of these several Offenders But admit they had particularly impeached every one of them which is more then to desire such a Delinquent may be brought to his Tryal and that the Lords would do Justice on him as they find Cause and much more then onely to design the Crime and leave it to the Lords to find out the Persons For in an Impeachment they examine the matter and first find themselves the Party to be guilty and then they follow it against him and prove him so before the Lords Doth this at all give them any part in the Judgment or must it not necessarily be understood that the Judicature is naturally and constantly lodged with the Lords and the House of Commons part then is onely to bring the Offender before the Lords to be tryed This very Record of the Proceedings in the Lords House against Gomeniz and Weston shews it so to be and proves the Judicature of the House of Peers as strongly as can be It runs thus Item par la ou supplié est par les Communes que tous ceux qunt rendus perdus Chatels ou Villes par dela par uray defaut des Capitaines puissent estre a Response a Cest Parlement selon leur desert fortement punis par agard des Seigneurs Baronage eschievant le malueis ensample qils ont donnez as autres qui sont Gardeins de villes Chatels Commandé est a Sire Alein de Buxhall Conestable del Tour de Londres qe y face venir deuant les Seigneurs en Parlement a Westminster le Vendredy 27 Jour de Novembre lán susdit Jehan sire de Gomeniz William de Weston c. Item Whereas it is prayed by the Commons that all those who have delivered up and lost Castles and Towns on the other side of the Sea by their own default being Captains of them may be put to their answer at this Parliament and according to their desert be severely punished by the award of the Lords and Baronage for the eschewing of the evil example which they have given to other Guardians of Towns and Castles Command is given to Sir Allen de Buxhall Constable of the Tower of London to bring before the Lords in Parliament at Westminster upon Friday the 27th of November of the aforesaid year John Lord of Gomeniz and William of Weston c. Here the Commons desire that all such may be severely punished by the award of the Lords and Baronage So it is their Award and their Judgment must punish and this by the Commons confession And you may observe further that the Commons do not make any mention of any particular Person but the Lords they command Sir Allein de Buxhall to bring Gomeniz and Weston before them such a day But it is easie to trace the Author of the Pamphlet where he was led out of the way and that was by an other Pamphlet of the Priviledges of the Baronage which goes under Mr. Seldens Name but hath as many mistakes in it as leaves and there indeed it is said p. 15. That at the supplication of the Commons that all those who have rendred Castles be put to their Answer and that Allen Buxhall Constable of the Tower do bring before the Lords such a day Gomeniz and Weston to answer the Articles which there shall be preferred for the said Cause they were so brought c. But the Record it self you see is otherwise which that Pamphleter it seems never read And for what he further would infer to make that and all other Judgements at the prosecution of the Commons admit they had been so which these were not Acts of Parliament is a Fancy so ridiculous as it is not worth the answering which makes no difference betwixt an Act of Attainder that passeth both Houses and afterwards hath the Kings Assent as all other Laws have which is an effect of the Legislative Power in which either House hath an equal Vote and a proceeding before the Lords against a Criminous Person in a Judicial way wherein the Commons have nothing to do as to the judging of him But one thing more in that Pamphlet I cannot let pass which is in p. 12. The words are these viz. For the Kings giving Judgment in Parliament with the Lords Assent I do confess Judgements there ought to be properly and punctually entred as given Par nostre Seigneur le Roy que est Souverain Juge en tous Cas par les Seigneurs Spirituels Temporels ouel Assent des Communes de la Terre ou a leur Petition Nenny par les Seigneurs Temporels Seulement That is As given by our Lord the King who is Sovereign Judge in all Causes and by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal with the assent of the Commons of the Land or upon their Petition and not by the Lords Temporal alone And for this he quotes in the Margent Rot. Part. apud Leicester II. 16. which he delivers so Magisterially as any man would swear he had good Authority for what he said and that his old French was some old Oracle of Parliament And I must confess upon the first reading of this I was at a stand finding here such a positive Precept contrary to what I had still believed both in the Affirmative it must be by the Kings and Lords with the Assent of the Commons and Negative not by the Lords alone But when I came to examine this Assertion by the Record I found there was a foul mistake whether purposely or ignorantly I judge not For what was delivered by Counsel to bolster up his Clients pretentious is there produced as the Rule of the Court And an Error assigned to reverse a former Judgment which is but the Allegation of a Lawyer that draws up his Clients Plea is made an Argument to controul and condemn a constant usage of the House of Peers It was in the Case of the Earl of Salisbury Who brought a Writ of Error in the Parliament 2. H. 5. to reverse the Judgment given 2. H. 4. n. 30. by the Lords Temporal alone with the Kings Assent by which Judgment the Earls of Kent Huntington and Salisbury and some others who had been some slain some taken in actual Rebellion by other the Kings Subjects and by them put to death without form of Law were declared attainted of Treason and their Estates forfeited For the reversal whereof Thomas the Son Earl of Salisbury amongst the Errors assigns this for one as a principal one that it was given by the Lords Temporal alone with the King whereas it should have been by the King Lords Spiritual and Temporal with the Assent of the Commons or at their Petition And what follows upon this Indeed if the Judgment had been reversed though perhaps upon some other Error for several others were assigned there might have been some colour for the Gentlemans Assertion and the Inference he would make upon it But so far from it that the Judgment
