Selected quad for the lemma: judgement_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
judgement_n	church_n	member_n	visible_a	2,107	5	9.5140	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B11734	The vnreasonablenesse of the separation Made apparant, by an examination of Mr. Iohnsons pretended reasons, published an. 1608. Wherby hee laboureth to iustifie his schisme from the church assemblies of England.	Bradshaw, William, 1571-1618.; Ames, William, 1576-1633. Manudicition for Mr. Robinson.	1614 (1614)	STC 3532; ESTC S113892	55,662	116

Therfore they are not true Pastors and Teachers Answere Ther are 4. Termes in this Syllogisme The grosse Sophisterye wherof may appeare by the Explanation therof in others wordes True Pastors Teachers may not viz. by Gods lawe take vpon them Cyvill offices The Ministers of England may viz. by Mans lawe take vpon them Cyvill offices Therfore they are not true Pastors and Teachers This is the effect of his Argument who is so blind but hee may see the fallacie therof And it is as though we should reason in the like manner against their owne Ministery thus True Pastors Teachers may not bee Drunckards Anabaptists Familists The Ministers of the Seperation at Amsterdam may be Drunckards Anabaptists Familists Therfore they are not true Pastors and Teachers This Assumption is as true as the former for the same kinde of Authoritie that permits our Ministers to bee Cyvill Magistrats doth permit them to bee Drunckards c. The goverment vnder which they liue permitteth the one to more then our state doeth the other But I answer more particulerly 1. That by the same lawe that our Ministers may take vpon them Cyvill Magistracie Any true Pastors and Teachers may take vpon them the same Authority and by the same lawe that true Pastors and Teachers may not take Cyvill Authoritye vpon them our Ministers may not take the same vpon them 2. All our Ministers may not noe by the lawes of our State take vpon them Cyvill Authority But such only as are called specially therto by the fauours grace of the Cyvill Magistrate not as they are Prelats Priests or Deacons or by vertue of those functions but in respect of other qualifications Nether are the forced by any law to adjoyne any such Authoritie to their Ministery but permitted only But what if by the lawes of men Ministers might be Murtherers Adulterers Theeus c. should theis lawes chaunge the nature of their Ministery what of their Ministery that denye vnto themselues that lycence would it not rather the more justify their Ministery when in Conscience of Gods law they shall for beare that which flesh and blood and humaine laws would permit vnto them 3. Suppose not onely that it is vnlawfull for any true Pastors and Teachers to bee Cyvill Magistrats but that also by our lawes all our Ministers were forced therunto and that by vertue of their Ministery will it thence follow that for this cause they are not true Pastors and Teachers May not true Pastors and Teachers in their weacknesse ignorance and infirmities the laws of the State requiring the same admitt of some kind of office or Authoritie for bidden them but they must needs ther vpon cease to bee true Pastors Teachers doth the admitting of every vnlawfull thing chaunge the nature of the Ministery and make it either noe Ministery or a Ministery of an other kinde Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Christian Pastors and Teachers The. 5. Arg. standeth by the word and ordinance of Christ so as all Churches vnder Heaven are bound to receaue and submit thervnto But the Prelacie Preesthood and Deaconry of the Ghurch of England staundeth only by the Authoritie and Law of man soe as other Churches els wher nether are nor neede to bee subjecte thervnto which euen themselues of all sorts haue acknowledged for which see Whitgifts defence in the Preface The Answer to the Abstraucte pag. 58. The Admonition to the Parlement The defence of the Godly Ministers the demonstration Therfore it is not the Ministery of Christian Pastors and Teachers Answere I deny the Assumption The Ministery of our Church Assemblies of England whether of Prelates Priests or Deacons or by what other names soeuer they be called for the substance therof standeth by the word and ordinance of Christ and not onely by the Authority and law of man And all other true Churches are and ought to be subject to the same kinde of Ministery and to noe other that shall in any Essentiall point of Ministery differ from ours If any Perticuler Parsons amongst vs haue bene soe vnaduised to graunt the Assumption let them answer for themselues Hee hath noe more reason to binde vs to their opinions then wee to binde him vnto whatsoeuer his