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A83748 The narrative and reasons which were delivered by the House of Commons to the Lords, at the last conference touching the tryals of the Lords in the Tower; Proceedings. 1679-05-26 England and Wales. Parliament. House of Commons.; England and Wales. Parliament. House of Lords. 1679 (1679) Wing E2627; ESTC R202398 5,638 4

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THE NARRATIVE AND REASONS Which were delivered by the House of Commons TO THE LORDS AT THE Last CONFERENCE touching the Tryals of the LORDS in the TOWER THE Commons have always desired that a good Correspondence may be preserved between the two Houses There is now depending between your Lordships and the Commons a matter of the greatest weight in the transactions of which your Lordships seem to apprehend some difficulty in the matters proposed by the Commons To clear this the Commons have desired this Conference and by it they hope to manifest to your Lordships That the Propositions of the House of Commons made by their Committee in relation to the Trial of the Lords in the Tower have been only such as are well warranted by the Laws of Parliament and Constitutions of the Government and in no sort intrench upon the Judicature of the Peers but are most necessary to be insisted upon that the ancient Rights of Judicature in Parliament may be maintained The Commons readily acknowledg that the Crimes charged upon the Earl of Powis Viscount Stafford Lord Petre Lord Arundel of Wardour and Lord Bellasis are of deep guilt and call for speedy Justice but withal they hold that any change in Judicature in Parliament made without consent in full Parliament to be of pernicious consequence both to his Majesty and his Subjects and conceive themselves obliged to transmit to their posterity all the rights which of his kind they have rece●ed from their Ancestors and by puting your Lordships in mind of the progress that has already been between the two Houses in relation to the propositions made by the Commons and the reasonableness of the propositions themselves they doubt not to make it appear that their aim hath been no other than to avoid such consequences and preserve that right and that there is no delay of Justice on their part and to that end do offer to your Lordships the ensuing Reasons and Narrative that the Commons in bringing the E. of Danby to Justice and in discovery of that execrable-and traiterous Conspiracy of which the five Popish Lords now stand Impeached and for which some of their wicked Accomplices have already undergone the sentence of the Law as Traitors and Murderers have laboured under many great difficulties is not unknown to your Lordships Nor is it less known to your Lordships that upon the Impeachment of the House of Commons against the E. of Danby for High Treason and other high crimes misdemeanors and offences even the common justice of sequestring him from Parliament and forthwith committing him to safe custody was then required by the Commons and denied by the House of Peers though he then sate in their House of which your Lordships have been so sensible that at a free Conference the 10th of April last your Lordships declared that it was the right of the Commons and well warranted by presidents of former ages That upon the Impeachment of the Commons a Peer so impeached ought of right to be ordered to withdraw and then to be committed and had not that Justice been denied to the Commons a great part of this Session of Parliament which hath been spent in framing and adjusting a Bill for causing the E. of Danby to appear and answer that Justice from which he was fled had been saved and had been employed for the preservation of his Majesties person and the security of the Nation and in prosecuting of the other five Lords neither had he had the opportunity of procuring for himself that illegal pardon which bears date the first of March last past and which he hath now pleaded in bar of his Impeachment nor of wasting so great a proportion of the treasure of the Kingdom as he hath done since the Commons exhibited their Articles of Impeachment against him After which time thus lost by reason of the denial of that Justice which of right belonged to the Commons upon their Impeachment the said Bill being ready for the Royal assent the said Earl then rendered himself and by your Lordships Order of the 16th of April last was committed to the Tower after which he pleaded the said pardon and being pressed did at length declare he would rely upon and abide by that plea which pardon being pleaded being illegal and void and so ought not to bar and preclude the Commons from having Justice upon the Impeachment they did thereupon with their Speaker on the fifth of May instant in the name of themselves and all the Commons of England demand Judgment against the said Earl upon their Impeachment not doubting but that your Lordships did intend in all your proceedings upon the Impeachment to follow the usual course and method of Parliament But the Commons were not a little surprized by the Message from your Lordships delivered them on the 7th of May thereby acquainting them That as well the Lords Spiritual as Temporal had ordered that the 10th of May instant should be the day for hearing the E. of Danby to make good his Plea of Pardon and that on the 13th of May the other five Lords impeached should be brought to their Trial and that your Lordships