from the Ships worth and other particulars in a Schedule would have rendred alone above 20000 l sterling yearly Yet I submit that and my whole Sufferings and Concerns to your Lordships Determination in hopes That if I do not receive an adequate Recompence yet I shall by his Majesties Grace and your Lordships direction be enabled by the restoring of my Island Barella in India to reap a future benefit without the East India Companies further molestation or interruption His Majesties late Charter granted the third of April 1661. prohibiting the Company expresly to undertake any thing against any Christian Colonie setled in India before the date thereof October the 6. 1666. Signed Thomas Skinner THe Lords Referrees finding this vast disproportion between the demands and Pretences of the Petitioner and the real loss and damage which he had sustained and the Offers on the other Side of the Company for his Reparation and Satisfaction and seeing no possibility of reconciling them though much pains had been taken in endeavouring it at last resolved to report it back to the King and Councel and made their Report as followeth IN pursuance of his Majesties Order in Councel dated the three and twentieth of March last we have treated with the Governor and Company of Merchants trading into the East Indies and have heard the Councel both of the said Company and Thomas Skinner Complainant in the disquisition whereof we found the said Thomas Skinner to have suffered much wrong by the said Company and their Agents and therefore endeavoured to perswade the said Company to give satisfaction to the Petitioner but there being a great difference between the Petitioners Demands of Reparation for Damages and the Companies Offer towards the same our Mediation proved ineffectual therein As to the Island of Barella in the East-Indies claimed by the said Thomas Skinner We conceive that he ought to enjoy the same and from thence to trade into any part of the world except into England Given under Our Hands the sixth day of December 1666. Signed Gilb. Cant. Clarendon C. J. Roberts Ashley HIs Majestie upon this finding the East-India Company would be brought to no reason thought fit to recommend the business to the House of Peers to do the Petitioner Justice according to the merits of his Cause which Message was brought to the House the 19. of January 1666 by the Lord Privy Seal and all the Proceedings in Councel transmitted thither and withall a Petition from Skinner himself was presented to them setting forth the wrongs done to him by the East-India Company The House of Peers thus possessed of this business Order a Copy of Skinners Petition to be given to the Governor and Company and they to bring in their Answer to it upon Friday the 28 of January They accordingly bring in for Answer a Plea to the Jurisdiction of the House of Lords and say That the Petition is in the Nature of an Original complaint not brought by way of Appeal Bill of Review or Writ of Error nor intermixed with Priviledge of Parliament nor having Reference to any Judgement of that Court therefore offer If it will please to take any further Cognizance of that Cause And then plead over and say That the Company was incorporated by several Charters in the Reignes of Queen Elizabeth and King James and likewise by a Charter from Oliver which excluded all others not Members of the Corporation from trading in any part of the East-Indies within the limits of the said Charter and that therefore if any such Injuries were done it was by vertue of the Charter and whether Criminal or Civil they were for ever released and discharged by the Act of Oblivion The Lords upon debate of this Plea well knowing their own Right to retain even Original causes when accompanied with such Circumstances as this then before them had A poor man oppressed by potent Adversaries by a rich and numerous Society where there was a Peer of the Realm the Lord Berckley of Berckley Gentlemen of great Estates very many wealthy Merchants incorporated in one body driving on a great trade in the Indies with one joynt stock resolved to imploy that whole stock for the destruction of any man that should presume but to touch upon that trade without their leaves which was this poor mans Case in a time when he had been encouraged thereunto by a general Liberty then taken to trade in that Country who after the spoyle of his goods and Plantation there to save his life they having beset his passage by Sea was glad to expose himself to the hazard and charge of a Journey of many thousand Miles over Land to return into England that he might here endeavor to get some reparation for all those losses which that Company with their great purse and power opposed and had already made him spend that little Estate he had left and seven years attendance to prosecute that reparation without any fruite So as to go to Law with them and abide all the delayes and formalities even of the ordinary Proceedings at Law much less what such Adversaries would have raised to him he was no