Selected quad for the lemma: justice_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
justice_n	court_n	king_n	plea_n	3,508	5	9.7258	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A56321	The declaration of John Pym Esquire upon the whole matter of the charge of high treason against Thomas Earle of Strafford, April 12, 1641 with An argument of law concerning the bill of attainder of high treason of the said Earle of Strafford, before a committee of both Houses of Parliament, in Westminster Hall by Mr. St. Iohn His Majesties solicitor Generall, on Thursday, April 29, 1641 / both published by order of the Commons House.	Pym, John, 1584-1643.; St. John, Oliver, 1598?-1673. Argument of law concerning the bill of attainder of high-treason of Thomas Earle of Strafford.	1641 (1641)	Wing P4262; ESTC R182279	46,678	116

here in the Kings bench that was in Trinity tearme in the three-and-thirtie yeare of Henry the eight this was before the making of that Statute Obj. To this againe will bee said that it was for treason by the Lawes and Statutes of England but this is not for anything that 's treason by the Law of England but by an Irish Statute So that the question is onely whether your Lordships in Parliament heere have cognizance of an offence made treason by an Irish Statute in the ordinary way of judicature without bill for so is the present question For the clearing of this I shall propound two things to your Lordships consideration Whether the rule for expounding the Irish Statutes and customes bee one and the same in England as in Ireland That being admitted whether the Parliaments in England have cognizance or jurisdiction of things there done in respect of the place because the Kings writ runnes not there For the first if in respect of the place the Parliament here hath cognizance there And secondly if the rules for expounding the Irish Statutes and Customes bee the same here as there this exception as I humbly conceive must fall away In England there is the common law the Statutes the acts of Parliament and customes peculiar to certaine places differing from the common law if any question arise concerning either a custome or an act of Parliament the common law of England the first the primative and the generall law that 's the rule and expositour of them and of their severall extents it is so heere it is so in Ireland the common law of England is the common law of Ireland likewise the same here and there in all the parts of it It was introduced into Ireland by King John and afterwards by King Harry the third by act of Parliament held in England as appeares by the pattent Rolls of the 30. yeare of King Henry the third the first membrana The words are Quia pro communi utilitate terrae Hiberniae unitate terrarum Regis Rex vult de communi consilio Regis provisum est quod omnes leges consuetudines quae in regno Angliae tenentur in Hibernia teneantur eadem terra eisdem legibus subjaceat per easdem regatur sicut Dominus Johannes Rex cum ultimo esset in Hibernia statuit fierimandavit Quia c. Rex vult quod omnia brevia de communi Jure quae currunt in Anglia similiter currant in Hibernia sub novo sigillo Regis mandatum est Archiepiscopis c. quod pro pace tranquillitate ejusdem terrae per casdem leges eos regi deduci permittant ea 〈◊〉 omnibus sequantur In cujus c. Teste Rege apud Woodstock decimo none die Septembris Here 's an union of both Kingdomes and that by act of Parliament and the same Lawes to bee used here as there in omnibus My Lords That nothing might bee left here for an exception that is that in treasons felonies and other capitall offences concerning life the Irish lawes are not the same as here Therefore it is enacted in a Parliament held in England in the fourteenth yeere of Edward the second it is not in print neither but is in the Parliament book That the Laws concerning life and member shall be the same in Ireland as in England And that no exception might yet remaine in a Parliament held in England the fifth yeere of Edward the third It is enacted quod una eadem Lex fiat tam Hibernicis quam Anglicis This Act is enrolled in the Patent rolls of the fifth yeere of Edward the third part 1. memb 35. The Irish therefore receiving their Lawes from hence they send their Students at Law to the Innes of Courts in England where they receive their degree and of them and of the common Lawyers of this Kingdome are the Judges made My Lords The petitions have been many from Ireland to send from hence some Judges more learned in the Lawes then those they had there It hath been frequent in cases of difficulty there to send sometimes to the Parliament here sometimes to the King by advice from the Judges here to send them resolutions of their doubts Amongst many I 'll cite your Lordships onely one because it is in a case of Treason upon an Irish Statute and therefore full to this point By a