Selected quad for the lemma: justice_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
justice_n	common_a	lord_n	sir_n	7,718	5	6.9735	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A63190	The tryal of Roger Earl of Castlemaine for high treason in conspiring the death of the King, the subversion of the government, and introducing of popery and arbitrary power : before the Lord Chief Justice Scroggs &c. at the King's Bench Bar at Westminster the 23th of June 1680 where he was acquitted.	Castlemaine, Roger Palmer, Earl of, 1634-1705.; England and Wales. Court of King's Bench.	1681 (1681)	Wing T2214; ESTC R27542	45,091	76

it does not set a Man as if he had neuer Offended It cannot in reason be said a Man guilty of Perjury is as Innocent as if he had never been Perjured Att. General I say if a Man be Pardoned he is as if he were not Guilty L. C. J. If I were in my Lord Castlemain's Case I would submit it but when he hath given his Testimony my Lord shall have liberty to give in the Records against him of what Crimes he hath committed J. Jones I do confess indeed that my Lord Hales in his little Book of the Pleas of the Crown saith That a Man that hath had the benefit of his Clergy is restored to his Credit J. Raymond If that case be allowed it is a plain case for there is no Man can wage Battle but he that is Liber legalis homo Recorder A Man broke Prison and therefore he could not wage Battle he replies the King hath Pardoned me that Felony and thereupon he is admitted to wage Battle J. Jones Where there is no Judgment given in the Case and the King doth Pardon a Man that doth make a very great difference Recorder In the Case of Witherington my Lord Chief Justice did look upon the Records and afterwards said he was a good Witness and was Admitted Prisoner If you have Law by you I must consent L. C. J. Then you must consent Recorder There are several Persons who have had Pardons after Robberies and we are forced to make use of some of these Fellows L. C. J. Before Conviction Recorder No after Conviction my Lord I have known a Prisoner at the Bar when my Lords the Judges have been there to be a Witness And if the Court had made any doubt it would have been a Question before this time of day Att. General My Lord if you please Mr. Dangerfield may be Sworn If your Lordship pleases L. C. J. My Lord shall have the benefit of excepting against his credibility Then Mr. Justice Raymond went down to the Court of Common Pleas to know their Opinion J. Jones Have you any other Witness in the mean time Att. General No my Lord he is a principal Witness Sir F. W. Besides the common Practice here is a Book that says he shall wage Battle J. Jones That is when there is a Pardon before Conviction Sol. General But here my Lord he says the Reatum is taken away and then it takes away his disabilities too The difference can be nothing here before Conviction and after because before Conviction there is a disability before Conviction he is disabled from waging Battle So that that makes no difference before Conviction and other Cases after Conviction and the disability is taken away by the Pardon and he is restored to be a Freeman L. C. J. There is a disability upon Presumption tho not upon Conviction Sol. General There is the same legal impediment in the one as in the other but his Credit is left to the Breast of the Jury Recorder When a Pardon comes it takes away not only Poenam but Reatum and the Reason my Lord Hobart gives L. C. J. Nay give your Reason Recorder For Felony is Contra Coronam Dignitatem is a Fault against the King and when the King Pardons it it ceases and in another place it is said It Pardons all disabilities incident to him J. Jones That is before Conviction still L. C. J. Don't my Lord Cook tell you expresly That the taking a Pardon doth not prove any Offence You take a Pardon it ought not to be concluded that you are Guilty but the proper conclusion of a Wise Man is that you would be safe It can't be thought that every Man that hath a Pardon in England is guilty of all those Offences that are there Pardoned J. Jones There is a difference between a General Pardon and a particular Pardon when a Man doth accept of a special Pardon it must be intended that he hath some Consciousness of Guilt or else he would not take it but he that is Included in a general Pardon may be clear because all Men are Included in it unless some Persons particularly excepted and the difference is taken in that very point from accepting a General and a Special Pardon L. C. J. That the Acceptance of a General Pardon doth not barely of it self intend Men to be Guilty of the Crimes is plain and the reason is most apparent for besides that Men be safe so there be times that give a Reason why Men should have a Pardon because no man knows when he is safe Perjury so abounds that no man can say he is safe and that is a Reason why Men should