waies able The Lords I say knowing all this and that what was pretended of the Indemnity by the Act of Oblivion was of no validity that Act not at all intended for things of this nature betwixt party and party not relating to the Warr made no difficulty to over-rule their Plea and enter into the disquisition of the Fact and to do the poor man Justice and give Releife if they found cause for it as a work worthy of them much conducing to the administration of the publick Justice of the Kingdome and most agreable to the constant practice of that House from the very beginning of Parliaments Wherefore they appointed Tuesday the 24 of January for the Counsel of both sides to be heard at the Barr. But such art was used so many delayes cast in by the Company and their Counsel as the cause could not be brought to hearing during all that Session of Parliament At the next meeting of the Parliament in the year 1667. Skinner renued his suit and presented a Petition the 30. day of October In haec verba TO THE RIGHT HONOURABLE c. The Humble Petition c. THat in the year 1657. Private Trade being open in the East-Indies the Petitioner set forth his ship Thomas on a trading voyage to the said Indies where being arrived in 1658 he possessed himself of a Ware-house on the River side of Jamby on which his ship rode wherein he put a great part of his goods and also had a house at Jamby and goods therein and purchased of the King of Jamby the Island of Barella and built a house for habitation and had contracted for planting of Pepper and other Commodities thereon That in May 1659. the Agents of the Governour and the Company of Merchants of London trading into the East-Indies by direction of the said Governour
it is but seemingly as will be shewed upon the Examination of the Presidents themselves Whereas multitudes were produced of the exercise of their Jurisdiction and some Where the parties had desired a try all at common Law and the Lords would not grant it as that of William Paynell and Margaret his Wife in the Placita Parliamentaria of the 30 of Ed. 1. p. 231. The Case was this Margaret had been formerly the Wife of John Cameys and he yet living bad left him as she alledged with his consent and lived with Paynell as his Wife and was married to him Cameys dying Paynell and she sue for the Thirds of the Mannor of Torpell which had been the Land of Cameys It was objected on the other side That she lived in Adultery with Paynell in Cameys life time and so had forfeited her Dower They upon that desire to be tryed by their Country if Adultery or no What say the House of Peers Do they send them into the Country as is desired No Videtur Curiae quod non est necesse contra tantas tamque manifestas Evidentias Praesumptiones Probationes c. ad aliquam Inquisitionem Patriae Capiendam procedere c. Et ideo consideratum est quod praedicti Willielmus Margareta nihil Capiant per Petitionem suam sed sint in Misericordia pro falso Clamore c. This shewes that the Lords some times would retain Causes though sometimes they did dismisse them not for want of Jurisdiction but as it seemed to them convenient and their Occasions would give leave as they had or had not leasure for it from the greater Affaires of the Kingdome or that some Circumstances in the merits of a Causemade it more or less worthy of their Consideration As if one of the parties was powerfull in his Country and suspected to have an Influence upon the Juries the Lords would then some times retain a business and determine it themselves As in 3 R. 2. N. 24. The Case of John Earl of Pembroâ—k and William le Zouch Complaining that they were sued for certain Lands in York-shire by Thomas the Sonne of Sir Robert Roos of Ingmanthorp and alledge That the said Thomas sought to come to a tryall in the Country which he had gained and corrupted And therefore pray for redress and a tryall by Parliament giving this reason for it Que Ils par tels Malveis Compassemens et Procuremens en pais ne soient desheritez That they may not lose their inheritance by such wicked contrivances and practises in the Country Do the Lords then suffer it to go on to tryall in the Country No They take the matter into their own hands appoint John Knevet and John Cavendish Chief Justice and John Belknap Chief Justice of the Common Pleas to examine it and make Report to them which they did And so likewise in the Case of Pontyngdon and Courtney 4 H. 4. N. 21. Sir Phillip Courtney a great man in the Country oppresses Pontyngdon dispossesses him of his Land by force he comes to the Lords praies Pur Dieu Et en oeuure de Charite d'ordeigner remedies en cell Cas For Gods sake and as a work of charity that they would give remedy in this case Setts forth in his Petition that he had before in a Parliament held at Winchester made his complaint at which time Sir Phillip laid the Bastardy of his Father as a Barr and that the Lords Answer then was That he should have right done him and committed the business to the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury to take care of it That before the Arch-Bishop Sir Phillip and he agreed to go to a tryall upon that Issue and that there should be a sufficient Jury of the principal Knights and Esquires of the Country But that Sir Phillip had named some of those principal men and withall poor men of less sufficiency to the intent that the great men making default the poor should stand and that these poor men durst not against Sir Phillip maintain the truth les queux poures hommes n'oisent envers le dit Sir Phillip la verite dire That thereupon he Petitioned again the Lords in the next Parliament sitting at Westminster and informed them of all these Particulars whereupon they Ordered a Writ to go to the Judges