Statute there made in the fifth yeere of Edward the fourth there is provision made for such as upon suggestions are committed to prison for Treason that the party committed if he can procure 24. Compurgators shall be bailed and let out of prison Two Citizens of Dublin were by a grand Jury presented to have committed Treason They desired the benefit of this Statute that they might bee let out of prison upon tender of their Compurgators The words of the Statute of the fifth yeere of Edward the fourth in Ireland being obscure the Judges there not being satisfied what to doe sent the case over to the Queene desired the opinion of the Judges here which was done accordingly The Judges here sent over their opinion which I have out of the Booke of Justice Anderson one of the Judges consulted withall The Judges here delivered opinion upon an Irish Statute in case of Treason If it bee objected That in this case the Judges here did not judge upon the party their opinions were onely ad informandum conscientiam of the Judges in Ireland that the judgement belonged to the Judges there My Lords with submission this and the other Authorities prove that for which they were cited that is That no absurdity no failer of Justice would ensue if this great Judicatory should judge of Treason so made by an Irish Statute The common Law the rule of Judging upon an Irish Statute the pleas of the Crowne for things of life and death are the same here and there This is all that hath yet been offered For the second point That England hath no power of Judicature for things done in Ireland My Lords the constant practice of all ages proves the contrary Writs of errour in Pleas of the Crowne as well as in civill causes have in all Kings reignes beene brought here even in the inferiour Courts of Westminster Hall upon judgements given in the Courts of Ireland The practice is so frequent so well known as that I shall cite none of them to your Lordships no president will I beleeve bee produced to your Lordships that ever the case was remanded back againe into Ireland because the question rose upon an Irish Statute or custome But it will be said That writs of errour are only upon a failer of justice in Ireland and that suits cannot originally be commenced here for things done in Ireland because the Kings writ runs not in Ireland This might bee a good plea in the Kings Bench and inferiour Courts at Westminster Hall the question is whether it bee so in Parliament

parts wheresoever in subjection to the Crowne of England The last thing I shall offer to your Lordships is the case of 19. El. in my Lord Dyer 306. and Judge Cromptons book of the jurisdiction of Courts fol. 23. The opinion of both these Books is That an Irish Peer is not triable here It 's true a Scotish or French Nobleman is triable here as a common person the Law takes no notice of their Nobility because those Countries are not governed by the Lawes of England but Ireland being governed by the same Laws the Peers there are triable according to the Law of England onely per pares By the same reason the Earle of Strafford not being a Peere of Ireland is not triable by the Peers of Ireland so that if hee bee not triable here hee is triable no where My Lords In case there be a Treason and a Traitor within the Statute and that he be not triable here for it in the ordinary way of judicature if that jurisdiction failes this by way of Bill doth not Attainders of Treason in Parliament are as legall as usuall by Act of Parliament as by Judgement I have now done with the Statutes of 25. E. 3. and 18. H. 6. My Lord of Strafford hath offended against both the Kingdomes and is guilty of high Treason by the Lawes of both 5 My Lords In the fifth place I am come to the Treasons at the common Law The endevouring to subvert the fundamentall Lawes and government of the Kingdome and to introduce an arbitrary and tyrannicall government In this I shall not at all labour to prove that the endevouring by words counsels and actions to subvert the Lawes is treason at the common Law if there be any common Law treasons at all left nothing treason if this not to make a Kingdome no Kingdome take the politic and government away England's but a piece of earth wherein so many men have their commorancy abode without ranks or distinction of men without propertie in anything further then possession no Law to punish the murdering or robbing one another That of 33. H. 8. of introducing the Imperiall Law sticks not with your Lordships It was in case of an appeal to Rome these appeals in cases of marriages other causes counted Ecclesiasticall had been frequent had in most Kings reigns been tolerated some in times of Popery put a conscience upon them the Statutes had limited the penalty to a Premunire only Neither was that a totall subversion only an Appeale from the Ecclesiasticall Court here in a single cause to the Court at Rome and it treason or not that case proves not a treason may be punished as a felony a felony as a trespasse if his Majesty so please the greater includes the lesser In the case of Premunire in the Irish reports that which is there declared to be treason proceeded upon only as a Premunire The thing most considerable in this is whether the treasons at common Law be taken away by the Stat. of 25. E. 3. 