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A10373 The prerogative of parlaments in England proued in a dialogue (pro & contra) betweene a councellour of state and a iustice of peace / written by the worthy (much lacked and lamented) Sir W. R. Kt. ... ; dedicated to the Kings Maiesty, and to the House of Parlament now assembled ; preserued to be now happily (in these distracted times) published ... Raleigh, Walter, Sir, 1552?-1618. 1628 (1628) STC 20649; ESTC S1667 50,139 75

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good Lord that a subsidy was then denied the reasons are delivered in Enlish histories indeed the King not long before had spent much treasure in ayding the Duke of Britaine to no purpose for hee drew ouer the King but to drawe on good conditions for himselfe as the Earle of March his father in law now did As the English Barons did invite Lewes of France not long before as in elder times all the kings and states had done and in late yeares the Leaguers of France entertayned the Spaniards and the French Protestants and Netherlands Queene Elizabeth not with any purpose to greaten those that ayde them but to purchase to themselues an advantageous peace But what say the histories to this deniall they say with a world of payments there mentioned that the King had drawne the Nobility drie And besides that whereas not long before great summes of mony were giuen and the same appointed to be kept in foure castles and not to be expended but by the aduice of the Peeres it was beleeved that the same treasure was yet vnspent COVNS Good Sir you haue said enough judge you whether it were not a dishonour to the King to be so tyed as not to expend his treasure but by other mens aduice as it were by their licence IVST Surely my Lord the King was well aduised to take the mony vpon any condition they were fooles that propounded the restraint for it doth not appeare that the King tooke any great heed to those ouerseers Kings are bound by their piety and by no other obligation In Queene Maries time when it was thought that shee was with child it was propounded in Parliament that the rule of the Realme should bee giuen to king Philip during the minority of the hoped Prince or Princesse and the king offered his assurance in great summes of money to relinquish the government at such time as the Prince or Princesse should bee of age At which motion when all else were silent in the house Lord Dueres who was none of the wisest asked who shall sue the kinges bondes which ended the dispute for what bonde is betweene a king and his vassals then the bond of the kinges faith But my good Lord the king notwithstanding the deniall at that time was with gifts from perticular parsons otherwise supplyed for proceeding of his iourney for that time into France he tooke with him 30 caskes filled with silver and coyne which was a great treasure in those dayes And lastly notwithstanding the first denyall in the Kings absence hee had Escuage graunted him to wit 20 s of euery Knights Fee COVNS What say you then to the 28● yeare of that King in which when the King demaunded reliefe the states would not consent except the same former order had bin taken for the appointing of 4 overseers for the treasure As also that the Lord chief Iustice the Lord Chancellor should be chosē by the states with some Barōs of the exchequor other officers IVS My good Lord admit the King had yeelded their demaunds then whatsoever had beene ordained by those magistrates to the dislike of the Common wealth the people had beene without remedie whereas while the King made them they had their appeale and other remedies But those demaunds vanished and in the end the King had escuage giuen him without any of their conditions It is an excellent vertue in a King to haue patience and to giue way to the fury of mens passions The whale when he is stroken by the fisherman growes into that fury that he cannot be resisted but will overthrowe all the ships and barkes that come in to his way but when he hath tumbled a while hee is drawne to the shore with a twind thred COVNS What say you then to the Parliament in the 29 th of that King IVST I say that the commons being vnable to pay the king relieues himselfe vpon the richer sort and soe it likewise happened in the 33 of that king in which hee was relieued chiefely by the Citty of London But my good Lord in the Parliament in London in the 38 yeare he had giuen him the tenth of all the revenues of the Church for three yeares and 3 markes of every knights Fee throughout the kingdome vpō his promise oath vpon the obscruing of magna Charta but in the end of the same yeare the king being thē in France he was denyed the aydes which he required What is this to the danger of a Parliament especially at this time they had reason to refuse they had giuen so great a some in the beginning of the same yeare And again because it was known that the King had but pretended warre with the king of Castile with whome he had secretly contracted an alliance and concluded a marriage betwixt his sonne Edward and the Lady Elenor. These false fires doe but freight Children and it commonly falles out that when the cause giuen is knowne to be false the necessity pretended is thought to be fained Royall dealing hath euermore Royall successe and as the King was