of Assize of that Country commanding them to admit none to be of the Jury but such as had 40 l a year Land and those to be chosen out of the whole Country notwithstanding any usage or Challenge to the Contrary But that now Sir Phillip finding that the charge of Bastardy would not hold contriving still the wrongful disinherison of the Petitioner had started a release unduely gotten from one Thomas Pontyngdon a Parson whose heirethe Petitioner is And the Petitioner is thereby like to be ruined si il neit vostre tres Hautissime et tres excellent secours et aide if the Lords would not afford him their most High and excellent succour and help This was the effect of the Petition The Lords upon this make an Order to direct the tryall the Point in Issue to be the Bastardy that the Release should be laid aside as null and void that if the Bastardy be proved Pontyngdon shall be for ever barred to sue hereafter and if not proved but that his Father was Mulier he should then recover the Land with Costs and damages And they further Order a Writ to the Sheriff to Impannell none of the Jury that had not 40 l per annum Land So then three several times in three several Parliaments did the Lords take Cognizance of this Cause being a Common Plea for a mans Free-hold and that Originally in the first Instance not upon an appeal or Writ of Error or any of those waies to which the House of Commons would now limit them They direct the tryall the Issue the Condition and Qualification of the Jury and the Judgment and if this be not taking Cognizance of a Cause I know not what is And well was it for that poor Gentleman That the Lords had that Jurisdiction that they could take Cognizance of his Cause to give him relief then As now it was well for Skinner That the Lords took Cognizance of his Otherwise this powerfull Company had trampled him in the dirt and ruined him as that violent man Sir Phillip Courtney for so he appears to have been by several Complaints against him in the Parliaments of those times had served Pontyngdon And well will it still be for many a poor man to have such an Asylum such a City of refuge to fly unto to save himself from the violence and Oppression of power and greatness And perhaps some of those who now endeavour to lay low the House of Peers who would make it to be of no signification to have no power no Influence upon the Kingdome be as salt that hath lost its Savor only Magni Nominis Umbra a Name of Peerage without ability to help themselves or
Subjects shall commit Treason though out of the Limits of this Realm it shall be tryed in any place that the King shall appoint by Commission under the great Seal So a special Commission was to be issued for it And several other Statutes were afterwards made of the same Nature But for Trespasses as this of the East India Company against Skinner there is no Act of Parliament to authorise the Prosecution at Common Law nor I think any Book Case to warrant the practice of it Book Cases against it there are many even for Trespasses in the Isle of Jersey though within the Kings Dominions because a Venire Facias could not go thither to summon a Jury from thence Mich. 42 as Mr. Prin cites it or 41. as Sir Edw. Cook E. 3. Coram Rege rot 109. An Inhabitant of Jersey complains to the King and Councel of false Imprisonment and several Injuries done him in the Island They send this Bill of Complaint to the Judges of the Kings Bench and there the Bill is dismissed Quia compertum est saith the Record quod negotium praedictum in Curia hic terminari non potest eò quod Juratores Insulae praedictae hic venire non possunt c. Other Cases there are of the same nature And if a Fiction could not help for Jersey being part of the Kings Dominions much less could it help for Forein parts where the King had no Authority at all Yet the House of Lords hath in all times exercised Jurisdiction upon Crimes done and committed in Forein parts as well as those within the Kingdome both Treasons and other Offences As in the Cases of the Lord Latimer for the loss of St. Saviour in Normandy and Oppressions done by him in Britany 50. E. 3. n. 21. Of William de Weston for the surrender of Outherwick in Flanders 1. R. 2. n. 38. John de Gomeniz for Ardes 1. R. 2. n. 40. Pierce de Cressingham and John Spickworth for the Castle of Drinkham in Flanders 7. R. 2. n. 17. The Bishop of Norwich for not doing Service beyond Seas according to promise and as he ought to have done for delivering up Graveling to the French not mustering his Army at Calice as he should have done and not having his Number compleat n. 18. Sir William Elinsham Sir Thomas Trevit Sir Henry Ferrers Sir William de Hurnedon and Robert Fitz-Ralph for delivering strong Holds and Fortresses for Money n. 24. John Hall a Servant to the Duke of Norfolk for Murthering the Duke of Gloucester at Calice 1 H. 4. n. 11. Sir William Richill for but taking the Examination of the Duke of Gloucester at Calice 1 H. 4. n. 93. And multitudes of others who could not have been tryed by the Common Law were tryed by the House of Lords And in truth a man may say the whole Case of Skinner in every point of it was only cognisable before them However it being out of all dispute even by the Confession of the Judges That some things in it are not tryable in Westminster Hall I hope it may be thought reasonable to leave as great an extent of Power to the House of Peers which is the supreme Judicature of the Kingdome as to the Court of Chancery where the ordinary practice is to retain a Cause when there is Equity in any part of it The Lords therefore Ordered the hearing of the Cause spent several daies in it and having with much patience heard all that could be said on both sides appointed a day