as scandalum acceptum but so geuen as scandalum datum of my parte And wher as it hath been often tymes obiected vnto me how that it is but a very small matter to sticke or staie at for to come to the Church and heare the saied seruice beyng set at libertie secretly and priuily to praie with my self whatsoeuer I shall thinke mete for he aunswere I doe reade in the Scriptures howe Eleazarus the Preest is in the same commended because he would not dissemble the eatyng of swynes fleshe wheras he might haue escaped the paynes of death therby Tertulliane writeth a booke in the praise of a Souldiar and entituleth his boke de corona militis because that Souldiar refused in natali die Seueri imperatoris to weare but a Garlande of flowers vpōn his heade because he should therin then haue followed the maner of the gentiles and heathen people And rather or he would do so small a mattet as to weare but a Garland of flowers he did suffer inprisonment and therfore is commended of so greate a clerke as Tertullian was Theodoritus in hys second booke of the historie Ecclesiastike in Cap. 24. doth note Leontius Bishoppe of Antioche of greate dissimulation for as much as he beyng present in the quire at Antioche and in the hearing of christian men there to sing Gloria patri filio c. and the Arians Gloria patri in filio c. Contrariwise he did there openly take nether partie but priuily at the ende of euery psalme did sing Gloria pari in saecula saeculorum Amen And so he mumbled it vp to hym selfe vt ab instantibus vix audiri posset whose example therfore beyng so manifest and so well admonished therof I purpose not to followe God willyng VVhen to dissemble with a mā I hold it no honestly to dissemble with my Prince it is the iuste deserte of perpetuall discredite and infamie but to dissemble with God it is most impietie from the whiche detestable sinne I am vtterly resolued by the word god spoken by the mouth of Helias saiyng Vsquequo claudicatis in duas partes How long will you halte or limpe on both sides And S. Ihon in his reuelation saieth Because thou arte neither whot nor colde therfore I shall beginne now to vomit and cast thee out of my mouth The premisses well waighed it cannot be iustly saied that I sticke at a trifling or small matter but a matter of greate importance and conscience moueth me therunto and forceth me that I shoulde not vnaduisedly without greate cause seperate my self from the vnity of the Churche neither to condēne the vniuersal church vnheard hauing no iust or weightie cause why I should so doe For I haue alwaies and doe thus waigh the matter with my selfe that the poinctes and matters of religion which this boke of seruice hath condemned or taken awaie ether thei were thought matters of smal importāce and did no harme but being rightly vnderstanded might haue doen good or els thei were to be taken for matters of impietie and intollerable to be borne withal In case thei were of the firste sorte whiche thei haue condemned and abolished Then in my iudgement they should haue been tolerated and borne withall for charities sake and for the continuance and encrease of vnitie betwixte vs and the vniuersall Church of christendom On the other side in case thei had been taken for matters intollerable and could in no wise haue been borne with all for their impietie as it hath been pretended then yet in my cōscience we ought to haue been better aduised then by our priuate condemnation of theim to haue shewed our selfe to condemne thereby al the whole vniuersall church of impietie vnheard which thinges the vniuersall church hath vsed from the Apostles time and doe to this daie As touching matters of right faieth and godly maners the churche of Christe beyng the spouse of Christ was neuer destitute of the holy ghost neither could nor woulde in all this tyme haue borne or dissembled any impietie like as S. Augustine writeth hereof The Church of God beyng placed and put among muche chaffe and many Cockles and wedes the same church doth suffer and beare with many thinges yet that notwithstandyng touchyng the thinges whiche are against faithe and against good life the Churche doth neither approue theim nor yet lette theim escape vnspoken against The aunswere In that you will not dissemble against your conscience if you doe not dissemble but speake as you thinke you are to bee commended but if your conscience as you saie is not yet perswaded you are by no meanes to bée excused for in this so cleare light of the Gospell you could not bee so blind if you did not obstinately close your iyes from receiuyng the Sunne beames into theim And whereas you thinke it not reason to departe from the vnitie of the churche nor to condemne the vniuersall Churche vnheard you stande vpon a false grounde as you dooe alwaies that the Popishe Churche is that vniuersall Churche but that you shall neuer be able to proue For was the Popishe churche at any tyme or is it nowe vniuersalle But the Romishe churche you will saie is alwaies vniuersall though it haue neuer so many enemies But I can shewe you by saincte Augustines iudgemente that the vniuersall Churche maie bee without the Romishe churche For writyng to Casulane Epi. 86. he hath these woordes speakyng of one that defended the Ceremonies custome of the Romishe churche against the whole catholike Churche Quod vtinam sic quaereret aut sic affirmaret vt toto terrarum orbe diffusam exceptis Romanis adhuc paucis occidentalibus apertissimè nō blasphemaret ecclesiam that is to saie whiche thyng I would he did seeke in suche maner or so affirme that he did not moste manifestly thereby blaspheme the churche dispersed through out the whole worlde excepte the Romanes and a fewe other Westerne Churches Doe you not here see that when the Romishe churche with a fewe other that agréed with her are exempted the vniuersall churche of Christe still remaineth by sainct Augustines iudgemente and that if the Romishe Churche departe from the whole Catholike Churche the Romishe Churche is a Schismatike as it is at this daie and hath been a long time euen since Antichriste sette vp his seate there and made a generall departyng from the faith of Christ which sainct Paule prophesieth should come to passe ij Thessal ij All the whiche tyme though there were but few that continued in true faithe and honouryng of God yet those fewe wheresoeuer thei were scattered in all the worlde wer the true catholike Churche of Christ and were alwaies ioigned together in Christe their heade by vnitie of true religion And whereas you saie your Churche is vnhearde I maruaile what you meane for what can the Pope or any of her proctours saie in her defence but it hath been hearde and confuted by the scriptures Whiche thing hath caused the most part
