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A40689 The sovereigns prerogative and the subjects priviledge discussed betwixt courtiers and patriots in Parliament, the third and fourth yeares of the reign of King Charles : together with the grand mysteries of state then in agitation. England and Wales. Parliament.; Fuller, Thomas, 1608-1661. 1657 (1657) Wing F2467; ESTC R16084 264,989 306

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give speedy command for the present putting in practice those Laws that prohibite all Popish Recusants to come to the Court or within ten miles of the City of London as also those Law that confine them to the distance of five miles from their dwelling houses and that such by-past licenses not warranted by law as have been granted unto them for their repair to the city of London may be discharged and annulled 4. That whereas it is more then probably conceived that infinite summes of money have within these two or three yeares last past been exacted out of the Recusants within the Kingdome by colour of Composition and small proportion of the same returned into your Majesties Coffers not onely to the suddain inriching of private persons but also to the imboldning of the Romish Recusants to entertain Massing Priests into their private houses and to exercise all the mimick Rites of their grosse Superstition without fear of controll amounting as by their daily practice and ostentation we may conceive to the nature of a concealed Toleration your Majesty would be graciously pleased to receive this particular more nearly into your Princely wisdome and consideration to dissolve this Mystery of Iniquity patch't up of colourable Licenses Contracts or Preconveyances being but masks on the one part of fraud to deceive your Majesty and stales on the other side for private men to accomplish their corrupt ends 5. That as the persons of Ambassadours from forraigne Princes their houses be free for exercise of their own Religion so their houses may not be made free Chappell 's and Sanctuaries for your Majesties Subjects Popishly affected to heare Masse and to participate in all other Rites and Ceremonies of that Superstition to the great offence of almighty God and scandall of your Majesties people loyally and religiously affected That either the concourse of Recusants to such places may be restrained or at least such a vigilant watch set upon them at their returne from those places as they may be apprehended and severely proceeded withall ut qui pala● in luce peccant in luce puniantur 6. That no place of authority or command within any the Counties of this your Majesties Kingdome or in any ships of your Majesties or which shall be imployed in your service be committed to Popish Recusants or to Non-communicants by the space of a year past or to any such persons as according to direction of former Acts of State are justly to be suspected as the place and authority of Lords Lieutenants Deputy Lieutenants Justices of Peace of Captains or other Officers or Ministers mentioned in the Statute made in the third year of the reign of your Father of blessed memory and that such as by connivance have crept into such places may by your Majesties royall Command be discharged of the same 7. That all your Majesties Justices Judges and Ministers of Justice unto whose care and trust Execution which is the life of your Majesties Laws is committed may by your Majesties Proclamation not only be commanded to put in speedy execution those Laws that stand in force against Jesuits Priests Seminaries and Popish Recusants but that your Majesty would be further pleased to command the said Judges and Justices of Assize to give a true and strict accompt of their proceedings at their return out of their Circuits to the Lord Keeper and by the Lord Keeper to be presented to your Majesty 8 And for a fair and clear eradication of all Popery for the future and for the breeding and nursing up of an holy generation and a peculiar people sanctified to the true worship of almighty God That untill a provisionall Law may be made for the trayning and educating of the Children of Popish Recusants in the grounds and principles of our holy Religion which we conceive will be of more power and force to unite your people unto your Majesty in fastnesse of Love Religion and loyall Obedience then all pecuniary mulcts and penalties that can possibly be devised your Majesty will be pleased to take it into your Princely care and consideration These our humble Petitions proceeding from hearts and affections loyally and religiously devoted to God and your Majesties service and to the safety of your Majesties Sacred Person we most zealously present to your Princely Wisdome craving your Majesties chearful and gracious approbation The King's Answer to the Petition against Recusants March 31. 