1. H. 4. or 1. Q. M. or any of them My Lords To say they bee taken away by the Stat. of 25. E. 3. is to speak against both the direct words and scope of that Statute In it there 's this clause That because many other like cases of treason might fall out which are not there declared therefore it is enacted That if any such case come before the Judges they shall not proceed to judgement till the case bee declared in Parliament whether it ought to be adjudged treason or not These words and the whole scope of that Statute showes That it was not the meaning to take away any treasons that were so before but onely to regulate the jurisdiction and manner of tryall Those that were single certain Acts as Conspiring the Kings death Levying warre Counterfeiting the money or great Seal Killing a Judge these are left to the ordidinary Courts of Justice The others not depending upon single Acts but upon constructions and necessary inferences they thought it not fit to give the inferiour Courts so great a latitude here as too dangerous to the subject those they strained to the Parliament This Statute was the great security of the subject made with such wisdome as all the succeeding ages have approved it It hath often passed through the fornace but like gold hath lost little or nothing The Statute of 1. H. 4. cap. 10. is in these words Whereas in the Parliament held the 21. yeere of Richard the second divers paines of treasons were ordained insomuch that no man did know how to behave himselfe to doe say or speake It is accorded that in no time to come any treason be adjudged otherwise then it was ordained by the Statute of 25. E. 3. It hath bin said To what end is this Statute made if it takes not away the common Law treasons remaining after the Statute of 25. E. 3. There be two maine things which this Statute doth First it takes away for the future all the Treasons made by any Statute since 25. Ed. 3. to 1. Hen. 4. even to that time For in respect that by another Act in that Parliament the Statute of 21. E. 2. was repealed it will not bee denyed but that this Statute repeales more treasons then these of 21. E. 2. it repeals all Statute treasons but those in 25. E. 3. Secondly It not only takes away the Statute treasons but likewise the declared treasons in Parliament after 25. E. 3. as to the future After declaration in Parliament the inferiour Courts might judge these treasons for the declaration of a treason in Parliament after it was made was sent to the inferiour Courts that toties quoties the like case fell out they might proceed therein the subject for the future was secured against these so that this Statute was of great use By the very words of it it still referrs all treasons to the provision of 25. E. 3. it leaves that entire and upon his old bottome The Statute of 1. Q. M. cap. 1. saith That no offences made treason by any Act of Parliament shall thenceforth be taken or adjudged to bee treason but onely such as be declared and expressed to bee treason by the Statute of 25. E. 3. concerning treason or the declaration of treason and no others And further provides that no pains of death penaltie or forfeiture in any wise shall ensue for committing any treason other then such as be in the Statute of 25. E. 3. ordained and provided any Acts of Parliament or any declaration or matter to the contrary in any wise notwithstanding By the first part of this Statute onely offences made Treason by Act of Parliament are taken away the Common Law Treasons are no way touched The words and no others refer still to offences made treason by Act of Parliament they restraine not to the treasons onely particularly mentioned in the Statute of 25. E. 3. but leave that Statute entire as

pains for that which when he hath gotten is not his own Or who fight for that wherein he hath no other interest but such as is subject to the will of another The Ancient encouragement to men that were to defend their Countries was this That they were to hazard their Persons pro Aris Focis for their Religion and for their Houses But by this Arbitrary way which was practised in Ireland and counselled here no man had any certainty either of Religion or of his House or any thing else to be his own But besides this such Arbitrary courses have an ill operation upon the courage of a Nation by embasing the hearts of the people A servile condition doth for the most part beget in men a slavish temper and disposition Those that live so