of the regions of Europe this daie to forsake your Hereticall Schismaticall and Antichristian Churche of Rome and to ioigne them selues to the true Catholike and Apostolike churche of Christ whiche approueth all her doctrine out of the holie Scriptures and by the same reproueth all your heresies and erronious opinions the iudgement and triall of whiche holy Canonicall scriptures you neuer yet durst abide It is not therefore any priuate condemnation whiche is pronounced out of Gods woorde against heresies whose aucthoritie in all thynges is highest and of al menne to bee obeied Finally where you affirme that the churche of Christe was not destitute of the holy Ghoste I agree with you but that your Churche is the Churche of Christe I maie in no wise acknowledge And truthe it is that the true Churche did alwaies reclaime against the heresies of your church as thei sprong vp and increased in the worlde and receiued that reward whiche true Prophetes haue accustomed to receiue of wicked tyrantes namely persecution imprisonmente and cruell death as appeared in Bertramus Marsilius of Padua Pauperes de Lugduno Iohannes de Gandauo Bruno Andegauensis Iohannes Wickleue Iohannes Hus Hieronimus de Praga c. all whiche with many other in seuerall times places reproued and confuted your false Churche and the errours thereof some in Italie some in Fraunce some in Flaunders some in Germanie some in Bohemia and some in Englande and for the moste part were either murthered or otherwise cruelly persecuted for their labours But yet the heresies of your church did not escape vnspoken against and confuted by them The Papiste The sixte and laste consideration that I come not to their churche is because I am not of their Churche S. Augustine in putting difference of churches saieth how vnto them whiche haue not all one Sacramētes there can not be one religion nor consequently one Churche And the cause why I am not of their Churche but refuse to communicate with theym in religion besides this saiyng of S. Augustine that we should not Communicate in sacramentes with those men whose doctrine we can not aproue and allow I do refuse to be of their church because I cannot learne nor vnderstande of what church they are of For thei beyng first Baptized in the catholike churche and in the very self faieth and religion wherin I do at this present time beleue and remaine thei are departed therefro some to the Lutheranes Church some to the Zwinglians and comyng last of al to the church Geneua they are in maner fled from that church also and by attributing the chief supreme gouernment of this their English churche vnto the Quenes highnes thei are in doctrine directly against their old maister Caluine being the chief Apostle of the Church of Geneua whiche Caluine in the eight Chapter of the boke of his institutions doth directlie reason against Kynges and Princes for takyng vpon theim spirituall gouernment in the Church of Christ and in the same Chapiter he doeth muche commende the holy Bishop S. Ambrose and the noble Emperour Theodosius Ambrose for his greate stoutnes and resistance made against the Emperour And Theodosius for his greate submission and obediens shewed vnto the Bishop The history whereof is at large expressed in Ecclesiastica historia And the saide Caluine in hys exposition vppon the fowerth Chapiter of the prophete Amos doth taxe King Henry the eight by name because he alone of all other Princes was the first that toke vpon hym in the Church of Christ spirituall gouernmēt whose example in that poinct there was neuer one Prince in all Germanie nor yet in any place els where of the whole world that woulde followe the same but his owne naturall sonne Kyng Edward the sixte beyng then in his minoritie and againe the Queenes highnes that nowe is If therfore I shall departe from the comon knowen catholike Church wherin I stand I would gladly knowe of theim vnto what Church I shoulde repaire to be instructed with out errours wherin vnitie charitie and veritie doe dwel what forme of a churche are thei able to shew wherupon a christian man may be bolde to assure himselfe And if peraduenture they cease not ro pretende that the Primitiue Churche is that plat forme of the Churche wherunto they would reduce vs I answere that there be so many poinctes wherein they doe dissent from the Primitiue Churche like as I shall make sufficient proofe thereof that it can not be so it is onely pretended but it shall neuer be proued The Anabaptistes the Libertines and the Arians doe pretende gods worde and the Primitiue Churche as well as thei And because they are so bolde to name the primitiue church I aske of theim but this one questiō whether that this daie 50. or 60. yeres laste paste was their Church here in this realme or in any other parte of christendome VVhat particuler Church either here in Englande in the laste yere of Kyng Henry the eight his raigne or any other realme els can thei name that taught or receiued vniuersally throughout in all poinctes the doctrine that this presente Churche of Englande doeth now teache or from that daie a thousande yeres before that or from thence vnto the tyme of Christe and his