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justice_n	john_n	lord_n	time_n	8,617	5	5.3406	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A28899	A defence of the Scriptures, and the Holy Spirit speaking in them, as the chiefe iudge of controversies of faith ... with a vindication of that honour due to magistrates, ministers, and others ... in a relation of a disputation at Chesterfield in the county of Darby, between some ministers of the Gospell and James Naylor, an erring Quaker ... : with some animadversions upon a lying relation of that disputation, published by Iames Nayler / by Immanuel Bourne ...	Bourne, Immanuel, 1590-1672.	1656 (1656)	Wing B3852; ESTC R23281	45,977	64

A defence of the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit speaking in them as the chiefe Iudge of Controversies of Faith and of the light in them as needfull to be looked unto for direction to attaine Salvation With a Vindication of that Honour due to Magistrates Ministers and others according to their Places and Dignities In a Relation of a Disputation at Chesterfield in the County of Darby between some Ministers of the Gospell and James Nayler an erring Quaker The Questions disputed were these foure 1. Whether the Spirit of God speaking in the Scripture be the chiefe Judge of Controversies of Faith Affirmed by us Ministers of Christ 2. Whether the private Spirit in the Pope or in any Quaker be the chiefe Judge of Controversies Denyed 3. Whether every man be bound to looke to the light within him as sufficient for his direction to attaine Salvation Denyed 4. Whether it be lawfull to call any man Master or Father upon earth or to give any honour to man Affirmed In which The Truth is confirmed and the Quakers Errors and Blasphemies discovered and confuted and many places of Scripture from the Quakers false applications cleared With some Animadversions upon a lying Relation of that disputation published by Iames Nayler A man that is an Hereticke after the first and second admonition reject knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth being condemned of himselfe Tit. 3.10 11. By Immanuel Bourne Pastor of the Church in Ashover in the County of DARBY London Printed for John Wright at the Kings Head in the Old Bailey 1656. To the Right Honourable Iohn Glyn Lord chiefe Justice and to the Honorable Richard Aske Peter Warbarton Justices of the Upper Bench. To the Right Honourable Oliver Saint Iohn Lord Chiefe Justice and to the Honorable Edward Atkins Matthew Hales Hugh Windham Justices of the Court of Common Pleas. To the Right Honorable William Steele Lord chiefe Baron and to the Honorable Iohn Parker Ro Nicolas R Tomlins Barons of His Highness Court of Exchequer To the Right Honorable Commissiary Generall Edward Whaley Major Generall of the Counties of Nottingham Darby Lincoln Leicester Warwick And to all other the Honorable and Worshipfull Justices and Officers for the preservation of piety and the peace of the Nation The blessing of truth and true peace here eternal happines hereafter Right Honorable MAY it please your honours to give me leave to become your humble remembrancer That when Joshua that religious wise faithfull and valiant Captaine Generall of all the Armies of Israel had conquered one thirty Kings and by Gods assistance setled the Lords people in the promised land to witnesse his care of piety as well as of peace He calleth for all Israel for their Elders their Heads their Judges and for their Officers and mindeth them of the mighty works the Lord had done for them and pressed them upon that account to stir up their affections to love the Lord their God and to feare him and serve him in truth and sincerity yea to put away their false gods and false worship from amongst them And we read likewise of faithfull Samuel that hee judged Israel all the daies of his life and hee went from yeare to yeare in Circuit to Bethel and Gilgal and Mizpeh and he judged Israel in all those places and his returne was to Ramah for there was his house and there he judged Israel and there he built an Altar unto the Lord Thus here you see there was both Justice and Piety in this holy man of God and Israel was blessed in such a Judge We cannot but acknowledge that the Lord hath done great things in these Nations and wee doe enjoy peace and plenty and many mercies which we have not prized nor improved as we ought to the best advantage for Gods glory and our own good Under his Highnesse protection and the present Government through the grace of God every man may sit quietly under his own vine and fig-tree without feare of plundering a happiness which in few yeares past we did not enjoy Yea we have good Lawes and honourable religious Judges and Magistrates to see Justice executed and right done between man and man and wee enjoy our comfortable Liberty of preaching and hearing the Gospell of Christ Yet can we not say there is no complaining nor cause of complaint in our streets The Church and people of God have met with enemies in all ages Cant. 2.2 As is the Lillie amongst the thorns so is my beloved among the daughters and as it was of old so it is in these our daies the