retaynid in a reformed Church saith Certe vt nulla est prorsus Christi Belial conuentio ita syncere Christiani nihil penitus ferre poterunt Antichristi Certaynlie as the are is vtterlie no agrement of Christ Belial so syncere Christians can abide nothing at all of Antichrist The examiner The fourth foundation or grounde that you lay is That you must needes cast away aÌ„d forsake all those thinges as haue ben brought into the Church besides or coÌ„trary to the Scripture This platte you enlarge with a dosen seuerall sentences all which paynes you myght well haue saued yf you had not mynded to hane ben bytyng and snappyng by the way at your superiours This trueth all faithfull Christians confirme with you That coÌ„cerning faith and doctrine concerning remission of sinnes and eternal saluation nothing ought to be taught or receyued which is contrary or not grounded in the Canonicall Scriptures 2. Tim. 3 For holy writ geuen by the inspiration of God is not only a lyght to our feete as Dauid saith Psal 119. but also so profitable that thereby the man of God maye be absolute being made perfecte vnto all good workes as Sainct Paule testifieth And though hit be most true touchyng the substance of Christian religion yet the maner and order of setting of it foorth is not particulary expressed 1. Cor. 14 but generally left to the disposition of Christes Churche from time to time accordiÌ„ng to those wordes of Saint Paule ¶ Let all thinges be donne comely and orderly wherein whatsoeuer shal be lawfully done to those purposes is not to be iudged beside the Scriptures The Aunsuuerer It wear follie to striue whith you in vaine wordes and malicious construing yow will nedes haue the victorie The scripture yow wil haue perfect onelie thouching substans of Christian religion The maner order of setting it forth is not particularie expressed But left generallie to the disposition of the church wee graunt but so that this disposition is barred in whith manye condicions that nothing superfluus or superstitious be brought in nothing offensiue be decreed all thinges be order lie and directlie apoyncted and that for edifing which condicions seing they want in your pretensed orders wee must nedes saye ar they beside the scripture The examiner As fro example Fasting is commaunded in Gods worde But what dayes we shoulde fast Aug. Epist 86 or what daâ—es we shoulde not being not there determined yf the Christian Churche decree it is not besydes the Scripture The ministring of Baptisme the Lordes super is commaunded in Gods worde But what dayes what tymes what places in what coÌ„panye with what prayers before and after yf the Christian Churche decree it is not besides the Scriptures And accordyng to this Sainct Augustine wryteth touching the receuyng of the Sacrament of the body bloud of Christ fasting in the mornyng Epist 118. Saluator ideo non praecepit quo dein ceps ordine sumeretur vt Apostolis per quos Ecclesias dispositurus erat seruaret hunc locum Our Sauiour therfore hath not coÌ„maunded in what order the Sacrament shoulde be afterwarde receyued because he myght reserue this place to his Apostoles by whom he woulde order the Churches Thus also the preachyng of the Go spell is commaunded in Gods worde but howe to do this office in Pulpit or otherwayes in morninglor after noone and so forth yf the Christian Churche decree it is not besides the scripture The lyke may be sayde concerning lawes politike of Princes affayres and traffike betwixt man man whose groundes and rules are in Gods worde and yet the particular circumstaunces in practising them beyng diuers in sundry Countreys according to the iudgement of magistrates are not besides scriptures when al those diuersities haue Gods worde for theyr generall rule and ende The aunsuerer So supersticion be awaye other condicioÌ„s obserued a lawe may be made off fasting prouided all wais that by no humaine constitution whichis besidethe word off god meÌ„s coÌ„scieÌ„cis be eÌ„taÌ„gled which werecoÌ„trarie to the word of god RemeÌ„bre what August writith of the fast of the Maniches which you maye se in the beginiÌ„g of this boke wherbie wee gather this general rule alwais iÌ„ this coÌ„trouersie to bemarkid that no Ceremonie is to be borowed of the aduersarie Homel pri ieun Iud And also coÌ„sidere the sayning of Chrysostome conserninge the fast of the Iewes Tel not me saith he they fast but shew me that they fast according to the will of god which if they do not then is their fast more wicked then anye dronkennes Likewise for ministriÌ„g the Sacraments order may be taken by the curch so it be most to edification according to the time place and compagnie Touching the tradicion of the Apostles that it is necessarie to receue the Communion ffasting if yow dare defend it by sainct Augustins authoritye yow maie wee suppose yow will not defend all the doctrine that was commonlie receiued in his time by him thaught much lesse all rites ceremonies To be short the scripture hath lefl nothing so free or