1628. My Lords and Gentlemen I Do very well approve the method of your proceeding à Jove principium hoping that the rest of your Consultations will succeed the happier And I like the preamble of my Lord Keeper otherwise I should a little have suspected that you thought me not so carefull of Religion as I have been and ever shall be wherein I am as forward as you can desire As for the Petition I answere first in generall that I like it well and will use those as well as all other means for the maintenance and propagation of that Religion wherein I have lived and doe resolve to die But for the particulars you shall receive a more full answer hereafter And now I will only add this that as we pray to God to help us so we must help our selves for we can have no assurance of his assistance if we do ly in bed and only pray without using other means And therefore I must remember you that if we do not make provision speedily we shall not be able to put one Ship to sea this year Verbum sapienti satis est The Answer to the same Petition by the Lord Keeper Coventrey TO the first point his Majesty answereth That he will accor●ding to your desire give both life and motion to the Laws tha● stand in force against Iesuits Seminary Priests and all that hav● taken Orders by authority of the Sea of Rome and to that end his Ma●jesty will give strict order to all his Ministers for the discovering and apprehending of them and so leave them being apprehended to the triall of the Law and in case after tryall there shall be cause to respite the execution of any of them yet they shall be committed according to the example of best times to the Castle of Westbitch and there be safely kept from exercising their functions or spreading their Superstitious and dangerous Doctrine and for the receivers and abettors they shall be left to the Law To the second His Majesty granteth all that is desired in this Article and to this end will give order to the Lord Treasurer Lord high Admirall and Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports that in their severall places they be carefull to see this Article fully executed giving strict charge to all such as have place or authority under them to use all diligence herein and his Majesty requireth them and all other his Officers and Ministers to have a vigilant eye upon such as dwell in dangerous places of advantage or opportunity for receiving or transporting any such as are here
mentioned and his Majesty will take it for good service if any will give knowledge of such as have connived or combined or shall connive or combine as is mentioned in this Article that Justice may be strictly done upon them To the third His Majesty will take order to restrain the recourse of Recusants to the Court and also for the other points of this Article his Majesty is well pleased that the Laws be duly executed and that all unlawfull Licenses be annulled and discharged To the fourth His Majesty is most willing to punish for the time past and prevent for the future any the deceits and abuses mentioned in this Article and will account it a good service in any that will inform himself his Privy Councell Officers of his Revenue Judges or Councell learned of any thing that may reveal this Mystery of Iniquity and his Majesty doth strictly charge and command every of them to whom such information is made that they suffer not the same to die but do their utmost endeavour to effect a clear discovery and bring the Offenders to punishment and to the intent that no concealed toleration may be effected his Majesty leaveth the Lawes to their course To the fifth His Majesty is pleased to prohibite and restrain the coming and resort to the house of Ambassadours and will command a vigilant watch to be set for their taking and punishing as is desired To the sixth He is perswaded that this Article is already observed with good care neverthelesse for the avoyding as much as may be errours and escapes in that kind his Majesty will give order to the Lord Keeper that the next Terme he call unto him all the Judges and take information from them of the state of their severall Circuits if any such as are mentioned in this Article be in the Commission for Peace that reformation may be made thereof and will likewise give order to the Lord Admirall and to such persons to whom it shall appertain to make diligent enquiry and certifie to his Majesty if any such be in place of authority and command in his ships or service To the seventh His Majesty doth fully grant it To the eighth His Majesty doth well approve it as a matter of necessary consideration and the Parliament now sitting he recommendeth to both Houses the preparation of a fitting Law to that effect and his Majesty doth further declare that the mildnesse that hath been used towards them of the Popish Religion hath been upon hope that forraign Princes thereby might be induced to use moderation towards their Subjects of the Reformed Religion but not finding that good effect which was expected his Majesty resolveth unlesse he shall very speedily see better fruit to adde a further degree of severity to that which is in this Petition desired Sir Edward Coke's Speech March 25. upon a Question of Law in point of the Iudgement given in the Kings Bench Mich. 3. Caroli Viz. That a Prisoner detained by Committment per special mandat Regis without expressing a Cause is not bailable wherein he held negatively and spake as followeth IT is true that the Kings Prerogative is a part of the Law of this Kingdome and a supream part for the Prerogative is highly tendred and respected of the Law yet it hath bounds set unto it by the Laws of England But some worthy Members of this House have spoken of forraign States which I conceive to be a forraign Speech and not able to weaken the Side I shall maintain That Master Attorney may have something to answer unto I will speak without taking another day to the body of the Cause yet keeping something in store for another time I have not my Vade mecum here yet I will endeavour to recite my Ancestours truly I shall begin with old Authority for Errorem ad sua principia referre est refellere The ground of this Errour was the Statute of Westm. 