to consider what was fit to be done super totam materiam Upon which day after a solemn debate they came to this Resolution only in general That Thomas Skinner was to be relieved by that House And referred it to a Committee to consider what damages he had sustained by the Governour and Company trading to the East Indies and to report their Opinions what Recompence was fit to be given him for the same Whilest the Business was under the consideration of the Committee and before the House of Peers had made any Determination of it a Petition was said to be presented by the East India Company unto the House of Commons which I will set down word for word before I give it any Epithete and upon reading it I think every unprejudicate man will say one cannot give it an Epithete bad enough the Petition was thus TO THE HONOURABLE The Commons of ENGLAND in Parliament Assembled The Humble Petition of the Governour and Company of Merchants of London trading to the East Indies Humbly sheweth THat Thomas Skinner lately exhibited a Petition to the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled against your Petitioners many of which are and were Members of this Honourable House when the said Petition was exhibited for Injuries pretended to be done by your Petitioners Factors in the East Indies in seizing his Ship Goods and Money and dispossessing him of a small Island there all which Matters excepting what concerns the Island are Matters clearly determinable in his Majesties Ordinary Courts of Law as by the Judges attending their Lordships hath been resolved and reported And for the Island the same is parcel of the Dominions of a Foreign Prince and so the Right thereof only determinable by the Laws of that Prince That though the Petitioners did humbly tender a Plea to their Lordships for that the Petition was in Nature of an Original Complaint concerning Commoners only and not brought to their Lordships by Writ of Error or Bill of Review or any way of Appeal and that the Matters therein were relievable in the Courts of Westminster Hall and thereupon prayed the Judgement of that High Court whether it would please to take further Cognizance thereof Yet their Lordships have been pleased not only to give a hearing to all the Matters in the said Petition contained but have denied to gran◠the Petitioners a Commission or so much a◠time to send for their Witnesses now inhabiting upon the place where the Injuries were pretended to be done and without whos◠Testimony it was impossible for the Petitioners to make their Defence That upon the said hearing their Lordships were further pleased to appoint a Committee to assess damages against your Petitioners which Committee is now proceeding thereon accordingly whereby several Members of this Honourable House who are of the said Company as well as others your Petitioners may be highly detrimented All which proceedings as your Petitioners humbly submit to your Honourable Judgements are against the Laws and Statutes of this Nation and Custome of Parliament In tender Consideration whereof and for as much as these unusual and extraordinary Proceedings of their Lorships are not only grievous to your Petitioners at present but may also be a President of ill Consequence to all the Commons of England hereafter and for as much as your Petitioners have no way of Relief in this Case otherwise than by making their humble Addresses to this Honourable
a desire to relieve them But secondly we must distinguish between a Fact not being a Crime in the eye of the Law which is neither Malum in se nor Malum prohibitum and when the Fact it self being odious and punishable by all Laws of God and Man only a Circumstance as the Place where it was Committe dputs it out of the Power of the ordinary Courts of Justice to take Cognizance of it which are kept to formes and may not trangresse them In the first Case the House of Lords can not punish that for a Crime which the Law doth not make a a Crime but in the second Case God forbid there should be such a failer of Justice in a Kingdome that fellow subjects should robb and worry and destroy one an other though in Forrein parts and there should be no punishment for the wrong doer nor Relief for the party wronged when they come home For then the King might be deprived of many a good subject the Land loose many of her people Trading receive much prejudice and so King and Kingdome suffer great loss and all without remedy But then say the House of Commons Where the Law hath provided and there is an ordinary remedy an extraordinary ought not to be tryed to this the Lords Answer that their House is not an extraordinary remedy but the ordinary remedy in extraordinary Cases and this of Skinners was so both in point of difficulty and point of Compassion And to what is said That it is the Interest of all men in England to be tryed by Juries and there is remedy against willful Juries by Attaint but here is no remedy nor no Appeal It is Answered That the Court of Chancery disposeth of mens Estates without a Jury Every Court of Justice Every Judge in his Circuit sets Fines on mens heads upon several occasions without a Jury Many are tryed for their lives and their Liberties which is more then Estate in the House of Peers upon an impeachment of the House of Commons who are not a Jury nor are sworn therefore that Assertion holds not That all men in all cases are tryed by Juries And for matters of Appeal there doth lye one to the next Parliament or the next Session But it will be said That is to the same Persons And what hopes of any remedy For they wil make good their own Act To this is Answered It is what the Law of the Land hath established We must not be wiser then the Law It is what our