same Parliament of the five and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first where the writs went to the Treasurer and Barons of the Exchequer Sometimes they gave judgement here in Parliament and commanded the Judges there in Ireland to doe execution as in the great case of Partition betweene the copartners of the Earle Marshall in the Parliament of the 33. yeere of Edward the first where the writ was awarded to the Treasurer of Ireland My Lords The Lawes of Ireland were introduced by the Parliaments of England as appeares by three Acts of Parliament before cited It is of higher jurisdiction dare Leges then to judge by them The Parliaments of England doe binde in Ireland if Ireland be particularly mentioned as is resolved in the Book case of the first yeere of Henry the seventh Cokes seventh Report Calvins case and by the Judges in Trinity Terme in the three and thirtieth yeere of Queene Elizabeth The Statute of the eighth yeere of Edward the fourth the first Chapter in Ireland recites that it was doubted amongst the judges whether all the English Statutes though not naming Ireland were in force there if named no doubt From King Henry the third his time downward to the eighth yeere of Queene Elizabeth by which statute it is made felony to carry sheepe from Ireland beyond seas in almost all these Kings reignes there be statutes made concerning Ireland The exercising of the Legislative power there over their lives and estates is higher then of the Judiciall in question Vntill the nine and twentieth yeere of Edward the third erroneous judgements given in Ireland were determinable no where but in England no not in the Parliaments of Ireland as it appeares in the close rolls in the Tower In the nine and twentieth yeere of Ed. the third mem 12. Power to examine and reverse erroneous judgements in the Parliaments of Ireland is granted from hence Writs of errour lie in the Parliament here upon erroneous judgements after that time given in the Parliaments of Ireland as appeares in the Parliament rolls of the eighth yeere of Henry the sixth membra 70. in the case of the Prior of Lenthan It is true the case is not determined there for it 's the last thing that came into the Parliament and could not be determined for want of time but no exception at all is taken to the jurisdiction The Acts of Parliament made in Ireland have been confirmed in the Parliaments of England as appeares by the close rolls in the Tower in the 42. yeere of Edward the 3. membra 20. dorso where the Parliament in Ireland for the preservation of the Countrey from the Irish who had almost destroyed it made an Act that all the land-owners that were English should reside upon their lands or else they were to be forfeited this was here confirmed In the Parliament of the 4. yeere of H. the 5. chap. 6. Acts of Parliament in Ireland are confirmed and some privileges of the Peeres in the Parliaments there are regulated Power to repeale Irish Statutes power to confirme them cannot be by the Parliament here if it hath not cognizance of their Parliaments unlesse it besaid That the Parliament may doe it knowes not what Garnesey and Jersey are under the Kings subjection but are not parcels of the Crown of England but of the dutchy of Normandy they are not governed by the lawes of England as Ireland is and yet Parliaments in England have usually held plea of and determined all causes concerning land or goods In the Parliament of 33. E. 1. there be placita de Insula Iernesey and so in the Parliament 14. E. 2. and so for Normandy and Gascoyne and alwayes as long as any part of France was in subjection to the Crown of England there were at the beginning of Parliaments receivers and tryers of petitions for those parts appointed I beleeve your Lordships will have no cases shewed of any plea to the jurisdiction of the Parliaments of England in any thing done in any parts wheresoever in subjection to the Crown of England The last thing I shall offer to your Lordships is the case of 19. El. in my Lord Dyer 306. and Judge Comptons book of the jurisdiction of Courts fol. 23. The opinion of both these books is that an Irish Peere is not triable here It 's true a Scotish or French Nobleman is triable here as a common person the Law takes no notice of their Nobility because those Countryes are not governed by the Lawes of England but Ireland being governed by the same Lawes the Peeres there are triable according to the Law of England onely per pares By the same reason the Earle of Strafford not being a peere of Ireland is not triable by the Peeres of Ireland so that if he be not triable here he is triable no where My Lords In case there be a Treason and a Traitor within the statute and that he be not triable here for it in the ordinary way of judicatory if that jurisdiction failes this by way of Bill doth not Attainders of Treason in Parliament are as legall as usuall by Act of Parliament as by Judgement I have now done with the statutes of 25. E. 3 and 18. H. 6. My Lord of Strafford hath offended against both the Kingdomes and is guilty of high Treason by the Lawes of both 5 My Lords In the fifth place I am come to the Treasons at the common Law the endevouring to subvert the fundamentall Lawes and government of the Kingdome and to introduce an arbitrary and tyrannycall government In this I shall not at all labour to prove that the endevouring by words counsells and actions to subvert the Lawes is treason at the common Law if there be any common-Law-treasons at all left nothing treason if this not to make a Kingdome no Kingdome take the politie and government away England's but a peece of earth wherein so many men have their commorancy and abode without rancks or distinction of men without property in any thing further then possession no Law to punish the murdering or robbing one another That of 33 H. 8. of introducing the Imperiall Law sticks not with your Lordships It was in case of an appeal to Rome These appeals in cases of marriages and other causes counted Ecclesiasticall had been frequent had in most Kings reignes been tollerated some in times of popery put a conscience upon them the statutes had limitted the penally to a Premunire only Neither was that a totall subversion only an appeal from the Ecclesiasticall Court here in a single cause to the Court at Rome and if treason or not that case proves not a treason may be punished as a felony a felony as a trespasse if his Majesty so please the greater includes the lesser In the case of Premunire in the Irish reports that which is there declared to be treason proceeded upon onely as a Premunire The thing most considerable in this is whether the treasons at common Law be taken
