I Do appoint Richard Sare to Print the two Tryals of Titus Otes for Perjury And Order That no other Person do presume to Print the same Jeffreys THE TRYALS Convictions Sentence OF TITUS OTES UPON TWO INDICTMENTS For Willful Malicious and Corrupt PERJURY AT THE KINGS-BENCH-BARR at Westminster Before the Right Honourable George Lord Jeffreys Baron of Wem Lord Chief Justice of His Majesties Court of Kings-Bench and the rest of the Judges of that Court. Upon Friday the 8th and Saturday the 9th days of May Anno Domini 1685. And in the First Year of the Reign of our Soveraign Lord King JAMES the II. c. LONDON Printed for R. Sare at Grays-Inn-Gate in Holborn and are to be sold by Randal Taylor 1685. Die veneris oct Maii 1685. in Banco Regis De Term. Pasch Anni Regni Regis Jacobi primi Dominus Rex versus Titus Oates THis day being apointed for the Tryal of one of the Causes between our Soveraign Lord the King and Titus Oates for Perjury the same began between eight and nine in the Morning and proceeded in the manner following First Proclamation was made for Silence then the Defendant was called who appeared in Person being brought up by Rule from the King's Bench Prison where we was in Custody and was advised to look to his Challenges to the Jury that were Impanel'd to try the Cause Oates My Lord I am to manage my own Defence and have a great many Papers and things which I have brought in order to it I pray I may have some Conveniency for the Managing my own Tryal Lord C. Justice Ay Ay let him sit down there within the Bar and let him have Conveniency for his Papers Clerk Crown Cryer swear Sir William Dodson Oates My Lord I except against Sir William Dodson Mr. Att. Gen. What is the Cause of Exception Mr. Oats L. C. J. Why do you challenge him Oates My Lord I humbly conceive in these cases of Criminal Matters the Defendant has Liberty of excepting against any of the Jurors without shewing Cause provided there be a full Jury besides L. C. J. No no that is not so you are mistaken in that Mr. Oates Oates My Lord I am advised so I do not understand the Law my self L. C. J. But we tell you then it cannot be allow'd if Mr. Attorney will consent to wave him well and good Mr. Att. Gen. No my Lord I know no reason for it I cannot consent to any such thing L. C. J. Then if you will not have him sworn you must shew your Cause presently Oates My Lord I cannot assign any Cause L. C. J. Then he must be sworn Cl. Cr. Swear him Cryer Sir William Dodson take the Book you shall well and truly try this Issue between our Soveraign Lord the King and Titus Oates and a true Verdict give according to the Evidence so help you God Cl. Cr. Swear Sir Edmund Wiseman which was done Richard Aley Esq who was sworn Benjamin Scutt Oates My Lord I challenge him L. C. J. For what Cause Oates My Lord he was one of the Grand Jury that found the Bill L. C. J. Was he so that is an exception indeed what say you Mr. Attorney Att. Gen. My Lord I believe he was upon one of the Indictments but I think it was not this L. C. J. But if he were in either of them he cannot be so impartial Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord we will not stand upon it we 'll wave him Cl. Cl. Thomas Fowlis Oates Pray let me see that Gentleman who was shown to him Are you not a Goldsmith in Fleetstreet between the two Temples Fowlis Yes I am Oates Very well Sir I do not except against you only I desire to know whether it were you or not Cl. Cr. Swear him which was done Thomas Blackmore Sworn Peter Pickering Sworn Robert Beddingfield Sworn Thomas Rawlinson Sworn Roger Reeves Sworn Edward Kempe sworn Oates My Lord I challenge him L. C. J. You speak too late he is sworn already Oates My Lord they are so quick I could not speak but he was one of the Grand Jury too L. C. J. We cannot help it now Mr. Att. Gen. I did know that he was so but to shew that we mean nothing but fair we are content to wave him L. C. J. You do very well Mr. Attorney General let him be withdrawn Cl. Cr. Mr. Kempe you may take your case swear Ambrose Isted which was done Henry Collier Sworn Richard Howard Sworn Cl. Cr. Cryer count these Cryer One c. Sir William Dodson Cl. Cr. Richard Howard Cryer Twelve good men and true hearken to the Record and stand together and hear the Evidence The Names of the Twelve sworn were these Jury Sir William Dodson Sir Edmund Wiseman Richard Aley Thomas Fowlis Thomas Blackmore Peter Pickering Robert Beddingfield Thomas Rawlinson Roger Reeves Ambrose Isted Henry Collier and Richard Howard Oates Before the Councel opens the Cause I desire to move one thing to your Lordship L. C. J. What is it you would have Oates My Lord I have three Witnesses that are very material one's to my Defence who are now Prisoners in the King's Bench for whom I moved yesterday that I might have a Rule of Court to bring them up to day but it was objected that they were in Execution and so not to be brought I humbly move your Lordship now that I may have a Habeas Corpus for them to bring them immediately hither L. C. J. We cannot do it Oates Pray Good my Lord they are very material Witnesses for me and I mov'd yesterday for them L. C. J. You did so but we told your Councel then and so we tell you now we cannot do it by Law it will be an escape Oates My Lord I shall want their Testimony L. C. J. Truely we cannot help it the Law will not allow it and you must be satisfied Cl. Cr. Gentlemen you that are sworn of this Jury hearken to the Record by Virtue of an Inquisition taken at Justice Hall in the Old Bayly in the Parish of St. Sepulcher in the Ward of Faringdon without London upon Wednesday the 10th of December in the 36th of the Raign of our late Soveraign Lord Charles the II. by the grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. Before Sir James Smith Knight Mayor of the City of London Sir George Jefferies Knight and Baronet Lord Chief Justice of this Honourable Court Sir Thomas Jones Knight Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas William Montague Lord Chief Baron of the Exchequer Sir James Edwards Knight Sir John More Knight Aldermen of the said City Sir Thomas Jenner Knight one of his Majesties Sergeants at Law and Recorder of the same City and others their Companions Justices of Oyer and Terminer by the Oaths of twelve Jurors Honest and Lawful Men of the City of London aforesaid who then and there being sworn and charged to enquire for
that he forswore himself Mr. Att. Gen. Pray my Lord give me leave I must pursue my Masters Interest Mr. Soll. Gen. My Lord it was ever Testimony allow'd to be given to detect a Subornation L. C. J. I am sure 't is not fit to be allow'd at any time If he did forswear himself in a Court of Record in my opinion he is not to be receiv'd as a Witness any more Mr. Sol. Gen. We do only make this use of him to prove that Oates did suborn him L. C. J. Pray call some other Witnesses if you have them to contradict him but do not offer to bring a man to swear that he did forswear himself before Mr. Soll. Gen. My Lord we give Evidence here of a mans being produc'd by Oates to swear he was here in May 78. and he did make such an Oath now I hope with Submission my Lord it is Evidence to contradict that Oath if we can prove that he has confessed he was forsworn and mistaken in his Oath such Evidence perhaps will be of little value yet Evidence it is L. C. J. Make it what you will Mr. Sollicitor I think it is of no value at all nor to be admitted for the man to come and swear it himself prove what you can by others Mr. Soll. Gen. Surely my Lord this Confession of his to others is of less value than when we bring the Man himself to confess his fault that Man himself coming and owning the thing that he was mistaken with great sorrow for it sure is a good Evidence L. C. Justice Argue the matter as long as you will Mr. Sollicitor you will never convince me But that he that has once forsworn himself ought not to be a witness after that in any Case whatsoever If any man tell me otherwise till Dooms-day I cannot be convinc'd of it Mr. Soll. Gen. I go but to ask him this Question Whether or no what he swore were true L. C. Justice Mr. Sollicitor we are all of another Opinion that it is not Evidence fit to be given Mr. Soll. Gen. My Lord I must submit it to you L. C. Justice I tell you Mr. Sollicitor if you should call him to know what it was he swore and it does appear by any Evidence or by his own Confession that it was false you ought not to believe what he says even in that matter And I think truly for examples sake it ought not by any means to be admitted Mr. Sollicitor My Lord I must submit it to you but then I humbly conceive it will be in very many Cases impossible to detect a Perjury or Subornation if the Party suborn'd cannot be