Church and people of God especially Gods faithfull Ministers suffer persecution by two sorts of people The first prophane Ranters Atheisticall men Drunkards Gamesters and ignorant blind soules such as neglect publike Ordinances in these times of liberty and have no right principle of grace and goodness in them These make it a delight to exercise their malice against the Ministers of Christ These would rob and spoile them to the uttermost if it were in their power And this we can witness we have found true by troublesome experience Againe there is another sort of people which travell up and downe the Nation under the name of Quakers as the Jesuits and seminary Priests have used to doe secretly so these now openly disswading and seducing our people all they can from commitig to our Churches or meeting houses calling our Churches Idols Temples All our services to God in praier preaching of the word and other Christian exercises ordinary and extraordinary when wee seeke the face of God for the peace and welfare of the Nation for the prosperity of our Navie and Armies both by sea and land or our praising God for his mercies we do enjoy All these say the Quakers are but Idol-worship In a Quakers book called a Discovery of a threefold state of Antichrist by Samuel Ballivant c. and beastly services and all the faithfull and godlie Ministers of Christ without exception are thieves our maintenance by Tithes Antichristian and unlawfull Yea they call us Conjurers Antichrists witches devils liars a viperous and serpentine generation blasphemers scarlet coloured beasts Babylons Merchants whited wals painted Sepulchres and whatsoever the true Prophets of God or Christ our Saviour did justly call the false Prophets wicked priests and Scribes and Pharisees those names do these rayling and reviling Quakers give to the godly painfull learned and faithfull Ministers of Christ in the Nation disswading our people from hearing us or giving heed to any thing we preach disturbing us in our publike ministrie And what can we call this but a persecution like that of those wicked men against the good Prophet Jeremie Come say they and let us smi●e him with the tongue and let us not give heed to any of his words Jer. 18.18 And what is persecution if this be not Yea such is the malice of these Jesuited Quaking adversaries against the ministers of Christ

due as well as tribute or custome or any other service I might call in the Apostle Peter to witness the same 1 Pet. 2.13 14 17. but I refer the Reader to the Scripture it self these testifie an honor due to our superiours And for the minor or second proposition That magistrates supreme or inferiour are Gods Ordinance set and approved by God for government above others the places alledged might suffice but if you read Exod. 18.21 23. when Jethro Moses Father in law gave him that good counsell to provide out of all the people able men such as feare God men of truth hating covetousnesse and to place them over them to be Rulers of thousands of hundreds of fifties and of tens And if thou doe this thing and God command thee so then shalt thou be able to endure and this people shall goe to their place in peace And Moses did so and God himselfe doth approve of this order of government of superiours and inferiours and giveth Moses order to gather to God seventy Elders and the Lord taketh of the Spirit of government that was upon Moses and gave it to the seventy Elders as you may read Numb 11.16 17 25. Thus are Governours over the people of Gods owne ordination as superiours and so a higher honour and respect is due unto them Argument 2 Againe that outward manifestation of honour and those titles of honour which have been given by holy men in Scripture to Princes Magistrates and Judges and others according to their places and dignities which are not reproved by Gods Spirit that may lawfully bee given now to Princes to Judges Magistrates Governours and others according to their places and dignities But outward manifestation of honour and honourable titles have been given by holy men in Scripture to Princes Judges and Magistrates and others according to their place and dignities therefore they may be given now to such without sinne yea it is our duties so to doe Psal 82.16 Doth not the Scripture call them Gods as in Gods stead And to evidence both propositions Example 1 I shall give you severall examples If we read that place Numb 11.28 when the Spirit of God rested upon Eldad and Medad in the campe Joshua in his zeale speaks to Moses to forbid them and cals him Lord and Joshua said my Lord Moses forbid them he giveth him an honourable title my Lord Moses And did not wise Abigal call David Lord when he was comming with his Souldiers to destroy churlish Nabal for his ingratitude 1 Sam. 25 24 25 c. Yea divers times in that Chapter she giveth David the honourable title of Lord. And did not good David cry after King Saul and giveth him this honourable title my Lord the King 1 Sam. 24.8 And doth he not then give outward reverence to Saul to witnesse his honorable respects to Saul as to his superiour in place and power the text saith David stooped with his face to the earth