1 cap. 15. which saith that those are not repleviable who are committed for the death of a man or by the commandment of the King or his Justices for the Forrest for so it was cited and Stamford 72. expounding hereof the commandment of the King to be the commandment of the Kings mouth or of his Councell But it is clear that by praeceptum is understood the commandment of the Justices of the Kings Bench and Common Pleas and this is contemporanea expositio quae est fortissima in lege To this purpose vide Westm. 1. cap. 9. the book of 2. R. 2. item cap. 20. de malefactoribus in parc the book of 8 Hen. 4.5 item 25.26.29 cap. ejusdem statuti whereby it may appear that the commandment here spoken of to be the commandment of the King is his commandment by his Judges Praeceptum Domini Regis in Curia non in Camera So it is likewise taken 1. R. 2. cap. 12. in a Statute made in the next Kings reign and expresly in Dyer fol. 162. § 50. fol. 192. § 24. Shall I further prove it by matter of record Fac hoc vives it is 18. E. 3. Rot. 33. coram Rege Iohn Bilston's Case who being committed and detained in prison by commandment of the King was discharged by Habeas corpus eo quod Breve Domini Regis non fuit sufficiens causa All the Acts of Parliament in title of accusation are direct to the point and also the 16. Hen. 6. Brooke and Littleton 2.1 monstrans de fait 182 per Cur. The King cannot command a man to be arrested in his presence the King can arrest no man because there is no remedy against him 1. Hen. 7.4 likewise praedict stat cap. 18. the Kings pleasure is not binding without the assent of the Realm I never read any opinion against what I have said but that of Stamford mistaken as you see in the ground yet I say not that a man may not be committed without precise shewing the cause in particular for it is sufficient if the cause in generall be shewed as for Treason c. 1. E. 2. stat de frangend prison nullus habeat judicium c. there the cause of imprisonment must be known else the Statute will be of little force the words thereof doe plainly demonstrate the intent of the Statute to be accordingly I will conclude with the highest authority that is 25. chap. of the Acts of the Apostles the last verse where Saint Paul saith It is against reason to send a man to prison without shewing a Cause Thus Master Attorney according to the rules of Physick I have given you a Preparative which doth precede a Purge I have much more in store The substance of the King's Speech upon the relating of the proceedings of the Parliament to him by the Counsellers of the Commons House of Parliament 4. April 1628. HIs Majestie upon the Report made expressed great contentment that it gave him not valuing the money given comparable to the hearts shewed in the way
grievances breeds hate and dislike And because we have not to give what is asked Yet to give freely what we intend to give and so by this freeness we shall win the Kings heart M r. KERTON HE desires to know the Rock to the end we may avoid it and not to go back but forward in our conclusion S r. ROBERT PHILIPS HIs good hopes are in his Majesties royal care and wisdom That the free and great Councel is the best but time and hope of change is coming towards us Rome and Spain trench deeply into our Councels That heretofore there hath been a fair progress on both parts according to the saying of the late King If the Parliament did or should give more then the Countrey could bear they gave him a purse with a knife in it Serjant HOSKINS THat knowing our own rights we shall be better enabled to give Two legs go best together ' our just grievances and our supply which he desires may not be seperated for by presenting them together they shall be both taken or both refused Serjant ASHLEYS Argument seconding M r. ATTORNEY in the behalf of his MAJESTIE I Hope it will be neither offensive nor tedious to your Lordships if I said somewhat to second M r. Attorney which I the rather desire because yesterday it was taken by the Gentlemen of and argued on the behalf of the Commons that the cause was as good as gained by them and yielded by us in that we acknowledged the Statute of Magna Charta and the other subsequent Statutes to be yet in force for on this they inforced this general conclusion That therefore no man could be committed or imprisoned but by due process presentment or indictment Which we say is a non sequitur upon such our acknowledgement for then it would follow by necessary consequence that no imprisonment could be justified but by process of Law which we utterly deny For in the cause of the Constable cited by M r. Attorney it is most clear that by the ancient Law of the Land a Constable might ex officio without any Warrant Arest and restrain a man to prevent an affray or to suppress it And so is the Authority 38. Hen. 8. Brooks abstract So may he after the affray apprehend and commit to Prison the Person that hath wounded a man that is in peril of death and that without Warrant or Process as it is in 38. E. 3. fol. 6. Also any man that is no Officer may apprehend a Fellon without Writ or Warrant or pursue him as a Wolf and as a common