Apostles If thei can not shewe any one suche Churche as I am well assured thei shall neuer be able to doe then it muste nedes followe that either Christe had no Church in the worlde al that tyme till now their commyng or elles it muste needes follow that their Churche is a new inuented and vpstert Church whiche with christes Primitiue church hath no agreans like as it shall moste plainly appeare vnto you by these profes followyng The aunswere In your laste consideration you doe inconsiderately alledge that you are not of our Churche but shewe no sufficient reason why you ought not to bee one of our Churche You saie we are departed from the churche in whiche we were baptised as though if a manne were Baptised in a Churche of heretikes he is bounde to remaine in the same Churche and heretical faithe of that Churche in whiche he was baptised so that if a manne were baptised in the Churche of Arrianes Nouatianes Donatistes Pelagians he might not forsake the faithe and Churche in whiche he was baptised to become a true Christian catholike A childe of seuen yere old maie see how slender a reason it is for a manne to continue in any Churche or Religion because he receiued baptisme therin For if a Papist maie not become a Protestāt because he was Baptised in the Popishe churche by the same reason a Protestant must not become a Papist if he were baptised in the Protestantes Churche which you your self by no meanes will graunte The seconde reason you bryng is of the diuersitye of churches the Lutherane the Zwingliane the Geneuian As though the diuersitie of some opinions not of the greatest importāce maketh diuers churches The churche of Salisburie the churche
it is Prophesied in the xij Chapiter of sainct Ihons Reuelation And yet for fiftie or sixtie yere agone it had been no harde matter to haue shewed you diuers members of our Churche bothe in Englande in Bohemia as th' historie of the church declareth at large Also in Fraunce at Merindoll and about Lyōs but these you will saie agreed not with vs in all poinctes but I will aunswere you thei agréed in the cheifest poinctes necessary to eternall saluation For whatsoeuer we are able to shewe for our Churche I am sure you are neuer able to shewe your self for your churche that whiche you require vs to shewe namely a churche that hath continued from this tyme vpwarde vnto the Apostles that taught vniformely and in all poinctes the doctrine that the Popishe Churche nowe teacheth Whiche thyng when you haue performed I will doe the like for oure Churche In the meane time that whiche is a sufficiente rule to finde out the true Churche by the iudgement of Saincte Augustine I will declare vnto you In his booke the vnitate ecclesiae Capi. 2. Inter nos autem Donatistat quaestio est vbi sit ecclesia Quid ergo facturi sumus In verbis nostris eam quaesituri sumus an in verbis capitis sui domini nostri Iesu Christi Puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum Betwene vs and the Donatistes saieth saincte Augustine the question is where the churche should bée What shall we doe then shall we seke her in our wordes or in the woordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that rather in his wordes we ought to seke her which is the truthe and beste knoweth his own bodie And in the. xvj chapiter of the same booke he writeth thus of the Donatistes Vtrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarū scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant That is whether thei haue the churche on their side let theim shewe none otherwise but by the Canonicall bookes of holy scriptures Many other suche testimonies are in S. Augustine by whiche it is plaine that he geueth this infallible rule to knowe the true churche to examine the doctrine therof onely by the scriptures But wheras you saie that Anabaptistes Libertines and Arians pretende the word of god and the primitiue Churche what meane you therby that we should forsake the worde of god the Primitiue churche by whiche all heretikes haue béen cōfuted what soeuer thei pretended For though heretikes pretende the scriptures yet onely by the scriptures thei are to be cōfuted though thei appeale to the iudgemente of the primitiue church yet by the primitiue church thei are condemned for heretikes I maie as well say that Arianes Libertines and Anabaptistes boste them selues to be the true Catholike Churche therefore wee must not allowe the true catholike churche It is pitie to see menne that would be coumpted wise and learned to reason so fondly and vnlearnedly For of all other reasons it is the vainest and feeblest shift that the Papistes vse to flie frō the scriptures to the aucthoritie of the Churche in confutation of heresies For there was neuer yet heresie did arise but there was as greate controuersie of the Churche as of the opinion for euery heretike boasteth as well of the Churche as of the scriptures but when all is dooen his bragges of bothe muste bee beaten doune onely by the scriptures But because you make so proude vauntes that you will so plainlie proue that our Churche hath none agreans with the primitiue churche of Christ in discourse of that controuersie with you I will sette for the bothe what is the Primitiue churche and how we agree therewith and I doubte not but that I shal bee able by the grace of God bothe to iustifie our cause againste your false accusations and also to ouerthrowe youre falshodde whiche you haue heaped vppe to ouerwhelme the truthe And as I haue confuted your sixe considerations which vnto you seme of greate importaunce so by Gods helpe I shall auoide all other youre calumniations in whiche with some subtiltie but more impudencie and moste of all impietie you goe aboute to intangle the consciences of suche as bee ignorante and vnlearned to withdrawe their obedience ▪ from the godly lawes of this realme whiche are established for the mainteinyng of Gods true Religion and the abolishyng of all Idolatrie and superstition The Papiste Argumentes gathered out of the Scriptures prouyng that this late reformed Englishe churche hath none agreans with the Primitiue churche of Christ. The aunswere The very title of your argumentes declareth of what force youre argumentes are Your reasons are tenne in noumber whiche if thei were all graūted to be true yet foloweth not this conclusion that our Churche hath no agreance with the Primitiue Churche of Christe excepte you would affirme that all the doctrine of the Primitiue Churche were comprehended in these tenne poinctes Again your owne Popishe Churche differeth in these tenne poinctes as muche from the Primitiue Churche as ours therefore by your owne Logike I will conclude that your Popish churche hath no agreance with the church of Christ. 