much under the Whip and the Pillory and such servile Engines as were frequently used by the E. of Strafford they may have the dregges of valour sullennesse stubbornnesse which may make them prone to Mutinies and discontents but those Noble and gallant affections which put men on brave Designes and Attempts for the preservation or inlargement of a Kingdome they are hardly capable of Shall it be Treason to embase the Kings Coyne though but a piece of twelve-pence or sixe-pence and must it not needs be the effect of a greater Treason to embase the spirits of his Subjects and to set a stamp and Character of servitude upon them whereby they shall be disabled to doe any thing for the service of the King or Common-wealth The fift Consideration is this That the exercise of this Arbitrary Government in times of sudden danger by the invasion of an enemy will disable his Majesty to preserve himselfe and his Subjects from that danger This is the onely pretence by which the E. of Strafford and such other mischievous Counsellors would induce his Majesty to make use of it and if it be unfit for such an occasion I know nothing that can be alledged in maintenance of it When warre threatens a Kingdome by the comming of a forrain Enemy it is no time then to discontent the people to make them weary of the present Government and more inclinable to a Change The supplies which are to come in this way will be unready uncertain there can be no assurance of them no dependence upon them either for time or proportion And if some money be gotten in such a way the Distractions Divisions Distempers which this course is apt to produce will be more prejudiciall to the publique safety then the supply can be advantagious to it and of this we have had sufficient experience the last Summer The sixt That this crime of subverting the Laws and introducing an Arbitrary and Tyrannicall Government is contrary to the Pact and Covenant betwixt the King and his people That which was spoken of before was the legall union of Allegeance and Protection this is a personall union by mutuall agreement and stipulation confirmed by oath on both sides The King and his people are obliged to one another in the nearest relations He is a Father and a childe is called in Law Pars Patris Hee is the Husband of the Common-wealth they have the same interests they are inseparable in their condition be it good or evill He is the Head they are the Body there is such an incorporation as cannot be dissolved without the destruction of both When Iustice Thorpe in Edw. the thirds time was by the Parliament condemned to death for Bribery the reason of that Judgement is given because he had broken the Kings Oath not that he had broken his own oath but that he had broken the Kings oath that solemne and great obligation which is the security of the whole Kingdome If for a Judge to take a small summe in a private cause was adjudged Capitall how much greater was this offence whereby the E. of Strafford hath broken the Kings Oath in the whole course of his Government in Ireland to the prejudice of so many of his Majesties Subjects in their Lives Liberties and Estates and to the danger of all the rest The Doctrine of the Papists Fides non est servanda cum Haereticis is an abominable Doctrine yet that other Tenet more peculiar to the Iesuites is more pernicious whereby Subjects are discharged from their Oath of Allegeance to their Prince whensoever the Pope pleaseth This may be added to make the third no lesse mischievous and destructive to humane society then either of the rest That the King is not bound by that Oath which he hath taken to observe the Laws of the Kingdome but may when he sees cause lay Taxes and burdens upon them without their consent contrary to the Laws and Liberties of the Kingdome This hath been preached and published by divers And this is that which hath been practised in Ireland by the E. of Strafford in his Government there and indeavoured to be brought into England by his Counsell here The seventh is this It is an offence that is contrary to the end of Government The end of Government was to prevent oppressions to limit and restrain the excessive power and violence of great men to open the passages of Iustice with indifferency towards all This Arbitrary power is apt to induce and incourage all kind of insolencies Another end of Government is to preserve men in their estates to secure them in their Lives and Liberties but if this Designe had taken effect and could have been setled in England as it was practised in Ireland no man would have had more certainty in his own then power would have allowed him But these two have been spoken of before there are two behind more important which have not yet been touched It is the end of Government that vertue should be cherisht vice supprest but where this Arbitrary and unlimited power is set up a way is