If every felony be losse of life lands and goods what is misuser of the Legislative power by addition of Ignominie in the death and disposall of the lands to the Crowne the publick patrimony of the Kingdome But it was hoped that your Lordships had no more skill in the Art of killing of men than your worthy Ancesters My Lords this appeale from your selves to your Ancesters we admit of although we doe not admit of that from your Lordships to the Peeres of Ireland He hath appealed unto them your Lordships will bee pleased to hear what judgement they have already given in the case that is the severall attenders of treason in Parliament after the Statute of 25. E. 3. for treasons not mentioned without nor within that Statute and those upon the first offenders warning given By the Statute of 25. E. 3. its treason to levie war against the King Gomines and Weston afterwards in Parliament in 1. R. 2. Num. 38 39. adjudged traytors for surrendring two severall Castles in France only out of feare without any compliance with the Enimy this not within the Statute of 25. E. 3. My Lords in 3. R. 2. Iohn Imperiall that came into England upon letters of safe conduct as an Agent for the state of Genoa sitting in the Evening before his door in Breadstreet as the words of the Records are paulo ante ignit egium Iohn Kirby and another Citizen comming that way casually Kirby trode upon his Toe it being twilight this grew to a quarrell and the Ambassador was slaine Kirby was indicted of high treason the indictment findes all this and that it was only done se defendendo and without malice The Iudges it being out of the statute of 25. E. 3. could not proceede the Parliament declared it treason and judgement afterwards of high treason ther 's nothing can bring this within the statute of 25. E. 3. but it concerns the honour of the Nation that the publick faith should be strictly kept It might endanger the traffick of the kingdome they made not a Law first they made the first man an example This is in the Parliament Roll 3. R. 2. num 18. and Hilary Terme 3. R. 2. Rot. 31. in the Kings Bench where judgement is given against him In 11. R. 2. Tresiltan and some others attainted of treason for delivering opinions in the subversion of the Law and some others for plotting the like My Lords the case hath upon another occasion been opened to your Lordship only this is observable That in the Parliament of the 1. yeere of Henry the third where all treasons are againe reduced to the Statute of 25. Edward 3. these Attainders were by a particular Act confirmed and made good that the memory thereof might be transmitted to succeeding ages They stand good to this day the offences there as here were the endeavouring the subversion of the lawes My Lords after â— Henry the fourth Sir John Mortimer being committed to the Tower upon suspition of treason brake prison and made an escape This no way within any Statute or any former Judgement at common Law for this that is for breaking the prison onely and no other cause in the Parliament held the second yeere of Henry the sixth he was attainted of high treason by Bill My Lords poysoning is onely murder yet one Richard Coke having put poyson into a pot of potage in the kitchin of the Bishop of Rochester whereof two persons dyed hee 's attainted of Treason and it was enacted that he should be boyled to death by the statute of 22. H. 8. cap. 9. By the statute of 25. H. 8. Elizabeth Barton the holy maid of Kent for pretending revelations from God that God was highly displeased with the King for being divorced from the Lady Katherina and that in case he persisted in the separation and should marry another that he would not continue King above one month after because this tended to the depriving of the lawfull succession to the Crown she is attainted of Treason In the Parliament 2. and 3. H. 6. cap. 16. the Lord Admirall of England was attainted of Treason for procuring the Kings Letters to both Houses of Parliament to be good to the said Earle in such matters as he should declare unto them for saying that he would make the Parliament the blackest Parliament that ever was in England endevouring to marry the Lady Elizabeth the Kings sister taking a bribe of Sherrington accused of Treason and thereupon consulting with Counsell for him and some other crimes none of them Treason so cleerely within the statute of 25. E. 3. or any other statute as is the case in question My Lords All these Attainders for ought I know are in force at this day the statutes of the 1. H. 4. and the 1. Queene Mary although they were willing to make the statute of the 25. yeere of E. 3. the Rule of the inferiour Courts yet they left the Attainders in Parliament precedent to themselves untoucht wherein the Legislative power had been exercised There 's nothing in them whence it can bee gathered but that they intended to leave it as free for the future My Lords in all these Attainders there were crimes and offences against the Law they thought it not unjust circumstances considered to heighten and adde to the degrees of punishment and that upon the first offender My Lords We receive as just the other Lawes and statutes made by these our Ancesters They are the rules we go by in other cases why should wee differ from them in this alone These my Lords are in part those things which have satisfied the Commons in passing the Bill but it is now left to the Judgement and Justice of your Lordships FINIS