enemy to the Common-wealth as the Book is 14. H. 8. fol. 16. So might any one arrest a Night-walker because it is for the common profit as the reason is given 4. Hen. 7. fol. 7. In like manner the Judges in these several Courts may commit a man either for contempt or misdemeanour without either Process or Warrant other then take him Shrief or take him Marshall or Warden of the Fleet. And the Adversaries will not deny but if the King will alleadge cause he may commit a man per mandatum as the Judges do without Process or Warrant And various are the cases that may be instanced wherein there may be a Lawfull commitment without Process Wherefore I do possitively and with confidence affirm that if the imprisonment be Lawfull whether it be by Process or without Process it is not prohibited by the Law Which being granted then the question will aptly be made whether the King or Councel may commit to Prison per legem terrae were onely that part of the Municipal Law of this Realm which we call the Common Law for there are also divers Jurisdictions in this Kingdom which are also so reckoned the Law of the Land As in Kendrick's Case in the report fol. 8. the 1. Ecclesiastical Law is held the Law of the Land to punish Blasphemies Schismes Heresies Simony Incest and the like for a good reason there rendred viz. That otherwise the King should not have power to do Justice to his Subjects in all Cases nor to punish all Crimes within his Kingdom The Admiral 's Jurisdiction is also Lex terrae for things done upon the Sea but if they exceed their Jurisdiction a prohibition is awarded upon the Statute of nullus liber homo by which appears that the Statute is in force as we have acknowledged The Martial likewise though not to be exercised in times of peace when recourse may be had to the Kings Courts yet in times of invasion or other times of Hostility when an Army Royal is in the field and offences are committed which require speedy reformation and cannot expect the solemnity of legal Trials then such imprisonment execution or other Justice done by the Law Martial is Warrantable for it is then the Law of the Land and is Ius gentium which ever serves for a supply in the defeat of the Common Law when ordinary proceeding cannot be had And so it is also in the case of the Law of the Merchant which is mentioned 13. E. 4. fol. 9.10 where a Merchant stranger was wronged in his goods which he had committed to a Carrier to convey to Southampton and the Carrier imbezelled some of the goods for remedy whereof the Merchant sued before the Councel in the Star-Chamber for redress It is there said thus Merchant strangers have by the King safe conduct for coming into this Realm therefore they shall not be compelled to attend the ordinary Trial of the Common Law but for expedition shall sue before the Kings Councel or in Chancery de dic in diem de horâ in horam where the Case shall be determined by the Law of Merchants In the like manner it is in the Law of State when the necessity of State requires it they do and may proceed to natural equity as in those other Cases where the Law of the Land provides not there the proceeding may be by the Law of natural equity and infinite are the Occurrences of State unto which the Common Law extends not And if these proceedings of State should not also be accounted the Law of the Land then we do fall into the same inconveniency mentioned in Cawdries Case that the King should not be able to do Justice in all Cases within his own Dominions If then the King nor his Councel may not Commit it must needs follow that either the King must have no Councel of State or having such a Councel they must have no power to make Orders or Acts of State Or if they may they must be without means to compell obedience to those Acts and so we shall allow them Jurisdiction but not compel obedience to those Acts but not correction which will be then as fruitless as the Command Frustra potentia quae nunquam redigitur in statutum Where as the very Act of Westminster first shews plainly that the King may commit and that his commitment is lawfull or else that Act would never
the Secretarie Super totam maternam It is evident that the Colledge at Clarkenwell is a Colledge of Iesuits holden under a Forreign Supream power Sir Francis Seymour taxeth Mr. Attorneys affection and judgement in this and also declareth continual Letters from Mr. Attorney in stay of proceedings against Recusants You see in this how slightly Mr. Attorney hath put over a business of this weight to Mr. Long. Cross the Pursevant saith there was an Eleventh man in the New Prison and the Keeper of that Prison said he was delivered by Warrant from the Councel-board Sir Iohn Elliot No man could find a way on which to vent his malice so much to this Church and State as by protecting these men That this may be fixed home on that great Lord of Dorset that I fear hath defiled his fingers too far in this business and on Mr. Attorney whom I am sorrie I have occasion to nominate so often in this matter of Religion in stopping of proceedings against Recusants Mr. Recorder is ordered to be sent for and to be examined in this rather than to be sent for having had the Honor formerly to sit in the Chair Secretarie Cook saith we shall find that the King being mercifull in case of shedding bloud gave direction for the repriving of those Priests Sir Iohn Elliot I doubt not when we