beyond_o all_o man_n in_o sauciness_n neither_o bring_v they_o any_o thing_n with_o they_o from_o home_n but_o a_o vain_a &_o intolerable_a contempt_n of_o all_o good_a man_n neither_o can_v they_o abide_v to_o be_v correct_v by_o any_o admonition_n of_o other_o m._n caluine_n speak_v of_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n instit._n cap._n 8._o sect._n 120._o say_v thus_o scimus_fw-la politiam_fw-la pro_fw-la varietate_fw-la temporum_fw-la recipere_fw-la imo_fw-la exigere_fw-la varias_fw-la mutationes_fw-la we_o know_v that_o the_o policy_n of_o the_o church_n do_v receive_v nay_o rather_o do_v require_v diverse_a alteration_n beza_n caluine_n beza_n m._n beza_n likewise_o lib._n confess_v cap._n 5._o sect._n 17_o be_v of_o the_o same_o mind_n touch_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v another_o cause_n of_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n that_o they_o may_v ordain_v canon_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o that_o i_o may_v comprehend_v many_o thing_n in_o few_o word_n that_o they_o may_v appoint_v ecclesiastical_a policy_n for_o the_o diverse_a circumstance_n of_o time_n place_n and_o person_n for_o it_o be_v necessary_a all_o thing_n shall_v be_v do_v orderly_o in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n of_o the_o which_o order_n there_o be_v one_o general_a reason_n to_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o not_o one_o and_o the_o same_o form_n agreeable_a to_o all_o circumstance_n and_o section_n 32._o speak_v of_o this_o signiory_n he_o show_v that_o it_o be_v necessary_a in_o the_o church_n while_o there_o be_v no_o christian_a magistrate_n for_o so_o he_o write_v but_o there_o idem_fw-la idem_fw-la be_v elder_n choose_v by_o suffrage_n or_o at_o least_o by_o the_o approbation_n of_o the_o whole_a company_n as_o it_o be_v very_o evident_a out_o of_o ambrose_n which_o complain_v that_o certain_a man_n have_v transfer_v this_o authority_n to_o themselves_o and_o ut_fw-la of_o cyprian_a likewise_o by_o who_o we_o may_v also_o understand_v that_o the_o bishop_n do_v rule_v over_o the_o college_n of_o elder_n not_o that_o he_o shall_v there_o reign_v but_o that_o by_o their_o consent_n he_o may_v rule_v the_o policy_n of_o the_o church_n especial_o for_o so_o much_o as_o at_o that_o time_n the_o church_n of_o africa_n be_v not_o help_v of_o the_o magistrate_n but_o be_v rather_o cruel_o vex_v of_o they_o and_o sect._n 35._o speak_v general_o of_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n he_o say_v neither_o must_v we_o simple_o look_v what_o be_v do_v of_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o government_n idem_fw-la idem_fw-la of_o the_o church_n sing_v there_o be_v most_o diverse_a circumstance_n and_o therefore_o without_o preposterous_a zeal_n all_o thing_n can_v in_o all_o place_n and_o time_n be_v call_v to_o one_o and_o the_o same_o form_n but_o rather_o the_o end_n and_o invariable_a purpose_n of_o they_o must_v be_v look_v unto_o and_o that_o manner_n and_o form_n of_o do_v thing_n be_v to_o be_v choose_v which_o do_v direct_o tend_v thereunto_o this_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o these_o learned_a man_n neither_o do_v i_o know_v any_o that_o think_v the_o contrary_a except_o such_o as_o make_v post_n haste_n to_o that_o branch_n of_o anabaptisme_n six_o either_o we_o must_v admit_v another_o form_n now_o of_o govern_v the_o church_n than_o government_n 6._o the_o iurisdietion_n of_o the_o christian_n magistrate_n impli_v a_o change_n of_o the_o first_o