and bowed himselfe This is far unlike Naylers and his quaking companions carriage even to Princes Magistrates and Judges and Justices of the peace to stand with their hats on their heads and to speak to them in an irreverent manner thou man or thee man who sittest in the place of judgement do this or that as some of them have said and done May I not say the same of Abner who as David testifieth was a Prince and a great man in Israel yet when he came to David he gave him titles of honour I will goe saith he and gather all Israel unto my Lord the King 2 Sam. 3.21 What need I tell you of that great Prophet of God Elijah doth he not call Ahab Obadiahs Lord goe tell thy Lord behold Elijah is here 1 Kin. 18.14 Though Ahab was a wicked man yet hee doth not take from him his title of honour And doth not the Spirit of God give the title of Lord to that noble man on whose hand the King leaned 2 Kin. 7.2 What need I tell you that in the New Testament the blessed Evangelist Luke in that his history of the Gospell which he did write to Theophilus he giveth him that honourable title most excellent Theophilus Luke 1.3 a title of great honour and high esteem given to Theophilus And blessed Paul calleth Festus the Governour of that Province noble Festus Acts 26.25 27. And in the same Chapter when he was before King Agrippa to answer for himselfe he doth not in a proud or blind ignorant sottish manner call Agrippa thou man or thee man as the Quakers doe but King Agrippa believest thou the Prophets I know that thou believest Thus do these Saints give titles of honour according to mens place and dignities I will name but one more and that is the blessed Evangelist St John that beloved Disciple of Christ John 19.26 in his second Epistle hee giveth that gratious woman to whom he writ her title of honour and respect verse 1. The Elder saith he to the elect Lady And againe verse 5. I beseech thee Lady Thus doth the blessed Apostle give titles of honour to whom honour belongs And these certainly are witnesses sufficient to justifie this truth against the Quakers that there may be some kinde of respect civill respect I mean though not to corrupt or flatter yet to know and owne difference of persons and to give to each that honor which is due to them in their severall places Againe as it is a duty to give honour and respect so it is lawfull for Princes Judges Justices and others to this honour when in a right and due manner it is given unto them I shall call in only one witnesse to evidence this truth besides those whom I named before to whom honor was given of men none of which godly men did reject that honor which was ascribed given unto them which had it been unlawfull to have received they would certainly have refused The witnesse is that holy man Job one that feared God and eschewed evill and what doth he testifie of himselfe you may read Job 29.7 8 c. when I went out of the gate saith he through the City when I prepare my seat in the street the young men saw me and hid themselves and the aged arose and stood up Righteous Job was an honourable and just Judge he was eies to the blind and feet to the lame he was a father to the poor and the cause which he knew not he searched it out he did break the jawes of the wicked and plucked the spoile out of his teeth therefore was Job honourable and both old and young did honor Job not in their hearts only as the Quakers would have magistrates honoured but outwardly also in giving all civill outward honour unto them according to their severall place and dignities and good reason it should be so For who more honourable profitable and necessary then good religious just and righteous Judges and Magistrates in a Common-wealth When justice is

rightly executed it exalteth a a Nation Prov. 14 34. but sinne is a shame to a people The want of magistracy and government prepareth a people for destruction Iudges 18.7 My Text the 2d time I preached before the honourable Iudges at Darby Assises in which I proved the necessity of and honour due to Magistrates at full witnesse that City Laish who perished suddenly And this is one reason given There was no Magistrate in the Land which might punish or put them to shame in any thing And this shall suffice to witnesse against all adversaries whatsoever and cleare up and resolve the Question into this conclusion That it is lawfull to call Master or Father and to give honour to every one even to the highest powers and to inferiour Magistrates to the honourable Judges and Justices and to all others according to their severall places and dignities whatsoever yet so as the honour and glory of God is to be exalted above all And thus I have ended these foure Questions disputed There were three more Questions but for these and Naylers answers and his crosse interrogatories I have given my sufficient answer before and my reason wherefore I print no more namely because they are so fully answered already by many learned divines that it were but to cast water into the sea as I have expressed in the one and twentieth page of this my Defence of the Scriptures c. to which I refer the Reader I shall only give some briefe Animadversions