open not onely for the security but for the advancement and incouragement of evill Such men as are aptest for the execution and maintenance of this Power are onely capable of preferment and others who will not be instruments of any unjust commands who make a conscience to doe nothing against the Laws of the Kingdome and Liberties of the Subject are not onely not passable for imployment but subject to much jealousie and danger It is the end of Government that all accidents and events all Counsels and Designes should be improved to the publique good But this Arbitrary Power is apt to dispose all to the maintenance of it self The wisdome of the Councell-Table the Authority of the Courts of Justice the industry of all the Officers of the Crown have been most carefully exercised in this the Learning of our Divines the Iurisdiction of our Bishops have been moulded and disposed to the same effect which though it were begun before the E. of Straffords Imployment yet it hath beene exceedingly furthered and advanced by him Under this colour and pretence of maintaining the Kings Power

in execution Diverse had beene attaineted of Treason for executing such Commands Heere is a Treason soe made by Acte of Parliament in Henry the sixt time In the third Chapter of this Parliament of the tenth of Henry the seventh an Act is passed for no other end then to repeale this Statute of Henry the sixt of Treason If this Statute of Henry the sixt of Treason had beene formerly repealed by the Statute of 8. Edw. 4. or then by the two and twentieth Chapter of this Parliament of 10. H. 7. by bringing in the English Statutes the Law-makers were much mistaken now to make a particular Act of Parliament to repeale it it being likewise so unreasonable an Act as it was In the eighth Chapter of this Parliament of the tenth of Henry the seaventh It 's enacted That the Statutes of Killkenny and all other Statutes made in Ireland two onely excepted whereof this of the eighteenth of Henry the sixt is none for the Common-weale shall bee enquired off and executed My Lord of Strafford saith that the bringing in of the English Statutes hath repealed this Statute of the eighteenth yeere of Henry the sixt the Acte of Parliament made the same time saith noe it saith that all the Irish Statutes excepting two whereof this is none shall still bee in force Object Oh! But however it was in 10. Hen. 7. yet it appeares by Judgement in Parliament afterwards That this Statute of the eighteenth yeere of Henry the sixt is repealed and that is by the Parliament of the eleventh yeere of Queene Elizabeth the seventh Chapter That by this Parliament it is enacted that if any man without license from the Lord Deputie lay any Souldiers upon the Kings Subjects if hee bee a Peere of the Realme hee shall forfeite one hundred pounds if under the degree of a Peere 100. markes This Statute as is alleadged declares the penalty of laying Souldiers upon the Subjects to bee onely a hundred pounds and therefore it s not Treason Answer My Lords if the offence for which this penalty of one hundered pounds is laid upon the offender bee for laying Souliders or leading them to doe any acts offensive or invasive upon the Kinges people The Argument hath some force but that the offence is not for laying Souldiers upon the true Subjects that this is not the offence intended in the Statute will appeare to your Lordshippes Ex absurdo from the wordes of it The words are That if any man shall assemble the people of the Country together to conclude of peace or warre or shall carry those people to doe any Acts offensive or invasive then hee shall forfeite one hundred pounds If concluding of warre and carrying the people to Acts invasive bee against the Kinges Subjects this is high Treason within the words of the Statute of the five and twentieth yeere of Edward the third For if any Subject shall assemble the people and conclude a warre and accordingly shall leade them to invade the Subject this is a levying of warre within the wordes of that Statute and then the Statutes of the five and twentieth yeer of Edward the third the first of Henry the fourth and the first of Queene Mary which the Earle of Strafford in his Answer desires to bee tryed by are as well repealed in this point as the Statute of the eighteenth yeere of Henrie the sixt hee might then without feare of Treason have done what hee pleased with the Irish Army for all the Statutes of levying warre by this Statute of the eleventh Yeere of Queene ELIZABETH were taken out of his way In Ireland a Subject gathers forces concludes a warre against the Kings people actually invades them blood-shedde burning of houses Depredations ensue two of those that is murder and burning of houses are Treason and there the other fellony by this construction the punishment of Treason and fellony is turned onely into a fine of one hundred