1. For neither you haue all thinges common 2. neither dooe you sell your houses and landes to putte the price in common 3. Neither doe you make diuision to euery manne accordyng to his necessitie 4. Neither are all mēbers of your Churche so prouided for that none dooe begge 5. Neither doe you baptise onely in the name of Christe 6. Neither dooe you giue the holy ghost by laiyng on your handes 7. Neither dooe you restore theim to health whom you annoincte with oile beyng sicke 8. Neither dooe you make open confession of your synnes 9. Neither dooe you celebrate the Sacramente after supper 10. Neither dooe you abstaine from bloodde and strangled therefore by your owne reason you haue no agreance with the Primitiue Churche of Christe Or if you maie haue any agreance these differences notwithstanding why maie not we the same differences nothyng lettyng vs haue sufficient agremente therewith You see that either your argument is nothyng worthe or els you haue as little agreance with the Primatiue churche as we Your only refuge is this that it is not necessary for you to haue any agreance with the primitiue Churche And that is the opinion of all Papistes whiche is diligently to be noted that you disclaime of al title of the Primitiue Churche whiche you holde was but an infante and by addition of your doctrine and Ceremonies is growne to bee of womannes state As though Christ maried his Churche when she was vnder age and so the matrimonie was not ratified and consumated before the Pope had nourtured her in his schole vntill she came to yeres of discretion For it is as lawfull for me so to inferre vppon your allegorie as for you so to allegorise of her But that you maie the better vnderstande what
the Arians did agree with the Christen menne in theim bothe as in all Sacramentes and in all poinctes of praiyng sauing that the Arians did sing Gloria patri in filio and the Christian menne Gloria patri filio c. And therfore and for that onely poinct Ihō Chrysostome then beyng Bishop of Constantinople did appoincte vnto the christian men a seperate place and maner of praier from them as it appeareth in the sixth of the Historie Ecclesiastike And therefore the notable doctour S. Augustine doth conclude on thys wise saiyng that they shall not communicate in Sacramētes with vs whose doctrine we cannot approue and allowe The aunswere Your third consideration standeth vppon a foolishe fallation of Sophistrie called petitio principij whiche is whē a man will take that as true whiche his aduersarie will not graunte hym As you doe in this your argument where you take that for a true principle whiche you shall neuer be able to proue namely that we are Heretikes and Schismatikes And so you committe double folie Firste in prouyng that so diligentely whiche no manne will deny whiche is that a manne ought not to communicate in religion with Heretikes and secondly in bringing no proofe at all of that which all your aduersaries wil deny namely that thei are Heretikes or Schismatikes For you must first prooue that thei are suche before you can proue that you ought to auoide their societie The Papiste The fowerth consideration is that the receiuyng of this new booke of seruice is a condemnation of the olde wherby is taken away 5. of the. 7. Sacramentes the reall presence of Christes body in the Sacramente of the alter the sacrifice of the masse many traditions of the Apostles as the holiyng of the Fonte oile and Chrisma in Baptisme and Confirmation the making of the signe of the Crosse praiers for the deade and vnto sainctes All sacramentall and godly cerimonies frequented in the vniuersal churche of Christe and brougt into this realme with the faithe of Christe by S. Augustine and here by hym established as suer signes and tokens of christian faieth like as the holy S. Bede witnesseth in his firste boke de gestis Anglorum in the 25.29.30 chapiters beside that all the foresaide thinges haue been alwaie approued vsed and allowed throughout the vniuersal church of christ And therfore saieth S. Augustine all these thinges whiche haue been receiued in the vniuersall Churche of Christe and approued by the vse and consente therof ought not to be ouerthrowen nor yet to be chaūged by the iudgemente of one priuate person be his learnyng and liuyng neuer so good nor yet by the Bishoppes of any one prouince or countrie when thereby they shoulde breake the vnitie of Gods spirite whiche is the chief treasure in his Churche commended by our sauiour Christe vnto his Apostles wishynge and praiynge the same vnitie to be amongest theim whiche was betwixt him and God Ioan 17 the father The Apostle S. Paule tought the Corinthians aboue all thinges to obserue this vnitie and willed the Romaines that with one minde and one mouth they shoulde glorifie god And in the Epistle to the Ephesians he besought theim most entirely to obserue this vnitie Again S. Augustine saieth these thinges whiche the vniuersall churche doth teache therfore are to be obserued and kepte of all menne because the churche which is the spouse of Christ hath the full aucthoritie of her husband Christ and suche gouernement also of the holy ghost that she cannot consent