upon Naylers most false relation of that Dispute at Chesterfield and passe to a conclusion 1. It is an approved observation Rectum est index sui obliqui that a true and right rule will discover it selfe and that which is false and so will a true relation therefore I need doe no more here but refer the Reader to what I have before expressed yet to draw the curtaine a little that you may see Naylers picture the better I shall number up a number of his untruths in that most false relation of that Dispute Naylers untruths 1. In the very title Nayler calleth it a dispute between James Nayler and the parish-Teachers of Chesterfield This is an untruth for there was but one of the Parish-Teachers of Chesterfield who had any hand in that Dispute 2. In the next line he addeth By a challenge against him This is a second falshood for the challenge was on his side not only by John Prith boasting of Nayler but by other of his fellow Quakers 3. He saith the simple may see the bloody minds of these men This is a third untruth for there were no bloody minds nor thought of any persecution against him but of a Christian Conference 4. He saith when we speake faire war is in our hearts This is a fourth untruth we had not war in our hearts nor any desires but of peace and that peace and rruth might dwell together 5. He saith swearing and cursing and blaspheming the dreadfull name of God are the fruits of John Billingsley's Ministry This is a fifth untruth for Mr Bilingsley never preached any such doctrine nor approved of any such practice nor did know of the Bul-baiting Nayler spake against There was a poore man of Wingerworth neer Chesterfield his name as I was informed was William Frost who having heard Naylers desperate doctrine and read some of his books despaired and went and drowned himselfe Was this the fruits of thy Ministry Nayler thou wilt not confesse it was 6. Nayler cryeth out and calleth Mr Billingsley man-pleaser O thou man-pleaser saith he This is a sixt lie for it is evident Mr Billingsley is not a man-pleaser for he refuseth to baptize children except the parent will come unto him and be examined of the knowledge of his Faith And doth not give the Lords Supper but to such as he examineth and approveth by which too many are displeased which they would not if they did know what was good for their owne soules 7. For I let passe divers he saith God is risen to cut us off and it had been good we had never been borne And I hope this is a seventh untruth and a false prophecie But Nayler manifesteth his bloody mind he would cut off all the faithful Ministers of Christ if it were in his power The Lord rebuke him 8. Hee saith there was another plot against him Which is an eighth untruth there was not any plot as he pretended as God and our conscience can witnesse for us 9. For I omit againe divers abominable untruths observed by Mr Billingsley in that part of Naylers false relation Nayler againe saith he was shewed the many plots laid to have cast him in prison and to prosecute our bloody intents This is a 9th untruth from the father of lies if any shewed thee any such thing they were inventers and thou art a publisher of an abominable untruth 10. Nayler at the Disputation did most falsely accuse me that I did sweare by Mary when I did not so much as name Mary as all that could heare me can witnesse at full nor did I sweare at all as in my letter I writ to him the next day I justified sully and wished him to repent his lying accusation which letter he hath most falsely printed heaping up one lye after another in a most shamelesse manner as if the Spirit of lying and slander had taken ful possession of him which I leave off to rehearse as being unwilling to blot my paper with so many of his odious stinking untruths yet I shall mention one more most abominable Nayler saith page 10. That these Priests set themselves with all their strength to prove swearing lawfull c. which is a most hellish lie This was the truth when Nayler wrangling denied it to be lawfull to take any oath before a lawfull Magistrate upon any occasion Mr Billingsley proved it lawfull by divers places of Scripture both out of the Old and New Testament which Nayler basely perverteth and according to his custome raiseth that most wicked slander and here he fully maketh good that which is justified against him and his fellowes in that briefe Relation of the irreligion of the Northerne Quakers noted before page 20. basely to manifest themselves notorious lyars as in that Pamphlet called Sauls errand to Damascus in which there are a hundred untruths as may bee proved saith that Author by a hundred witnesses and many of them saith he will be as ready to say and unsay any thing as if lying were a vertue and that they make no conscience of raising false reports against any that oppose them And this I now finde to be most true in lying Nayler by this experience But if the adversaries of Christ called the Master of the house Belzeebub no marvell if these Quaking adversaries like the devil that grand Quaker do belye and scandalize the ministers of Christ The Lord forgive them if it be his will if they have not sinned that sinne