Ancestors thought sufficient what hath been the practice of all time And if we leave Posterity in as good a Condition as our Ancestors left us they will have no Cause to Complain Then we must presume that Courts of Justice will do Justice and will do Right that upon better reason shewed upon the Appeal they will alter their minds and give an other Judgement They have done so heretofore How many Judgements of Parliament have been reversed by succeeding Parliaments And where there is Cause for it we must hope they will do so again Then where as it is said That the greatness of the Charge and the Inconveniencies of attending Causes in the Lords House is an Argument against their Judicature They Answer That it is not the House of Lords that appoints such great Fees to Counsel it being left to their Consciences that take them and to the will and discretion of their Clients who give them and who without an Act of Parliament to restraine it may give what they will or rather what they must However The Lords say that the charge in Chancery is greater there having been some times forty fifty Orders made in one Cause and the delay much greater so as some Causes have lasted there very many years And even at the Common Law how many Verdicts have been given in one Cause contrary Verdicts one for the Plaintiff an other for the Defendant Contrary Rules of Court the Judges give a Rule one day and three daies after give an other clean contrary As an Instance of it can be given but of last Trinity Term in the Kings Bench. These are Inconveniences that lye not in the House of Peers But admit there were Inconveniences Many Laws are found inconvenient which yet are put in execution and all obedience given to them whilest they stand unrepealed And the Question is not now of Convenient or Inconvenient but matter of Right Is it the Right of the House of Peers hath it still been the Custome and Usage of Parliaments and consequently the Law of Parliament that they should exercise such a Power of Judicature If it be so as it is and will be sufficiently proved then the point of Conveniency or Inconveniency is out of doors Well may it be a motive to alter it by the Law But we will play with them at their own Weapon and joyn Issue upon that point that the Inconveniency is but imaginary and so farr from an Inconvenience that it is the great advantage of the subject that it should be so As well to give relief in Cases otherwise unrelievable as to assist and help on the administration of Justice when sometimes the greatness and power of some persons would else bear down or much obstruct and hinder the Proceedings of Inferior Courts An objection also was raised How shall the Lords Judgements be executed after the Rising of the Parliament For so the subject may be deceived And when he thinks that with much Charge he hath made an end of his business he is never the nearer And it is Answered that the House of Peers is not as the House of Commons whose Orders are only of force whilest they are sitting they have power sufficient to require Obedience to their Judgements Nor hath it been knowen that ever any Judgement of the House of Peers was not submitted unto and obeyed till now in this Case of Skinners that the East-India Company stands out in defiance and refuseth all Obedience to it In 15 R. 2. N. 17. in the Case of the Abbot of St Oseches complaining against John Rokell for divers Embraceries and for not obeying an Order of the Duke of Lancasters made therein the Lords Confirme that Order and charge the Lord Chancellor to see Rokell perform it Why may not the Lords do the same still if they doubt of Obedience to their Orders But there was never question made of it before And there are many Presidents of Orders given to persons to act some thing in the Intervalls of Parliaments to give an account of it to the Lords at the next ensueing Parliament which shewes that their Authority stil continues to empower those persons to act and to execute their Orders even when the Parliament is risen 15 E. 3. N. 48. The Bishops of Duresme and Salisbury the Earl of Northamton Warwick Arundell and Salisbury are appointed to take the Answer of the Archbishop of Canterbury and to report it to the next Parliament And 51 E.
3. N. 96. It is there specified How in the Parliament before one Hugh Staffolk had been accused of divers Extortions and that a Commission was then granted to the Earl of Suffolk and Sir John Cavendish to inquire into it who so had done and had found him guiltless by 18 Enquests which Sir John Cavendish did in that present Parliament witness to be true By all this it appears that the Authority of the House of Peers ends not with the Parliament but their Judgements still continue in full force and power And they may appoint Persons to see them executed if they please And whereas the House of Commons doth not deny them a power of Judicature upon Writs of Error and upon Appeales Will not the same objection lye as well against their Judgements in those Cases For seldome that they be put in execution before the Parliament rise so it takes away their whole Judicature as in truth all the other objections would do could they be made good And whereas it was said That none of the Kings Courts can give remedy where the Kings Writ can not run And where his Majesties Soveraignty doth not come the Jurisdiction of the Peers can have no place It was Answered that there Chiefly the Power of the House of Peers is to give remedy because it only can As for Treasons till the Statutes of 26 H. 8. C. 13.32 H. 8. C. 2. and 5 E. 6. C. 11. which have made them tryable within the Realm and all Misdemeanors committed in Forrein parts which never were nor yet are tryable at the Common Law Of this