shall declare the depth of this to his Majestie but he will render them to judgement that gave him advice herein Sir Nath. Ritch These Iesuits are bound by Sureties to answer further at the Councel-board I wish these Bonds would produce these Men that by examination of them we may find out the whole pack of their Benefactors and Countenancers Mr. Long saith that he offering at Session the Evidence by order from M. Attorney the Lord Chief Justice Richardson interrupted him and told him he must speak to the point in issue whether Priests or no Priests and hereupon the Judges consulted amongst themselves Mr. Selden saith he was present at the Sessions and plain Treason was proved and nothing done in it The further examination of this is referred to a select Committee Munday 16. A Petition of Complaint against Sir Henry Martin for disposing of the goods of one Brown who died intestate to his own private use Sir Henry Martin If I prove not my self as clear of this as St. Iohn Baptist let me be reckoned to be a Jew Referred to the Committee for course of Justice At the Committee for Religion MAster Stroud That the Lord Chief Justice may be called to give an account of his stay of Justice in the execution of the condemned Priests which he ought not to have done though his Majestie signified his pleasure to the contrarie Chancellor of the Dutchie That was a thing ordinarie for a Chief Justice to do in Queen Elisabeths and King Iames times as also a Declaration in the Star-chamber that all condemned Priests should be sent to the Castle of Wisbitch and from hence though the King had given no order for the replevie he might have taken his Warrant for his proceedings Mr. Selden reporteth from the Committee for the further examination of Mr. Long concerning the proceeding at Newgate against the Iesuits whereby plainly appeareth that the evidence tendered in the Court at Newgate did plainly testifie these men to be Priests yet the Lord Chief Justice Richardson did reject the same against the sence of the rest of the Judges and Justices present whereby it is plain he dealt under-hand to some of the Iesuites Ordered That two Members shall be sent to each Judge that were present at the Sessions at Newgate who were said to be the Lord Chief Justice of the Kings Bench the Chief Justice of the Common-pleas Justice Whitlock Justice Iones and Justice Crook Tuseday 17. MAster Chambers preferreth another Petition in complaint of a Warrant newly proceeding from the Councel-board for the stay of the Merchants goods unless they payed the duties that were due in King Iames his time Sir Iohn Elliot You see as by the last answer from the Exchequer the Merchants were bounded within the Court to sue for their own so they are now debarred from all means of coming by their own It is Ordered that the Customers shall attend the House on Thurseday next In the mean time it is referred to the former Committee Ordered a Committee of six to Collect and take all the names at the Fast and to meet at eight of the Clock in the Morning Ordered That a Committee shall consider of a speedie way to put the Merchants in Possession of their goods without which it is warned we sit here in vain Sir Thomas Hobbie Reported from my Lord Chief Justice Hide that he doth not remember any Papers tendred by Mr. Long were rejected or that he affirmed they were dangerous persons and a Colledge of Iesuits but howsoever Mr. Long tendred nothing to prove them so but that he had diverse papers in his hand Mr. Wansford Reported from the Lord Chief Justice Richardson who saith that Mr. Long did discourse of the place and house but did not press the reading of any papers neither doth he know what was in the papers neither knew he any thing to prove the persons Priests Sir Thomas Barrington delivereth the answer of Justice Iones who saith the same papers were offered by Mr. Long but he knoweth not the Contents thereof nor the reason why they were refused but he came late for want of his health and the second day was not there at all The like was Reported by Sir Will. Constable from Justice Crook Sir Thomas Barrington saith Although that Justice Iones did not write the name of my Lord Chief Justice Richardson yet in discourse named him to be the man that said The point in proof is not whether they be Priests or no Priests Sir Nath. Ritch Here is a charge of a high nature on the Judges by Mr. Long. That Mr. Long now may make good his Charge or suffer for it for there were witnesses enough in the Court. Ordered Mr. Long to be here on Thurseday Morning Ordered That the Justices about this time shall be required to deliver in the names of all Recusants remaining about the Town and their conditions and what Countrey they be It is Moved That the Gentlemen of the Inns of Court and of the Chancerie may give in their knowledge what Recusants are there Sir Iohn Stanhope That the Court may give in the names of Recusants there likewise by what Warrant these be about the Town and what publick charge of Office any of these persons have also what Priests and Iesuites are in any prison in London for they have libertie sometimes to go five miles to say Mass. Wednesday 18. A Publick Fast was kept by this House in Westminster where were three Sermons Thursday 19. MAster Dawes one of the Customers called in to answer the point of Priviledge in taking Mr. Rolles his goods being a Member of this