in different to mans lawes but it must agree with those generalle condicions before rehersed such like The Examiner And blessed be God our times are here suche Deut. 24 that no man in our Churches presumeth to adde to Gods word as acknowledging the perfitnes therof to our saluation And that our gouernours in the feare of God Rom. 15 eschewe Saules disobedience and by righteous clemencie flee the tirannie of Reboam and through the direction of Gods spirite walke zelously in the pathes of Godly Ezechias in all those thinges whiche they finde wrytteÌ„ in the boke of godes lawe to appertayne to his true seruice aÌ„d worship not so much weyghiÌ„g the displeasures of worldly potentates as the curses that the most mightie God powreth vpon all suche as truely and sincerely regarde not his religioÌ„ and glory The Aunsuuerer Wee giue thankes to god for our good gouerners desiering him to encresse in them those god qualities which yow commend the perfect obediens of Dauid to hate the verie name of Idolls the righteous clemencie of Salamon to maintaine the godlie and punish the wicked the godlie zeale of Ezechias to breake the brasen serpeÌ„t and doe all thing accordiÌ„g to the precise rulees of godes word The examiner And blessed be the name of the Lorde for euer that hath stirred vp such Bishops and preachers among vs whiche neyther haue nor do flatter Princes to set vp their pleasures aboue the will and commaundement of God though some surmise the coÌ„trary As Audiani Epi. lib. 3 Tom prim certaine sectaries lay de to the Fathers charge of Nicaene couÌ„ sell that they tooke an order in the troublesome dissention for keping Easter day to please and flatter Constantine the Emperour whereas they did it vpon iust consideration and to auoyde scisme The aunsuuerer God be praysed for allgood Bishoppes and preachers
ceremoniall law of god gyuith place to the lawe of charitie Christ touchith the lepor which the lawe forbad It is a godly harmonie when the Princes lawe and charitie agree and a great disordre whaÌ„ they Iarr Therfore in thinges indifferent wee muste not onelie haue oure owne consciences free but also take heed that we giue none example wherbye they that haue not knowledg haue theire consciences entangled The examiner Fyrst the Lorde God be praised the religion of Christ standeth in no such daunger as you beare men in hande it doth by putting men in minde to trye those constitutions that the wise men of the whole Realme haue well hoped will serue to some good purpose in this congregation of Christ The aunsuuerer what daunger the religion of Christ staÌ„deth in let the reioysinge and triumphe of the Papistes for the executing of these constitutions testifie what daunger also hangith ouer the Church for receauinge these Romishe rites manie wyse men lament to see Yf a surplefe may be worne whye not an albe yf a Coape why not a vestiment stole funell and chesseble yf Cappe tippit and gowne whye not a shauen crowne affriers a monkes a ChanoÌ„s weede why maye not all the Ceremonies of poperie be receyued there ende being changed for order and decensie c. Yf wee receue one wee see not how to staye our consciencis from the rest Therfore it is a manifest daunger that hangithe ouer the Church by receyuing anie of these It is an olde verse and trew Princ cipiis obsta Yf yow obiect that the Prince wil vrge no more yet the inconueniens is neuer the lesse which wee may not admit to geue so euill a president to our posteritie The examiner Then no wittye or Godly man can iustly iudge our religion to be but Princes pleasures yf Princes through great deliberation make lawes for the Church call vppon the practize of the same You are not ignoraunt what this smelleth of that is either of Donatistrie or Papistrie which sectes thinke alwayes the true catholiques to geue to much to Princes and Magistrates when as by Gods worde they acknowledge them to be supreme gouernours not onlye to see lawes framed by the Cleargie put in vse but to disanul the naughtie and to decree good and godly The Aunsuuerer If anie thing be admitted for Princes pleasures which is not permitted by godes worde manie muste thinke that some parte of our religion were nothinge but Princes pleasure wee neythet take from PriÌ„ces authorities wythe Donatistes and Papistes nor adde vnto it wythe Clawbackes and fflatterers But geue vnto it asmuch as godes lawe alloweth it yow are not ignoraunt it smellith raither of Donatistrie to reiecte your bretherne for a trifling and preâ—ended matter as you calle hit and of papistrie to defend popishe tradiciones agaiÌ„st the simplitie and sinceritie of godes worde The examiner Thirdlie he hath traueiled but simply in Scripture who reasoneth from the abolishing of Moyses ceremonies to the plucking of all good orders out of the Churche For though Christ being the body of all those shadowes hath fulfilled them so that we neede not to feare the curse pronounced vpon all them that do not abide in all thinges that were written in the lawe yet