be very willing to accept of Pardons Clerk of the Crown Here 's my Lord Hales's Book about the Pleas of the Crown Recorder He says when the King hath discharged and pardoned him he hath cleared the Person of the Crime and Infamy J. Jones It is so no doubt Sir F. W. May we pass upon these Authorities J. Jones Sir Francis We are not willing to go about it till it be concluded for that purpose we have desired my Brother Raymond to know the Judges Opinions of the Common Pleas. Recorder He doth expresly say it hath restored him to his Credit and in Witherington's Case he did call for the very Records Att. General If it restore him to his Credit I hope it shall not blemish him so much when he is Sworn that he shall not be believed L. C. J. We won't have any prepossession in that Case his Crimes shall be all taken notice of Is it fit to have Men Guilty of all sorts of Villanies and not to observe it J. Jones In that very Case my Lord Hobart says A Man may say of a Pardoned Man he was a Felon though he cannot say now he is a Felon and now what can be objected to this Case Recorder Things may be objected against a Person and his Credit left to the Jury but the Question now is Whether he shall be a Witness or no L. C. J. We have Men grown so Insolent they behave themselves with that vile Insolence that now they take upon them to speak against whole Societies of Men as if so be there were any thing in them that should render them better then their former Lives or Natures Humility becomes penitents and no wicked Man is supposed to be penitent that hath not that but these carry it with that Insolency as if they were not concern'd themselves when God knows the best of them discover what they do by being but parties themselves Mr. Justice Raymond return'd from the Court of Common Pleas. L. C. J. I will tell you what my Brethrens Opinions are he hath put it to them on both Accounts That he was convicted of Felony and Burnt in the Hand for it that he was outlawed for Felony and hath a General Pardon They say they are of Opinion That a General Pardon would not restore him to

a Pardon for Felonies and Out-lawries of Felony in general Mr. Darnal If the Persons and their Offences are severally and sufficiently pardoned then my Lord I will proceed unto the other Point J. Jones The whole is good D. Darnal Then my Lord I conceive notwithstanding this Pardon Mr. Dangerfield ought not to be Sworn and that no Person attainted of Felony though Pardon'd can be a Witness My Lord it hath been Adjudged in 11 Henry the 4th Quadragessimo primo that a Man Attainted of Felony as Mr. Dangerfield is though he be afterwards Pardoned cannot be Sworn of a Jury My Lord the same question hath been resolved since In Nono Jacobi It is reported in Mr. Brownlow's and Goldsborough's Reports Folio Tricessimo Quarto And my Lord Cook in Mr. Bulstrode's Second Reports 154. In Brown and Crashaw's Case is of the same Opinion He says A Man Attainted and Pardon'd cannot serve upon any Inquest and that by the same reason the Testimony of such a man for a Witness is in all Cases to be rejected L. C. J. Who says so Mr. Darnal My Lord Cook L. C. J. Men do not slight my Lord Cook Where do you say that is Mr. Darnal It is in Mr. Bulstrode's Second Reports in Brown and Crashaw's Case Fo. 154. J. Jones But you should have brought these Books hither Mr. Darnal I suppose Sir they may be had in the Hall My Lord Cook gives this Reason for it in that Case He saith That notwithstanding his Pardon he is not Probus legalis homo J. Jones That Pardon was before any Judgment it was a Pardon of Felony before any Tryal or Judgement but here is a Conviction Mr. Darnal My Lord Cook puts the case there of a Man Attainted And my Lord Induodecime Jacobi It is reported in Brownlow's Reports Folio 47. J. Raymond Which of his Reports Mr. Darnal I know but of one set out in his Name alone the other which is call'd the First Part is sett out in his and Goldsborough's Name I have Mr. Brownlow's Reports here and if your Lordship please you may see it L. C. J. What is the Page Mr. Darnal Forty Seven my Lord The case there reported is The King Pardon'd a Man Attaint for giving a false Verdict yet he shall not be at another time Empannell'd upon any Jury and the reason given there is that though the Punishment was Pardon'd yet the Guilt remain'd J. Jones That is a very short Note and not so much in the Book as you have mentioned Mr. Darnal I writ it word for word out of the Book Sir and I am sure there is so much in my Book My Lord in Mr. Justice Crooke's Elizabeth Fol. 686. in Shelborn's Case it is held that though the King may Pardon Simony yet he cannot enable a Simoniack to retain a Living L. C. J. The Act doth make him not capable Mr. Darnal I conceive Sir it is upon the same reason because the Pardon cannot take away the Guilt though it may the Punishment of the Offence J. Raymond He can't