but to true thinges nor she cannot commaunde but onely suche thinges whiche are both holy holsome and good And farther the same S. Augustine saieth that in the ministratiō of the Sacramentes and in the manner of praiyng vsed of Preestes there must be an vniformitie obserued in Christes catholike Churche that by their Lawe and maner of praiyng there may be established the lawe of beleuyng And lest that the lawe and maner of praiyng being chaunged may also bring foorthe a chaunge and alteration of faieth like as it hath so proued in thys realme Beside that S. Ambrose doth thinke that there can not bee the faieth where Schisme is for albeit that schismatikes may haue faieth towardes God yet they cannot haue faieth towarde the Churche of God whom they suffer to bee dismembred and discerped in peeces For wheras our sauiour Christe suffered for his Churche and the Churche is the mysticall bodie of Christe how therfore may thei haue faith in christ by whom his Passion is made frustrate and his mysticall bodie drawen in peeces And therefore woulde not we shoulde chaunge an order set or a custome of Christes churche For albeit saieth he the reason or cause of a custome may be sought for yet must it be so sought for that the custome thereby be not infirmed or broken for the searche may not bee made vnto destruction but vnto aedification wherby thou maist better obserue the custome when thou arte assured of the cause and reason therof I do praise thee saieth Tertuliane whiche firste doeth beleue the custome to be obserued before it hath learned the cause and reason why and wherfore The aunswere In your fowerth consideration you should haue likewise considered that suche thynges as are graunted of bothe partes nede small proofe and that those matters whiche are in controuersie should be substancially cōfirmed As for example How necessarie vnitie is for the Churche of Christe no manne doubteth so it bee in truthe and not in falshed for there is vnitie emong the mooste wicked but not in truthe and honestie On the other side that there be fiue sacramentes more then the boke alloweth that there is a carnall presence in the Sacrament of the Lordes bodie and bloude that there is or ought to be a Sacrifice in the masse ye bring not one worde of proof Concernyng Ceremonies whiche you call traditions of the Apostles you saie in deede a little although to little purpose and yet so confusely and out of all good order that you seme rather to confounde then to instructe your simple reader for what an hochpotte is this in the middes of your Sacramentes and Sacramentalles to choppe in praiers for the deade and inuocation of sainctes whiche bée articles of doctrine and not Ceremoniall obseruations Againe when you haue rehersed by name diuers Ceremonies as oile and chrisme in Baptisme your maner of confirmation the signe of the Crosse and all other your Sacramentalls and Ceremonies you bryng in certain broken and vnperfecte sentences of Doctours whiche speake generally of Ceremonies vsed in the churche in their age and doe not shew that your Ceremonies were vsed then in suche maner as you vse them now which is a meere mockerie of your readers For wheras you doe comprehende thē all vnder the name of Traditions of the Apostles if you be a man of suche learning as you would seme to be I dare saie in your behalfe you will bee ashamed to come to triall of this poincte that
of Yorke and the churche of Bangor had some diuersitie in their maner of seruing God and yet you will saie thei were all one Popishe Churche But to the purpose you recite more names then there be diuersities of opinions For Zwinglius and Caluine in the matter of the Sacrament whiche you shoote at are all one and Luther differeth from them And yet the difference is not so great but that thei bee all of one Catholike Churche because thei agree in the onely foundation Iesus Christe and in all opinions that are necessary to Saluation although Luther in his opinion of the Sacramente as a man was deceiued And that diuersities of opinions so longe as the principall groundes of faithe bee obserued vncorrupted doeth not make diuersitie of churches you maie easily see by this example S. Cypriā and all the Churches of Affrica were in this error that such as were baptised by heretikes should be baptised again which was a very perilous errour Cornelius Stephanus the Bishops of Rome with the Churches of Europe were in the contrary opinion And yet no man euer refused S. Cypriane to bee a member of the Catholike churche nor iudged the churches of Affrica that followed his errour to bee of any other thē of the vniuersall church of Christ emong whom were many martyres and godly men which liued died in the same error Now cōpare Cypriane Luther the one erring in the Sacrament of Baptisme the other in the Sacramente of the Supper if the errour of th' one did not separate hym from the communiō of the catholike church no more cā the error of the other Whiche thing if it were well weighed would remoue that stōblyng blocke that troubleth many weake persones but can hinder no learned man cōcernyng the controuersie of Luther and Zwinglius The third reason is that we are departed from the Churche of Geneua because we ascribe supreme gouernement in Ecclesiasticall matters to the Quéenes highnes Firste we must bee bolde to tell you that as we reuerence and honour all particulare Churches where true religion is established so we doe not grounde our self vpon either the opinion or custome of any one but onely vpon the worde of God and so farre foorthe to followe euery one as thei come neare to the same rule But whereas you would sette that excellente godly Churche of Geneua at variaunce with vs aboute the supremacie your childishe quarrellyng shall easily appeare to all menne You alledge Caluine againste vs in twoo places one in his Institutions an other in his Comentarie of the Prophet Amos. A man in deede from whom we would bee lothe to