kind_n of_o government_n be_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n or_o else_o we_o must_v seclude_v the_o christian_a magistrate_n from_o all_o authority_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n &_o attribute_v no_o more_o to_o he_o therein_o than_o be_v attribute_v to_o nero_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n for_o in_o those_o day_n there_o be_v no_o christian_a prince_n to_o govern_v the_o church_n but_o christian_a prince_n have_v &_o must_v have_v y_fw-es e_fw-it chief_a care_n &_o government_n of_o the_o church_n next_o under_o god_n ergo_fw-la the_o same_o form_n of_o government_n can_v be_v now_o nor_o aught_o to_o be_v that_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n thus_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o the_o ground_n whereof_z t._n c._n have_v build_v his_o whole_a book_n be_v a_o false_a ground_n contrary_a to_o the_o scripture_n the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n the_o opinion_n reply_n the_o ground_n of_o the_o reply_n of_o learned_a man_n and_o the_o lawful_a and_o just_a authority_n of_o christian_n prince_n and_o therefore_o the_o building_n be_v ruinous_a and_o can_v stand_v ¶_o of_o certain_a matter_n concern_v discipline_n in_o the_o church_n tract_n 18._o of_o excommunication_n and_o in_o who_o the_o execution_n thereof_o do_v consist_v chap._n 1._o the._n 1._o division_n admonition_n let_v we_o come_v now_o to_o the_o three_o part_n which_o concern_v ecclesiastical_a discipline_n the_o officer_n that_o have_v to_o deal_v in_o this_o charge_n be_v chief_o three_o minister_n preacher_n or_o pastor_n of_o wheme_n before_o senior_n or_o elder_n and_o deacon_n concern_v senior_n not_o only_o their_o office_n but_o their_o name_n also_o be_v out_o of_o this_o english_a church_n utter_o remove_v their_o office_n be_v to_o 28._o to_o act._n 14._o 4._o 1._o cor._n 1_o 28._o govern_v the_o church_n with_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o minister_n to_o consult_v to_o admonish_v to_o correct_v and_o to_o order_v all_o thing_n appertain_a to_o the_o state_n of_o the_o congregation_n answer_v to_o the_o admonition_n pag._n 112._o sect._n 3_o what_o scripture_n have_v you_o to_o prove_v that_o such_o senior_n as_o you_o mean_v &_o deacon_n have_v any_o thing_n to_o do_v in_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n i_o think_v the_o only_a discipline_n that_o we_o have_v in_o the_o whole_a new_a testament_n except_o you_o will_v make_v admonition_n &_o exhortation_n a_o part_n of_o it_o be_v excommunication_n and_o the_o execution_n of_o that_o be_v only_o commit_v to_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n math._n 16._o john_n 20._o example_n hereof_o we_o have_v â–ª_o only_a 〈◊〉_d master_n may_v excommunicate_v â–ª_o 1._o cor._n 5._o 1._o tim._n 1._o &_o ad_fw-la titum_fw-la 3._o t._n c._n pag._n 146._o sect._n 2._o now_o i_o return_v back_o again_o to_o excommunication_n which_o m._n doctor_n think_v to_o be_v y_z e_z only_a discipline_n in_o the_o church_n but_o he_o shall_v understande_v that_o beside_o y_fw-fr â—_o part_n of_o private_a discipline_n which_o be_v ordinary_o &_o daily_o to_o be_v exercise_v by_o every_o one_o of_o y_z e_z pastor_n &_o elder_n as_o admonition_n &_o reprehension_n there_o be_v three_o principal_a part_n which_o be_v exercise_v of_o they_o joint_o &_o together_o whereof_o the_o first_o be_v the_o election_n or_o choice_n &_o the_o abdication_n or_o put_v out_o of_o ecclesiastical_a officer_n the_o second_o be_v in_o