are so well furnished and theyr followers and hangers on so extraordinarily prouided for But you will say that although much come to their hands yet doth it not follow that they either heape it vp for themselues or send it ouer vnto their Societie beyond the seas For it is well knowne that very much is sent by them

of Gods grace offered or no. Neither can any law or necessity in the world contradict or impeach the law of nature borne with man and alwaies remaining in him To the 5. poynt obiected by Fa Parsons wee haue said sufficient already for our honest and lawfull excuse in blaming or condemning of some actions done by worthy men not therby defaming or condemning such persons but such acts as errors in these worthy persons Which is not as hee falsly affirmeth to cast any fault vpon any worthy person or Martyr or to defame them in any sort sith the facts imputed vnto them were too too well knowne vnto the state and too publique vnto the world Whereby wee were but constrained to purge our selues as guiltlesse of any such matter rather choosing that the fault that was should fall vpon particuler men dealers therein and so knowne to be to the world then vpon the whole company of innocent priests Cath vvhich was I thinke but according to the rules both of iustice and charity And whereas it is sayd that if some of vs had beene of the counsell and knowing as much as we doe know wee should haue giuen our cōsents to straight lawes for the suppressing and preuenting of such wicked designements you must vnderstand that this is deliuered but as the particuler speech of some few and not of all in generall as Fa Parsons falsly setteth downe Neither did we say that we would haue giuen our consents to that which hath beene done against Catho as he maliciously peruerteth our words but onely to some straight lawes for the suppressing and preuenting of such wicked designments Which I thinke any good Common-wealths man in the world of what religion soeuer vvould haue done and could haue done no lesse then haue yeelded and giuen consent to make some straight lawes for preuenting the ruine and subuersion of his prince and country vnlesse he had beene perfidious vnto his prince and trayterous to his country But by your leaue Fa Parsons these lawes should haue haue been made to haue brideled such good fellowes as your selfe and others that haue dealt so perfidiously with theyr prince and countrey and not generally against all priests and Catholicks And we perswade our selues they had not been made so generall if her Maiestie and the state had seene into the rootes of such proceedings and knowne that they had growne only from some few particuler persons such as your selfe and not from the body or most part of priests and Catholicks Which the state could not see into discerne from the beginning beeing ignorant of the distinction which ought to be made betweene vs and your fellowes and therfore is not so much to be cried out against and defamed for tyrannie this ignorance considered as by you her highnesse her lawes and gouernment haue beene traduced making your selues thereby and by others the wicked enterprises the principall and chiefe cause of all such straight and bloodie lawes But rather is her Maiestie and the state to be excused and implored for more pitty and compassion towards vs for the time to com sith they now see farther into the true rootes springs and causes from whence and from whom such attempts haue come Neither is Fa Parsons recapitulation of some lawes made and some executed before their comming into England a sufficient excuse because it is well known that her Maiestie and the state was diuers times as by the Important considerations you may see irritated by sundry vndutifull attempts of her subiects and forrainers together before shee made anie bloody law at all And there are many pregnant presumptions that the Iesuits fingers were medling in some or most of them For there be Priests who haue heard Fa Parsons when they were Scholers in Rome make set Lectures for a whole Lent as I remember of all matters which had happened from her Maiesties beginning of her raigne In the discourse whereof he was so ready and could descend so farre into particuler plots and intentions of plots which neuer came to passe and were vnknowne to her Maiestie and the state as in the practise concerning the Earle of Northumberland and the like that you would sweare he or his had been in the bosome of euery such plot and deuise To the sixt and last point brought in preposterously as he commonly vseth to doe taking his bits by snatches heere and there to make vp his gallymaufrey it deserueth no other aunswer then hath already beene giuen it being no other but a fond exaggerating of his old common points with exclamation and bitter words without reason or proofe of any one absurdity or vniust vntruth deliuered by vs. Which argueth his spirit to be more fraught with spite then power or ability We will not aske him which of the seauen deuils rayleth and biteth with so many bitter words and false calumniation vniustly and vntruly against vs but hartily pray God to deliuer him from all incursions of the deuill and all Atheisme and Machiauelisme that he may sincerely see how he hath offended God by his plots and practises in abusing his poore afflicted Church in our Country and setting dissension and diuision in his Clergy for the compassing of his policies and designes which so long as he and his shal practise we cannot but still intreate Cath to forbeare the sending of their children vnto the schooles where such maisters as Fa Parsons and his associates shall be teachers and gouernours but rather to send them to other Vniuersities abroad in other Countries vntill God shall prouide better for vs. And thus we will end our aunswer vnto the first Chapter in which we haue beene ouer long and tedious because of the diuersitie of matters hudled vp therein by Fa Parsons after his accustomed manner desiring the Reader to beare with vs therein in that we were willing to open some things more largely that such as were ignorant or not so well acquainted with these our affaires and the true causes of them might see the better into the very grounds of all which being so largely deliuered in this first chapter we shall with more facility and more briefly passe ouer the rest that followeth alwayes as occasion happeneth referring you to what is deliuered at large in this first treatise An aunswer to the second Chapter concerning our pretended passionate spirit in the manner of the handling of our former arguments FA Parsons his 2. Chap. containeth little in substance but what hath beene said in the former and is at large by vs aunswered onely hee hath taken a little paynes in speaking largely in his owne prayse to the commendation of some others of his owne order because they want good neighbours to aduaunce and extoll them and in gathering together of some cholerick words heere and there deliuered in some of our former bookes In which kind of style although he and some of his deserue the garland yet he omitteth not to make the best shew of aduantage thereby