dissente excepte it were for a greate cause A manne of suche godlie learnyng and profounde knoweledge in diuinitie as all the Papistes that euer were are not worthie to carrie his bookes after hym But before I aunswer you I muste admonishe you that either your copies whiche came to my handes were verie muche corrupted or els you haue recited those places by hearesaie rather then by your owne obseruatiō Your copies sendeth me to the viij Chapiter of his Institutions namyng no booke and to the fowerth Chapiter of Amos whereas that you speake of the one place is in the fowerth boke and twelue Chapiter of his Institutions the other in the seuen Chapiter of Amos. So that in deede it was more labour to seeke your places then to make aunswere to them Concerning the firste I meruaile you were not ashamed to alledge Caluine againste vs where he saieth that Kynges and Princes are subiecte to the discipline of the Churche as Theodosius was content to be excommunicated by saincte Ambrose for the murther he had committed in Thessalonica which none of vs denieth and doe not remember how substauncially he proueth that godlie Princes haue aucthoritie and ought to maintain true religion by lawes decrees and iudgementes whiche is all the supreme gouernemente that wee ascribe to the Quéenes highnes And as for the place of Caluine vpon Amos the truthe is this Caluine findeth fault not with kyng Hēry but with those that did ascribe that title vnto hym and sheweth for what reason he misliked the same Not that he denied his lawfull aucthoritie whiche was meant by that title of all his godly and true subiectes but because Steuen Gardener bishop of Winchester by false vnderstandyng thereof declared that he vnderstode nothing therby but the tyrannie whiche the Pope vsurpeth ouer the churche to be translated vnto the kyng And therfore at a solemne cōference at Ratisbone in Germanie after the Popes aucthoritie by acte of Parliament was abolished out of the realme he defended all Popishe religion whiche remained vnreformed to bee good and godlie because it was established by the kings aucthoritie who was supreme head of the churche He disputed not by reasons neither cared he for the testimonies of scriptures but saied it was in the kynges power to abrogate all Lawes and establishe what he thought good in the churche as to forbidde Priestes marriage to forbidde laie menne the vse of the Cuppe in the Churche and all other suche matters he saied were in the kynges aucthoritie This he saied of the Kynges power abroade and howe he abused that noble Prince at home to make the Acte of sixe Articles and other thynges of like effect there be many yet aliue that can remember But seeyng this title of supremacie dooeth so muche offende you I praie you lette me demaunde one question of you Who did first inuent it here in England Or who did first ascribe it to kyng Henry Was it not the whole Popishe Cleargie of Englande when thei were caste in the Premunire for mainteinyng the power Legantine of Cardinall Wolsey and submittyng theim selues vnto the Kynge they flattered hym with that title and offered hym a greate somme of money for their pardon as witnesseth Halle and Grafton in their histories and ther be yet aliue many that can remēber it So that if there were any faulte in it you should blame them and not vs for it For so farforthe as beyng rightly vnderstoode it declareth the lawfull power of the Prince wee did and doe yelde vnto it but not in Steuen Gardiners sence whiche Caluin in the place by you alledged doeth cōfute After this you require vs to shewe you a Churche where vnto you maie resorte whiche hath continued euen since Christ whiche if it can not bee shewed you conclude in th' ende that Christ had no churche or els our Churche is not Christes Churche Againe where our Church was fiftie or sixtie yeres agon If a manne had asked of Elias where the churche of God was in his tyme he could not haue made aunswere and yet God had his Churche in Elias tyme The Churche is not alwayes apparaunte to the iyes of the blynde worlde in whiche she is a straunger but is compelled sometymes to flie into the wildernesse out of the sight of men by the persecutiō of the deuill and his members as
Basile affirmeth that it was a tradition of the Apostles that who so euer did not so he shoulde be deposed therfore wheras our reformatours doe but sprincle a little water in the foreheade of the partie baptized it may be quickly espied that thei follow not the primitiue churche The aunswere Our sauiour Christ commaundeth vs to Baptise in the name of the Father and of the Soonne and of the holie Ghoste whiche whether it bée by dippyng the bodie into the water or by powryng water vpon the bodie the misticall signification of washyng is sufficiently expressed and so longe the Baptisme is right as for the nōber of dippinges is nothyng materiall We read in the scriptures diuers formes of washing The Eunuche was Baptised by Philip goyng in naked into a Riuer or Brooke And so Baptised Ihon in Iordan Other that were Baptised in their houses it is moste like that water was powred on them as Cornelius and them that were with hym And the keper of the prison with his housholde Actes xvj And as for the Ceremonie of thrise dippyng although it was vsed of many to signifie the Trinitie yet was it not generall nor of any necessitie For in the fowerth Counsaile of Toledo it was determined that all was one whether a childe were Baptized with three dippynges or with one alone And yet it was there decreed vpon a good consideration that in Spaine thei should vse but one dippyng The woordes are these in the fowerth Counsaile Toletane and the fiueth Canone Ne tamen haereticis videamur consentire qui tertio mergum dum eorum morem seruamus cautum est ne in Hispaenia fiat baptismus nisi in vna mersione that is to saie Least we should seme to agree with heretikes whiche vse to dippe thrise while wee reteine their maner of baptisyng it is