admitted to be a witness L. C. Justice What good will the admitting him to be a witness do for either what he swore then or what he swears now is false and if he once swears false Can you say he is to be believed Mr. North. My Lord If a man come and swear L. C. Justice Look ye Sir you have our Opinion it has been always the Practice heretofore That when the Court have delivered their Opinion the Council should sit down and not dispute it any further Mr. Att. Gen. Then we will go about the Business of Clay and for that we will call Lawrence Davenport L. C. Justice 'T is certainly against the Law to admit a man that has once forsworn himself to be a witness again in any Cause Mr. Att Gen. Swear Lawrence Davenport which was done 'Pray' give my Lord and the Jury an account how Clay came to be a witness and by whom he was wrought upon to be so Davenport May it please you my Lords and Gentlemen of the Jury Mr. Oates came to the Prison I being then a Prisoner at that time in the Gate-house at Westminster my self and having no other Employment I had the government and care of some of the Prisoners for a livelihood being in custody and at that time Mr. Oates as I said when old Clay was in Prison did come there to visit this Clay at several times and coming there to visit this Clay up stairs he went to his Chamber and desired to speak with him and I did desire your Worship Mr. Oates that you would go in to him and you did go into his Chamber and there these words you did speak to him before the Trial of the five Jesuits That if he did not swear what you put to him he should be prosecuted as a Priest which you did believe he would dye for L. C. Justice What is this man's name Mr. Att. Gen. Lawrence Davenport L. C. Justice Did you hear him say so Davenport Yes my Lord upon my Oath I did hear him say so and Sir William Waller was with him and then he replied and said with a Proviso That you would give him his Gold and Silver that was taken from him being then a Prisoner under My keeping in the Gate-house and wanting his money if you would do that he said he had been a Rogue before and he could not say what he might do L. C. Justice Now make it appear that this Clay was sworn at the Trial. Davenport My Lord afterwards I was Keeper to him under the other Keeper and he had a Keeper to wait on him to Newgate Sessions at the Old Baily wherefore this Gentleman that is standing there Mr. Oates comes to us says he Do not you trouble your self about this Prisoner let him alone with me I 'll see him at home again and then the Jesuits there did take their Trials how it was I cannot tell for we could not come into the Court afterwards they went to the Fountain Tavern by Newgate to Dinner and Mr. Oates and he went to Dinner together we were below in the house waiting there till it was Night and still thinking that he should come down again but away went he home and left us in the lurch but indeed he did come home to the Prison very honestly and civilly because he was civilly guarded Mr. Att. Gen. Now my Lord we 'll give you an account That the next morning after this Discourse betwixt Oates and Clay at the Gate-house this witness told it to another that was a Prisoner there then too Oates My Lord I would ask this man a Question Whether he had the sole keeping of Clay without any other Keeper with him Davenport There was no Keeper in the house but my self where he lay which was in Margaret's Lane not in the Prison but in the House Oates 'Pray' ask this Gentleman why he did not come in and testifie this Discourse he speaks of when Clay was a witness Davenport I was not by when he was sworn Oates Did he not know he was a witness L. C. Justice No he says he did not go into the Court with you he was not suffered to go in Davenport My Lord I am a poor Trandesman and know nothing what belongs to the Law Mr. Att. Gen. Come 'pray' swear this man Mr. which
determine my own Right now in this point and I insist upon it and demand it L. C. Justice It may be presently you 'll tell us we have no right to judge of it Oates Yes my Lord you have but I hope I have right to urge it L. C. Justice Urge what you will that is to the purpose but then you must keep to the matter in hand and not make such idle Excursions as these are Oates I will keep to the matter my Lord if you will hear me L. C. Justice So you shall we 'll make you keep to the matter or we will not hear you at all Do not think your Impudence shall storm us out of our Senses Oates My Lord I do insist upon it that these mens Religion is an exception to their Testimony and a Papist is not a good witness in a Cause of Religion and I desire I may have leave to argue that as a Point of Law in my own defence L. C. Justice No Sir it is no point of Law at all Oates Then I appeal to all the hearers whether I have Justice done me L. C. Justice What 's that why you Impudent Fellow do you know where you are you are in a Court of Justice and must appeal to none but the Court and the Jury Oates I do appeal to the hearers L. C. Justice Take him away there if you will not behave your self as you ought I can assure you the Court will do what they ought to do and stop your mouth Oates What you please my Lord I must make my own defence as well as I can L. C. Justice You are here in Judgment before us and are to appeal to us we 'll suffer none of your Common-wealth appeals to your Mobile keep within the Bounds of Decency and say what you can for your self Oates My Lord this I move to the Court as one of my Objections to this Evidence given against me That their Religion makes them no good witnesses especially in this Cause L. C. Justice I tell you that is nothing to the purpose what their Religion is Mr. Just. Holloway Mr. Oates we come not here to dispute Points of Religion we come to try a bare matter of Fact whether you are perjured or no. L. C. Justice I tell you a Papist is a good witness without a Legal Exception Mr. Just Withens 'Pray' Mr. Oates is not a Papist as good a witness as a Dissenter Oates My Lord Cook would not admit a Papist to be a good witness in any Cause Mr. Just Withens How not in a Cause of Meum and Tuum Oates No my Lord not in any Cause between Party and Party L. C. Justice Where is that Opinion Oates I 'll cite you the Case if you please my Lord. L. C. Justice 'Pray' let us hear it Oates It is in Bulstrod's Reports the Second Part 155. A Popish Recusant is not to be admitted a witness between Party and Party Mr. Just Withens May a Presbyterian be a good witness Mr. Oates Mr. Just Holloway Or would Mr. Colledge have been a good Witness Mr. Oates Oates I tell you this was my Lord Cook 's practice L. C. Justice You have our Opinion and be satisfied with it That Book says it was my Lord Cook 's practice and we think if that was his practice his practice was against Law Oates Then another thing I object to their Testimony is their Education L. C. Justice That 's no Objection at all neither Oates My Lord they are bred up in a Seminary against Law and for which their Friends are to be punished L. C. Justice So is every man living that 's bred a Dissenter bred up against Law Oates My Lord I have not offered any Dissenter as Evidence for me L. C. Justice No they are all no doubt of it very good People Good-wife Mayo and her Companions excellent Protestants without all question Oates My Lord I humbly offer a Statute to your Lordship And that is Law sure L. C. Justice Yes a Statute is Law What Statute is it Oates It is 27º of Eliz. Cap. 2. The Law says there L. C. Justice Come we will see what the Law says Read the Statute he speaks of Cl. Crown It is Intituled an Act against Jesuits Priests and other such like disobedient Persons Oates My Lord I desire That the Preamble of the Act may be read Cl. Crown Whereas divers Fersons called and professed Jesains Seminary Priests and other Priests which have been and from time to time are made in the Parts beyond the Seas by or according to the Order and Rites of the Romish Church have of late come and have been sent and daily do come and are sent into this Realm of England and others the Queen's Majestie 's Dominions L. C. Justice This is nothing to this Business before us at all Mr. Justice Withens Does this Statute say they are no good witnesses Oates They own themselves to be Educated at St. Omers and that is against this Law expresly L. C. Justice What then Do they own themselves to be in Orders Jesuits and Priests Then you might say somewhat to them upon this Law but do not spend our time in such Trifles Oates I do not spend your time in Trifles my Lord. It is my Defence L. C. Justice Mr Attorney do you go on for we will not sit here to spend our time for nothing Oates 'Pray' my Lord let me but shew this I only propose one Statute