M R. S T. JOHN ' S Argument My Lords THE Knights Citizens and Burgesses of the Commons House of Parliament have passed a Bill for the attainting of Thomas Earle of Strafford of High-Treason The Bill hath beene transmitted from them to your Lordships It concernes not him alone but your Lordships and the Commons too though in different Respects It is to make him as miserable a man as man or Law can make him Not losse of life alone but with that of honour name posterity and estate Of all that 's deare to all To use his owne expression an eradication of him both root and branch as an Achan a troubler of the State as an execrable as an accursed thing This Bill as it concernes his Lordship the highest that can be in the penall part so doth it on the other side as highly concerne your Lordships and the Commons in that which ought to be the tendrest the Judicatory within that that judge not them who judge him And in that which is most sacred amongst men the publick Justice of the Kingdome The Kingdome is to be accounted unto for the losse of the meanest member much more for one so neare the head The Commons are concerned in their Account for what is done your Lordships in that which is to be done The businesse therefore of the present Conference is to acquaint your Lordships with those things that satisfied the Commons in passing of this Bill such of them as have come within my capacity and that I can remember I am commanded from the Commons at this time to present unto your Lordships My Lords in Judgements of greatest moment there are but two wayes for satisfying those that are to give them Either the Lex lata the Law already established Or else the use of the same power for making new Lawes whereby the old at first received life In the first consideration of the setled Lawes In the degrees of punishment the positive Law received by generall consent and for the common good is sufficient to satisfie the conscience of the Judge in giving judgement according to them In severall Countreys there is not the same measure of punishment for one and the same offence Wilfull murder in Ireland is Treason and so is the wilfull burning of a house or stack of Corne. In the Isle of Man it 's felony to steale a Hen but not to steale a Horse and yet the Judge in Ireland hath as just a ground to give judgement of high Treason in those Cases there as here to give judgement only of felony and in the Isle of Man of felony for the Hen as here of petty Larceny My Lords in the other consideration of using the Supreame power the same Law gives power to the Parliament to make new Lawes that enables the inferiour Court to judge according to the old The rule that guides the conscience of the Inferiour Court is from without the prescripts of the Parliament and of the Common Law in the other the rule is from within That salus populi be concerned That there be no wilfull oppression of any the fellow members that no more blood be taken than what is necessary for the Cure the Laws and Customes of the Realme as well enable the exercise of this as of the ordinary and judiciall power My Lords what hath beene said is because that this proceeding of the Commons by way of Bill implyes the use of the meere Legislative power in respect new Lawes are for the most part past by Bill This my Lords though just and Legall and therefore not wholly excluded yet it was not the only ground that put the Commons upon the Bill they did not intend to make a new Treason and to condemne my Lord of Strafford for it they had in it other Considerations likewise which were to this effect 1 First the Commons knew that in all former ages if doubts of Law arose upon cases of great and generall Concernment the Parliament was usually consulted withall for resolution which is the reason that many Acts of Parliament are only declarative of the Old Law not introductive of a new as the great Charter of our Liberties the Statute of the five and twentieth yeere of Edward the third of Treasons the Statute of the Prerogative and of late the petition of Right If the Law were doubtfull in this Case they conceived the Parliament where the old may bee altered and new Lawes made the fittest Judge to cleare this doubt 2 Secondly my Lords they proceeded this way to out those scruples and delayes which through dis-use of proceedings of this nature might have risen in the manner and way of proceeding since the Statute of the first of Henry the fourth the seventeenth chapter and more fully in the Roll number 144. The proceedings in Parliament have usually beene upon an Inditement first found though in Cases of Treason particularly mentioned in the Statute of the five and twentieth yeare of Edward the third which had not beene done in this Case Doubts likewise might rise for Treasons not particularly mentioned in the Statute of 25. Edw. 3. whether the declaratory power of Parliament be taken away and if not taken away in what manner they were to be made and by whom They finde not any Attainders of Treason in Parliament for neere this 200 yeeres but by this way of Bill And againe they knew that whatsoever could be done any other way it might be done by this 3 Thirdly in respect of the proofes and depositions that have beene made against him for first although they knew not but that the whole Evidence which hath beene given at the Barre in every part of it is sufficiently comprehended within the Charge yet if therein they should be mistaken if it should prove otherwise use may justly be made of such Evidence in this way of Bill wherein so as Evidence be given in it 's no way requisite that there should have beene any Articles or Charge at all And so in the Case of double Testimony upon the Statute of the first of Edward the sixt whether one direct witnesse with others to Circumstances had beene single or double Testimony and although single Testimony might be sufficient to satisfie private Consciences yet how farre it would have been satisfactory in a judiciall way where forms of Law are more to be stood upon was not so cleare whereas in this way of Bill private satisfaction to each mans Conscience is sufficient although no evidence had been given in at al. My Lords the proceeding by way of Bill it was not to decline your Lordships Justice in the judiciall way In these Exegencies of the State and Kingdome it was to husband time by silencing those doubts they conceived it the speediest and the surest way My Lords These are in effect the things the Commons took into their Consideration in respect of the manner and way of proceeding against the Earle In the next place I am to declare unto your