excommunication_n of_o the_o stubborn_a or_o absolution_n of_o the_o repentant_a the_o third_o be_v the_o decision_n of_o all_o such_o matter_n as_o do_v rise_v in_o the_o church_n either_o touch_v corrupt_a manner_n or_o perverse_a doctrine_n io._n whitgifte_n i_o speak_v of_o y_fw-fr e_o public_a discipline_n of_o y_fw-fr e_o church_n not_o of_o private_a admonition_n &_o reprehension_n which_o may_v be_v call_v by_o y_z e_z name_n of_o discipline_n but_o neither_o be_v they_o proper_o nor_o usual_o so_o call_v except_o you_o will_v also_o say_v y_z e_z public_a preach_v &_o read_v of_o y_z e_z scripture_n be_v discipline_n these_o be_v thing_n annex_v to_o discipline_n but_o unproper_o term_v by_o y_z e_z name_n consist_v wherein_o discipline_n consist_v of_o discipline_n your_o partition_n of_o discipline_n into_o those_o three_o part_n in_o my_o poor_a judgement_n be_v very_o unskilful_a for_o discipline_n consist_v in_o punish_v &_o correct_v of_o vice_n neither_o yet_o be_v the_o decide_n of_o controversy_n in_o matter_n doubtful_a proper_o call_v discipline_n for_o discipline_n be_v exercise_v in_o punish_v &_o correct_v y_o e_o person_n not_o decjo_v y_z e_o cause_n wherefore_o i_o think_v you_o have_v forget_v yourself_o &_o in_o stead_n of_o y_fw-fr e_o part_n have_v divide_v y_o e_o whole_a that_o be_v you_o have_v make_v a_o division_n of_o government_n whereas_o you_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o divide_v discipline_n which_o be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o ecclesiastical_a policy_n or_o government_n read_v the_o general_a confession_n of_o y_fw-fr e_o christian_n church_n in_o helvetia_n &_o tell_v i_o what_o it_o differ_v from_o any_o thing_n y_fw-fr e_o i_o have_v say_v call_v to_o your_o remembrance_n that_o which_o yourself_o 9_o pag._n 1._o 4._o li_n 9_o have_v speak_v pag._n 14._o where_o you_o call_v other_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n but_o forerunner_n to_o excommunication_n but_o this_o be_v a_o contention_n only_o about_o word_n &_o therefore_o enough_o be_v say_v of_o it_o chap._n 1._o the._n 2._o division_n t._n c._n pag._n 146._o sect._n 3_o as_o touch_v the_o
in_o our_o church_n debate_v at_o any_o time_n heretofore_o io_o whitgifte_n the_o 17._o article_n page_n 4._o sect._n 7._o they_o be_v very_o stubborn_a and_o wilful_a which_o they_o call_v constancy_n 244_o bu._n eo_fw-la 78._o 244_o they_o be_v way_n ward_n and_o froward_a without_o all_o humanity_n they_o judge_v and_o condemn_v all_o other_o man_n t._n c._n page_n 6._o sect._n 3_o if_o we_o defend_v no_o falsehood_n or_o inconvenient_a thing_n we_o can_v be_v count_v stubborn_a or_o wilful_a whereof_o we_o offer_v to_o be_v try_v by_o the_o indifferent_a reader_n for_o waywardnesse_n &_o inhumanity_n we_o think_v it_o a_o fault_n as_o we_o esteem_v godly_a society_n and_o affability_n to_o be_v commendable_a and_o what_o be_v our_o behavioure_n herein_o we_o likewise_o refer_v to_o their_o judgement_n with_o who_o we_o be_v conversant_a and_o have_v to_o do_v with_o be_v misseiudge_v and_o untrue_o condemn_v of_o you_o we_o judge_v nor_o condemn_v no_o man_n their_o vice_n we_o condemn_v so_o far_o forth_o as_o the_o list_n of_o our_o vocation_n do_v permit_v us._n io._n whitgifte_n because_o the_o answer_n to_o this_o article_n consist_v of_o if_o and_o depend_v especial_o of_o the_o testimony_n of_o such_o as_o have_v be_v a_o convenient_a time_n conversant_a with_o you_o i_o refer_v the_o judgement_n hereof_o to_o their_o experience_n and_o indifferent_a