more to your Lordship's Consideration L. C. Justice You may propose to read the whole Statute Book Oates 'Pray' my Lord hear me out L. C. Justice Speak then to the Business in hand Oates It is the Statute made in 3d. King Charles the First Chap. 2. L. C. Justice It is nothing to the purpose Oates I am advised 't is very material for me L. C. Justice I tell you it is not and we 'll not let your importunity prevail upon us to spend our time for nothing There has been a great deal of time spent to no purpose already Oates Then if you will over rule it my Lord L. C. Justice We do over-rule it For it signifies nothing to this purpose Oates 'Pray' my Lord be pleased to give me leave to offer their Judgments in Cases of Conscience whereby they own they have Dispensations to swear Lies for the promoting of the Cause L. C. Justice That is no Evidence neither Oates This is very hard in such a Case as this L. C. Justice No It is not hard that what is no Evidence in Law should not be suffered to be given in Evidence Oates It is Evidence against the poor Dissenters my Lord. L. C. Justice Indeed Sir It is not Evidence against any one body in the World if you will take my word for it if you will not I cannot tell how to help it Oates Then I offer you one thing more my Lord and that is what was said and done in the Case of the Earl of Shaftsbury when
further present that the said Thomas Pickering and John Grove upon the agreement aforesaid then and there falsly subtilely advisedly Maliciously devilishy and Trayterously did take upon them and did promise to the said Thomas White alias Whitebread William Ireland John Fenwick and other false Traytors of our late said Soveraign Lord the King to the Jurors aforesaid unknown then and there falsly subtilely advisedly maliciously devilishy and Trayterously did promise that they the said Thomas Pickering and John Grove would kill and murder our said late Soveraign Lord the King and they the said Thomas White alias Whitebread William Ireland John Fenwick Thomas Pickering John Grove and other false Traytors of oursaid late Soveraign Lord the King afterwards to wit the said four and twentieth day of April in the thirtieth year aforesaid at the said aforesaid Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Middlesex aforesaid subtilely advisedly maliciously devilishly and Trayterously did severally every one of them give their Faith each to the other and upon the Sacrament then and there trayterously did swear and promise to conceal and not to divulge their said most wicked Treasons and Trayterous Compassings Consultations and Purposes so between them had him our said late Soveraign Lord the King Trayterously to kill and murder and the Romish Religion in this Kingdom of England to be used to introduce and the true Reformed Religion in this Kingdom of England rightly and by the Laws of the same Kingdom established to alter and change and that the said aforesaid Thomas Pickering and John Grove in Execution of their Traiterous Agreement aforesaid afterwards to wit the same Four and Twentieth day of April in the Thirtieth year aforesaid and divers other days and times after at the said aforesaid Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County aforesaid Muskets Pistols Swords Daggers and other offensive and cruel Weapons him the our said late Soveraign Lord the King to kill and murder falsly subtilely advisedly maliciously and Trayterously did prepare and obtain for themselves had and kept and that they the aforesaid Thomas Pickering and John Grove afterwards to wit the said Four and Twentieth Day of April in the Thirtieth year aforesaid and divers days and times afterwards with Force and Arms c. at the Parish aforesaid in the County aforesaid and in other places within the County of Middlesex aforesaid falsly subtilely advisedly maliciously devilishly and Trayterously did lie in wait and indeavour our said late Soveraign Lord the King to murder and that the said Thomas White alias Whitebread William Ireland John Fenwick and other false Traitors to the Jurors unknown afterwards to wit the same Four and Twentieth day of April in the Thirtieth year aforesaid at the Parish aforesaid in the County of Middlesex aforesaid falsly subtilely advisedly maliciously devilishly and Trayterously did prepare perswade excite abett comfort and counsel Four other Persons Men to the Jurors unknown and Subjects of our said late Soveraign Lord the King him our said late Soveraign Lord the King Trayterously to kill and murder against the Duty of their Allegiance against the Peace of our said late Soveraign Lord the King his Crown and Dignity and against the Form of the Statute in that Case made and provided and thereupon it was so far proceeded that afterwards to wit at the Court of Goal-delivery of our Soveraign Lord the King of Newgate at Justice Hall in the Old Baily in the Suburbs of the City of London in the Parish of St. Sepulchre in the Ward of Farington without London aforesaid the seventeenth day of December in the Thirtieth year aforesaid before the Justices of our said Lord the King then and there being present held by adjourment for the County of Middlesex aforesaid before whom the Indictment aforesaid was then depending came the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove under the Custody of Sir Richard How Knight Sir John Chapman Knight Sheriffs of the County of Middlesex aforesaid into whose Custody for the Cause aforesaid before that were committed being there brought to the Bar in their proper Persons and immediately being severally spoken unto concerning the Premisses above charged upon them how they would acquit themselves thereof the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove did say that they were not thereof guilty and for the same for good and bad they severally put themselves upon the Country and by a certain Jury of the Country on that behalf in due manner Impaneld sworn and charged then and there in the same Court before the Justices of Goal delivery aforesaid were tryed and that upon that Tryal between our said late Soveraign Lord the King and the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove at London aforesaid to wit at Justice Hall in the Old Baily aforesaid in the Parish and Ward aforesaid the Defendant Titus Oates by the name of Titus Oates late of the Parish of St. Sepulchre aforesaid in the Ward aforesaid Clerk was a Witness produced on the Behalf of our late Soveraign Lord the King upon the Tryal aforesaid and before the aforesaid Justices of Goal-delivery in the Court aforesaid then and there held upon the Holy Evangelists of God to speak and testifie the Truth the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth of and in the Premisses between our said late Soveraign Lord the King and the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove put in Issue was duely sworn and that he the aforesaid Titus Oates then and there in the Court of Goal delivery aforesaid upon his Oath aforesaid upon the Indictment aforesaid at the Parish and Ward aforesaid by his own proper act and consent of his most wicked Mind falsly voluntarily and corruptly did say depose swear and to the Jurors of the Jury aforesaid then and there sworn and Impanel'd to try the Issue aforesaid between our said late Soveraign Lord the King and the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove did give in Evidence that there was a Trayterous Consult of Jesuits that were assembled at a certain Tavern called the White Horse Tavern in the Strand in the White Horse-Tavern in the Strand in the County of Midd. aforesaid meaning upon the Four and Twentieth day of April in the Year of our Lord 1678. At which Consult Whitebread Fenwick Ireland the aforesaid Thomas White alias Whitebread John Fenwick and William Ireland meaning and he the said Titus Oates were present and that the Jesuites aforesaid did separate themselves into several lesser Companies and that the Jesuites aforesaid came to a resolution to murder the said our late Lord the King and that he the said Titus Oates did carry the Resolution aforesaid from Chamber to Chamber and did see that Resolution signed by them the aforesaid Jesuites meaning whereas in truth and in deed the aforesaid Titus Oates was not present at any Consult of the Jesuites at the White Horse-Tavern aforesaid in the Strand in