being asked by those he spake to how he durst maintaine so bloody an assertion he answered that the matter was not so haynous as was supposed for the King who is the lesser is concluded by the Pope who is the greater and as a Malefactor being condemned before a Temporall Judge may bee delivered over to bee Executed so the King standing convicted by the Popes sentence of excommunication may justly be slaughtered without fault for the killing of the King is the execution of the Popes supreame sentence as the other is the execution of the Law for this judgement of High Treason was given against him and execution done My Lords here is no cleere intent appearing that Owen desired the thing should bee done only Arguments that it might be done This is a compassing there is a cleere Endeavour to corrupt the judgement to take off the bonds of conscience the greatest security of the Kings life God forbid saith one of better judgement than he That I should stretch out my hand against the Lords annointed no saith he the Lord doth not forbid it you may for these reasons lawfully kill the King Hee that denies the Title to the Crown and plots the meanes of setting it upon another head may doe this without any direct or immediate desiring the death of him that then weares it yet this is Treason as was adjudged in 10. Henry 7. in the case of Burton and in the Duke of Norfolks case 13. Elizabeth This is a compassing of his death for there can no more be two Kings in one Kingdome than two Suns in the Firmament he that conceives a title counts it worth ventring for though it cost him his life he that is in possession thinks it as well worth the keeping Iohn Sparhauke in King Henry the fourths time meeting two men upon the way amongst other talk said that the King was not rightfull King but the Earle of March and that the Pope would grant indulgencies to all that would assist the Earles title and that within halfe a yeree there would be no Liveries nor Conizances of the King that the King had not kept promise with the people but had layd taxes upon them In Easter Terme in the third yeere of Henry the fourth in the Kings Bench Rot. 12. this adjudged Treason This denying the title with motives though but implyedly of Action against it adjudged Treason this is a compassing the Kings death How this was a compassing the Kings death is declared in the reasons of the judgement That the words were spoken with an intent to withdraw the affections of the people from the King and to excite them against the King that in the end they might rise up against him in mortem destructionem of the King My Lords in this Judgement and others which I shall cite to your Lordships It appeares that it is a compassing the Kings death by words to indeavour to draw the peoples hearts from the King to set discord betweene the King and them whereby the people should leave the King should rise up against him to the death and destruction of the King The cases that I shall cite prove not onely that this is Treason but what is sufficient evidence to make this good Upon a Commission held the 18. yeere of Edw. 4. in Kent before the Marquesse of Dorset and others an Inditement was preferred against John Awater of High-Treason in the forme before mentioned for words which are entred in the enditement sub hac forma That he had beene servant to the Earle of Warwicke that though he were dead the Earle of Oxford was alive and should have the government of part of the Countrey That Edward whom you call King of England was a false man and had by art and subtlety slaine the Earle of Warwicke and the Duke of Clarence his brother without any cause who before had beene both of them attainted of High-Treason My Lords this Inditement was returned into the Kings Bench in Trinity Tearme in the eighteenth yeere of Edward the fourth and in Easter Tearme in the two and twentieth yeere of Edward the fourth he was outlawed by the stay of the outlawry so long it seemes the Judges had well advised before whether it were Treason or not At the same Session Thomas Hober was indited of Treason for these words That the last Parliament was the most simple and insufficient Parliament that ever had beene in England That the King was gone to live in Kent because that for the present he had not the love of the Citizens of London nor should he have it for the future That if the Bishop of Bath and Wels were dead the Archbishop of Canterbury being Cardinall of England would immediately lose his head This inditement was returned into the Kings Bench in Trinity Tearme in the eighteenth yeere of Edward the fourth Afterwards there came a Privy Seale to the Judges to respit the proceedings which as it should seeme was to the intent the Judges might advise of the Case for afterwards he is outlawed of high-Treason upon this inditement These words were thought sufficient evidence to prove these severall Inditements That they were spoken to withdraw the peoples affection from the King to excite them against him to cause risings against him by the people in mortem destructionem of the King Your Lordships are pleased to consider that in all these Cases the Treason was for words onely words by private persons and in a more private manner but once spoken and no more onely amongst the people to excite them against the King My Lords here are words Counsels more than words and actions too not onely to dis-affect the people to the King but the King likewise towards the people not once but often not in private but in places most publique not by a private person but by a Counsellor of State a Lord Lieutenant a Lord President a Lord Deputy of Ireland 1 To his Majesty That the Parliament had denied to supply him a slander upon all the Commons of England in their affections to the King and Kingdome in refusing to yeeld timely supply for the necessities of King and Kingdome 2 From thence That the King was loose and absolved from rules of government and was to doe every thing that power would admit My Lords more cannot be said they cannot be aggravated whatever I should say would be in diminution 3 Thence You have an Army in Ireland you may imploy to reduce this Kingdome To counsell a King not to love his people is very unnaturall it goes higher to hate them to malice them in his heart the highest expressions of malice to destroy them by warre These coales they were cast upon his Majesty they were blowne they could not kindle in that brest Thence my Lords having done the utmost to the King hee goes to the people At York the Country being meâ— together for Justice at the open Assizes upon the Bench he tels them speaking of the