pounds from losse of life lands and all his goods onely to losse of part of his goods The third absurdity a warre is concluded three severall Inrodes are made upon the Subject in the first a hundred pound Damage in the second five thousand pound Dammage in the third tenne thousand pound Dammage is done to the Subjects the penalty for the last inrode is no more then for the first only one hundred pounds This Statute by this construction tells any man how to get his living without long labour Two parts of the hundred pounds is given to the King a third part to the informer heer 's no dammage to the Subject that is robbed and destroyed My Lords the Statute will free it selfe and the makers of it from these absurdities The meaning of this Statute is That if any Captaine shall of his owne head conclude of peace or warre against the Kings Enemies or Rebels or shall upon his owne head invade them without warrant from the King of the Lord Deputie of Ireland that then hee shall forfeite a hundred pounds The offence is not for laying of Souldiers upon the Kings people but making of warre against the Irish Rebells without warrant the offence is not in the matter but in the manner for doing a thing lawfull but without mission 1. This will appeare by the generall scope of the Stat. all the parts being put together 2. By particular clauses in the Statute And 3. By the Condition of that Kingdome at the time of the making of that Statute For the first The preamble recites that in time of Declination of Justice under pretext of defending the Country and themselves divers great men arrogated to themselvs regal authority under the names of Captains that they acquired to themselves that government which belonged to the Crowne for preventing of this It s enacted that no man dwelling within the Shire grounds shall thenceforth assume or take upon himselfe the authority or name of a Captaine within those Shire grounds without Letters Pattents from the Crown nor shall under colour of his Captainesship make any demand of the people of any exaction nor as a Captaine assemble the people of the Shire grounds nor as a Captaine shall leade those people to doe any acts offensive or invasive without warrant under the great Seale of England or of the Lord Deputie upon penalty that if hee doe any thing contrary to that act then the Offendor shall forfeite a hundred pounds My Lords the Rebells had beene out the Courts of justice scarce sat for defence of the Country diverse usurped the place of Captaines concluded of warre against the Rebells invaded them without warrant invading the Rebells without authority is the crime This appeares further by particular clauses in the Statute none shall exercise any Captaineship within the Shire grounds nor assemble the men of the Shire grounds to conclude of Warre or leade them to any invasion That that had anciently beene so continued to this time that is the Irish and the English pale they within the

The Kings writ runs not within the County Palatine of Chester and Durham nor within the five Ports neither did it in Wales before the union in Henry the eighth's time after the Lawes of England were brought into Wales in King Edward the first 's time suits were not originally commenced in Westminst Hall for things done in them yet this never excluded the Parliament suits for life lands and goods within those jurisdictions are determinable in Parliament as well as in any other parts of the Realme Ireland as appeares by the Statute of the thirtieth yeer of Henry the third before mentioned is united to the Crowne of England By the Statute of the eight and twentieth yeere of Henry the sixth in Ireland it is declared in these words That Ireland is the proper Dominion of England and united to the Crowne of England which Crowne of England is of it selfe and by it selfe fully wholly and entirely endowed with all power and authority sufficient to yeeld to the subjects of the same full and plenary remedy in all debates and suits whatsoever By the Statute of the three and thirtieth yeer of Henry the eighth the first Chapter when the Kings of England first assumed the title of King of Ireland it is there enacted That Ireland still is to bee held as a Crown annexed and united to the Crown of England So that by the same reason from this that the Kings writ runs not in Ireland it might aswell bee held that the Parliament cannot originally hold plea of things done within the County Palatine of Chester Durham nor within the five Ports Wales Ireland is part of the Realme of England as appears by those Statutes aswell as any of them This is made good by constant practice In all the Parliament rolls from the first to the last there are receivers and tryers of petitions appointed for Ireland For the Irish to come so farre with their petitions for justice and the Parliament not to have cognizance when from time