Lordship be pleased to take notice of the drift of the Evidence how they are consistent one with another These Gentlemen that have now been sworn to prove that I was not at this Consult do attempt to prove that I was at St. Omers Now to answer this I shall not go about to prove that I was not then at St. Omers but that I was actually then and about that time here in London and then all that proof that Mr. Attorney-General has brought must be laid aside L. C. J. You say well prove that Oates Now my Lord to introduce and prepare the Jury for this it will be necessary I humbly conceive to read the Records of the Conviction of Whitebread and Ireland L. C. J. Well go your own way We are not to direct you I only tell you where the question lies Oates Sir Samuel Astrey pray be pleased to read them in English that the Jury may understand them First read Ireland's Record which was done Oates Now read Whitebread's Record Read but the Attainder I will not trouble the Court with the whole Record Cl. of the Crown Thomas White alias Whitebread William Harcourt alias Harrison John Fenwick John Gaven and Anthony Turner were found guilty of High-Treason and attainted and Execution awarded against them upon that Attainder Oates Does not the Record say The Jurors say upon their Oaths they are guilty L. C. J. Yes I 'll warrant you Cl. of the Crown It is Dicunt super sacramentum suum Oates Very well These my Lord I do produce as my first Evidence to prove that there was a Trayterous Consult held upon the 24th of April 78 at the White-horse-Tavern in the Strand it having been believed and affirmed by two Verdicts Now give me leave to offer but this to the Court That at the Trial of Mr. Ireland I gave so full and ample a Testimony against Whitebread and Fenwick accompanied with all the circumstances of Time and Place that my Lord Chief Justice Scroggs said The Evidence might be sufficient to have satisfied a private conscience though it was not a legal Proof then to convict him there being but one Witness against them And for this I call Mr. Robert Blayney Mr. Att. Gen. Pray swear Mr. Blayney which was done L. C. J. What do you ask Mr. Blayney Oates Mr. Blayney have you your Notes of Ireland's Trial here Mr. Blayney Yes Sir I have Oates Pray will you look into what my Lord Chief Justice Scroggs said when he discharged the Jury of Whitebread and Fenwick Mr. Blayney Whereabouts is it Sir in the Printed Trial Oates It is page 55. Mr. Blayney I have found the place what is it you would ask me about it Oates Whether my Lord Chief Justice Scroggs did not use these words to the Jury I do acknowledge that Mr. Oates has given a very full and ample Testimony accompanied with all the circumstances of Time and Place against them all That may go far with you all things considered to believe there is a Plot Yet I do not think they have proved it against Whitebread and Fenwick by Two Witnesses though the Testimony be so full as to satisfie a private conscience yet we must go according to Law too It will be convenient from what is already proved to have them stay till more proof come in 'T is a great Evidence that is against them but it not being sufficient in point of Law We discharge you of them It is not a legal Proof to convict them by whatsoever it may be to satisfie your consciences Mr. Blayney I have look'd upon my Notes and I cannot find exactly those words L. C. J. He says he cannot find that passage as it is there Mr. Blayney There is something to that purpose my Lord. Oates Pray Sir will you look into your Notes in the very same place what my Lord Chief Baron said You must speaking to the Jayler understand they are no way acquitted the Evidence is so full against them by Mr. Oates 's Testimony that there is no reason to acquit them it is as flat as by one Witness can be Mr. Blayney There is such a passage I find in my Notes L. C. J. He says there is such a passage Oates Then I desire Mr. Blayney would look into his Notes what my Lord Chief Justice Scroggs said in his summing up the Evidence against Ireland He mentions the Evidence of Sir Dennis Ashburnham who was produced to discredit me and then he adds When the matter is so accompanied with so many other circumstances which are material things and cannot be evaded or deny'd it is almost impossible for any man either to make such a story or not to believe it when it is told It is Ireland's Trial page 72. Mr. Blayney My Lord I do find such a passage in my Notes L. C. J. He says there is such a passage in his Notes Oates Then I would ask Mr. Blaney another question at the bringing in the Verdict of the Jury against Ireland Pickering and Grove my Lord Chief Justice Scroggs that then was had this expression You have done Gentlemen like very good Subjects and very good Christians that is to say like very good Protestants and now much good may their 30000 Masses do them Blayney Yes my Lord there is in my Notes such an expression of my L. C. J. Scroggs Oates Pray you Mr. Blayney have you Whitebread's Trial the Trial of the Five Jesuits I mean Mr. Blayney My Lord when I received a Subpoena from Mr. Oates to be here this day and to bring my Notes of Ireland Whitebread and Langhorns Trials I did as I did before upon another occasion make a search for all my Notes but could not find any but those of the Trial of Ireland and Langhorn and those I have brought here but have not Whitebread's L. C. J. He says he has not the Notes of Whitebread's Trial he cannot find them Oates Then I must desire my Lord that the Printed Trials may be read L. C. J. No they are no Evidence If you can prove what was said at any of them you may by Witnesses but not by the Printed Books Oates Then will your Lordship be pleased to give me leave to mention what was said by your Lordship at that time when you were Recorder of London about your satisfaction with the Evidence L. C. J. Ay with all my heart and whatever I said I will own if I can remember it Oates Will your Lordship be pleased to be sworn then L. C. J. No there will be no need for that I will acknowledge any thing I said then Oates Then if your Lordship pleases I will read those passages out of the Books L. C. J. Ay do so Oates Says Mr. Recorder of London in particular to that part of the Prisoners Defence at the Trial of the Five Jesuits and the full scope given them of making Objections to the Evidence when he gave Judgment of Death upon these Five Jesuits and
in a Family Lord Ch. Justice Was there any body else there Mrs. Mayo There were two of the Daughters and they could all come and testifie the same thing Lord Ch. Justice Where are they and what is become of them why are they not here Mrs. Mayo They are living in Lincolnshire my Lord I think Lord Ch. Justice What else have you more to say Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Mrs. Mayo let me ask you a question What colour'd Cloaths had he on when you faw him first Mrs. Mayo He had a whitish Hat and colour'd Cloaths Mr. Sol. Gen. What time of the day was it you saw him Mrs. Mayo In the morning Lord Ch. Justice Did he go publickly Mrs. Mayo Yes he went publickly Mr. Sol. Gen. Did he come often to the house Mrs. Mayo He was there frequently my Lord. Mr. Sol. Gen. Then it seems he was so disguis'd that he could walk publickly in the streets of London at Noon-day and was frequently in the Family Mrs. Mayo Yes my Lord. Lord Ch. Justice Now tell me who was in the Family Mr. Att. Gen. Mrs. Mayo Lord Ch. Justice Pray give me leave to ask her the question Who was there at that time Mrs. Mayo Sir Richard Barker's Ladies Sister Madam Thurrel and his two Daughters and two of his Kinsmen and two of the Servants one is here a Witness now Lord Ch. Justice Who is that that is a Witness now Mrs. Mayo One that belongs to Sir Richard Barker and the other is now dead those two Kinsmen are dead Lord Ch. Justice What is become of the two Daughters say you Mrs. Mayo They are in Lincolnshire as I take it my Lord. Lord Ch. Justice When did you hear from them Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord it is half a year ago almost since Mr. Oates had notice of this Trial. Lord Ch. Justice Where is Sir Richard Barker himself Mrs. Mayo I was with Sir Richard Barker and he purposed to have come hither but being a crazy man and ancient it seems he could not and desir'd to be excus'd for he had a bad night and was not well but he desired that the Court should know if he were well he would be there Mr. Att. Gen. Were you sworn at a former Trial about this matter Mrs. Mayo Mrs. Mayo Yes Sir I was Mr. Att. Gen. Do you remember what you swore then Mrs. Mayo The same I do now Mr. Att. Gen. Then I ask you this question How long before Whitsuntide was it that you saw Mr. Oates at Sir Richard Barker's Mrs. Mayo A pretty while before twice Oates Mrs Mayo I 'll put you a fair question Whether or no it might not be a fortnight before Whitsuntide you think Mrs. Mayo The last time I saw you was a week before Whitsuntide Lord Ch. Justice How can you tell it was but a week Mrs. Mayo 'T was but a week because at that time I had sent the Boy for the Woman to scowr and wash there Lord