predecessours Browne Barrowe and Greenwood haue held before him Concerning some of the particulers Doctor Whitgifts words are theis The substance and nature of Gouerment must indeed by taken out of the word of God and consisteth in theis parts That the word be truely taught the Sacraments rightly administred virtue furthered vice repressed and the Church kept in quietnesse and order The offices of the Church wherby this Gouerment is wrought bee not namely and particulerly expressed in the Scripture but in some points left to the discretion and libertie of the Church to be disposed according to the State of times Places and persons The Author of the Answer to the Abstract in the place aledged saith That it cannot be proued that any set and exacte particuler forme of discipline is recomended vnto vs in the word of God Now are either of theis to affirme That the Ministery of our Church Assemblies staundeth only by the lawes and Authoritie of Man Hath M. Iohnson any shame left in his face that thus shamefully abuseth the names of learned and reuerent men soe directly contrary to their words and meaning Is ther not cause to suspect that the other Authors are in like manner abused and that for the better hideing of his fraude hee forbeareth to quote any particuler places Being therfore convinced of depravation in the places particularly quoted wee may presume that if the other places had bene more pertinent hee would haue giuen vs some particuler directions also for the finding of them And the rather for that hee cannot be ignorant that those whom specially hee fighteth against in theis Argumēts doe rely vpon the judgement of the Authours following more then of the former Fr. Iohn The offices of Pastors The 6. Arg. and Teachers which Christ hath appointed are such as they which haue them must bee members of a true visible Church and bound to one perticuler Congregation for the Ministery and Gouerment therof But the Offices of the Prelats Priests and Deacons of the Church of Englande are such as they which haue them need not bee neither in their State can bee members of a true visible Church but of a fals neither are bound to one perticuler Congregation for the Ministery and Gouerment therof but the Prelates are our whoele Prouinces and Diocesses other inferior Priests may haue in that State pluralitie of benefices and Ecclesiall Cures c. which none can deny Therfore they are not the Pastors Teachers that Christ hath appointed Answere Though some parts of the Proposition bee disputable Yet because other besids the Seperation doe hould the whol for truth I will leaue it in medio The Assumption is falce especially if it bee vnderstoode as it ought to bee of the

same kinde and therfore well may hee passe by this point This is but a peece of his simple thetoricke carelesly to seeme to passe by that which hee cannot proue For how many Errors can hee name or number that hee is able to justify to be taught in the Ministery of our Church Assemblies what one truth of Religion can hee name that is not or hath not bene when just occasion hath bene offred taught by some of our Ministers I am not ignorant that in his treatises against M. A. H. and M. H. I. hee mustreth a whole troup of pretended Errors but suppose them to bee so many destinct Errors how doth hee proue they are taught in our Ministery or that they are required by law to bee taught Ther is indeed a Conformitie and Subscription required to some of them and a Canon that requires that the late Canons bee reade in Churches some times in the yeare as also that the booke of Articles bee read at the first entrance vpon an Ecclesiastical Church with a testification of assent vnto it But is this Ministerially to teach the Errors contained in the said bookes May not a man in the weacknesse of his judgement and in infirmitie at his first entrance into a calling conforme and subscribe vnto some things not so warantable and true and yet not teach them for truths yea may hee not for all that teach doctrin in it selfe directly countrary to those vntruths yea and yet satisfie also the minde of the law which being humaine and therfore not alwaies perfect may commaunde that very truth to bee taught which being thorowly followed will destroy some vntruths which the same law also requires Further it is one thing to reade the Canons to the people therby to declare vnto them what is required at their hands by their Governors another thing to teach and justifie the Errors countained in them and to testifie an assent vnto some Errors is not Ministerially to instruct the people in those Errors 2. Though it bee noe nue thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in divers things bring