we are not forbidden to vse some one of them yf it might edifie the Churche of Christ And yf they be by all waye forbidden yet no learned man will gather tha no decent fassions are needfull in the Churche Last of all who seeth not that these few orders now to be obserued are not ioyned as figures or shadowes of any thing to come but as some meanes yf it myght be for a tyme to set forwarde the building of God The aunsuerer He hath well traueled in the Scriptures that reasoneth frome the abolishing of Moyses Ceremonies to the abolishing of all Popish Ceremonies For those ye meane by your god orders And so Caluin A man no simple scollar in Scripture hathe traueled to reasone as aperithe cap 13 u 3 in his exposition vpon the Actes of the Apostles Nunquam satis constat tales ceremonias nec vela esse nec sepulchra quibus tegitur Christus sed foetida potius stercora qui bus obruta est syncera fides religio Qui promiscue faciunt liberuÌ„ earum vsum longe plus Papae arrogant quam Deus legi suae concedat De Missa similibus spurcitiis quae manifestaÌ„ in se idololatriaÌ„ continent dicere nihil attinet That is now seing it is sufficientlie knowen that suche Ceremonies are neyther vayles nor sepulchers by which Christ is couered but raither smelliÌ„g douÌ„g by which the sincere faythe aÌ„dreligioÌ„ hath bene ouerwheliÌ„ed They which make the vse of them indifferend to be ffree arrogat much more to the Pope theÌ„ God grauÌ„teth to his owne lawe CoÌ„serning Masse aÌ„d suche lyke filthines which coÌ„teynith in theÌ„ manifestest idolatrie it is no nede to speake This is Caluines mynde And the Churches which were reformed by his aduise wer neuer so wyse to make good ptositable orders of the stinking Doung Hilles of Popish Ceremonies And Peter Martyr one that hath somthinge traueled in Scripture is of the same Iudgement Answeringe the obiection of the NicodemiaÌ„s Concerning Ieuish Ceremonies saing they are not to be compared whith inuentiones of man as are popishe Ceremonies and therfore not for anie tyme to be retayned Iud. 1. f. 34. The examiner The ende of these groundes is this That you feariÌ„g these garmeÌ„tes shoulde be thought â—ecessary you vtterlie refuse to admit them This opinion of necessitie which you phantasie neyther was annexed to these at the begynnyng neyther any wyse or learned man in this Church maynteineth it neyther is it nowe by any meanes confirmed but plainely the contrary is protested taught and done The aunsuuerer Our ffeare is not for Wyse and learnid meÌ„ but for our posteritie which shal be confirmed by our example in the opinion of necessitie that they haue before or may herafter conceiue of them The examiner Howe vnnecessarie soeuer you woulde make men beleue that vniformitie in outwarde apparell among Ecclesiasticall ministers were Of out vuard apparell as by the whiche you woulde proue they can not be knowen yet you can not be ignoraunt but that suche thinges were vnder Ecclesiasticall discipline wherof euen touching apparell and ornamentes Ciprian folowing his maister Tertullian saith after great commendation therof Hanc sectari salubre est auersari ac negligere laethale Ter de vir vela To folowe this discipline it is a healthsome thing but to turne from it and neglect it is as daungerous as death In this time Tertullian sharpely reprehended a Bishop that suffered a widowe to sit without a vayle in the Church among other widowes Niceph lib. 9. cap. 45. To. pr. con Sin Gang. Eulalius also a Bishop did cast Eustachius a Priest out of the Churche because he vsed an apparell Qui sacerdotem non deceret whiche was
flockes wee trust that they which can defend the cause alone with out vs will prouide for the Church with out vs which God graunt The examiner Last of all you request two thynges Tit. pri Rom 14. The one That you may kepe your conscience vndefiled This your petition in some thinges touching the worshyp of God myght haue his place But in these matters which you call indifferent what is it that shoulde defyle you The thing hit celf or your weake opinion of it The thyng it selfe doth not pollute you For as sainct Paule sayth to the pure 1. Cor. 8 all thinges are pure And agrine Nothing is commō or vncleane of it selfe Nowe as concernyng your weakenes thākes be to God that which the same S. 1. Cor. 8. Paule reporteth of the Corinthes may be verified of you we all haue knowledge And we are sure that an Idoll is nothing in the worlde and that there is none other God but one It were to be wished and would to God there were no examples now of it that none of them which pretende herin a straitnes of conscience Math. 23 did straine a Gnat and swallowe a Camell The aunsuuerer Last of all yow repete youre principalls so often craued and yet neuer graunted that these thinges are indifferent then that there is no waye to spotte our consciencis vnlesse they were weake as though they may not be spotted by giuing offense to others we maruell wyth what learninge and consciēs yow alledge Saincte Paulls affirmation