Ch. Justice Was that the last time you saw him Mrs. Mayo Yes I saw him several times before and it was all before Whitsuntide Lord Ch. Justice How long before that was the first time that you saw him Mrs. Mayo He would be away for three or four days and come again Lord Ch. Justice But how long before the last time was the first time you saw him Mrs. Mayo He came still to and again Lord Ch. Justice When was the time that you saw him next before the week before Whitsuntide which as you say was the last time you saw him Mrs. Mayo I am not able to say that Lord Ch. Justice Did you believe it was within the compass of a week before Mrs. Mayo To the best of my remembrance it was Lord Ch. Justice When was the first time you saw him Mrs Mayo 'T was in the beginning of May. Lord Ch. Justice You said at first it was the latter-end of April Mrs. Mayo Pray my Lord let me a little think I am unwilling to be mistaken I would say nothing but the Truth Lord Ch. Justice No I would not have thee but for Gods sake let us have the Truth that is that we look for Mrs. Mayo I say the Coach-man saw him there as well as I and he can tell you better than I. Lord Ch. Justice But I ask you this question positively Was it in May or April Mrs Mayo To the best of my remembrance it was the beginning of May Lord Ch. Justice Was it within a week of May Mrs. Mayo I believe it was I cannot tell exactly to a day Mr. Sol. Gen. Was it so or not Mrs Mayo I cannot be positive to a day it is now six years time since I was first examin'd about it Mr Att Gen But you can remember what you swore then can't you Mrs Mayo I declare it I speak not a syllable but I will aver to be true before the great God Mr. Sol. Gen Can you swear it was within the first seven days of May Lord Chief Justice You see Mr. Sollicitor she says she cannot Mr. Att Gen Did not you say at that Trial that you did never see his face till a week before Whitsuntide or a little after Mrs. Mayo I did swear the same that I do now to the best of my remembrance that is the Truth Mr Att Gen But did you not swear so Mrs Mayo I never saw him before that first time he came to Sir Richard Barker's and after the last time that he came I saw him not till after the Plot was discovered Mr. Sol. Gen. How long was that after he had been at your Masters horse Mrs. Mayo It was a good while I cannot tell how long Lord Ch. Justice Was it within a month or two months Mrs. Mayo It was more my Lord. Lord Ch. Justice Where was Sir Richard Barker at that time Mrs. Mayo He was at Putney Lord Ch. Justice Then he did not see him Mrs. Mayo Not then he did not Lord Ch. Justice Did he afterwards Mrs. Mayo Yes he did see him afterwards Lord Ch. Justice How long afterwards was it Mrs. Mayo I can't tell how long afterwards it was my Lord. Lord Ch. Justice About what time was it Mrs. Mayo After the Plot was discovered he was up and down in the Family Lord Ch. Justice You never knew Mr. Oates before that time he came in a Disguise and you did not know him then but as they told you it was he Mrs. Mayo No I did not but as they told me then and this is the man I 'll swear it Oates Call John Butler Crier Here is John Butler Oates Swear him which was done My Lord if you please I will propose my questions to your Lordship and my first question is this I pray your Lordship would ask him Whether he gave in any Evidence at the Five Jesuits Trial or Langhorn's Trial about my being in Town in April or May 78 Lord Ch. Justice Did you give any Evidence at the Five
Jesuits Trial Butler Yes I did Lord Ch. Justice Did you give any Evidence at Langhorn's Trial Butler Yes my Lord I was a Witness there Oates My Lord it is so long ago that ignorant people that come innocently without design may not be so ready in their remembrance as those that conn'd their Leston for so long time together Lord Ch. Justice Well well what do you ask him next Whether he will stand by that Evidence he gave then Butler That is all I have to say my Lord I did testifie the Truth then and will abide by it Lord Ch. Justice But he must give the same over again here or it will signifie nothing Oates My Lord it is now six years since and this question was not thought to be stirr'd so long after Therefore I beg so much favour that the Evidence he did give at Mr. Langhorn's Trial may be read to him Lord Ch. Justice O by no means Oates My Lord it is such a distance of time Lord Ch. Justice Look ye if he has any Notes himself he may look on them to refresh him Oates My Lord he comes raw hither without any instruction at all Lord Ch. Justice So should every Witness God forbid we should countenance the instructing of Witnesses what they should swear Oates I beg your pardon my Lord I did hope this favour might be granted I will then ask him some questions Lord Ch. Justice Ay ay do refresh his memory by questions as much as you can Come I 'll ask him some questions for you Do you remember you saw Mr. Oates at any time in the year 78 Butler If it please your Lordship as near as I can remember I saw him in May before the Plot was discovered Lord Ch. Justice That was the year 78. Butler I am sure I did see him about that time Lord Ch. Justice Where did you see him Butler I was a Servant to Sir Richard Barker and Mr. Oates I had been acquainted with before he went to Sea he us'd to come to my Masters house frequently and divers times he din'd at the Table and I waited upon my Master there Lord Ch. Justice When was that he din'd there at the Table Butler A year before that time in May that I spoke of before It was before he went to Sea Lord Ch. Justice When did you see him again Butler After he came from Sea I saw him at my Masters house Lord Ch. Justice When was it that he went to Sea Butler It was a year or two before the May that I saw him disguis'd coming to my Masters house Mr. Att. Gen. Ay what disguise did he come in Butler His hair was cut off close cropt to his ears and an old white Hat over his head and a short gray Coat over like a Horse mans Coat Lord Ch. Justice How came you to take such notice of him at that time as to be able to swear when this was Butler I was call'd presently after for a Witness Lord Ch. Justice How long after this was it that you were call'd to be a Witness Butler It was when the Trials were at the Old Bailey Lord Ch. Justice Was this the first time you had recollected these circumstances Butler Yes my Lord that was the first time Lord Ch. Justice Then how came you a year and a halfs time afterwards to remember the precise month of May when you did not know you should be call'd to question about it and yet you cannot remember the time particularly when Oates went to Sea but take the compass of a year or two Butler I guess it was a year before I cannot exactly tell Lord Ch. Justice When you can but guess at the time of such a remarkable passage within the compass of a year or two how can you pitch upon the very month for such a thing as this is a year and halfs time after Oates No my Lord it was not so long as a year and a half Lord Ch. Justice Pray Sir have patience Oates My Lord the Records shew that Ireland's Trial was the 17th of December 78 and the Five Jesuits Trial was the 15th of June 79. Lord Ch. Justice Then it is a full twelve months time and more from the May that he says he saw you at Sir Richard Barker's to Whitebread's Tryal in which he was examin'd the first time Now that which I desire of him is to give me a reason why he remembers it was in the May was twelve-month before Butler My Lord The Lady whom I did serve dy'd in February before that year Lord Ch. Justice But give me some reason of your remembrance so long after Butler My Lord I do as well as I can Lord Ch. Justice Well what is it Butler My Lady was buried in February and he comes into the Yard where I was cleaning my Coach in May following that February which was May before the Discovery of the Plot. He ask'd me what alteration was in the Family I told him my Lady was dead and the Escutcheon was over the door for her He ask'd for Doctor Tongue when he came first in the house Lord Ch. Justice Why should he ask for Doctor Tongue Butler My Lord Doctor Tongue lodg'd there and he did ask for him I come to justifie the Truth upon my Salvation what I say is true Lord Ch. Justice Well when he ask'd whether Doctor Tongue was within what said you Butler I told him no but he went into the Room where Doctor Tongue us'd to lie but found him not there So he went out again that was the same time Mrs. Mayo saw him Lord Ch. Justice But Friend prethee mind what I ask thee because thou must give me satisfaction how thou com'st to remember this so as to be able to swear it for his going to ask for Tongue or the Escutcheon being over the door neither of those can be a reason for you to remember that this was in May for the Escutcheon may be up in June or in July or in August or in any other month after the time you speak of But how came you to take notice of this business that it was in May Butler Sir Richard Barker my Master was then sick at Putney which was in May though I cannot speak to a day or a week particularly Lord Ch. Justice Then prethee let me ask thee this question How long had your Master been sick before that Butler He had never been well since my Lady dy'd Lord Ch. Justice When was it that your Lady dy'd Butler In February before L. C. J. How long after that did your Master Sir Richard Barker continue sick Butler Half a year I believe L. C. J. Why then suppose your Master fell sick immediately after your Lady died and he continued sick half a year after yet all this while Oates might come during his sickness even in the month of June or July when 't is acknowledg'd he was in Town and not be here in February which is testified by
