Selected quad for the lemma: judgement_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
judgement_n	king_n	lord_n	temporal_a	1,548	5	9.3331	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A27068	Whether parish congregations be true Christian churches and the capable consenting incumbents, be truly their pastors, or bishops over their flocks ... : written by Richard Baxter as an explication of some passages in his former writings, especially his Treatise of episcopacy, misunderstood and misapplied by some, and answering the strongest objections of some of them, especially a book called, Mr. Baxters judgment and reasons against communicating with the parish assemblies, as by law required, and another called, A theological dialogue, or, Catholick communion once more defended, upon mens necessitating importunity / by Richard Baxter.	Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.	1684 (1684)	Wing B1452; ESTC R16512	73,103	142

or disowned by most of the Land and conformists usually profess another sense Upon this very reason I write this short Debate to avoid the injuring of the Re●ders of my Writings about the English Diocesan frame XLII The Book I animadvert on is called Mr. Baxters Judgment and Reasons against c●mmunicating with the Parish Assemblies as by Law r●qu●red Ans I am for communicating with them in the essentials of Christianity and Communion as the Law requireth if I understand it because the Law of Christ requireth it But in whatever circumstances any law shall ●e against Christs Law I communicate not according to such a Law XLIII All that he citeth out of my writings p. 2 3 is against his cause which he thought was for it as I have proved What he citeth § ● the first is unproved the second I own and is nothing for him XLIV P. 5. And oft throughout he alledgeth that I make the Par●shes not compleat particular Churches Ans No wonder those may be true churches that are not compleat in integrity or degree will you separate from all churches that are not so compleat I know not of any strictly compleat on earth many true churches are incompleat as to integrals much more as to ornament order and strength And all particular churches are less compleat than the universal and that on earth alas how far from compleat Believe him not Reader that R.B. is against your joining with all churches which he proveth to be not compleat yea or to be very faulty and defective in point of ●oliness Love or Order of Ministers or people But they are true churches in essentiality tho parts of a Diocess as that is of a Nation not meer parts of the lowest single Church P. 6. § 2. What I say of suspending the power is not nulling it in the office and what I say of practice by canons and visitation Articles is not said of Law much less of all the Churches and Pastors consent to them and what I say of misgoverning in exercise is not said of a national profession that so it ought to b● P. 7. He citeth my words further against restraint of the Ministers power But 1. That nulleth not Christs Institution of it 2. More Power is given As 1. To deny the Sacrament as is said to all that are not ready to be confirmed 2. To deny absolution to all the sick who do not humbly and earnestly desire it c. And the Power of doing it by Ministerial Application of Gods Word is all that is properly ministerial though they take all cogent power from us Mans taking away our power is but hindring the exercise quantum in se but the Power is of Christ which they cannot take away P. 8. They cannot suspend our commanded act but only our doing it with liberty and advantage I can refuse the Sacrament to the unfit tho it be to my trouble P. 9. I say there are many additions to the old conformity that make the case harder to Clergy and Laity than of old But I there maintain that none of these additions do make Parochial Communion now pleaded for unl●wful XLV P. 10. He saith If we might not endeavour to restore the old Prelacy then not to give strength to it being restored And say others lest we be perjured having sworn and covenanted against it Ans This needeth impartial Consideration They say That our covenant engagement maketh that unlawful to us which was lawful to the old Nonconformists But 1. Did not Gods Law make it unlawful to them or to us before Then you think we covenanted to do somewhat th●t ●ods law bound us not to if so it was superstition and is not adding our self-made vows and duties as bad as adding Ceremonies 2. Yea they then thought Brownism a sin and if they mistook not we cannot by covenanting turn sin into duty 3. Ad hominem the Author professeth Independency And I suppose he knoweth that the chief of that way did some write to prove that the Covenant bound not at last and some likened it to an Almanack out of date and some said it was a League which was dissolved and so bound not and how great a party thought that it bound them not from pulling down both King and many Parliaments and conquering Scotland res ips● loqunta ●st And even King and Parliament Lord Spiritual Temporal and Commons have declared it their judgment in the Corporation Act and Declaration which bindeth all the Corporation Officers to declare without exception that there is no obligation on them or any other from the Oath called the solemn League and Covenant It 's true indeed that the Presbyterian Ministers and Soldiers and People thought that this Covenant bound them to restore the King and said Let us keep our covenant and trust God with the issue and G. Monks Army Officers in their address to him glory in it not doubting but the King would find such his best subjects but the Law that bindeth men to declare that there is no obligation on them or any other tells them they did err when they thought it bound them to restore the King Whether this be true or not I meddle not with but by this you see that there are few in the land of any party save Presbyterians that can charge us with Covenant breaking herein for going to the Parish Churches without contradicting themselves or guides but this is but ad Hominem 4. But what words be they in the Covenant that we violate did it mean If power restore the Liturgy and Bishops and will suffer no other Churches we will rather all give over all worship of God in churches than we will join with them This were a wicked Oath and could no more oblige us than to give over all family worship I hope few sober men ever so sware 5. I so little consent to the corporation declaration that I do believe that I was bound by that vow to do as I have done in going to the Parish Churches For 1. I am bound by it against Prophaneness and all that 's c●ntrary to sound Doctrine and Godliness But to forsake all publick Worship of God without necessity is prophaneness and c●ntrary to Godliness 2. I am bound in my place and calling to oppose Popery But to tell all the Protestants in England that they sin if they forsake not all the Parish Churches is to pre●are them for the reception of Popery seeing that will be the National Religion which possesseth those Parish Churches By deserting our Garisons we shall deliver them up 3. I am bound by it against Schism and I am not able to excuse it from being Schism if under all the obligations that now lye upon us I should by my constant avoiding the Parish Churches even unto sufferings declare that I take their Communion for absolutely unlawful and so slander so many Churches of Christ and seduce others with me into the same error and sin This would be