decreed that no Baptisme in Spaine bee ministered but with one onely dippyng In this decree of the Coūsaile twoo thynges especially are to bee noted Firste that the three dippynges was not alwaies and in all places obserued as a necessarie matter and therefore your argumente is fallen to the grounde Secondely that it is profitable to alter and chaunge suche Ceremoeies as are vsed of heretikes that wee seme not to agree with theim in any thyng in whiche it is lawful for vs to disagree And for this consideration doe we refuse to dip thrise because we would not seme to agrée with you whiche are heretikes although wee acknowledge that of it self it is a thyng indifferente to dippe twise or thrise or ones or not at al to dip but onely to poure on water in signe of that spirituall ablution whiche is represented by that Sacramente of Baptisme Wherefore you haue a verie quicke sight that can espie a knotte in a Rushe and of so small a gnat to make so great an Elephante as though all Christianitie stoode in thrise dippyng of a child in Baptisme whiche I haue proued not onely not to haue been alwaies obserued but also by decree of a Counsaill to haue been expressely forbidden Which Ceremonie although it bee noumbred emong the canons commonly called of the Apostles yet hath he a meane iudgement in antiquitie that can not descerne theim from Apostolike writynges But because you bryng in the Tradition of the Apostles you muste nedes giue me leaue to presse you with the same aucthoritie and to shewe that you your self obserue not the Traditions of the Apostles In the vj. Canon of the Apostles it is commaunded that no Bishoppe Prieste nor Deacon shall put awaie his wife vnder colour of religion and thei that doe so shall be excomunicate And in the ninthe and tenthe Canons it is decreed that whosoeuer is presente at the Communion and dooeth not communicate that he should bee excommunicate How these Canons of the Apostles if you will needes haue them so called be obserued in your Popishe Clergie and your priuate Masse what nede I to rehearse And yet you agree with the primitiue Churche in all thynges and we haue none agreaunce therewith at all The Papiste Thirde in the Primitiue churche they vsed Oyle and Chrisma in the ministratiō of diuers Sacramentes which christ hymselfe did ordaine and sainctifie the night before his passion as witnesseth S. Cypriane And his Apostles did commende the same vnto the Churche by their traditions as witnesseth sainct Basile and S. Augustine whiche these our reformatours will none of The aunswere In the Primitiue Churche there was not so many diuerse Sacramentes as you speake of but onely the Sacramente of Baptisme and of the bodie and bloode of christe and in neither of these was there any institution or vsage of oile chrisme And although in the later tyme ceremonies increased that oyle was vsed in baptisme yet was there not so many Sacramentes for Augustine saieth vnto Ianuaerius Epis. 118. Vnde Sacramentis numero paucissimis obseruatione facillimis significatione praestantissimis ▪ societatem noui populi colligauit sicut est Baptismus Trinitatis nomine consecratus communicatio corporis Christi sanguinis ipsius si quid aliud in scripturis canonicis cōmendatur Wherfore saieth Augustine God hath bounde the societie of his newe people with Sacramentes in number fewest in obseruation easiest in significatiō most excellent as is baptisme consecrated in the name of the Trinitie the communion of the bodie and blood of Christe and if any thing els be commended in the Canonicall scriptures The same Augustine and Chrisostome also vpon the water and blood that issued out of Christes side do gather that the Sacramentes of the church flowed out of his side namely Baptisme and the Supper of the lord Aug. Hom. in Ioann 20. Chrysostom ad Neophytos Augustine also in the thirde booke de doctrina christiana Cap. 9. rehearseth but these twoo Sacramentes speakyng of those that are properly called Sacramentes for otherwise both he and other auncient writers extende the name of Sacrament to al ceremonies And yet Gregorie accompteth washyng of feete to be a Sacramente as Baptisme and the Supper whiche is no sacramente with you And as for the ceremonie of annointyng in baptisme it is as lawfull for vs to abrogate as for you to omitte the drinke of milke and Honie after baptisme other such ceremonies which you knowe were vsed as well as oyle and Chrisme But our Sauiour Christe the night before his Passion did ordeine and sanctifie Oyle and Chrisme for suche purposes I meruaile what Cipriane dare be so bolde to affirme it séeyng the Euangelistes make no mention thereof and here againe if you hadde noted the place of Cipriane wee might better haue considered of his aucthoritie Diuerse writinges are set forth in his name whiche were neuer any of his workes The Papiste Fowerth S. Basile saieth that all determiminations and instructions which are preached and kepte in the Primitiue churche of Christe we haue receiued theim partely of the scriptures and partly by the traditions of the Apostles whiche both hath