Parliament and then if they may be brought L. C. J. Which they cannot be nor never were nor I am sure ought to be nor I hope never will be as long as there is any Justice in the Nation Oates But my Lord you will allow the Records of the House of Lords to be Evidence L. C. J. Yes I tell you I will and for that reason because they are Records out of a Court of Record an Order of Court Baron is no Evidence because it is no Court of Record but a Judgment of a Court Leet is Evidence because it is a Court of Record and there 's the difference Oates My Lord I call in the next place my Lord of Anglesey if he be in Court L. C. J. No he is not here Oates Pray will you give me leave to call my Lord Keeper then L. C. J. See in the Court of Chancery whether my Lord Keeper be there Cryer No my Lord he is not he is gone Oates He was Subpoena'd my Lord and I can have Affidavit made of it he was a material Witness for me L. C. J. I cannot help it he is not here Oates Pray call my Lord Chief Baron L. C. J. Go one of you into the Exchequer and see if my Lord Chief Baron be there and tell him Mr. Oates calls for him as a Witness Oates And Mr. Justice Levins Cryer The Courts are both up and they are all gone Oates They were subpoena'd I am sure to be here well go and see whether they are there or no. L. C. J. In the mean time do you call some other Witnesses Oates I call my Lord Chief Justice Jones L. C. J. The Cryer is gone to look for the Judges Oates Then I call my Lord of Clare L. C. J. Here is my Lord of Clare E. of Clare My Lord I can remember nothing it is so long time ago L. C. J. My Lord of Clare says he can remember nothing Oates I only call my Lord of Clare to ask him one question which I hope his Lordship will remember L. C. J. Swear my Lord of Clare which was done well what is it you ask my Lord Oates My Lord of Clare the question I would ask your Lordship is with what credit I was received in the House of Lords upon my Discovery and that you will to the best of your memory give my Lord and the Jury an account how the House of Peers proceeded upon my Evidence E. of Clare Truly my Lord I cannot give any account it is of so long standing Oates It is a great while ago my Lord and therefore it is hard measure that I must be brought to this Tryal so long after L. C. J. If it be a long time we cannot help it we cannot force People to prosecute sooner than they will do Oates I desire Mr. Baron Gregory may be called L. C. J. He is not here but see and call my Brother Gregory I hear they are all together in the Treasury Oates Then I call Mr. Williams that was Speaker in the House of Commons L. C. J. Here is Mr. Williams he was sworn Oates I desire Mr. Williams because you were then Speaker of the Commons House of Parliament you would be pleased to tell what you remember concerning the credit I received in that Parliament in which you were Speaker upon the Discovery I made of the Popish Plot and particularly as to the Consult of Jesuits to kill the late King in the month of April 78. Mr. Williams My Lord my Memory is never very good but especially in a case that is at such a distance of time and which consists of so many Particulars as this I mean Mr. Oates Discovery But this my Lord I do remember he was examin'd at the Bar of the House of Commons and gave a long account but it is more than any man can do to tell every Particular that is said in that House L. C. J. Was he upon his Oath Mr. Williams at the Bar of the House of Commons Mr. Williams My Lord he was as other men are that are examin'd in the House of Commons L. C. J. We all know it could not be upon Oath they have not Power to give an Oath Mr. Williams What Reputation he was of I cannot say so well as what their Proceedings did testifie L. C. J. Nor in case they did believe him never so much is it any thing to this question which is whether he swore true or false at Ireland's Tryal Mr. Wiliams My Lord when a Person is brought to the Barr there to be a Witness in any Cause every body is silent and the Witness is heard what he has to say and so was Mr. Oates when he had done he withdrew but what the Opinion of the House was upon it I must submit to their Votes and Resolutions L. C. J. Which you know Mr. Williams are no Evidence Mr. Williams That I must submit to the Court. Oates I desire my Lord of Clare would be pleased to tell if he remembers what Credit the House of Lords gave me upon my Discovery E. of Clare My Lord I do not well hear Mr. Oates question Oates My Lord my question is this when I was brought to the Bar of the Lords House whether I did not receive the thanks of the Lords House for my Discovery E. of Clare Truly Sir at the beginning of the Discovery of the Popish Plot I was not in Town nor in the House L. C. J. But now Mr. Oates I hope you are satisfied by the answer that is given by your own Witness that what is done in the House of Commons is no Evidence and I would have you remember that is the Reason of it because they are no Court of Record and because they cannot so much as give an Oath Oates My Lord I see my Lord of Huntingdon is here and tho I did not Subpoena his Lordship nor design'd to have troubled him yet being here I desire his Lordship would give the Court an account what Credit I had in the House of Lords upon my Discovery L. C. J. Swear my Lord of Huntingdon which was done E. of Huntingdon I do believe my Lord Mr. Oates Discovery found a good reception in the House of Lords but it was grounded upon the opinion that what he said was true and that he was an honest man for so the House then accounted him to be and upon this it was their Lordships gave credit to his Testimony and indeed had the matter been true it was of high Importance to have it thorougly examined But since that time it being apparent there were so many and great Contradictions Falsities and Perjuries in his Evidence upon which so much innocent blood hath been shed I believe a great many Persons who were concerned in the Trials of those unfortunate men are heartily afflicted and sorry for their share in it And I do believe most of the House of Peers have altered their opinion as to this
was done Mr. Soll. Gen. 'Pray' tell what Davenport told you and when Mr. He came and told me the next day in the Prison where I was then what Mr. Oates and Sir William Waller had been tampering with Clay about to make him swear for Mr. Oates L. C. Justice What were the words he told you they said to him Mr. It was That he must swear That Mr. Oates dined at Mr. Howard's house such a day of the month and Mr. Clay did say he knew nothing of the matter but then Sir William Waller and Mr. Oates did reply to him again here 's your Choice if you will not swear this we will try you for a Priest and hang you and so Clay agreed if he might have his money restored that was taken from him he had been a Rogue before and did not know what he might do Oates Is this Evidence my Lord L. C. Justice Yes doubtless very good Evidence Oates 'T is only upon heresay that he speaks L. C. Justice But that establishes the other man's Testimony this being told the very next morning for he would not conceal it it seems Mr. Att. Gen. Now that Clay was sworn at the Trial you admit Mr. Oates Oates Yes I do he was so Mr. Att. Gen. Then I think here 's a plain proof of a Subornation L. C. Justice You must observe how they apply this Evidence They say You are an ill man not only as to swearing false your self but as to suborning others to swear more than they knew and particularly as to this Clay that you and Sir William Waller did threaten him you would hang him up for a Priest if he would not swear as you would have him and by your Threatnings he was prevailed with to swear Oates Is Mr. Clay in Court my Lord L. C. Justice Nay I cannot tell where he is Mr. Att. Gen. He was your witness Mr. Oates we expected you would have brought him Oates I cannot tell where to find him my Lord now truly Mr. Att. Gen. Call Mr. Howard Cryer Here he is Sir he is sworn L. C. Justice Mr. Aâ—torney you have not proved what he swore Mr. Att. Gen. We are now about it my Lord. Mr. Howard 'pray' were you at the Trial of the five Jesuits or at Langhorn's when Clay was sworn as a witness for Dr. Oates Mr. Howard Yes I was at Langhorn's Trial my Lord. Mr. Att. Gen. What was the Effect of his Testimony there Mr. Howard He did swear That he was with me and Mr. Oates at dinner at my House in May in the year 77. Mr. Att. Gen. 77 did he say or 78 Mr. Howard Stay I will look upon my Notes I took at that time L. C. Justice Ay do so to refresh your memory Mr. Howard Mr. Howard It was May 78 my Lord. Mr. Soll. Gen. 