Justices of the Peace that they were all for Law nothing but Law but they should find that the Kings little finger should be heavier than the loines of the Law They shall find my Lords who speakes this to the people a Privie Counsellour this must be either to traduce his Majesty to the people as spoken from him or from himselfe who was Lord Lieutenant of the County and President intrusted with the forces and Justice of those parts that he would imploy both this way add my Lords to his words there the exercising of an arbitrary and vast Jurisdiction before he had so much as Instructions or colour of warrant Thence we carry him into Ireland there he represented by his place the sacred person of his Majesty 1 There at Dublyn the principall City of that Kingdome whither the Subjects of that Countrey came for Justice in an Assembly of Peeres and others of greatest ranke upon occasion of a speech of the Recorder of that City touching their Franchises and Legall Rights he tels them that Ireland was a conquered Nation and that the King might doe with them what he pleased 2 Not long after in the Parliament 10. Car. in the Chaire of State in full Parliament againe That they were a conquered Nation and that they were to expect Lawes as from a Conquerour before The King might doe with them what he would now They were to expect it that he would put this power of a Conquerour in execution The Circumstances are very considerable in full Parliament from himselfe in Cathedra to the representative body of the whole Kingdome The occasion adds much when they desire the benefit of the Lawes and that their Causes and Suites might be determined according to Law and not by himselfe at his will and pleasure upon paper Petitions 3 Upon like occasion of pressing the Lawes and Statutes That hee would make an Act of Counsell board in that Kingdome as binding as an Act of Parliament 4. He made his words good by his actions assumed and exercised a boundlesse and lawlesse Jurisdiction over the lives persons and estates of his Majesties Subjects procured judgement of death against a Peere of that Realme commanded another to be hanged this was accordingly executed both in times of high Peace without any processe or colour of Law 5. By force for a long time he seised the yarne and flax of the Subjects to the starving and undoing of many thousands besides the Tobacco businesse and many Monopolies and unlawfull Taxes forced a new Oath not to dispute his Majesties royall commands determined mens estates at his owne will and pleasure upon paper Petitions to himselfe forced Obedience to these not onely by Fines and Imprisonment but likewise by the Army sessed Souldiers upon the refusers in a hostile manner 6. Was an Incendiary of the warre betweene the two Kingdomes of England and Scotland My Lords we shall leave it to your Lordships Judgements whether these words Counsells and Actions would not have beene a sufficient Evidence to have proved an Inditement drawne up against him as those before mentioned and many others are That they were spoken and done to the intent to withdraw the Kings heart from the people and the affections of the people from the King that they might leave the King and afterwards rise up against him to the destruction of the King if so here is a compassing of the Kings death within the words of the Statute of the five and twentieth yeare of Edward the third and that warranted by many former judgements My Lords I have now done with the three Treasons within the The fourth generall Head Statute of the five and twentieth of Edward the third I proceed to the fourth upon the Statute of the eighteenth yeare of Henry the sixt Chapter the third in Ireland I shall make bold to read the words to your Lordships That no Lord nor any other of what condition soever he be shall bring or lead hoblers kerves or hooded men nor any other people nor horses to lie on horseback or on foot upon the Kings Subjects without their good wills and consent but upon their owne costs and without hurt doing to the Commons and if any so doe he shall be judged as Traitor 1. The Argument that hath been made concerning the Person That it extends not to the King and therefore not to him weighs nothing with your Lordships Rex non habet in regne parem from the greatnesse of his office to argue himselfe into the same impossibility with his sacred Majesty of being uncapable of High-Treason it 's an Offence no reason The words in the Statute No Lord nor any other of what condition soever he be includes every Subject In Trinity Terme in the three and thirtieth yeare of Henry the eighth in the Kings Bench Leonard Lord Gray having immediately before been Lord Deputy of Ireland is attainted of High-Treason and judgement given against him for letting divers Rebels out of the Castle of Dublin and discharging Irish hostages and pledges that had been given for securing the Peace for not punishing one that said the King was an Heretique I have read the whole Record ther 's not one thing laid to his charge but was done by him as Lord Leivetenant Hee had the same Plea with my Lord of Strafford That these things were no adhering to the Kings Enemies but were done for reasons of State That he was not within those words of the Statute of the five and twentieth yeare of Edward the third himselfe being Lord Lievtenant there they cost his life Obj. 2. It hath been said That the Souldiers sessed upon the Subjects by him were not such persons as are intended by that Statute Hoblers Kerves and hoodedmen these rascall people Answ My Lords they were the names given to the Souldiary of those times Hoblers horsemen the other the foot but the words of the Statute goe further Nor any other people neither horse nor foot his Lordship sessed upon them both horse and foot Object 3. The Statute extends only to them that leade or bring Savill led them my Lord onely gave the warrant Answ To that I shall say onely thus plus peccat author quam actor by the rule of Law agentes consentientes pari plectuntur panâ if consent much more a command to doe it makes the commander a Traitor If there bee any Treason within this Statute my Lord of Strafford is guilty It hath been therefore said That this Statute like Goliah's sword hath been wrapt up in a cloth and laid behind the doore that it hath never been put in execution Answ My Lords if the Clerk of the Crown in Ireland had certified your Lordships that upon search of the Judgements of Attainders in Ireland he could not finde that any man had been attainted upon this Statute your Lordships had had some ground to believe it yet it is onely my Lord of Straffords affirmation Besides your Lordships know that an act of