denied in the eight thirtyeth yeare so was he denyed in the nine thirtieth yeare because the Nobility and the people saw that the King was abused by the Pope it plainly who aswell in despite to Manfred bastard son to the Emperour Fredericke the second as to cozen the King and to wast him would needes bestowe on the King the kingdome of Sicilie to recouer which the King sent all the treasure he could borrow or scrape to the Pope and withall gaue him letters of credence for to take vp what he could in Italy the King binding himselfe for the payment Now my good Lord the wisdome of Princes is seen in nothing more then in their enterprises So how vnpleasing it was to the State of England to consume the treasure of the land in the conquest of Sicily so farre of and otherwise for that the English had lost Normandy vnder their noses and so many goodly parts of France of their owne proper inheritances the reason of the deniall is as well to be considered as the denyall CONS Was not the King also denyed a subsidie in the fourty first of his raigne IVST No my Lord for although the King required mony as before for the impossible conquest of Sicily yet the house offered to giue 52000 markes which whether hee refused or accepted is vncertaine whilst the King dreamed of Sicily the Welsh inuaded spoyled the borders of England for in the Parliament of London when the King vrged the house for the prosecuting the cōquest of Sicily the Lords vtterly disliking the attempt vrged the prosecuting of the Welshmen which Parlament being proroged did again assemble at Oxford was called the madde Parlamēt which was no other thē an assembly of rebels for the Royall assent of the K. which giues life to all lawes form'd by the three estates was not a Royal assent when both
so they wil be euer the other petition was reiected the King being pleas'd notwithstanding that the great Officers should take an oath in Parliament to doe Iustice. Now for the Parliament of Westminster in the 17 th yeare of the King the King had three markes and a halfe for euery sacke of wooll transported and in his 18 th he had a 10 th of the Clergy and a 15 ● of the Laity for one yeare His Maiesty forbare after this to charge his subiects with any more payments vntill the 29 th of his reigne when there was giuen the King by Parliament 50 for euery sacke of wooll transported for sixe yeares by which grant the King receiued a thousand marks a day a greater matter then a thousand pounds in these dayes a 1000 l a day amounts to 365000 a yeare which was one of the greatest presents that euer was giuen to a King of this land For besides the cheapnes of all things in that age the Kings souldiers had but 3 d a day wages a man at armes 6 l a Knight but 2 ● In the Parliament at Westminster in the 33 ● yeare he had 26 ● 8 d for euery sacke of wooll transported in the 42 t● yeare 3 dismes 3 fifteens In his 45 l yeare he had 50000 of the Layty because the Spiritualty disputed it did not pay so much the King chang'd his Chancellour Treasurer and Privy Seale being Bishops and placed Lay men in their roome COVNS It seemes that in those dayes the kings were no longer in loue with their great Chancellors then when they deserued well of them IVST No my Lord they were not that was the reason they were well serued it was the custome then in many ages after to change the Treasurer the Chancellour euery 3 yeares withall to heare all mens complaints against thē COVNS But by this often change the saying is verified that there is no inheritance in the fauour of Kings Hee that keepeth the figge tree saith Salomon shall eat the fruite thereof for reason it is that the seruant liue by the Master IVST My Lord you say well in both but had the subiect an inheritance in the Princes favor where the Prince hath no inheritance in the subiects fidelity then were kings in more vnhappy estate then common persons For the rest Salomon meaneth not that he that keepeth the figge tree should surfet though he meant he should eate hee meant not hee should breake the branches in gathering the figs or eate the ripe leaue the rotten for the owner of the tree for what saith hee in the following chapter he saith that he that maketh haste to be rich cannot be innocent And before that he saith that the end of an inheritance hastily gotten cannot be blessed Your Lordship hath heard of few or none great with Kings that haue not vsed their power to oppresse that haue not grown insolent hatefull to the people yea insolent towards those Princes that advanced them COVNS Yet you see that Princes can change their fancies IVST Yea my Lord when favorites change their faith when they forget that how familiar socuer Kings make thēselues with their Vassals yet they are kings He that provoketh a King to anger saith Salomon sinneth against his owne soule And he further saith that pride goeth before destruction and a high minde before a fall I say therefore that in discharging those Lucifers how deare soeuer they haue beene kings make the world know that they haue more of Iudgement then of passion yea they thereby offer a satisfactory sacrifice to all their people too great benefits of subjects to their King where the minde is blowne vp with their owne deseruings and too great benefits of Kings confer'd vpon their subiects where 〈◊〉 minde is not qualified