consideration_n io._n whitgifte_n the._n 18._o article_n page_n 4_o sect._n 8._o they_o seek_v to_o overthrow_v common_a weal_n and_o state_n of_o government_n 78._o fol._n 78._o t._n c._n page_n 6._o sect._n 4._o we_o allow_v of_o common_a weal_n 35_o weal_n this_o seem_v to_o be_v contrary_a to_o that_o which_o be_v have_v page_n 35_o as_o without_o which_o the_o church_n can_v long_o continue_v we_o speak_v not_o against_o civil_a government_n nor_o pet_n against_o ecclesiastical_a further_o than_o the_o same_o be_v a_o evimie_n to_o the_o government_n that_o god_n have_v institute_v io._n whitgifte_n so_o do_v the_o anabaptist_n in_o word_n protest_v as_o it_o appear_v by_o these_o word_n of_o zuinglius_fw-la ecclesi_n zuingli_fw-la in_o ecclesi_n in_o his_o eccle._n though_o they_o protest_v and_o by_o oath_n deny_v that_o they_o take_v any_o authority_n from_o magistrate_n y_fw-fr et_fw-fr short_o after_o we_o shall_v have_v see_v it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o they_o will_v have_v be_v disobedient_a to_o all_o law_n of_o magistrate_n if_o once_o they_o have_v increase_v to_o that_o number_n that_o they_o may_v have_v trust_v to_o their_o own_o strength_n but_o what_o your_o doctrine_n tend_v too_o though_o peradventure_o you_o mean_v not_o so_o it_o will_v i_o think_v appear_v when_o it_o be_v examine_v io._n whitgifte_n the_o 19_o article_n page_n 4._o sect_n 9_o they_o give_v honour_n and_o reverence_n to_o none_o and_o they_o use_v to_o speak_v 79._o fol._n 79._o to_o such_o as_o be_v in_o authority_n without_o any_o signification_n of_o honour_n neither_o will_v they_o call_v man_n by_o their_o title_n and_o they_o answer_v chur_n sh_o t._n c._n page_n 6._o sect._n 5._o if_o we_o give_v honour_n and_o reverence_n to_o none_o let_v we_o not_o only_o have_v none_o again_o but_o let_v we_o be_v have_v as_o those_o that_o be_v unworthy_a to_o live_v among_o man_n i_o fear_v there_o be_v of_o those_o which_o be_v your_o favourer_n ecclesiastical_a person_n that_o if_o they_o shall_v meet_v with_o my_o lord_n mayor_n of_o london_n will_v strain_n courtesy_n whether_o he_o or_o they_o shall_v put_v off_o the_o cap_n first_o we_o give_v the_o title_n of_o majesty_n to_o the_o queen_n our_o soveraygne_a of_o grace_n to_z duke_z and_o duchess_n of_o honour_n to_o those_o which_o be_v in_o honour_n and_o so_o to_o every_o one_o according_a to_o their_o estate_n if_o we_o miss_v it_o be_v not_o because_o we_o be_v not_o willing_a but_o because_o we_o know_v not_o always_o what_o pertain_v unto_o they_o and_o then_o our_o fault_n be_v pardonable_a for_o answer_v churlish_o again_o churlish_o where_o nothing_o be_v mention_v of_o it_o but_o it_o be_v refer_v by_o like_a to_o this_o place_n and_o from_o hence_o post_v over_o thither_o again_o it_o be_v answer_v before_o in_o the_o seven_o article_n io._n whitgifte_n judéede_o the_o anabaptist_n in_o the_o end_n reject_v all_o authority_n of_o superior_n and_o refuse_v to_o give_v unto_o they_o their_o due_a title_n and_o reverence_n yet_o when_o they_o have_v for_o a_o time_n obtain_v their_o own_o desire_n they_o take_v that_o to_o themselves_o most_o ambitious_o which_o they_o refuse_v to_o give_v to_o other_o you_o be_v not_o so_o far_o go_v as_o yet_o in_o all_o state_n but_o in_o the_o contempt_n of_o the_o state_n ecclesiastical_a you_o may_v compare_v with_o they_o to_o the_o uttermost_a what_o you_o will_v do_v in_o the_o end_n touch_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n if_o you_o obtain_v your_o desire_n i_o will_v not_o