'Pray' thus Sir Was he then at your house with Oates Mr. Howard No he was not there in May Mr. Clay was with me and Mr. Oates both together in July 78. after the fourth day of July Mr. Att. Gen. That is after the time he came to London from St. Omers L. C. Justice You say very well have you any more witnesses Mr. Soll. Gen. My Lord we must desire that the 28th Article of Mr. Oates's Narrative may be read O. Grown Reads That in order to this Command on April 24.78 Father Warren Rector of Leidge Sir Thomas Preston Baronet Father Marsh Rector of Gaunt and Father Williams Rector of Watton and Master of the Novices Sir John Warner Baronet Richard Ashby Rector of the English Seminary at St. Omers being sick of the Gout could not go But out of the said Seminary went Sir Robert Bret Baronet Father Pool Edward Nevile There were in all with the Deponent nine or ien who met in London in Consult with Thomas Whitebread Father Harcourt Senior and Father Harcourt Junior John Fenwick Basil Langworth William Morgan John Keimes Father Lovel Father Ireland Father Blundel Richard Strange Father Mico Father Grey and others to the Number of fifty Jesuits met at the White-Horse-Tavern in the Strand where they plotted their Designs for the Society and ordered Father John Carey who was also there to go Procurator for Rome at which Consult thus held in the Month of May the Deponent was present to attend the Consultors and deliver their Concernes from Company to Company and then a little after they left the White-Horse-Tavern and divided themselves into several Clubs and Companies some met at Mr. Saunders House in Wild Street others at Mr. Fenwick 's at Aireses his House in Drury Lane others at Mr. Ireland 's in Russel Street near Covent-Garden and in other places All which though in several Companies five or six in a Company did contrive the death of the King and in order to which there were Papers sent from Company to Company which the Deponent did carry cortaining their opinions of the timing their Business and the manner how it was to be done and within three or four days after the Deponent went to St. Omers with the Fathers that came from the other side of the water Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord we produce this to overthrow their Witnesses That speak of his being here a week in May. Now Mr. Oates in this Narrative says That the Consult ended the twenty fourth of April and that three or four days after he returned back to St. Omers L. C. Justice 'Pray' read that over again where the names are for the Witnesses for the King swear That Mr. Williams came over from St. Omers but he here says he did not I think It was read again L. C. Justice I thought it had been otherwise 'T is darkly penn'd Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord I my self heard him declare in many Trials here and at the Old Baily That all was finished in that day and he went away in a few days Oates Mr. Attorney you are mistaken For if you please my Lord the Consult was not dissolved in six or eight days though they were not sitting or acting every day Mr. Att. Gen. 'T is not a difference of six or eight days that is contended for but it is Either Mr Oates or his Witnesses do not swear true If it were as Mr. Oates says That six or eight days were allow'd after the twenty fourth of April then it must be the fifth or sixth of May that he went to St. Omers and then his Witnesses that say he was here the Latter end of May can not swear true And our Witnesses say he was all April and May until the twenty third of June at St. Omers Oates My Lord Mr. Attorney does not apprehend the Evidence aright L. C. Justice Well you may make your Remarks by and by and set him right if you can Mr. Att. Gen. We have done our Evidence my Lord. L. C. Justice Have you any more Witnesses Mr. Oates Oates No my Lord I have not L. C. Justice Then you must conclude and say what you have to say to
he was charged with High Treason and committed to the Tower of London at several Sessions in the Old Baily and at Hicks's Hall they did move that they might have liberty to bring in an Indictment of Perjury against the witnesses which did accuse him of Treason but now the Court there over-ruled those Motions and would not suffer my Lord of Shaftsbury's Friends to bring Indidictments of Perjury against him because they would not have the King's Evidence Indicted of Perjury nor the Popish Plot called in question This is matter of Fact in the Old Baily L. C. Justice And this is all idle too Oates 'Pray' my Lord will you hear me L. C. Justice But 'pray' Sir will you hear me too I tell you this is nothing to the purpose neither Oates My Lord I desire to speak but these few words then as to my own Witnesses I have produced And the first is Cicely Mayo and my Lord though it be your Lordships pleasure not to have that good opinion of her as I think the poor woman does deserve yet I hope her Evidence will have it's due Weight and Consideration with your Lordship and the Jury she says she saw me in Town in the Month of May Now indeed she could not be positive what May it was but she said it was the May before the Popish Plot broke out that is before the Rumour of that Plot was spread abroad and she believes the Plot broke out in 78. But this she says positively she saw me in the Month of May here my Lord she comes to give this Evidence freely and voluntarily a man that is a Knave is a Knave for something either out of Malice or for Gain or Interest but she has no Reward given her nor can hope for any but in Love to Justice without any by-end or particular Interest she came here to testifie the truth about her seeing me in London in May 78. The next Witness is Mr. Butler he was then Sir Richard Barker's Coachman He lived some years with him as his Servant but he is now set up for himself and he says that when he was about his Masters Business in the Coach-yard and fitting the Coach for to fetch his Master home from Putney I came in and this was in the beginning of May in a disguise and he says he saw me a second time in another disguise Then comes a third Witness that I called and that is Page and he came into the Hall where the Patients use to wait for his Master and there he met me and spoke with me Then I called Walker the Minister but it happens his Memory is not so good now as it was heretofore and indeed I cannot tell how to blame him for 't is so long since that it is impossible for any body to remember the Circumstances of times and places that in some short time after the Fact might have been remembred with far greater Ease I expected Sir Richard Barker might have been here being Subpoened to Justifie the Evidence of these people and I did expect that Mr. Smith would have been examined but I perceived the Court tender of that point as knowing it would then easily have been seen upon which side it was that he was suborn'd that is to make such a Confession as Mr. Attorney would have hinted at L. C. Justice Have you a mind to examine him Mr. Oates with all my heart If you consent to it he shall be examined Mr. Just Withens If you will he shall be examined it was for your sake he was not Mr. Just Holloway It was to do you Right that he was refused to be sworn before Oates Good Mr. Justice Holloway you are very sharp upon me Mr. Just. Holloway No I am not sharp upon you I think the Court did you a great deal of Justice you have no reason to complain Oates But my Lord this I say The Evidence upon which I am now indicted of Perjury is the same which was delivered six years ago at the Old Baily at Whitebread's Trial first and then at Langhorn's Trial where were sixteen Witnesses then produced and heard against me But then my Lord what Credit did they receive at Whitebread and Langhorn's Trials Now if this Evidence that I gave was then to be beleived tho opposed by so many Witnesses what new objection does rise