with a great deale of modesty are equally dangerous Of this later and insolenter had King Richard the second deliuered vp to Iustice but three or foure he had still held the loue of the people and thereby his life and estate COVNS Well I pray you goe on with your Parliaments IVST The life of this great King Edward drawes to an end so doe the Parliaments of this time where in 50 yeares raigne he neuer receiued any affront for in his 49 th yeare he had a disme and a fifteene granted him freely COVNS But Sir it is an olde saying that all is well that ends well Iudge you whether that in his 50 th yeare in Parliament at Westminster hee receiued not an affront when the house vrged the King to remoue discharge frō his presence the Duke of Lancaster the Lord Latimer his Chamberlaine Sir Richard Sturry and others whom the King fauoured and trusted Nay they pressed the King to thrust a certaine Lady out of the Court which at that time bare the greatest sway therein IVST I will with patience answere your Lordship to the full and first your Lordship may remember by that which I euen now said that neuer King had so many gifts as this King had from his subiects and it hath neuer grieued the subiects of England to giue to their King but when they knew there was a devouring Lady that had her share in all things that passed and the Duke of Lancaster was as scraping as shee that the Chancellour did eat vp the people as fast as either of them both It grieued the subjects to feede these Cormorants But my Lord there are two things by which the Kings of England haue beene prest to wit by their subiects and by their owne necessities The Lords in former times were farre stronger more warlike better followed liuing in their countries then now they are Your Lordship may remember in your reading that there were many Earles could bring into the field a thousand Barbed horses many a Baron 5 or 600 Barbed horses whereas now very few of them can furnish twenty fit to serue the King But to say the truth my Lord the Iustices of Peace in England haue oppos'd the iniusticers of warre in England the kings writ runs ouer all the great Scale of England with that of the next Constables will serue the turne to affront the greatest Lords in England that shall moue against the King The force therefore by which our Kings in former times were troubled is vanisht away But the necessities remaine The people therefore in these later ages are no lesse to bee pleased then the Peeres for as the later are become lesse so by reason of the trayning through England the Commons haue all the weapons in their hands COVNS And was it not so euer IVST No my good Lord for the Noblemen had in their Armories to furnish some of thē a thousand some two thousand some three thousand men whereas now there are not many that can arme fifty COVNS Can you blame them But I will only answere for my selfe betweene you me be it spoken I holde it not safe to
hands much more ought the great heart of a King to disdaine it And surely my Lord it is a greater treason though it vndercreepe the law to teare from the Crowne the ornaments thereof And it is an infallible maxime that hee that loues not his Majesties estate loues not his person COVNS How came it then that the acte was not executed IVS. Because these against vvhom it was graunted perswaded the King to the contrary As the Duke of Ireland Suffolke the chief Iustice Trisilian others yea that which vvas lawfully done by the King and the great Councell of the kingdome was by the mastery which Ireland Suffolke and Tresilian had ouer the Kings affections broken and disavowed Those that devised to relieue the King not by any private invention but by generall Councell were by a private and partiall assemblie adjudged traytors and the most honest Iudges of the land enforced to subscribe to that judgment In so much that Iudge Belknap plainely told the Duke of Ireland and the Earle of Suffolke when hee was constrained to set to his hand plainely told these Lords that he wanted but a rope that he might therewith receiue a reward for his subscription And in this Councell of Nottingham vvas hatched the ruine of those which governed the King of the Iudges by them constrained of the Lords that loued the King and sought a reformation and of the King himselfe for though the King found by all the Shreeues of the shires that the people would not fight against the Lords whom they thought to bee most faithfull vnto the King when the Citizens of London made the same answere beeing at that time able to arme 50000● men told the Major that they would never fight against the Kings friends and defenders of the Realme when the Lord Ralph Basset who was neere the K. told the King boldly that hee would not adventure to haue his head broken for the Duke of Irelands pleasure vvhen the Lord of London told the Earle of Suffolke in the Kings presence that he was not worthy to liue c. yet vvould the King in the defence of the destroyers of his estate lay ambushes to entrap the Lords when they came vpon his faith yea when all was pacified and that the King by his Proclamation had clear'd the Lords and promised to produce Ireland Suffolke the Archbishop of Yorke Tresilian Bramber to answer at the next Parliament these men confest that they durst not appeare and when Suffolke fled to