determine_v but_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o such_o as_o shall_v peruse_v these_o our_o book_n of_o such_o controversy_n io._n whitgifte_n the._n 20._o article_n page_n 4._o sect._n 10._o they_o attribute_v much_o unto_o themselves_o and_o please_v themselves_o 85._o bul._n fol._n 85._o very_o well_o other_o man_n they_o contemn_v and_o therefore_o their_o mind_n be_v full_a of_o pride_n and_o contempt_n t._n c._n page_n 6._o sect._n 6._o with_o acknowledge_v of_o our_o manifold_a want_n and_o ignorances_n we_o doubt_v not_o also_o to_o take_v upon_o we_o with_o thanksgiving_n that_o knowledge_n which_o god_n have_v give_v to_o every_o of_o we_o according_a to_o the_o measure_n of_o faith_n we_o seek_v not_o to_o please_v ourselves_o but_o the_o lord_n and_o our_o briethren_n yea_o all_o man_n in_o that_o which_o be_v good_a we_o reverence_v other_o man_n gift_n so_o as_o we_o think_v the_o contempt_n of_o they_o redound_v to_o the_o giver_n therefore_o although_o the_o cominon_n infection_n be_v in_o we_o yet_o we_o hope_v pride_n do_v not_o reign_v in_o our_o mortal_a body_n io._n whitgifte_n well_o for_o the_o right_a application_n of_o this_o article_n i_o will_v go_v no_o further_o than_o to_o this_o your_o own_o book_n sure_o if_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o fellow_n have_v the_o same_o spirit_n there_o be_v never_o anabaptist_n in_o these_o quality_n to_o be_v compare_v unto_o you_o but_o i_o think_v better_o of_o some_o of_o they_o so_o will_v i_o have_v do_v of_o you_o also_o if_o i_o have_v not_o see_v the_o contrary_a in_o you_o even_o sithence_o our_o first_o acquaintance_n but_o especial_o since_o the_o time_n wherein_o upon_o just_a occasion_n i_o begin_v to_o stir_v you_o and_o now_o most_o evident_o in_o your_o reply_n yea_o this_o very_a answer_n of_o you_o to_o this_o article_n verify_v the_o same_o to_o have_v place_n in_o you_o which_o in_o this_o 20._o article_n be_v ascribe_v to_o the_o anabaptist_n io._n whitgifte_n the._n 21._o article_n page_n 4._o sect._n ii_o they_o go_v not_o to_o preach_v in_o such_o place_n where_o the_o gospel_n be_v 88_o fol._n 88_o not_o plant_v but_o only_o they_o insinuate_v themselves_o into_o those_o place_n wherein_o the_o gospel_n have_v be_v diligent_o preach_v and_o where_o there_o be_v godly_a and_o quiet_a man_n there_o they_o make_v a_o stir_n they_o raise_v up_o faction_n and_o breed_v discord_n t._n c._n page_n 6_o sect._n ult._n we_o hold_v that_o it_o be_v no_o minister_n part_n to_o choose_v his_o own_o place_n where_o he_o will_v preach_v but_o to_o arie_a you_o how_o happenet_n it_o then_o that_o so_o many_o of_o you_o flock_v together_o at_o london_n ▪_o who_o call_v you_o until_o he_o e_z choose_v of_o other_o likewise_o that_o he_o insinuate_v not_o himself_o but_o abide_v a_o lawful_a call_n &_o therefore_o this_o can_v agree_v to_o we_o but_o to_o those_o rather_o which_o content_n themselves_o with_o a_o rove_a &_o wander_a ministry_n and_o defend_v the_o minister_n own_o present_v and_o offer_v himself_o or_o ever_o he_o be_v call_v io._n whitgifte_n and_o why_o have_v you_o then_o hitherto_o choose_v such_o place_n to_o remain_v and_o preach_v in_o as_o london_n etc._n etc._n where_o the_o gospel_n without_o you_o and_o before_o your_o time_n be_v plant_v why_o have_v you_o there_o and_o in_o such_o like_a place_n disquiet_v the_o church_n and_o sow_v the_o seed_n of_o contention_n what_o calling_n have_v you_o have_v in_o those_o place_n which_o you_o may_v not_o have_v by_o the_o self_n same_o mean_n in_o other_o place_n also_o where_o the_o gospel_n be_v not_o so_o well_o plant_v true_o this_o note_n be_v so_o common_a to_o all_o anabaptist_n and_o so_o notorious_a that_o i_o zuinglius_fw-la zuinglius_fw-la know_v very_o few_o write_n against_o the_o anabaptist_n which_o do_v omit_v it_o zuinglius_fw-la report_v it_o of_o they_o in_o his_o elenc_n contra_fw-la