had addressed to his Majesty for naming of a Lord High Steward as well in the Case of the E. of Danby as the other five Lords Upon consideration of this said Message the Commons found that the admitting the Lords Spiritual to exercise Jurisdiction in these cases was an alteration of the Judicature in Parliament and which extended as well to the proceeding against the five Lords as against the E. of Danby and that if a Lord High Steward should be necessary upon Trial on Impeachment of the Commons the power of Judicature in Parliament upon Impeachments might be defeated by suspending or denying a Commission to constitute a Lord High Steward And that the said days of Trial appointed by your Lordships were so near to the time of your said Message that these matters and the method of proceeding upon the Trial could not be adjusted by Conference between the two Houses before the day so nominated and consequently the Commons could not then proceed to Tryal unless the zeal which they have for speedy Judgment against the Earl of Danby that so they might proceed to the Tryal of the other five Lords should induce them at this juncture both to admit the enlargement of your Lordships Jurisdiction and to fit down under these or any hardships though with the hazard of all the Commons power of Impeaching for time to come rather than the Tryal of the said five Lords should be deferred for some short time whilest these matters might be agreed on and setled For reconciling differences in these great and weighty matters and for saving that time which would necessarily have been spent in Debates and Conferences betwixt the two Houses and for expediting the Tryal without giving up the Power of Impeachment or rendring them ineffectual The Commons thought fit to propose to your
Lordships that a Committee of both Houses might be appointed for this purpose At which Committee when agreed to by your Lordships it was first proposed that the time of Tryal of the Lords in the Tower should be put off till the other Matters were adjusted and it was then agreed that the Proposition as to the time of the Tryal should be the last thing considered And the effect of this Agreement stands reported upon your Lordships Books After which the Commons communicated to your Lordships by your Committee Vote of theirs viz. that the Committee of the Commons should insist upon their former Vote of their House That the Lords Spiritual ought not to have any Vote in any proceedings against the Lords in the Tower and that when that Matter should be setled and the Method of Proceedings adjusted the Commons would then be ready to proceed upon the Tryal of the Pardon of the Earl of Danby against whom they had before demanded Judgment and afterwards to the Tryal of the other five Lords in the Tower which Vote extended as well to the Earl of Danby as the other five Lords But the Commons as yet received nothing from your Lordships towards an Answer of that Vote save that your Lordships have acquainted them that the Bishops have asked leave of the House of Peers that they might withdraw themselves from the Tryal of the said five Lords with Liberty of entring their usual protestation And though the Commons Committee have almost daily declared to your Lordships Committee that that was a necessary point of Right to be setled before the Tryal and offered to debate the same your Committee always answered That they had not any power from your Lordships either to confer upon or to give any Answer concerning that Matter And yet your Lordships without having given the Commons any satisfactory Answer to the said Vote or permitting any Conference or Debate thereupon and contrary to the said Agreement did on Thursday the 22d of May send a Message to the Commons Declaring that the Lords Spiritual as well as Temporal had ordered that the 27th of this Instant May be appointed for the Tryal of the five Lords So that the Commons cannot but apprehend that your Lordships have not only departed from what was agreed on and in effect laid aside that Committee which was constituted for preserving a good Understanding betwixt the two Houses and better dispatch of the weighty Affairs now depending in Parliament but must also needs conclude from the said Message and the Votes of your Lordships on the 14th of May That the Lords Spiritual have a Right to stay and sit in Court till the Court proceeds to the Vote of Guilty or not Guily And from the Bishops asking leave as appears by your Lordships Books two Days after your said Vote that they might withdraw themselves from the Tryal of the said Lords with Liberty of entring their usual Protestation and by their persisting still to go on and give their Votes in Proceedings upon the Impeachment That their desire of leave to withdraw at the said Tryal is only an Evasive Answer to the before-mentioned Vote of the Commons and chiefly intended as an Argument for a Right of Judicature in Proceedings upon Impeachment and as a Reserve to Judg upon the Earl of Danby's Plea of Pardon And upon these and other like Impeachments although no such Power was ever claimed by their Predecessors but is utterly denied by the Commons And the Commons are the rather induced to believe it so intended because the very asking leave to withdraw seems to imply a Right to be there and that they cannot be absent without it And because by this way they would have it in their Power whether or no for the future either in the Earl of