Callice and the Duke of Ireland to Chester the King caused an army to be leavied in Lancashire for the safe conduct of the Duke of Ireland to his presence when as the Duke being encountered by the Lords ranne like a coward from his company fled into Holland After this vvas holden a Parliament which vvas called that vvrought vvonders In the eleuenth yeare of this King wherein the forenamed Lords the Duke of Ireland the rest were condemned and confiscate the Chiefe Iustice hang'd with many others the rest of the Iudges condemned banisht a 10 th and a 15 th given to the King COVNS But good Sir the King was first besieged in the Tower of London and the Lords came to the Parliament no man durst contradict them IVST Certainly in raising an army they committed treason and though it did appeare that they all loued the King for they did him no harme hauing him in their power yet our law doth construe all leavying of war without the kings commission and all force raised to be intended for the death destruction of the K. not attending the sequell And it is so judged vpon good reason for every vnlawfull and ill action is suppos'd to be accompanied with an ill intēt And besides those Lords vsed too great cruelty in procuring the sentence of death against diuers of the Kings servaunts who were bound to follow and obey their Master and Soveraigne Lord in that hee commaunded COVNS It is true and they were also greatly to blame to cause then so many seconds to be put to death seeing the principalls Ireland Suffolke and Yorke had escaped them And what reason had they to seeke to enforme the State by strong hand was not the Kinges estate as deere to himselfe as to them He that maketh a King know his errour manerly and priuate and giues him the best aduice hee is discharged before God and his owne conscience The Lords might haue retired themselues when they saw they could not prevaile and haue left the King to his owne wayes who had more to loose then they had IVST My Lord the taking of Armes cannot be excused in respect of the law but this might be said for the Lords that the K. being vnder yeres being wholly governed by their enimies the enimies of the kingdome because by those evill mens perswasiōs it was aduised how the Lords should haue bin murthered at a feast in London they were excusable during the kings minority to stand vpō their guards against their particular enemies But we will passe it ouer and go on with our parliaments that followed whereof that of Cambridge in the K s 12 th yeare was the next therein the K. had giuen him a 10 th a 15 th after which being 20. yeares of age rechāged saith H. Kinghton his Treasurer his Chancellor the Iustices of either bench the Clerk of the priuy seale others tooke the gouernment into his own hands Hee also tooke the Admirals place frō the Earle of Arundell in his roome hee placed the Earle of Huntingdon in the yeare following which was the 13 th yeare of the K. in the Parliament at Westminster there was giuen to the King vpon every sacke of wooll 14 s and 6 d in the pound vpon other marchandize COVNS But by your leaue the King was restrained this parliament that he might not dispose of but a third part of the money gathered IVST No my Lord by your fauour But true it is that part of this mony was by the Kings consent assigned towards the wars but yet left in the Lord Treasurers hands And my Lo it would be a great ease a great sauing to his Maiestie our Lord and Master if it pleased him to make his assignations vpon some part of his revenewes by which he might haue 1000● vpon every 10000● and saue himselfe a great deale of clamour For seeing of necessity the Nauy must be maintained that those poore men aswell Carpenters as ship keepers must be paid it were better for his Maiesty to giue an assignation to the treasurer of his nauy for the receiuing of so much as is called ordinary then to discontent those poore men who being made desperate beggers may perchance be corrupted by them that lye in waite to destroy the K s estate And if his Maiesty did the like in all other payments especially where the necessity of such as are to receiue cannot possible giues daies
maintaine so great an Armory or Stable it might cause me or any other Nobleman to be suspected as the preparing of some Innovation IVST Why so my Lord rather to bee commended as preparing against all danger of Innovation COVNS It should be so but call your observation to accompt you shall find it as I say for indeed such a jelousie hath been held euer since the time of the Ciuill wars ouer the Military greatnes of our Nobles as made them haue litle will to bend their studies that wayes wherefore let euery man prouide according as hee is rated in the Muster booke you vnderstand me IVST Very well my Lord as what might be replyed in the preceiuing so much I haue euer to deale plainly and freely with your Lordship more fear'd at home popular violence then all the forreine that can be made for it can neuer bee in the power of any forreine Prince without a Papisticall party either to disorder or endanger his Majesties Estate COVNS By this it seemes it is no lesse dangerous for a king to leaue the power in the people then in the Nobility IVST My good Lord the wisdome of our owne age is the foolishnes of another the time present ought not to bee prefer'd