what Law maketh them whatever we think Ans Are not Churches formally relative societies what maketh them such but thoughts and wills of men expressed Gods mind exprest in his Institutions is his premised consent our consequent obedient consent maketh Christians Pastors and Churches If a Law cannot make the Parish consent to null Christs Officers and Churches it doth not null them to them If a Law say All marriages shall be void unless the Bishop remarry them This maketh them not void to any that consent not but say we stand to the valid marriage we had What doth another mans consent do to constitute me a Christian or Church-member except Parents for Infants And if my thoughts and consent put nothng in esse then the thoughts and consents of the conforming Clergy alters not their Churches and what then is that constituting cause you talk of Is it only the law for shame say not so Gods own Law as commanding us to be Christians Pastors or Churches maketh us not such without consent And can mans Law both null Gods Law and make us of what species it doth but bid us be without our consent XXX But here our Disputants think they expose me to derision What Do I intimate that one and the same Congregation may be two Churches of different species Ans I think to be such by open profession is disorderly and unusual But I think he that denieth this is unfit to deride the ignorance of another 1. If the people in one Kingdom may be in specie two Kingdoms the people of one Assembly may be two Churches but Bishop Bedle in his printed Letter said that Ireland was then two Kingdoms the King being Sovereign to some and the Pope to other And I think Hungary is so now between the Emperor and Turks 2. When Paul ordinarily held his assemblies in the Jewish Synagogues where half were Infidels and half Christians before he separated his Christians from them I think they were two Churches 3. If Independents had leave to meet in the Parish churches where the Parish Minister and their own Minister should preach by turns and the Parish only heard theirs as a lay preacher or none of their Pastor and so they heard the Parish Preachers I doubt not but they would be distinct church If one Parish church have two Pastors and one of them be professedly for an essential subjection to the Pope and the other against it and half the people of one mind and half of the other I think they are two Churches in one place If those Anabaptists who take none but the re-baptized for Church-members should with their Pastors join with Independents in worship tho esteeming them no churches I suppose you think they would be distinct churches in one place But I think none of this is the case of the churches that I join with for I suppose they null not Christs species of Ministers to themselves or me But if they did it to themselves that would not do it to me XXXI Obj. But one and the same Minister cannot be of two species and therefore relation to him cannot constitute distinct Churches Ans 1. One and the same man cannot be a Minister of Christ and no Minister of Christ so much is true nor of any two inconsistent species But if you will call any circumstantial difference a distinct species that will no● hinder the consistence The same man may be Christs Minister and the Kings Chaplain or a Dean or Pre●endary or a Diocesan Bishop or Subject to a Diocesan such Bishops as Chrysostom Augustine Ambrose 〈◊〉 Parke● Grindal Ush●r Davenant c and their Chaplains did not cease to be Christs Ministers 2 Relation to one of these men may make two sorts of consistent churche● if the same man have a Parish and a Diocess as the German superintendents have and many other Bishops the warrantableness we are not now disputing 3. Yea one and the same Parish Minister may be Pastor of two Churches in one Assembly If he openly profess himself Orthodox the people that so own him are a church and if he secretly to a party of them profess himself an Anabaptist or a Papist and they unite with him as such they are another church such as it is Vespae habent favos marcionitae ecclesias Tertul. XXXII Obj. But the grand Objection is No man can be a Pastor of Christ against his will The Parish Ministers have all by conforming renounced the essence of the Christian Ministry and subscribed and sworn this renunciat●● by subjecting themselves to Diocesans and swearing never to endeavour any alteration of the Diocesan Government and the Vestries who represent the churches have sworn the same and you have of●en said that the Diocesan form of Government 1. Deposeth the Parish Bishops and maimeth the Ministry 2. Dep●seth the Parish Churches 3. And maketh Parish Discipline impossible Ans It is impossible to write that which no man can misunderstand and make an ill use of I have oft told you 1. That I am in doubt whether Arch-Bishops as Successors of the Apostles only in the ordinary continued part of their Office be jure divino or not 2. That Congrational Bishops over Presbyters being ejusdem ordinis are an old venerable and lawful humane Institution 3. That Congregational Bishops only over the Laity are all Presbyters as such and of Christs Institution 4. Hereupon I have oft distinguished Diocesans into two sorts 1. Those that are but the Governors of true particular Churches that depose them not but Rule them by the word perswasively These are called Bishops being really Arch-Bishops These I never charged of the Consequents forenamed And if the King make them Cogent Magistrates also I will obey them I take the judgment of the Church of England manifest in Ordination Liturgy Articles c. to be for such Diocesans only tho I vastly dissent from many things in the Canons by which and the Mode in which some exercise their Government 2. The other sort is the Innovators form of Diocesan Government which hold that there is no Church without a Bishop and no Bishop but Diocesans either Bishop of Laity or Presbyters and so that the Parish Churches are no Churches but part of the lowest sort of true Political Churches These I take to be Super-conformists yea Nonconformists and Dissenters from the Church of England tho they may strive to get the name of the Church to themselves Now what I say of these Innovating Nonconformists and their designs and attempts our mistaking Separatists say I speak of the Laegal Church frame and so of all the Bishops and Parish-Churches And I see no hope of delivering the Church of God from the trouble of incogitant confident erroneous Dissenters that are not able to distinguish XXXIII I further answer this great Objection being concerned in Consc●ence to do it when men father their mistakes and Separation on me 1. The Parish-Ministers that I joyn with and I think the most that