dispense with Simony he can't give a dispensation to take a Living Mr. Darnal My Lord upon these Resolutions and the reason of them I humbly submit it to your Lordship whether Mr. Dangerfield having been Attainted of Felony though he be since Pardon'd can be a Witness Att. General My Lord with your Lordships Favour this is quite contrary to the constant and general Opinion and contrary to the constant Practice For my Lord with your Lordships Favour when a Man is Pardon'd for any Crime if a Man can't say he is a Felon or he is Perjured then he can't be reckoned so to any intent or purpose whatsoever L. C. J. I told you before it is consonant to all the Reason and Law in the World that a Pardon should stop Mens Mouths from reviling speeches that signifie nothing but it is one thing to say men shall not go reviling that can have no consequent good but which tends to the Breach of the Peace and another thing to say he shall be Liber Att. General My Lord when the King gives him a Pardon it is as if he had never committed the Offence L. C. J. He may be outlawed notwithstanding the Kings Pardon and then it is not as if he had never committed the Offence J. Jones It restores him to wage battle and it makes him Liber legalis homo for if a man may wage battle he is Liber legalis homo Att. General Then my Lord if he be so he shall be a Witness For my Lord in the Point of Perjury a man that after a Conviction of Perjury had a Pardon hath been admitted several times L. C. J. Was the Exception taken Mr. Atturney Att. General Yes my Lord and he rejected before he had a Pardon J. Raymond How many Men have been Witnesses that have been convicted of Felonies after the Kings have Pardon'd them Recorder I will not adventure to say that there hath been a particular Objection made and so that the Court hath had the Debate of it but I will undertake to give your Lordship several instances of Men that have been Convicted and the Judges sitting there knew them to be so Convicted and did not take notice of it J. Raymond I speak of Witheringon particularly Recorder He was a Witness though every man did know that Witherington was Convicted I begg your Lordships leaves to speak it that the Judges themselves did know that he was Convicted and had received Sentence of Death Sir F. W. The constant Practices of the Judges is a mighty Conclusion L. C. J. What think you Mr. Atturney if a Man be Convicted of Felony and afterwards hath a General Pardon is he a Witness Att. General Yes truly my Lord it signifies the same thing my Lord as to be a Freeman again J. Jones He cannot be of a Jury if he be Attainted of Felony and the reason is because he is not Probus legalis homo and why he should not as well be of a Jury as a Witness I cannot understand Att. General There is a great deal of difference my Lord a great many Men may be admitted to be Witnesses that cannot be admitted to be Jury men J. Jones Shew me any man that is excluded from a Jury and admitted to be a Witness except in the case of Kindred Att. General An hundred L. C. J. Shew me any Man who being of a Jury was excluded and yet made a Witness Att. General A Villian was not admitted to be a Jury man but a Villain was always to be a Witness and that was a point of Infamy L. C. J. What Infamy was contain'd in being a Villain Att. General He was a Criminal he was not Liber homo L. C. J. But though he be not a Freeman he may be an honest man Recorder My Lord Hobart says A Pardon takes away the Guilt L. C. J. It takes away Guilt so far as he shall never be questioned but

as to the business of the Divorce I might look upon it as impertinent and so possibly might not mind what he said Prisoner I only offer this to you and if your Lordships command me to desist I will desist Dr. Oates I desire my Evidence to prove that I was in Town J. Raymond Pray Mr. Oates you are an Evidence you must be govern'd by Mr. Atturney L. C. J. It would be very fit Mr. Atturney to prove that Mr. Oates did come over with Hilsley in the Pacquet Boat J. Raymond Mr. Oates I remember very well gave an Account of his coming over said he I did come over with such and such persons and among the rest was Mr. Hilsley This is only to prove that he was at the Consult Att. Gen. We can prove it Records produced against Mr. Dangerfield L. C. J. Here is That he was burnt in the hand and Outlawed for Felony Pilloryed for Cheating Twice Pilloryed and see whether he was Whipt or no. Sir F. W. I know nothing of the Pillory J. Raymond Here was a Record of being burnt in the hand and a Record for putting away false Guinneys L. C. J. For that he was to stand in the Pillory Clerk of the Crown Here is one Record for another Shilling gilt L. C. J. Was that in the Pillory too Att. Gen. He was fined Fifty Pounds Clerk of the Crown Here are Three in Salisbury for Three several Guinneys and he was Adjudged to the Pillory for them all