betters the worthy congregation of the Inquisition vnto whom it is dedicated and presented And as for his carping at the similitude of the man casting out deuils in Christes name I will let it passe for him to take his aduantage as he list and make his owne exposition For I verily thinke that euery wise man that readeth his interpretation thereof will discouer more folly in him for his applycation not intended by the Writer in that sence but onely a simili then in him that first alledged the example And for our accepting or seeking of fauour at the hands of Protestants and our Gouernours in temporalities I think no man can condemne vs therein vnlesse he will also condemne the practizes of all times of persecution both in the time of the law of Moses and also since Christ In the 28. page he citeth certaine words of the Epistle to the Important considerations wherein it is affirmed that there is no sinne arising vpon infirmitie and frailty of man committed by an Apostata an Infidell an Hereticke a Schismatike an Atheist cast out of the fauour of God and accursed out of his Church but a Cath may fall into the same and yet remaine constant in his religion to death This father Parsons affirmeth to be a false assertion And therein say I that fa Parsons manifesteth more folly then all the follies hee noteth in all our writings put thē all together to say nothing of his ignorance or simplicitie For it is a matter certaine and de fide that a man hath free wil vnto all kinde of sinnes and it is no lesse manifest that sinnes of infirmitie and frailty neuer cut a man off from Gods Church Neither can infidelitie heresie or schisme be termed sinnes of infirmitie or frailtie but of malice For no man can be an Infidell heretick or schismatick without obstinacie and pertinacity of will which cannot be called frailtie Therefore may a Catholicke commit of frailty any sin that an Infidell hereticke or Schismaticke committeth remaining still a resolute catholick And this we see daily by experience all Catholicks being not saints See therefore vvhat learning fa Parsons dropped out heere and what store of wisedome hee shewed in contradicting so manifest a truth Now will I leaue the Reader duly to consider whether our follies in relating such things as heere and in the first chapter fa Parsons obiecteth being vrged thereto vpon necessity in defence of our innocencie be greater or his in cunning iugling and shifting alwaies flying the true and reall poynt of controuersie and carping at by-matters and for his aduantage reporting our words and speeches falsly and otherwise then they were deliuered by vs. Whereby we haue been enforced as you see to take him tripping to his eternall disgrace if he haue any grace left which we had not done if his ouermuch boldnesse had not made him run himselfe out of breath forgetting all truth honestie and sinceritie An aunswer to the third ●●●pter concerning our pretended follie and presumptuous spirit in making to ur selues such aduersaries as we doe IN father Parsons handling of this chapter I cannot but wonder at his exceeding ouersight in that he admiring so greatly our follies would so palpably discouer his owne For what man I beseech you of wit or vnderstanding would vrge the contradicting of our Archpriests vniust oppressions our exclaming against the Iesuits vncharitable courses against our selues and condemning their vnnaturall practises against their prince and state our resisting of the King of Spaines attempts against our Country our displaying the cruelty of Spanish Souldiers the tyrannie of their gouernment to auert the minds of all naturall English men from all vaine and mad expectations of any good by their inuasions as foolish occasions giuen by vs to make to our selues enemies of our Archp the Iesuits and the King of Spaine What great potent person is Ma. Blackwell in the world that he may not be contradicted when hee doth amisse Is it lawfull to resist and appeale from a Bishop an Archbishop a Patriarch and is it not lawfull to appeale from an Archpriest Must iustice be afraid of bugges If any irreuerent speeches haue beene vttered where they should not haue beene we are sorry for it and let your payment made to the full in the same kind cancell ours But otherwise for our proceedings against Ma Blackwell our Archpriest wee doe and will defend them and you in all your discourse in his behalfe seeme to draw more from vs vnto him then euer was due to any subordinate Superiour in the world vnlesse you would put infallibility in euery gouernour without the which no such bands can be but that iust exceptions may be taken against them and appeales there-vpon framed prosecuted as you see in our case is admitted Concerning your potent order such vizards are for children and temporisers and not for men of our profession who should in euery cause preferre iustice and right before potencie and might We know many in your order to be apt to remember old quarells and to pay home when aduantage time serueth and we looke for no other at your hands But what then Shall we therefore desist to prosecute iustice and hinder your exorbitant endeuours Shall I hold my tongue because Fa Parsons may worke me a shrewd turne if I come into Spaine or Italy No no non confundar pro anima mea dicere verum I will God willing vtter nothing but truth and necessary truth and that shall out let Fa Parsons threat what he can And touching the Spaniards they are professed enemies to our Prince and Country and seeke nothing more then our subuersions As they are Cath in Christian charity we wil loue them but as enemies to our Country we contemne them and will with our bloods resist them And as I suppose we haue not onely right so to doe in respect of our Countries defence but also iure gentium in that they were the first breakers of the league betwixt vs and them as by their attempt in Ireland in the yeere 1579 may appeare to omit the plot of Robert Rodulphi some yeeres before But in this Fa Parsons plainly discouereth his loue and affection towards his Country and what a treacherous minde he carieth towards his true and naturall Prince in that he seeketh to draw her naturall subiects to keepe amity and beare affection towards her professed aduersarie and the onely enemie of our Country Howsoeuer false harted he be yet was it a point of exceeding great folly for him so openly to discouer the same that now no man of wit or discretion and loue to his Prince and Country which euery naturall borne English is bound to haue can iudge other of him then as a professed enemie vnto them both And touching the Colledges and Pensions that are maintained and giuen by the Spaniard which he so oft inculcateth we no whit thanke him for them as things are handled and occasions thereby ministred of