Lords That nothing might be left here for an exception that is that in treasons felonies and other capitall offences concerning life the Irish lawes are not the same as here Therefore it is enacted in a Parliament held in England in the 14. yeere of Edward the second it is not in print neither but is in the Parliament booke That the Lawes concerning life and member shall be the same in Ireland as in England And that no exception might yet remaine in a Parliament held in England the fifth yeere of Edward the third It is enacted quod una eadem Lex fiat tam Hibernicis quam Anglicis This act is enrolled in the Patent rolls of the fifth yeere of Ed. the 3. part 1. membr 25. The Irish therefore receiving their Lawes from hence they send their Students at Law to the Innes of Courts in England where they receive their degree and of them and of the common Lawyers of this kingdome are the Judges made The petitions have been many from Ireland to send from hence some Judges more learned in the Lawes then those they had there It hath been frequent in cases of difficulty there to send some times to the Parliament here sometimes to the King by advice from the Judges here to send them resolutions of their doubts Amongst many I 'll cite your Lordships onely one because it is in a case of treason upon an Irish statute and therefore full to this point By a Statute there made in the fifth yeere of Edward the fourth there is provision made for such as upon suggestions are committed to prison for Treason that the party committed if he can procure 24. Compurgators shall be bailed and let out of prison Two Citizens of Dublin were by a grand Jury presented to have committed Treason They desired the benefit of this statute that they might be let out of prison upon tender of their Compurgators The words of the Statute of the 5. yeere of Ed. the fourth in Ireland being obscure the Judges there not being satisfied what to doe sent the case over to the Queene desired the opinion of the Judges here which was done accordingly The Judges here sent over their opinion which I have out of the Book of Justice Anderson one of the Judges consulted withall The Judges here delivered opinion upon an Irish Statute in case of Treason If it be objected That in this case the Judges here did not judge upon the party their opinions were only ad informandam conscientiam of the Judges in Ireland that the judgement belonged to the Judges there My Lords with submission this and the other Authorities prove that for which they were cited that is That no absurdity no failer of justice would ensue if this great Judicatory should judge of Treason so made by an Irish Statute The common Law the rule of judging upon an Irish Statute the Pleas of the Crowne for things of life and death are the same here and there This is all that hath yet beene offered For the second point That England hath no power of Judicature for things done in Ireland My Lords the constant practice of ages proves the contrary Writs of errour in Pleas of the Crowne as well as in civill causes have in all Kings reignes been brought here even in the inferiour Courts of Westminster Hall upon judgements given in the courts of Ireland The practice is so frequent and so well known as that I shall cite none of them to your Lordships no president will I beleeve bee produced to your Lordships that ever the case was remanded back againe into Ireland because the question rose upon an Irish Statute or custome Object But it will bee said That writs of errour are onely upon a failer of justice in Ireland and that suits cannot originally bee commenced here for things done in Ireland because the Kings writ runs not in Ireland Answ This might be a good plea in the Kings Bench and inferiour Courts at Westminster Hall the question is whether it bee so in Parliament The Kings writ runs not within the County Palatine of Chester and Durham nor within the five Ports neither did it in Wales before the union in Henry the eighth's time after the Lawes of England were brought into Wales in King Edward the first 's time suits were not originally commenced in Westminster Hall for things done in them yet this never excluded the Parliament suits for life lands and goods within those jurisdictions are determinable in Parliament as well as in any other parts of the Realme Ireland as appeares by the statute of the thirtieth yeere of Henry the third before mentioned is united to the Crowne of England By the Statute of the eight and twenty yeere of Henry the sixth in Ireland it is declared in these words That Ireland is the proper Dominion of England and united to the Crown of England which Crowne of England is of it selfe and by it self fully wholly and entirely endowed with all power and authority sufficient to yeeld to the subjects of the same full and plenary remedy in all debates and suits whatsoever By the Statute of the 33. yeere of Henry the eighth the first Chapter when the Kings of England first assumed the title of King of Ireland it is there enacted That Ireland still is to bee held as a Crowne annexed and united to the Crowne of England So that by the same reason from this that the Kings writ runs not in Ireland it might aswell be held that the Parliament cannot originally hold plea of things done within the County Palatine of Chester and Durham nor within the five Ports and Wales Ireland is part of the Realme of England as appeares by those statutes as well as any of them This is made good by constant practice In all the Parment rolls from the first to the last there are receivers and tryers of petitions appointed for Ireland For the Irish to come so farre with their petitions for justice and the Parliament not to have cognizance when from time to time they had in the beginning of the Parliament appointed receivers and tryers of them is a thing not to be presumed An appeale in Ireland brought by William Lord Vescye against Iohn Fitz Thomas for treasonable words there spoken before any Judgement given in the case there was removed into the Parliament in England and there the defendant acquitted as appeares in the Parliament pleas of the two and twentieth yeere of Edward the first The suits for lands offices and goods originally begun here are many and if question grew upon matter in fact a Jury usually ordered to try it and the verdict returned into Parliament as in the case of one Balliben in the Parliament of the five and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first If doubt arose upon a matter tryable by Record a writ went to the Officers in whose custody the Record remained to certifie the Record as was in the case of Robert Bagot the