Att. Gen. It was all at one Assizes my Lord. L. C. J. My Brother Tryed him Clerk of the Crown He was Tryed before Mr. Justice Jones and to stand in the Pillory for all three L. C. J. What have you else to say Prisoner Call Mrs. Cellier and Mr. Dowdal L. C. J. What is your Name Sir Dowdal My Name is Bennet Dowdal L. C. J. What have you to say to him my Lord Prisoner Mr. Dowdal the case is this Mr. Dangerfield tells me I was angry with him at such a time for a business at my house was I not angry with him at Powis house for going to the Lords in the Tower Att. General Then he did go about it Dowdal Mrs. Cellier spake to me to speak to Mr. Dangerfield not to be troubled at your anger J. Raymond When was this Dowdal After the Jesuites died Prisoner He proves this That Mrs. Cellier spake to him to pacify Mr. Dangerfield and Dangerfield did tell him I was angry with him for going in my Name to the Lords J. Raymond He says no such thing my Lord. L. C. J. You must not ask him what Mrs. Cellier said Mrs. Cellier This day Twelve Month he and I had been employed in writing Copies of some Letters and I sent him to my Lord to know if he would go something towards the Printing them and he went from him to the Lords in the Tower In an hour and half after my Lord came to me very angry Mrs. Cellier said he I thought you would not forfeit your discretion to send such a Rascal to me if you send him to me again I will bid my Servants kick him And said I to Mr. Dangerfield you are not to note that for he is a very good Man and may be angry one time and pleased another and I would have sent him another time and said he Pray Madam don't send me thither I would rather go an hundred miles of your Errand L. C. J. Dangerfield that Discourse you had with my Lord was it before the Jesuits dyed or after Mr. Dangerfield What Discourse L. C. J. When you discours'd about killing the King Mr. Dangerfield No my Lord Two months after L. C. J. When was the time that these words were spoken Mr. Dangerfield When his Lordship was in that Passion L. C. J. When was that Mr. Dangerfield My Lord it was about the middle of August L. C. J. Was you ever in his Company after Mr. Dangerfield No my Lord I saw him once at Powis House L. C. J. Had he ever been angry before Mr. Dangerfield No not till this time my Lord. L. C. J. Here Mrs. Cellier witnesses that this day twelve month my Lord was extreamly angry insomuch that when she would have had you go on an Errand you would not Mr. Dangerfield My Lord that time I had been with my Lord Castlemain I went home to Mrs. Celliers house which I did then call my home and said I My Lord Castlemain is most violently angry with me L. C. J. When was this Mr. Dangerfield This was the latter end of August L. C. J. But she talks of this time Twelve-month Mr. Dangerfield It is no such thing my Lord. Mrs. Cellier I said Pray carry this Letter to my Lord Castlemain Pray excuse me said he I had rather go an hundred Miles than go by his door L. C. J. Whereas Dangerfield says He had this Discourse in August Mrs. Cellier says in June or July this day twelve-month particularly she gave him a Letter and he said Pray excuse me I would go an Hundred Miles for you but I would not go into my Lords Company again if I could help it Prisoner My Lord Mr. Dowdal can tell it L. C. J. Did he acknowledg to you my Lords anger in the beginning of July Dowdal It was within a week after the Jesuits died L. C. J. I don't know that Dowdal It was about the Twenty first of June L. C. J. Here are two Witnesses one saies in June or the beginning of July says Mrs. Cellier this day twelve-month he came and told me my Lord was extreamly angry with him And she would afterwards have had him carried a Letter But he said Pray excuse me I would go an hundred miles but he would not go again to him if he could help it And Dowdal says he told him about that time of my Lords anger with him Att. Gen. Hold your tongue Mr. Dangerfield J. Raymond What Jesuits Dowdal The five Jesuits Prisoner If you please my Lords I would only tell you this My Lords you see that these two Witnesses testify that I was angry with Mr. Dangerfield in June My Lords I only say this to you that when I was Examined at the Council before the King of this Particular my Lord Chancellour asked him the Particulars of it and he did confess this thing which I now prove Now my Lords I inferr this if I was so angry with him for offering to go to the Tower when he went to the Tower in my Name L. C. J. That they have said that you were very angry Dowdal Dangerfield told me so that he was angry about his going to the Tower in my Lords Name unknown to him L. C. J. Here are two Witnesses to prove that my Lord was angry with him for going to the Tower in his name and they both testify he was extreamly high and refused to carry a Letter to my Lord and yet he says in August following he had this Discourse Prisoner