there are multitudes of Presidents Gomeniz Weston Segrave Hall Richill c. And here within the Kingdome the the Kings Writ doth not originally run in all places as for example in the Counties Palatine yet no man will deny the Authotity of the Lords in Parliament taking place there 9 R. 2. N. 13. The Duke of Lancaster Complaines of Sir John Stanley for not suing out his Livery for the Mannor of Latham in the Dukes Court of Chancery and yet entring upon it They declare his Entry unlawful and Order him to sue out his livery in the Dukes Court. The Kings Writ did not run there but the Authority of the Lords did Another Objection was That all Proceedings ought to be in Latin and nâ— Record to be in English But the Lords had thought That none had ever yet doubted but the House of Peers had been a Court of Record where all the Proceedings Orders Judgements have been in English ever since H. 6â—… time All Acts of Parliament in English All impeachments even those brought up by the House of Commons the Proceedings and the Sentence all in English The Ancient Records were in French and the Pleadings likewise till the Statute of 36 E. 3. Which appoints Pleadings to be in English and to be entred and enrolled in Latin so the Print saith but in Sir Robert Cottons Abridgement of the Records it is observed that the Record it self warrants no such thing Then the Chancery Proceedings are all in English The Pleadings Orders and Decrees Yet it will not be denied but that is a Court of Record Sir Edward Coke who alone is of an other Opinion concerning the Chancery and upon that ground because the Proceeding is in English yet makes the House of Commons it self a Court of Record where every body knowes all is in English Jnst 4. part p. 23. so he doth not sibi constare The last Objection and indeed the the Chief one if true was That it deprives the Subject of the benefit of Magna Charta which will have all men to be tryed by their Peers or by the Law of the Land And the 25 of Ed. 3. C. 4. that none shall be apprehended upon Petition to the King or Counsel and Counsel here they interpreted to be the House of Lords but upon inditement or presentment or by Writ Original And the 42. of E. 3. which is to the same purpose It was urged further that no Writ was ever made returnable Coram Dominis Spiritualibus et Temporalibus And it was said in Regard of the Island being in a Forrein Princes Jurisdiction that it ought to have been done by Act of Parliament for that no Court of his Majestie can give remedy where his Majesties Writ can not run nor can the Jurisdiction of the House of Peers have place there An other observation they had upon Lex Terrae in Magna Charta That in the Arguments of the Kings learned Counsel 3. Car. They made Lex Terrae to be the pleasure of the King And the Lords were desired to consider upon this if by arguing that the Proceedings of their House were maintained to be Secundum Legem Terrae it may not as well be said that Magna Charta will have men to be tryed Per Judicium Parium aut per Legem Terrae That is by the will of the Lords This is the substance of what was most materially urged against the Lords at that Conference Some other things were said rather to entertain the By-standers then for any thing else as the question asked How the Lords should see further beyond sea then other men Indeed the Lords thought they might see as farr as other men and as farr as the Court of Chancery or any other Court but never undertook to see further But they think if some may have their wills they may be laid so low that they shall then see but a very little way but that is not yet And another pretty Dilemma was made which was this Are the Lords bound to recieve all Petitions or not if bound they may refuse none for Magna Charta saith Nulli negabimus and the King is Debitor Justitiae to all his subjects If they be not bound then they must be partial to receive some and dismiss others But this Argumentum bicorne hurts with neither horne For the Lords in these very Presidents brought by the House of Commons in Ed. 1. Ed. 2. time did not deny Justice when they sent the Petitioners unto those several Courts where they should receive it one to the Chancery an other to the Common Law and directed one to bring such an Action another a differing one according to their several Cases And in those multitudes of Presidents brought by the Lords where Causes have been retained and determined in that House they can not justly be charged with Partiality when they are moved thereunto by some thing extraordinary in those Cases which requires their Relief and that it can not be had else where And a Question may be put on the other side whither it can be believed that Partiality was imputed to all the Parliaments heretofore which at their first sitting appointed Committees Tryers of Petitions for England for Ireland for Gascony nay for Flanders where the King had no Dominion and sometimes in general for all places beyond the Seas to examine which were fit to be received