the truth with them Yet this is a nue thing and never hard of before That the Ministers of Antichrist should teach the wholl truth of Christ Iesus for the substāce therof That they should oppose directly and zealously against the maine and foundamentall doctrins of Antichrist That they should professe him to bee Antichrist and that man of sinne and to the sheeding of their blood should exercise their Ministery against Antichrist and his kingdome protesting against him and his Service were it not nue straunge that a man should bee counted a true Subject vnto a Prince then when hee doth openly protest against him Counting him a vsurping Tirant and imploying all the wit power and strength hee hath against him such subjects of Antichrist are our Ministers or by the lawes such they ought to bee Could hee bee said to bee a Minister of Christ that yealding to some externall kites and professing some doctrines of Christian faith doth not withstanding directly openly and professedly renounce Christ and his Seruice and professe himselfe to bee an enemie to him and his Kingdome If it hould not in the one it is not both a nue and strang thing that it should hould in the other 3. M. Iohnson out of his knowledge must teach vs how Sathan can be said by teaching the truth to vtter his owne Ministery or worship or how a Sathanicall Ministery can be vttered when in and by the Ministery nothing but the truth of Christ is administred what is the Ministery of Sathan but the Ministery of Error how can the Ministery of Error bee vttered by teaching the Truth or how can a Ministery be said to be vttered by a truth when it is the Ministery it selfe that vttereth the truth Surely noe more then a Marchandize can bee said to bee vttered by selling of wares and were it not a wonder if a man should vtter his bad Marchandice by selling good sound wares Sathan and Antichrist indeed together with some truths seeke to vtter much falshoode which otherwise they knowe would not be receaued And many of our Ministers are content to yeald to some things which they judge not so counvenient if it did otherwise some good to the State to the end they may vtter the truth But that like Antichrist and Sathan our Ministers should propound this vnto themselues to teach some truths to this end that they might therby vtter falshood and lies fals Ministeries worships is a Malitious imputation and can never bee justified Obj. Beza saith Though Antichrist teach the truth which sometimes hee doth to the end hee may more easily seduce to beleeue his lies yet wee are to stoppe our eares against him least vnder his pretence wee bee deceaved by him pag. 76. Ans Well but it is yet to proue That our Ministers are Antichrists and that they teach the truth to any such wicked intent the contrary is manifest when many of them in regard of the times are countent to yealde to some colourable vntruths that they might therby purchase libertie vnto themselues to aduance the truth of Christ They yeald to some things in appearance Antichristian that they might with more libertie fight against Antichrist Obj. Who knoweth not that Antichrist and his Ministers are hipocriticall frends to Christ vnder the name of Christ fighting against him Ans But who knoweth not that our Ministers if they bee such as our lawes require them to bee are sworn enemies to Antichrist and in the name of Christ and vnder some of Antichrists owne Rites doe fight against him and resist him vnto blood And who knoweth not that many of them haue died for Christ at the foot of Antichrist THE SIXT ARGVMENT IF the present Ministery of the Church of Englande bee a strange Ministery then is it not lawfull in the worship of God to heare it or haue any Spirituall communion therwith But such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England Therfore it is not lawfull in the worship of God to heare it or haue any Spirituall Communion therwith The Assumption is manifest for a strange Ministery is that which is not by the law ordained and giuen for that worke as themselues here to fore haue published and as is proued in the first Reason Answere This Reason differreth not in substance from divers of the former for what is it to bee a strang Ministery but to be a Ministery that is not set by Christ in his Church which is his 1. Reason But to bee a Ministery which deriveth not the power and function from Christ which is his 4. Reason But to bee a Ministery that worketh vpon mens consciences by virtue of a fals Spirituall calling which is his 5. Reason Might hee not with as greate facility out of this method of reasoning haue brought forth 7000. Reasons as theis seaven But how doth hee proue the Assumption of his reason