Danby's Case or any other they will ever ask leave to be absent And the Temporal Lords a like Power of denying leave if that should once be admitted necessary The Commons therefore are obliged not to proceed to the Tryal of the Lords on the Twenty-seventh of this Instant May but to adhere to their aforesaid Vote And for their so doing besides what hath been now and formerly by them said to your Lordships do offer you these Reasons following REASONS I. BEcause your Lordships have received the Earl of Danby's Plea of Pardon with a very long and unusual protestation wherein he hath aspersed his Majesty by false suggestions as if his Majesty had commanded or countenanced the Crimes he stands charged with and particularly suppressing and discouraging the Discovery of the Plot and endeavouring to introduce an Arbitrary and Tyrannical way of Government which remains as a scandal upon Record against his Majesty tending to render his Person and Government odious to his people against which it ought to be the first and principal care of both Houses to vindicate his Majesty by doing Justice upon the said Earl II. The setting up a Pardon to be a Bar of an Impeachment defeats the whole use and effect of Impeachments and should this point be admitted or stand doubted it would totally discourage the exhibiting any for the future whereby the chief Institution for the preservation of the Government and consequently the Government it self would be destroyed And therefore the Case of the said Earl which in consequence concerns all Impeachments whatsoever ought to be determined before that of the said Five Lords which is but their particular Case And without resorting to many Authorities of greater Antiquity the Commons desire your Lordships to take notice with the same regard they do of the Declaration which that Excellent Prince King Charles the First of blessed memory made in this behalf in his Answer to the Nineteen Propositions of both Houses of Parliament wherein stating the several parts of this regulated Monarchy he says The King the House of Lords and the House of Commons have each particular Priviledges And among those which belong to the King he reckons power of Pardoning After the enumerating of which and other His Prerogatives His said Majesty adds thus Again That the Prince may not make use of this High and perpetual Power to the hurt of those for whose good he hath it and make use of the name of publick necessity for the gain of his private Favourites and Followers to the detriment of his people The House of Commons an Excellent Conserver of Liberty c. is solely intrusted with the first Propositions concerning the Levies of Moneys and the Impeaching of those who for their own ends though countenanced by any surreptitiously-gotten Command of the King have violated that Law which he is bound when he knows it to protect and to the protection of which they were bound to advise him at least not to serve him in the contrary And the Lords being trusted with a Judicatory Power are an excellent skr●en and bank between the Prince and People to assist each against any Encroachments of the other and by Just Judgments to preserve that Law which ought to be the Rule of every one of the Three c. Therefore the Power legally placed in both Houses is more than sufficient to prevent and restrain the Power of Tyranny c. III. Until the Commons of England have right done them against the Plea of Pardon they may justly apprehend that the whole Justice of the Kingdom in the Case of the Five Lords may be obstructed and defeated by Pardons of like nature IV. An Impeachment is virtually the voice of every particular subject of this Kingdom crying out against an Oppression by which every member of that Body is equally wounded and it will prove a matter of ill consequence that the universality of the people should have occasion ministred and continued to them to be apprehensive of utmost danger from the Crown from whence they of right expect protection V. The Commons exhibited Articles of Impeachment against the said Earl before any against the Five other Lords and demanded Judgment upon those Articles whereupon your Lordships having appointed the Trial of the said Earl to be before that of the other Five Lords Now your Lordships having since inverted that Order gives a great cause of doubt to the House of Commons and raises a jealousie in the hearts of all the Commons of England that if they should proceed to the Tryal of the said Five Lords in the first place not only Justice will be obstructed in the Case of those Lords but that they shall never have right done them in the matter of this Plea of Pardon which is of so fatal consequence to the whole Kingdom and a new device to frustrate publick Justice in Parliament Which Reasons and Matters being duely weighed by your Lordships the Commons doubt not but your Lordships will receive satisfaction concerning their Propositions and Proceedings and will agree that the Commons ought not nor can without deserting their Trust depart from their former Vote communicated to your Lordships That the Lords Spiritual ought not to have any Vote in any proceedings against the Lords in the Tower and when that matter shall be setled and the Methods of Proceedings adjusted the Commons shall then be ready to proceed upon the Tryal of the Earl of Danby against whom they have already demanded Judgment and afterwards to the Tryal of the other five Lords in the Tower FINIS