away by the Statute of 25. E. 3. 1. H. 4. or 1. Q. M. or any of them My Lord to say they be taken away by the Stat. of 25. E. 3. is to speak against the direct words and scope of that Statute In it there 's this clause That because many other like cases of treason might fall out which are not there declared therefore it is enacted That if any such case come before the Judges they shall not proceed to Judgement till the case be declared in Parliament whether it ought to be adjudged treason or not These words and the whole scope of that Statute shewes that it was not the meaning to take away any treasons that were so before but only to regulate the jurisdiction and manner of triall Those that were single and certaine Acts as conspiring the Kings death levying war counterfeiting the money or great Seale killing a Judge these are left to the ordinary Courts of justice the others not depending upon single Acts but upon constructions and necessary inferences they thought it unfit to give inferiour Courts so great a latitude here as too dangerous to the subject those they strained to Parliaments This statute was the security of the subject made with such wisedome as all the succeeding ages have approved it It hath often passed through the furnace but like gold hath lost little or nothing The statute of 1. H. 4 cap. 10. is in these words Whereas in the Parliament held the 21 yeere of Richard the 2. divers pains of treasons were ordained insomuch that no man did know how to behave himselfe to doe say or speake It is accorded that in no time to come any treason be adjudged otherwise then it was ordained by the Statute of 25. E. 3. It hath been said to what end is this statute made if it takes not away the common Law treasons remaining after the statute of 25. Edward 3. There be two maine things which this statute doth First it takes away for the future all the treasons made by any statute since 25. E. 3. to 1. H. 4. even to that time For in respect that by another Act in that Parliament the statute of 21. R. 2. was repealed it will not be denied but that this statute repeals more treasons then these of 21. R. 2. it repeals all statute treasons but those in 25. E. 3. Secondly It not only takes away the statute treasons but likewise the declared treasons in Parliament after 25. E. 3. as to the future After declaration in Parliament the inferior Courts might judge these treasons for the declaration of a treason in Parliament after it was made was sent to the inferior Courts that toties quoties the like case fell out they might proceed therein the subject for the future was secured against these so that this statute was of great use By the very words of it it still refers all treasons to the provision of 25. E. 3. it leaves that entire and upon his old bottome The statute of 1. Q. M. cap. 1. saith That no offences made treason by any Act of Parliament shall thenceforth be taken or adjudged to be treason but onely as be declared and expressed to be treason by the statute of 25. E. 3. concerning treason or the declaration of treason and no others And further provides that no pains of death penalty or forfeiture in any wise shall ensue for committing any treason other then such as be in the statute of 25. E. 3. ordained and provided any Acts of Parliament or any declaration or matter to the contrary in any wise notwithstanding By the first part of this statute onely offences made treason by Act of Parliament are taken away the Common Law treasons are no way touched The words and no others referre still to offences made treason by Act of Parliament they restrain not to the treasons onely particularly mentioned in the statute of 25. E. 3. but leaue that statute entire as to the Common-law treason as appears by the words immediatly foregoing By the second part for the pains and forfeitures of treasons if it intend onely the punishment of treason or if it intend both treason and punishment yet all is referred to the provision and ordinance of 25. E. 3. any Act of Parliament or other declaration or thing notwithstanding It saith not other then such penalties or treasons as are expressed and declared in the statute of 25. E. 3. that might perhaps have restrained it to those that are particularly mentioned No it refers all treasons to the general ordination and provision of that statute wherein the Common law-treasons are expresly kept on foot If it be askt what good this statute doth if it take not away the the Common-law treasons 1. It takes away all the treasons made by Act of Parliament not only since the first of H. 4. which were many but all before 1. H. 4. even untill 25. E. 3. by expresse words 2. By expresse words it takes away all declared treasons if any such had been made in Parliament these for the future are likewise taken away so that whereas it might have been doubted whether the statute of 1. H. 4. took away any treasons but those of 21. and 22. R. 2. this clears it both for treasons made by Parliament or declared in Parliament even to the time of taking the statute This is of great use of great security to the subject so that as to to what shall be treason and what not the statute of 25. E. 3. remains entire and so by consequence the treasons at the Common Law Only my Lords it may be doubted whether the manner of the manner of the Parliamentary proteedings be not altered by the statute of 1. Hen. 4. the 17. cap. and more fully in the Parliament roll num 144. that is whether since that statute the Parliamentary power of declaration of treasons whereby the inferiour Courts received jurisdiction be not taken away and restrained only to Bill that so it might operate no further than to that particular contained in the Bill that so the Parliamentary declarations for after times should be kept within the Parliament it selfe and be extended no further Since 1. H. 4. we have not found any such declarations made but all Attainders of treason have been by Bill If this be so yet the common-Law-treasons still remaining there is one and the same ground of reason and equity since 1. H. 4. for passing of a Bill of treason as was before for declaring it without Bill Herein the Legislative power is not used against my Lord of Strafford in the Bill it is only the jurisdiction of the Parliament But my Lords because that either through my mistaking of the true grounds and reasons of the Commons or my not pressing of them with apt arguments and presidents of former times or that perchance your Lordships from some other reasons and authorities more swaying with your Lordships judgements then these from them may possible be