to the Policy that was but the policy that was to the time present So that the power of the Nobility being now withered and the power of the people in the flowre the care to content them would not be neglected the way to win them often practized or at least to defend them from oppression The motiue of all dangers that euer this Monarchy hath vndergone should bee carefully heeded for this Maxime hath no posterne Potestas humana radicatur in voluntatibus hominum And now my Lord for King Edward it is true though he were not subject to force yet was hee subiect to necessity which because it was violent hee gaue way vnto it Potestas saith Pythagoras iuxia necessitatem habitat And it is true that at the request of the house he discharged put from him those before named which done he had the greatest gift but one that euer he receiued in all his dayes to wit from euery person man woman aboue the age of fourteen yeares 4 ● of old mony which made many Millions of Groats worth 6 ● of our mony This he had in generall besides he had of euery beneficed Priest 12 d. And of the Nobility Gentry I know not how much for it is not set down Now my good Lord what lost the King by satisfying the desires of the Parliament house for assoone as hee had the money in purse hee recalled the Lords and restored them who durst call the King to accompt when the Assembly were dissolued Where the word of a King is there is power saith Ecclesiasticus who shall say vnto him what doest thou saith the same Author for euery purpose there is a time judgment the King gaue way to the time his judgmēt persweded him to yeeld to necessity Consularius nemo melior est quàm tempus COVNS But yet you see the king was forc'd to yeeld to their demaunds IVST Doth your Lordship remember the saying of Monsieur de Lange that he that hath the profit of the warre hath also the honour of the warre whether it be by battaile or retreate the King you see had the profit of the Parliament and therefore the honour also what other end had the king then to supply his wants A wise man hath euermore respect vnto his ends And the king also knew that it was the loue that the people bare him that they vrged the remouing of those Lords there was no man among them that sought himselfe in that desire but they all sought the King as by the successe it appeared My good Lord hath it not been ordinary in England and in France to yeeld to the demaunds of rebels did not King Richard the second graunt pardon to the outragious roagues murtherers that follovved Iack Straw Wat Tyler after they had murthered his Chancellor his Treasurer Chiefe Iustice and others brake open his Exchequer and committed all manner of outrages and villanies and why did he doe it but to avoid a greater danger I say the Kings haue then yeelded to those that hated them and their estates to wit to pernicious rebels And yet without dishonour shall it be called dishonour for the King to yeeld to honest desires of his subjects No my Lord those that tell the King those tales feare their own dishonour and not the Kings for the honour of the King is supreame and being guarded by Iustice and piety it cannot receiue neither wound nor stayne COVNS But Sir what cause haue any about our King to feare a Parliament IVST The same cause that the Earle of Suffolke had in Richard the seconds time and the Treasurer Fartham with others for these great Officers being generally hated for abusing both the King and the subiect at the request of the States were discharged and others put in their roomes COVNS And was not this a dishonour to the king IVST Certainly no for King Richard knew that his Grandfather had done the like and though the king was in his heart vtterly against it yet had hee the profite of this exchange for Suffolke was fined at 20000 markes 1000 ● lands COVNS Well Sir we will speake of those that feare the Parliament some other time but I pray you goe on with that that happened in the troublesome raigne of Richard the second who succeeded the Grandfather beeing dead IVST That king my good Lord was one of the most vnfortunate Princes that euer England had hee was cruell extreame prodigall and wholly carryed away with his two Minions Suffolk the duke of Ireland by whose ill advice others he was in danger to haue lost his estate which in the end being led by men of the like temper he miserably lost But for his subsedies hee had giuen him in his first yeare being vnder age two tenths and two fifteenes In which Parliament Alice Peirce who was remoued in king Edwards time with Lancaster Latimer and Sturry were confiscate banished In his second yeare at the Parliament at Glocester the King had a marke vpon euery sacke of wooll and 6 d the pound vpon wards In his third yeare at the Parliament at Winchester the Commons were spared and a subsedy giuen by the better sort the Dukes gaue 20 markes and Earles 6 markes Bishoppes and Abbots with myters fixe markes euery marke 3● 4 d euery Knight Iustice Esquier Shrieue Parson Vicar Chaplaine paid proportionably according to their estates COVNS This me thinkes was no great matter IVST It is true my Lord but a little mony went far in those dayes I my selfe once moued it in Parliament in the time of Queene Elizabeth who desired much to spare the Common people and I did it by her Commaundement but when we cast vp