that which was but his aduersaries obiection wee haue all knowledg when immediatlie after in plaine wordes he denieth it to be trew sayeng all mē haue not knowledge Yf anie of our iudgemēt in this matter straine at a gnatt or swalloweth A Cāmell we haue not nor will not take vpon vs to defend them The examiner Next you require freedom to reach your flockes by doctrine This thing your bounden obedience may easilie obtaine where as by your owne wifulnes you depriue your selues therof Then you would go before your shepe in that which you haue thaught If it be as farre as becommeth your owne persons and degree you shall deserue thankes whensoeuer you perfourme it For though it chaunce so oftentimes that many thinges are to be taught of them selues indifferent yet in your example it shall not be lawefull for you to vse them before your paroeces as you list Meete is it that Christian people heare diuers times of the freedome of conscience in meates places times and dayes and yet neither yow nor they ought to disturbe politicall order lawfully taken The aunsuuerer Yet againe we depriue our selues whan all the worlde knoweth we are depriued by others and wolde gladlie parte from our liuing vpon condicion we might preach Christ purelie S. Paull was gladde that Christ was preached wheather it were of occasion or good will God graunt the same mind to all our Bishops and magistrates our requests were made in humble suet and were of the fathers of the Clergie them selues thought resonable we hope the Quenes Maiestie will giue a more mercifull answer then yow haue who haue bene in all your treatise against vs your poore bretherne a cruell Orator The examiner Whiche disturbaunce of publique quiet in rites and ordinaunces which may be for the varietie of places diuers and yet to be straitly obserued what a great offence it is not only the Scriptures may teache you the vsage of Ghristes true Church but also the determination of this Church in Englande both agreed vpon in kyng Edwarardes dayes also testified and subscribed by them selues who nowe woulde gaynsay their owne doynges then The wordes which the whole Sinode were well pleased withall wherunto all the Cleargies handes are set to be these It is not necessary that tradicions and ceremonies be in all places one or vtterly lyke for at all tymes they haue ben dyuers and maye be chaunged according to the diuersies of Countreys tymes and mens maners so that nothing be ordered agaynst the worde of God In the articles agreed in the last Sinode VVhosoeuer through his priuate iudgement wyllyngly and purposely doth openly breake the traditions and ceremonies of the Church which be not repugnaunt to the word of God and be ordeyned and approuued by common auctoritie ough to be rebuked openly that other may feare to do the like as one that offen deth against the common order of the Church and hurteth the auctoritie of the Magistrate and woundeth het consciences of the weake brethen After these Godly mens iudgementes if you go before your flocke in this quiet maner your example veryly shall edifie much Thus therfore if we all shal be faithful wise seruauntes geuyng our maisters houshol de their duetie of meate in due season and also be founde by our Lorde when he cōmeth so doīg happy shall we be and we shall haue our portiō not with the hypocrites where is weepīg ād gnashīg of teeth but with the blessed in the kingdome of the most mightie God which is kyng of kynges and Lorde of Lordes to whom be honour and rule euerlastyng Amen The aunsuuerer The articles of the Sinode haue such cōditions annexed to them that wee nede not feare to subscribe to them againe in the former so that nohing be ordered against the word of god in the latter which be not repugnaunt to the word of god according to these conditiones we praye god that all men may decree and obey orders The examiner But let vs folowe the trueth in loue Ephes 4. and in all thynges growe vp into hym which is the head that is Christ The aunsuuerer It is the thing that we wish to followe the truthe in loue and in all thinges to growe vppe into Christ which is the head and not to grow backeward to Antichrist The examiner Neuerthelesse in that whereunto we are come let vs proceade by one rule Phil. 3. that we may be of one accorde The ausuuerer You shold haue added the wordes goinge before let vs thefore as manie as be perfect be thus minded and yf yow be otherwise minded God shall reueale that same vnto yow yf yow wolde be content that as manie as be perfect continew in the same minde we wolde be glad to proceade by one rule that we may all be of one accorde to the which wee wish yow wolde with vs saye Amen FINIS