contrary_a to_o the_o present_a state_n and_o that_o eneline_v to_o liberty_n will_v usual_o elect_v such_o as_o will_v feed_v their_o humour_n so_o that_o the_o prince_n neither_o shall_v have_v quiet_a government_n neither_o can_v be_v able_a to_o preserve_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n nor_o yet_o to_o plant_v that_o religion_n that_o he_o in_o conscience_n be_v persuade_v to_o be_v ncere_a as_o for_o the_o authority_n of_o isalow_v their_o election_n which_o you_o give_v unto_o he_o it_o be_v but_o a_o intolerable_a trouble_n and_o beside_o that_o he_o shall_v not_o understand_v their_o do_n or_o if_o he_o do_v yet_o may_v he_o not_o deprive_v they_o of_o their_o liberty_n in_o choose_v so_o that_o you_o make_v his_o authority_n in_o effect_n nothing_o moreover_o his_o church_n and_o whole_a kingdom_n shall_v be_v fill_v with_o anabaptist_n libertine_n papist_n puritan_n and_o a_o hundred_o sect_n mo_z or_o ever_o he_o be_v aware_a for_o who_o will_v complain_v of_o he_o who_o 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such_o matter_n and_o more_o i_o te_fw-la to_o be_v rule_v than_o to_o rule_v for_o as_o chrysostome_n the_o eth_z populus_fw-la est_fw-la quiddam_fw-la tumultus_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o people_n be_v a_o certain_a thing_n full_a of_o tumult_n and_o stir_n consist_v and_o rash_o compact_v for_o the_o most_o part_n of_o folly_n oftentimes_o toss_v with_o variable_a and_o contrary_a judgement_n like_v to_o the_o wave_n of_o the_o sea_n etc._n etc._n these_o and_o a_o great_a number_n mo_z reason_n may_v be_v allege_v why_o the_o people_n be_v to_o be_v his_o ud_v from_o the_o election_n of_o their_o pastor_n and_o yet_o do_v i_o not_o so_o utter_o seclude_v they_o from_o such_o election_n but_o that_o if_o they_o have_v any_o thing_n to_o object_n against_o he_o that_o be_v to_o be_v ordain_v they_o may_v be_v hear_v which_o order_n be_v prescribe_v in_o the_o book_n of_o make_v minister_n and_o that_o be_v asmuch_o as_o can_v be_v require_v although_o i_o do_v not_o condemn_v those_o 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the_o first_o of_o the_o act_n where_o it_o be_v declare_v how_o mathias_n be_v choose_v in_o the_o place_n of_o judas_n to_o make_v up_o the_o number_n of_o the._n xij_o apostle_n sure_o this_o be_v but_o a_o slender_a reason_n mathias_n be_v choose_v into_o the_o place_n of_o judas_n ergo_fw-la no_o man_n must_v be_v admit_v into_o the_o ministry_n except_o a_o place_n before_o hand_n be_v void_a to_o the_o which_o he_o shall_v be_v call_v every_o mean_a sophister_n will_v laugh_v at_o the_o childishness_n of_o this_o argument_n mathias_n be_v choose_v to_o be_v a_o apostle_n and_o not_o to_o any_o certain_a cure_n and_o therefore_o this_o example_n prove_v nothing_o t._n c._n page_n 42._o sect._n 4._o the_o reason_n be_v of_o great_a force_n than_o you_o will_v seem_v to_o make_v it_o for_o as_o the._n xij_o place_n be_v to_o mathias_n so_o be_v a_o certain_a church_n unto_o a_o pastor_n or_o minister_n &_o as_o the_o apostle_n ordain_v none_o unto_o that_o place_n before_o it_o 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