like force and strength vnto godlynes As for example the instructions which thei haue that trust in the name of Iesus Christe to signe them selues with the signe of Christes crosse to praie towardes the Easte to vse wordes of inuocation at the shewing of the Breade and the Cuppe in the holy Euchariste to blesse the water of the Fonte the Oyle of the holy vnction and that he also which is baptized should be thrise dipped in the water and suche other like thinges whiche are taught and obserued in the Sacramente of Baptisme as to renounce the Deuill and his angels salte spitle and the exorcisme there made to the expulsion of the deuill All these thinges and other like whiche are tought and obserued in christes churche we haue theim saieth sainct Basile ether of the scriptures or els by the tradition of the Apostles whiche are of like force and strēgth vnto pietie and godlynes wheras the reformatours of this English church do esteme and iudge al the premises for impietie and vngodlines The aunswere In this your fowerth argumente if it maie bee called an argumente you huddle vp a number of Ceremonies together all whiche out of Basile you would proue to bee Traditions of the Apostles In deede Basile in the. xxvij Chapiter of his booke De spiritu sancto is driuē to this shifte that either he must acknowledge many suche vnfruictfull Ceremonies as in his tyme were crepte into the churche to be vnprofitable or els to flie to the tradition of vnwritten verities The same in effecte ceaceth Augustine and yet neither of bothe was so ignoraunte but that at suche time as thei did throughly consider either the dignitie of the holie scriptures or the natures of suche humaine Traditions thei iudged otherwise of the whole matter For Basile in his moralles Diffinit xxvi saieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. that it behoueth euery woorde and deede to bee aucthorised by the testimonie of the scripture inspired of God bothe for the certaine perswasion of the good and the confusion of the euill And in the 8. diffini 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. If all that is not of faith is synne as the Apostle saieth and faithe is of hearyng and hearyng by the woorde of God what so euer is beside the diuine scripture beyng not of faithe is synne Vpon whiche conclusion a manne maie inferre that all suche Traditions as Basile before defended beyng beside the scriptures ar sinne The same Basile in his brief diffinitions to this question whether it be profitable for theim that come newlie to the faithe immediately to bee instructed out of the scriptures Maketh this aunswere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. It is bothe conueniente and necessarie that euery manne far his necessarie vse should learne out of the diuine scriptures bothe that he maie bee certainely perswaded in his Religion and also that he bee not before accustomed to humaine Traditions Let this therfore suffice for sainct Basile to aunswere hymself Saincte Augustine also in his 118. Epistle where he speaketh moste fauourably for Traditions hath these woordes Sed hoc nimis doleo quod multa quae in diuinis libris saluberrimè praecepta sunt minus curantur tam multis praesumptionibus sic plena sint omnia vt grauius corripiatur qui per octauas suas terram nudo pede tetigerit quam qui mētem vinolentia sipelire est But this saieth Augustine dooeth greue me to muche that many thinges whiche in Gods boke are moste wholsemly commaunded are lesse regarded and all thynges are so full of presumptions that he is more sharpely reproued whiche hath touched the yearth with his bare foote in tyme of his vtas then he that hath buried his mynde with dronkennes And in the same place he saieth of Traditions Quamuis enim neque hoc inueniri possit quomodo contra fidem sint ipsam tamen religionem quam paucissimis manifestissimis celebrationum Sacramentis misericordia dei esse liberam voluit seruilibus oneribus premunt vt tolerabilior sit conditio Iudaeorum qui etiam si tempus libertatis non agnouerint legalibus tamen sarcinis nō humanis praesumptionibus subijciuntur that is to saie For although this can not bee founde how thei are contrary to the faithe yet thei oppresse with sclauishe burdeins the religion it self whiche the mercie of God would haue to bée free with moste fewe and manifeste Sacramentes of celebrations So that the state of the Iewes is more tollerable then ours for although thei haue not acknowledged the tyme of libertie yet thei are subiecte to burthens laied on theim by the lawe not to humaine presumptions By this you see Augustines right iudgemente of suche vnprofitable Ceremonies and Traditions Whiche althoughe Basile and he cōiecture and gesse to haue béen receiued of the Apostles because thei knewe none other originall of theim yet it dooeth not followe that thei were deliuered by the Apostles in deede For many of theim if your owne aucthours dooe not lye were instituted by diuers Popes of Rome long after the age of the Apostles And some it is plaine were inuented by heretikes For the firste that we read of in any auncient and authenticall writer that hadde in reuerence the signe of the Crosse were the Valentiniane heretikes as witnesseth Irenaeus libri primi Capit. 1. whiche thei called Oron crucem confirmatiuam the strengthenyng Crosse. And abused the testimonies of sainct Paule as you Papistes doe where he saieth verbum crucis c. The woorde or preachyng of the crosse mihi non eueniat gloriari c. God forbidde that I should reioyce but in the Crosse of Christe But afterwarde true Christians vsed that signe to testifie vnto Heathen menne that thei were Christians and were not ashamed of the ignominious death of Christ whiche the Gētiles did dispightfully caste in their teeth and at length it grewe to a meare superstition and laste of all to moste horrible Idolatrie when the Image of the Crosse was worshipped sensed and praied vnto Praier towarde the Easte was vsed of the Christians in the aunciente Church to testifie that thei differed from the Iewes who praied towarde the West least thei should seem to worshippe the Sunne risyng as the Gentiles did And although woordes of inuocation were vsed at the shewyng of the bread and the Cuppe yet was there no inuocation of the Sacramentall breade and Cuppe but of God. Of the other Ceremonies of anoinctyng and thrise dipping hath been spoken before That the Apostles vsed no suche blessyng of the water of Baptisme as you doe it is manifeste when thei Baptised in euery Riuer and Brooke that thei came to In dedè thei did cōsecrate the water for that time when they vsed it to serue for the holy vse but did putte no holines into it which should remain after that baptisme was ministred with it as you doe As for the stipulatiō of renouncyng the deuill c. is in dede the doctrine of