seruice not only to estably she sounde doctrine in matters of fayth but also to redresse and ordayne rytes for discipline and publike quiet as in the godly counsells appeareth Nicoene Calcidon and others The aunsuuersr It is well that wee agree in this poyncte that the ministers of godes worde ought not to be condeÌ„nid wee diffar only in this which way they may be brought iÌ„to good estimacioÌ„ wee say that they ar worthy of dobell honor that rule well as the scripture teacheth this though you denie not yet yow appoincte the the retainynge of the prescribed apparell as a garment wherbye the ministers may recouer the dignitie of their forfathers The true honor shoulde de geuen to good gouerment and gotten by it But now experienc teacheth that an asse a dissembling papiste a dronkard a Swerer a Gamester so he receaue your apparell may haue the honor of retaining his lyuing but qui optime prâ—sunt they that rule neuer so well and are comendable in all poinctes that S. Paule requirith in a perfecte good minister for onlye refusinge the apparell are thruste out as men vnworhy of any honor dewe to a minister of Christe Of forfathers wee saye that the Apostolls not Pharises the Apostells not Prelates The Apostells I saye which did not seke dignitie by apparell as these did aâ— our forfathers God his worde bideth vs take hede of the Scribes and Pharises that loue to goe in long robes and to haue salutacions in the maiket and highest seates in the sinagoges and chefest romes in feastes And those thinges which they do doe you not sayth Christ they do all thinges that they may seme to haue reuerence of men And yf it be not lawfull for the disciples to get reuerence by Pharisaicall apparell much less lawfull is it for to get reuerence by papisticall apparell Moreouer yf it be true that you say that the retainyng of these orders was to preserue the trew and faithfull ministers from despighte it is much to be marueled that now when all men do see the contrarie effect followe they are not vtterlie abolished for these ministers that are mâ— made instrumentes to eÌ„force these thinges are coumpted Tirauntes and Persecuters those that refuse to receaue them ar iudged to be rebells and those that receaue them are rekened tourncotes flatteres and waueringe weather Cockes Yf therfore none other thiÌ„ge wear sought but that which yow pretende these thinges ought spedilie to be taken away Touchinge the Sacramentes wee thinke thee institution of them to be perfecte that no honor is to be sought vnto them by mans inuentiones much less by such apparell as they haue bene most dishonored and defaced withall by the Papistes God his worde and Sacramentes in in the Apostells time when all thinges werpuer and nothing corrupt with maÌ„s tradicioÌ„s when simple apparell was vsed in the ministerie were better estemed than now If anie reuerence be gotten it is this that the ignorant people is made beleue that the old Masse and the Communion are all one and so it maintaineth the error of the dignitie of the popish sacrifising prist hode And wher yow saye yow follow the examples of the fathers in Niceane Calcedon counsels you ar not able to proue that they busied theÌ„ selues about suich trifing matters but raither about the electiones of good bishopes and Ministers excommunications of backesliders and correction of other vices The Examiner But in your considerations howe smally you haue regarded your duetie in this common we alth on this maner to make the worlde woÌ„der at your factious wylfulnes before your superiours yf you thynke herin you haue any reade ouer your reasons it is rather tobe lamented and prosecuted vvith teares then to be blased abrode in wordes and vttered by penne Surely it maye be true here Nostalem consuetudinem non habemus nec ecclesiae dei 1 Cor 11. we haue no such custome nor the Churches of god Leauing then to the iudgement of others whether your run not headlong the ready waye to make your selues iustly and the ministerie also euyll spoken of by not seekyng the peace of the Countrey where you dwell and by not obeyng and folowyng Hier 29 but breakyng and forsakyng those variable orders and maners whereby worldly quietnes at the leastis gotten and mayntayned iuit Dei C 19 c. 17. which as S. Augustine sayeth is not the vsage of the Citie of God touchyng maners lawes and ordinaunces whereby the religion of the liuing God is not hurt Leauing I say this and your consideration to the iudgement of others it shall be sufficient at this tyme to weygh the groundes and reasons whiche you vse in refusyng to weare apparell and garmentes not nowe of the Popes Church but of Christes Churche in Englande The Aunsvuerer The name of peace is verie beweifull but then it is trulie beneficiall when the agremeÌ„t with god and his word is the fundation of our peace Yf the thinges in controuersie were nothing els but variable orders and manuers wich petition of principall none of vs will graunte you we might ealselie and wolde gladlye admit your peace and worldlie quyetnesse not whith standing beyng such as they are yf yow wolde suffar vs quietlye to dischar â—ge our duties according to our callinge there should be small contention on our parte and therfor you do vniustlie charge vs whith factions wilfulnes and contempt of superiors whome we know and acknowledg as