to time they had in the beginning of the Parliament appointed receivers and tryers of them is a thing not to bee presumed An appeale in Ireland brought by William Lord Vescye against John Fitz Thomas for treasonable words there spoken before any Judgement given in the case there was removed into the Parliament in England and there the defendant acquitted as appeares in the Parliament pleas of the two and twentieth yeere of Edward the first The suits for lands offices and goods originally begun here are many and if question grew upon matter in fact a Jury usually ordered to try it and the verdict returned into Parliament as in the case of one Balliben in the Parliament of the five and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first If doubt arose upon a matter triable by Record a writ went to the Officers in whose custody the Record remained to certifie the Record as was in the case of Robert Bagot the same Parliament of the five and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first where the writs went to the Treasurer and Barons of the Exchequer Sometimes they gave judgement here in Parliament and commanded the Judges there in Ireland to doe execution as in the great case of petition between the coparceners of the Earle Marshall in the Parliament of the three and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first where the writ was awarded to the Treasurer of Ireland My Lords The Lawes of Ireland were introduced by the Parliaments of England as appeares by three Acts of Parliament before cited It is of higher jurisdiction dare Leges then to judge by them The Parliaments of England doe binde in Ireland if Ireland bee particularly mentioned as is resolved in the Book case of the first yeere of Henry the seventh Cokes seventh Report Calvins case and by the Judges in Trinity Terme in the three and thirtieth yeere of Queene Elizabeth The Statute of the eighth yeere of Edward the fourth the first Chapter in Ireland recites that it was doubted amongst the Judges whether all the English Statutes though not naming Ireland were in force there if named no doubt From King Henry the third his time downward to the eighth yeere of Queene Elizabeth by which Statute it is made felony to carry sheepe from Ireland beyond seas in almost all these Kings reignes there be Statutes made concerning Ireland The exercising of the Legislative power there over their lives and estates is higher then of the Judiciall in question Untill the nine and twentieth yeere of Edward the third erroneous judgements given in Ireland were determinable no where but in England no not in the Parliaments of Ireland as it appeares in the close rolls in the Tower in the nine and twentieth yeere of Edward the third membr 12. Power to examine and reverse erroneous judgements in the Parliaments of Ireland is granted from hence Writs of errour lie in the Parliament hereupon erroneous judgements after that time given in the Parliaments of Ireland as appears in the Parliament rolls of the eighth yeere of Henry the sixth no. 70. in the case of the Prior of Lenthan It is true the case is not determined there for it 's the last thing that came into the Parliament and could not be determined for want of time but no exception at all is taken to the jurisdiction The Acts of Parliament made in Ireland have bin confirmed in the Parliaments of England as appears by the close rolls in the Tower in the two and fortieth yeere of Edward the third memb 20. dorso where the Parliament in Ireland for the preservation of the Countrey from the Irish who had almost destroyed it made an Act that all the land owners that were English should reside upon their lands or else they were to bee forfeited This was here confirmed In the Parliament of the fourth yeer of Henry the fifth chap. 6. Acts of Parliament in Ireland are confirmed and some priviledges of the Peeres in the Parliaments there are regulated Power to repeale Irish Statutes power to confirme them cannot be by the Parliament here if it hath not cognizance of their Parliaments unlesse it be said That the Parliament may doe it knowes not what Garnesey and Jersey are under the Kings subjection but are not parcels of the Crowne of England but of the Duchy of Normandy they are not governed by the Lawes of England as Ireland is and yet Parliaments in England have usually held plea of and determined all causes concerning lands or goods In the Parliament of 33. H. i● there be plactia de Insula Jernesey and so in the Parliament 14. E. 2. and so for Normandy and Gascoyne and alwaies as long as any part of France was in subjection to the Crown of England there were at the beginning of the Parliaments receivers and tryers of petitions for those parts appointed I beleeve your Lordships will have no cases shewed of any plea to the jurisdiction of the Parliaments of England in any things done in any