of a contrary and dubious opinion concerning these treasons either upon the statutes of 25. E. 3. and 18. H. 6. or at the Common Law My Lords if all these five should faile they have given me further in command to declare to your Lordships some of their reasons why they conceive that in this case the meere Legaslative power may be exercised Their reasons are taken from these three grounds 1. From the nature and quality of the offence 2. From the frame and constitution of the Parliament wherein this Law is made 3. From practices and usages of former times The horridnesse of the offence in endeavouring the overthrowing the Lawes and present government hath been fully opened to your Lordships heretofore The Parliament is the representation of the whole Kingdome wherein the King as Head your Lordships as the more noble and the Commons the other members are knit together in one body politick This dissolves the arteries and ligaments that hold the Body together the Lawes He that takes away the Lawes takes not away the allegeance of one subject alone but of the whole Kingdome It was made Treason by the statute of 13. El. for her time to affirme That the Lawes of the Realme doe not bind the descent of the Crowne no Law no descent at all No Lawes no Peerage no ranks or degrees of men the same condition to all It 's treason to kill a Judge upon the Bench this kills not Iudicem sed Iudicium He that borrowed Apelles and gave bond to return again Apelles the Painter sent him home after he had cut off his right hand his bond was broken Apelles was sent but not the Painter There be twelve men but no law there 's never a Judge amongst them It s felony to embezill any one of the judiciall records of the Kingdome this at once sweepes them all away and from all It s treason to counter feit a twenty shilling peece here 's a counterfeiting of the Law we can call neither the counterfeit nor true coyne our owne It s treason to counterfeit the great Seale for an acre of land no property hereby is left to any land at all Nothing treason now either against King or Kingdome no Law to punish it My Lords If the question were asked in Westminster Hall whether this were a crime punishable in starre-chamber or in the Kings Bench by fine or imprisonment they would say it went higher If whether felony they would say That 's for an offence onely against the life or goods of some one or few persons It would I beleeve be answered by the Judges as it was by the chiefe Justice Thirning in 21. R. 2. That though he could judge the case treason there before him yet if he were a Peere in Parliament he would so adjudge it My Lords if it be too big for those Courts we hope it s in the right way here 2. The second consideration is from the frame and constitution of the Parliament the Parliament is the great body politicke it comprehends all from the King to the begger if so my Lords as the naturall so this body it hath power over it selfe and every one of the members for the preservation of the whole It s both the Physitian and the patient if the body be distempered it hath power to open a veine to let out the corrupt blood for curing of it selfe if one member be poysoned and gangren'd it hath power to cut it off for the preservation of the rest But my Lords it hath been often inculcated that Law-makers should imitate their supreme Law-giver who commonly warnes before he strikes the Law was promulged before the judgement of death for gathering of sticks no Law no transgression My Lords to this the rule of Law is Frustra Legis auxilium invocat qui in Legem committit from the Lex talionis he that would not have had others to have law why should he have any himselfe why should not that be done to him that himself would have done to others It 's true we give law to Hares and Deers because they be beasts of Chase it was never accounted either cruelty or foule play to knock Foxes and Wolves on the head as they can be found because these be beasts of prey The Warrener sets traps for Powlcats and other Vermine for preservation of the Warren Further my Lords most dangerous diseases if not taken in time they kill Errors in great things as Warre and Marriage they allow no time for repentance it would have been too late to make a law when there had been no law My Lords for further answer to this objection he hath offended a law a law within the endeavouring to subvert the lawes and polity of the State wherein he lived which had so long and with such faithfulnesse protected his Ancestry himselfe and his whole family it was not malum quia prohibitum it was malum in se against the dictates of the dullest conscience against the light of nature they not having the law were a law to themselves Besides this he knew a law without that the Parliament in cases of this nature had potestatem vitae necis Nay he well knew that he offended the promulged and ordinary rules of law Crimes against Law have been proved have been confessed so that the question is not de culpâ sed de poenâ what degree of punishment those faults deserve we must differ from him in opinion that twenty felonies cannot make a treason if it be meant of equality in the use of the Legislative power for hee that deserves death for one of these felonies alone deserves a death more painfull and more ignominious for all together Every felony is punished with losse of life lands and goods a felony may be aggravated with those circumstances as that the Parliament with good reason may adde to the circumstances of punishment as was done in the case of John Hall in the Parliament H. 4. who for a barbarous murder committed upon the Duke of Glocester stifling him between two feather-beds at Calice was adjudged to be hanged drawn and quartered Batteries by Law are punishable only by fine and single dammages to the party wounded In the Parliament held in 1. H. 4. cap. 6. one Savadge committed a Battery upon one Chedder servant to Sir Iohn Brook a Knight of the Parliament for Somersetshire It 's there enacted that he shall pay double dammages and stand convicted if he render not himselfe by such a time The manner of proceedings quickned the penalty doubled the circumstances were considered it concerned the Common-wealth it was Battery with breach of priviledge of Parliament This made a perpetuall Act no warning to the first offender and in the Kings Bench as appeares by the book case of 9. H. 4. the first leafe double dammages were recovered My Lords in this of the Bill the offence is high and generall against the King and the Common-wealth against all and the best of all