our Superiors in the lord vnto whom wee haue alwayes bene redie to render our reasones The examiner It shall not be vnnecessary to aduertise the Christian reader that in the declaration there are much paynes bestowed of these discoursours were as very litle needeth to the intent peraduenture other to aduaunce them selues in theyr knowledge of Gods worde or to nip and taunte theyr felowes and betters as vnlearned and fooles For where as fewe or none are ignorant that all thynges should be done to edifie no offences shoulde iustly be geuen and Christian libettie should alwayes be defended such lyke Yet in coÌ„firming of these vndoubted truthes many wordes are spent when as lytle or nothyng is sayd of that which in this cause and many others contayneth the controuersie that is of the Minor or next proposition As whether these orders do edifie do offende or hurt Christian libertie Wherfore thinke not much if diuers sentences of scripture tendyng to stablishe one trueth not denyed at this time be briefely collected and aunswered together For those thinges ought and shal be expended whiche make any thyng at all to the pithe of these matter The aunsvverer Let the Christiane Reader be aduertised how so euar this Examiner now grauntith the Maiors to be vndoubted truthes that before this time he or they of his side wolde not so receue them As this that all order ought to serue to edification they wolde bringe in instans of the stoles and pewes in the Churchis expounding the sayng of S. Paull let
them in worke But because your fay rest colour is order and decencye may it plese yow also to here the censors of diuerse lerned fathers plainelie declaring that this your apparel is neyther orderlie nor comelie first Peter Martir 1. Sam. 14. hath these wordes handling the comon place of the ecclesiasticall lawes Esse tamen opertere aliqua quae faciant ad ordinem decoriÌ„â— docet Paulus ad Corint hic tamen ordo non est situs in magna pompa in vestibus in cantibus in campanarum organorum strepitu sed quae ad modèstiam grauitatem faciant qui remoueat lasciuiam confusionem barbariem Yet Paulto the CorinthiaÌ„s teachiht that soÌ„tiÌ„hgs must be had which serue for order and coÌ„lynes but yet that order is not placid in great poÌ„pe in garmeÌ„ts in singing in the no is of Bells Organes but such as makit to modestie and grauity which remouith wantonnes confusion and barbarusnes Caluin in the 4. boke Cap. 10. 29. diuision of his Inst writith thus Similiter ordinem non constituemus in nugatoriis itâ—is pompis quae nihil habent prater auandiem splendorem sed in ea compositione quaeomnem confusionem barbariem contumaciaÌ„ turbas omnes disciâ—iam tollat Likewise wee will not place order in these triflinge pompes wich haue nothing but a vanishing shewe but in the coÌ„position wich takith away all confusion barbarusnes stubburnes all troble and dissention Thus much for order now for comlynes Docter Rydlie callith them fowlish and to fond for a vice in a playe His felowe docter Tayler callith theÌ„ apish toyes Docter Poynet late bishop of winchest in his admonition to England liknith them to a porters weede of bill in sgate Lib 4 cap 18 〈…〉 29 Calum in his institutions Decorum ergo non uâ—cabimus in quo nihil praeter inane oblectamentum inerit quale exemplum uidemus in illo theatrico apparatu quo utuntur papistae in sacris ubi nihil quam inutilis elegantiae larua luxus sine fructu apparet Therfore wee shall not saye that comlines is wherin shal be nothiÌ„g but vain delectacioÌ„ne such as wee see in the playerlye like apparell which the papistes vse in their seruice where apperith nothing else but an vnprofitable visar of gaines And excesse with out fruit Peter Martyr vpon this texte Omnia ordine c. sed recte intelligenda est ea particula Decenter ne hoc decorum situm putemus in scricis uestimentis aureis argenteis vasis gemmatisque poculis nolarumstrepitu luminarium fulgore haec qui iactitant vt decentia in paralogismum incidunt quem Aristateles secundum quid ad simpliciter vocat decentia haec esse fatemur sed oculis corporis sen sui carnis muÌ„di iudicio que not poti ' abnegare debemus quaÌ„ sequi decorum quod in his requiritur constat mortificatione sanctitate modestia contemptu mundi potissimum edificatione But this worde decently muste be ryghtlie vnderstanded leste wee shoulde thinke that this comlines is placed in silke garmeÌ„tes godlen aÌ„d siluar vesseles cuppes sett wyth stones noyes of Bells and bryghtnes of Candelles These that bragg of these thinges as decent fall into A paralogisme which Arist calleth froÌ„ that which is after a sort to that which is simplie wee graunt that these thinges are decent but to the eies of the bodye to the sens of the flesh and iudgment of the worlde which wee ought raither to denie than to followe the comlines that is in these wordes required staÌ„dith in mortification hollines modestie contempt of the world and moste cheslie in aedification Petir Martir also vpon the 1. of the Iudges fol. 33. speking