such a Writ But by the delivery only of a Declaration of Trespass and Ejectment any mans Inheritance of never so much value may be questioned and brought to Tryal if it shall continue his or no Nay There is an Act of Parliament 18 El. c. 14. which provides expresly That after a verdict given the want of an Original Writ shall be no Cause of Error to be pleaded in Arrest of Judgement but that Judgement and Execution shall follow So farr is it from being true that no Freehold can be judged without an Original Writ And faine would I aske what Original Writ they use in Chancery to sue men there for their Freehold Is it any more then for the Complainant to put in his Petitionary Bill of Complaint then take out a Writ of Subpoena for the Defendant to come in and answer by such a day just what was heretofore used in the House of Lords the Plaintiff put in his Petition and the House ordered a Writ of Summons to Issue out to call in the Defendant But in later times that House as is usuall for all Courts to alter their Method of Proceeding and find out some more compendious and easy way both for themselves and for Suitors so have they instead of a Writ as formerly which asked more time and charge to take out made it now that an Order of the House shall be sufficient for that purpose but they may returne to their Writs of Summons again when they please And as to Original Writs ow unseasonable is it and ggainst all reason to make it now an Objection against the Judicature of the House of Peers That the Proceedings there not being upon those Writs they ought not to meddle with matters of Freehold Since the Practice of the Law is now so changed that even Inferior Courts have left off the use of them whereas heretofore when all other Courts were by the Law and the practise of those times tyed to those Forms the House of Lords was not but exercised still their Judicature in their own Parliamentary way without Original Writs yet no such exception was then taken but all their Judgements were still allowed of approved and obeyed and punctually executed And the other Assertion doth not operate much neither viz. That it was never heard of a Writ Returnable Coram Dominis Spiritualibus et Temporalibus For if it be meant of Original VVrits what doth that signifie seeing they are not at all necessary no not used now for Commencing of suites even in Westminster-Hall much less in Parliament where the use hath ever been otherwise And if meant of other VVrits it is a foul-mistake For it hath been the Common practice of the House of Peers especially in former times upon any Complaint made to them by Petition to Order a VVrit to Issue out with the Petition annexed or containing the matter of it directed sometimes to the party himself petitioned against commanding him to appear sometimes to the Sheriff of the County commanding him to summon the party to appear before them at a certaine day and the Writ withall to be then returned so to enter into the examination of the busines and afterwards proceed to Judgement Ancient Presidents of this are sans nombre 25 E. 1. m. 14. Upon Complaint of the Arch-Bishop of York That the Advouson of the Rectory of Bridgeford was detained from him by Boniface de Salucijs a Writ reciting the matter complained of is ordered to be sent unto him requiring him to appear in Parliament the morrow after St. Gregory the Pope at Carlile and shew cause Quare ad finalem expeditionem praedictorum negotiorum minime fuerit procedendum why the House should not proceed to a final dispatch of the busines and be was enjoyned to bring the Writ with him habeas ibi tunc hoc Breve is the Close of the Writ The Printed Book of the Placita Parliamentaria in Ed. 1. time is full of Presidents of this Nature I have in this discourse cited very many both out of that Book other Records of Parliament under the other Kings I shal not therefore heap uy any number here though it were easie to do I will only give a short account of one which seemes to me a memorable one out of that Book of the Pacita Parliamentaria p. 1.57 the 21 of E. 1. Magdulphus sonne of Malcolin Earl of Fife in Scotland complaines in Parliament to King Edward That John King of Scotland had wrongfully dispossessed him of certain Lands in Scotland called Reyes and Crey Whereupon King Edward directs his Writ to the Sheriff of Northumberland commanding him to go into Scotland taking persons with him to testifie it and there deliver a Writ of Summons to the King of Scotland to appear before him such a day ad respondendum praedicto Magdulpho super praemissis et ad faciendum et recipiendum ulterius quod Justitia requireret Which was by the Sheriff performed at Striveling the morrow after St. Peter ad vincula who made his returne accordingly to the Parliament And the King of Scotland appeared at his day and was asked if the Kings Writ had been delivered to him by the said Sheriff which he acknowledged and said further Quod semper paratus est et erit Brevia et mandata Regis ut Domini sui admittere Then be was bid to deliver in the Writ and he said he had delivered it to his Chancellor and the Chancellor examined said he had it not there But yet upon the Kings acknowledgement that he had received such a Writ his appearance was admitted and be was willed to Answer to the matter of complaint put in by Magdulphus His Answer was That he was King of Scotland and could not without the Counsel and Advice of the good men of his Kingdome speak to any thing that concerned it This was judged by the Parliament to be Contempt us manifeslus et Inobedientia expressa and it was further Ordered that three of the Principal Castles of Scotland should be seised into the Kings hands and so remain Quo-usque de contemptu et Inobedientia praedicta cidem Domino Regi satisfecerit But the King of Scotland came before the pronouncing of the sentence Coram Rege et Consilio suo et fecit Domino Regi quandam Supplicationem ore suo proprio per verba subscripta which words were these Sire Ieo suy vostre home du Royaulme d'Escoce et vous prie que de ceo que vous me avez mis adevant que touche les gents de mon Royalme aussy come a moy voillez mettre en soeffrance jesques a taunt que ieo ay a eux parle que ieo ne sey suppris per defaute de Conseil desicum les gens que cy sont oue moy ne moy voillent ne osent conseiller sauns autre du Royaulme et quand ieo me averay a eux consaile ieo vous respondray a vostre primer Parliament apres