against it which was not then hinted and received an answer For as to all the Records that are brought out of the House of Lords they have not amounted to a Charge sufficient to diminish any mans Evidence in the world for as to the Narrative that is entred there in the Journal I think I and any man else that were concerned as I was may very well defend the truth of it and I do avow the truth of the Popish Plot and will stand by it as long as I have a day to live and I do not question but the Jury upon Consideration of those Protestant Witnesses that I have here brought against these Popish Seminaries will acquit me of this Perjury I leave it to your Lordship and the Jury to judge and I hope those passages of heat that have fallen from me in Court shall not make me fare at all the worse in your Judgement I have called some Noble Lords to testify for me but I find either the distance of time has wrought upon their memories or the difference of the season has chang'd their opinion so that now they disbelieve that which they did believe before and perhaps for as little Reason as L. C. Justice As they believed you at first Oates Yes truely my Lord for as little reason as they believed me at first For I cannot expect that a man who believes without a principal should not recant that belief without a reason L. C. Justice What do you mean by that Oates I name no body L. C. Justice But the Nobility that are here and that have been Witnesses in this Cause are all persons of that Honour that the Court is bound in Justice to take notice of and vindicate them from your scandalous Reflections but only I think that a Slander from your Mouth is very little Scandal Oates Nor from some bodies else neither L. C. Justice But Sir you must be taught better manners Oates I find my Lord I am not to be heard in this Cause with Patience L. C. Justice I think you do not deserve to be heard at all Oates I cannot tell how to help it if you will not hear me L. C Justice Can't you say what you have to say for your self without Reflections and running out into such Extravagancies Oates My Lord you will suffer me to offer nothing that is Material for my Defence Mr. Just. Walcot Do you think it decent for this Court to suffer persons of Honour that by your own desire were sworn to give Testimony in this Cause should lie under the Reproach of your Tongue Oates Good Mr. Justice Walcot was there ever
any man dealt with as I am or had such Evidence offered to be given against him Here they offer to blacken me with the Imputation of that foul infamous Crime of Perjury and who are the Witnesses to prove it but Youths out of a Seminary Sir George Wakeman and my Lord Castlemain known Papists and perhaps Popish Recusants Convict too as for my Lord Castlemain the Record of his acquital is brought as a Charge against me to prove that I was forsworn and not believed at his Tryal when all the World knows it was because there was but one Witness against him that he came of and that was the Reason that was urged by my Lord C. Justice Soroggs at that very time who would not admit Dangerfield to be a Witness and reflected not at all upon my Testimony but directed the Jury for want of another Witness to acquit him Then my Lord here is Wakeman brought and his acquital too he swears all I said against him was false whereas had it not been for two dishonest persons one I have now in my sight I shall not name any names we could at that time have proved five thousand pound of the money paid to him and that he gave a Receipt for it but my Lord this I am sure of if I had been brought in as a Witness in the Case of those that suffered lately for the Presbyterian Phanatick Plot as they call it I had never been call'd in question if my Evidence had been false but it is apparent the Papists have now a Turn to serve and these Papists are brought in the St. Omers Youths to bear this Testimony on purpose to falsify my Evidence and to bring of the Popish Lords that now stand impeach'd of high Treason for the Popish Conspiracy but my Lord I hope as the Court would never admit indictments of Perjury against the Witnesses in that Case of my Lord Shaftsbury so you will not admit it here and if my L. C. Justice Jones were in the Right who did the same thing in his Circuit I hope I shall have that Right done me here My Lord it is not me they indict but the whole Protestant Interest is aim'd at in this Prosecution and hereby they arraign the whole proceedings of so many Parliaments all the Courts of Justice and the Verdicts of those Juries that convicted the Traytors that were executed for my own part I care not what becomes of me the Truth will one time or another appear L. C. Justice I hope in God it will Oates I do not question it my Lord. L. C. Justice And I hope we are finding it out to day Oates But my Lord since I have not the liberty to argue those things that were most material for my defence against this Indictment I appeal to the Great God of Heaven and Earth the Judge of all and once more in his presence and before all this Auditory I avow my Evidence of the Popish Plot all and every part of it to be nothing but true and will expect from the Almighty God the Vindication of my Integrity and Innocence Mr. Sol. Gen. May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury Oates My Lord I have one thing to move to your Lordship I desire I may be brought up to morrow by Rule of Court to hear my Trial that is then to be L. C. Justice Ay let him be brought up by rule to his Trial. Oates My Lord I lie under very great affliction with the Stone and the Gout and besides that I have lain in Irons these twenty one weeks I beseech your Lordship that this Cruelty may not be inflicted upon me My Lord I am but hitherto a Debtor to the King upon a Civil Account And if I should be convicted upon these Indictments I could then be but in Execution for a Trespass And I humbly conceive and hope the Court will show me that Favour as to acquaint my keeper that I ought not to be so handled L. C. Justice Look you for that I tell you again what I have often said I expect from the Marshal that he keep you as he ought to keep you I have heard that there have been abundance of Attempts made for your escape and therefore the Marshal must have the greater care of you Oates Let any of those Complaints be made out my Lord and I 'll be contented to be used how they will L. C. Justice I repeat it again let the Marshal have a care to keep you in salva et arcta Custodia according to Law Mr. Just Holloway If the Marshal does otherwise than his Duty inform against him and take the Remedy the Law allows Marshal But the last night my Lord Ropes were brought into his Chamber on purpose to give him means to escape and here are the bundle of Ropes Oates I know nothing at all of them I assure you my Lord. L. C. Justice Well you have our Rule Go on Mr. Sollicitor Mr. Soll. General May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury I am of Council for the King in this Cause which is upon an Indictment of Perjury against Titus Oates the Defendant and the Perjury charg'd upon the Defendant is laid to be in his Oath at the Trial of Ireland at the Old Baily and it is thus That he in his Evidence at that Trial did swear that there was a Treasonable Consult of the Jusuits held at the White-Horse-Tavern in the Strand the twenty fourth of April 78. and that he was there present Oates Ay I was there L. C. Justice You must be quiet and let the Council go on without interruption Mr. Soll. Gen. And that they seperated themselves into lesser Companies and Clubs and that the Jesuits came to a resolution to murder the late King and that he the Defendant Oates carried this resolution from Chamber to Chamber and saw it signed by them now all this is laid in his Indictment to be false for that in truth he was not present at any such Consult of the Jesuits at the White-Horse-Tavern in the Strand upon the twenty fourth of April 78. nor did carry any such resolution from Chamber to Chamber to be sign'd as he had sworn in the Old Baily at that Trial and so has committed Wilful and Corrupt Perjury Gentlemen the Evidence that has been given to prove that he was not present at any such Consult nor did carry any such Resolution has been by proving where he was at that very time that he swears this Consult was held that is that he was really at St. Omers in parts beyond the Seas and not in London and to make out this we have produced no less then twenty Winesses that swear positively and give you very many Circumstances to induce you to believe that what they have taken upon them to remember is really and effectually true First you have Mr. Hilsley and he swears that he himself came away from St. Omers the twenty