of popish apparell saith procedit sacrificulus ornatus prodigiosis uestibus The prest comith forth deked with monstrous apparell aÌ„d in the same place and leaffe Interponuntur etiam quidam imo permulti ritus peregrinisigna ridicula gestus quodammodo flulti uestes inusitatae Ther are added also Certayne yea many strang Ceremonies sygnes to be laughed at certayne gestures in a maner foolish and disguised garments Yf therfore fooles bables apish toyes porters wedes disguised garmentes playerlike apparell moÌ„strous apparell be indifferent orderly and comlie or els if in Church matters wee must seke to our bodilie eyes the sensis of the flesh and the iudgmeÌ„t of the world then may you goe forward with your conclusion but if not our disobeydiens as it pleaseth yow to terme yt shall not be the ouerthrowe of thousandes but the confirmacion and strenghning of multitudes in godes trueth As for enforming the people otherwise then wee haue taught them vnles yow be albe to shew vs that wee haue informed them with vntruthes your request cannot be eselye ybtained nor counsaell redylie followed to your prayer we say nothing but Amen sobeit The examiner Secondly You vvoulde haue vs thynke that the receyuyng of these orders doth not edisie because as you imagine the obstinate papiste shal be confirmed in his opinion This thyng is easyer and oftener saide of you then proued as yet For truelly this may be a meanes rather to wynne the aduersaries from theyr errours when they see vs without superstition or any necessitie turne those thinges to good vses which they fowly abused and heare vs condemne in open preachyng that which they set so much by And vppon this cause it seemeth the Apostles vsed long after Christes ascention the Ceremonies of Moises 1. Cor. 9. and that in the Temple to wynne to Christ the obstinate Iewes Note this place of â—ed eccl hist lib. 1 cap. 30. and expendle his reasons The histories Ecclesiasticall also haue diuers experiences howe much our auncient fathers increased Christes Churche by such godly pollicie Hence it was that they plucked not downe all the Iewy she Sinagoges and Heathnyshe Temples but turned them to the seruice of God that they altered theyr feast dayes Epi 154 that they chaunged their rites to Godlye purposes And that this myght be done it appeareth by S. Augustine to Publicola saying Cum uero ista uel in honorem ueri dei conuertuntur hoe de illis fit quod de ipsis hominibus cum ex sacrilegis et impiis in ueram religionem mutantur when these thinges be conuerted vnto the honour of the true God it is of them as it is of the parties them selues whan they were before committyng sacrilege and impietie nowe they be conuerted into true religious persons These fathers thought not theÌ„ selues in suche thynges vnder the commaundement which God gaue his people to practise in the land of Canaan therfore durst not with an heroical spirite destroy all that the Heathen had inuented before Dedoctr Christ lib 2 cap. 40. But dyd Vindicare tanquam ab iniustis possessoribus in usunt suum clarme to theyr owne ryght vse as it were from the iniust â—ossessours such like thinges as you talke of â—n this
withdrawe God knoweth and will iudge verily this your declaration in that day 1. Cor. 4 will not be your defence when the Lorde shall lyghten thinges that are hid in darkenes and make the counsell of the hartes manifest Also we all nkowe or ought to knowe in what cases we shoulde put in vse that saying of S. Peter ¶ we ought more to obey God then man And therefore we stike not in these thinges to shewe gratefull hartes as of those men who acknowledge them selues by the meanes of suche a Prince deliuered out of those miserable cases We are affraide to striue contentiouslie about the varietie of kinge Salomons wyues garment thinges outwarde lest we should hurt her inward beautie as S. Ad cass Augustine thinketh to become seruauntes of the Churche a Queene so pearelesse The Aunsuuerer We must all apere before the iudgemēt seat of Christ were the thoughtes of our hattes shall eyther accuse or excuse vs wher howsoeuer our Declaration defend vs. Your examination shall not rondenne vs. Whether the Prince of pleasure cequire these thinges or no yow confesse that yee receiue them to pleasure the Prince ffor your wordes are that yow sticke not in these thynges to shew gratefull hattes to the Prince And also wee a◠at the Princes commaundement bodye and godes whith thankefulnes our obediēce to god and his worde all wayes reserued As for sainct Augustines allegorie wee haue litle to do whith it but if yow like it then must yow lyke ii thinges in that place fyrst that it maye please you to suffer the Queens garment to be chāgeable ād not to rent the cote of Christ whith contention for lacke of conformitie secondlye that you will consider that there is no comelines of the Chirch in outward shewes for as he saythe Omnis pulchritudo filiae regis intrinsecus all the bewtie of the Kinges Dawghter is inward The examiner The bondes and limittes whiche you appoint for true obedrence of subiectes to their princes are very narrowe daungerous For oftentimes the Subiect ought to obey in thinges not forbidden by God and commanded by lawe though he do not plainly perceiue either for what good end they are required of to what ende they will come as daily experience in common wealthes do shewe But belike you will haue euery man to vnderstande as much as the Prince and councell knoweth and intendeth or els you will set the subiect at his choyse Moreouer here is perilous auctoritie graunted to euery subiect to determine vpon the Princes lawes proclamations and ordinaunces that when they shall see them many tymes otheruayes then they are in deede vnprofitable then shall they nay they must not do and accomplishe the same If you restrayne this to matters Ecclefiasticall you helpe your selues neuer awhyt For euery Minister there hath not full power to make and abrogate Ecclesiasticall lawes nor yet knowledge well to iudge of them This is therfore scarse to geue example of true obedience to God and man For in not obeing man in such thinges indifferent whose vse you can not shew nowe to be wicked you obey not God whose minister man is But I omit here longer to recite your wrytyng in this point for good considerations Which I thinke your selfe better aduised hereafter wyll expende The aunsuuerer We wyll giue as large lymites of obeydience as the scripture giuith And so far there is no daunger wee graunt that often times the subiect ought to obey when the Prince do the euill to commaund but this stretchith no farther then temporall matters As yf the Prīce exact an vnresōnable tribute the subiect is bound to paye it As for matters ecclesiasticall euerie minister though he make no lawes yet oug to haue knowledge that he may iudge of lawes made wheather they stand wyth gods word or no. And thus thynketh Peter Martyr as is before alleadged making a distinction betwixt Ecclesiasticall and polliticall lawes Yow thynke it daungerous for subiectes to restraine the Princes authorities to boūdes and lymites we thinke it as dangerous toin large the Princes authoritie beyond the bōdes and lymites of holy scripture but yow omit vpon cōsiderations to reherse more of our writing You neuer omit vpon anie good consideration to charge vs wyth false and vncharitable suspicions which we wold wysh yow had vttered playnelie The examiner The fifth and last reason generall that moueth you vtterly to refuse the receyuing of apparell yet continued and declared is the consideration of Christian libertie whiche thereby you thinke shoulde be manifestly infringed and so forth And here you triumphe in your textes how Christ hath deliuered vs from the bondages of ceremonies and law As touching Christian libertie the faythfull man must knowe that it is altogether spirituall and parteyneth only to the conscience whiche must be pacified cōcerning the lawe of God and nerte well stayed in thinges indifferent This libertie consisteth herein not to be holden tyed with any religion in externall things but that yt may be lawfull before God to vse them or omit them as occasion shall serue This perswasion a godly man must alwayes retaine kepe safe in his minde but when he commeth to thee vse action of them then must he moderate and qualifie his libertie according to charitie towarde his neighbour and obedience to his Prince So though by this knowledge his minde and conscience is alwayes free Caluin yee his doing is as it were tied or limitted by lawe or loue Hereupon a wel learned man saith ¶ It is sufficient in Christian libertie to vnderstand that before God it is no matter what meates or what clothes thou vse Pet Mar◠though in thy whole life thou neuer eat flesh and though alwayes after thou vse in apparell one colour and fassion So hath another Quod ad sensum et doctrinam semper profiten dum adiaphora esse libera non quo ad vsurpationem A Christian man must alwayes professe that indifferent thinges as muche as appertaineth to vnderstanding and doctrine are free and not touching their vse Nowe then forasmuch as these garmentes are among thinges indifferent we may easilye knowe how they are free as parteining to our conscience and yet notwithstandyug we may be obedient to lawes without impairing of Christes libertie But to the weighing of your reasons The aunsuuerer Sauing our former protestation concerning the indifferentie of these matters wee allowe well the sentencis of Caluin and Martir but your applying of them neuer a dealle You misconster D. Martir and cleane wrest a wrie his distinctiō he meanith that such thinges are free in opiniō though thouching the actiō and vse they ought to serue to charitable aedification you contrarie wise not onelye vse thē frelye and franckelie your selues but constraine others to do the like wyth out respecte of charitie or aedification Charitie is the rule in scripture for the vse of indifferent thinges Against charitie no Prince hath auctoritie to make lawes The